In heaven we shall appear, not in armour, but in robes of glory. But here these are to be worn night and day; we must walk, work, and sleep in them, or else we are not true soldiers of Christ.
- William Gurnall -
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151 comments:
mwuhahahaha
Two! (Thanks for softly covering my back Alesia.)
Three---Good to be back!
Thats a neat quote Alesia.
Joel has a new post up also.
"ROCKET HITS ISRAEL DURING PRESIDENTIAL VISIT."
Pray for president Bush and Israel during these next two days!
-Jec
Shalom, all! Given the conversation we were having a couple of months ago, I have to share this with you. It's a Photoshopped picture of Putin -- read the caption.
<><
JIM Carroll, I like your name there
Muzhik Muzhik is online now
Regular Member" I recognized you by the fish!
Hi everyone! Been lazy lately and very bizzy to boot with Hubby's health problems. Anyway, you young ones are hard to keep up with but i would invite you all to help me clean up my Email mess again.
I found some very interesting video topics on Breitbart's web site about China's earthquake and also, some Youtube remarks from a preacher about The Trinity from Hell. Now that last one is a real topic charger.
I love Mr. Hyde's new picture and would love to just sit and look at that scene all the time. Reminds me of sunsets in the Canary Islands a few years ago. Everything turned to gold and it was so peaceful and sweet.
You all take care and don't forget to pray for Israel.
Grany
Shalom, all! I've been talking to my ex-wife about disaster preparedness lately, and had been talking to her about what to do in an earthquake. (They still get occasional aftershocks from that Mt. Carmel, IL earthquake.) She just updated her earthquake page on her web site, which has some information you might be interested in. This site is the "How to Survive an Earthquake" page from the Center for Earthquake Research and Information at the University of Memphis.
Glad to see you back, Grany!
<><
Grany, good to have you back! You too, JccHick23!
Alesia, I loved that post. I had never heard of William Gurnall before.
Hi Folks...
Jcchick nice to see your name and Grany its really nice to see your post.
Gee, Jim I guess your ex-wife is really into earthquakes!
Yes, lets pray for President Bush, Israel and the rest of the leaders and people there, and everywhere.
Yes, Alesia, that is a sweet quote from Gurnall (who I never heard of before either).
On that David Wilkerson video I posted he was into the "Watchman" mode (As he says he is not a prophet but a Watchnman-probably like most of us here) and predicted what is going to come upon the US and World in the near future.
Basically everything we've been talking about here.
He was also explaining what the "Proof" is of being Holy Spirit filled Christain.And the proof was not tongues or healings or other gifts.
If your interested watch it.
I was Holy Spirit filled before I ever spoke in tongues like I had mentioned before.I'll post a little more on this topic later.
Lisa
Here is the link to Ahmadinejad's latest spout off:
Israels Dying
I said this in the previous thread of comments:
"I was just trying to help out those who may have felt like they need to speak or pray in tongues to live a vital Christian life. Our power does come from the Holy Spirit but I believe walking by the Spirit is directly related to one's walk in the Word."
What I meant to say was that I was trying to help out those who may feel like they are missing out on God's power in their lives if they did not speak or pray in tongues.
At the moment of salvation we've been granted all things pertaining to life and godliness. I can see how if you are taught that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is subsequent to salvation, is necessary to live a vital Christian life, and is evidenced by speaking in tongues, you might get caught up in seeking an experience that is not necessary. And when it doesn't happen it could lead to frustration or feeling as if you are missing out on something.
The editor of the creation-centered Answers Research Journal has intercepted the first attempt at discrediting and ridiculing the journal: a fake geology paper that was submitted as part of an informal online contest.
Overcomer,
I agree w/that.
I had spoke w/the pastor who leads up the "Transformation" group at Church-which is the one I mentioned that teaches about Spritual gifts.
He did mention the reaction of some people when they got to the discussion of that gift- some suprised-some leary-and he mentioned some people had been trying for some time.
I didn't expound on his comment but I might ask him about it. I was wondering about the people who had been trying.
If tongues had anything to do w/salvation then the road leading to everlasting life would not be narrow it would be a pin hole.
Donna, Shalom! No, my ex isn't really into earthquakes. She's just obsessive. If you go to the root page of that site (http://www.ktcat.net/) you'll find her "Link Collection." When she gets interested in a subject, she will become obsessive and try to find out all she can about that subject. She's channeled this into this web page. (It was less expensive than buying filing cabinets to hold the articles she kept clipping.) The "Earthquake" page is actually not as extensive as most of her other web pages.
Try this: go to http://www.ktcat.net/, find "Japan", and click on the link. Gaze in awe at the wealth of information, all neatly organized. Next, go to the top of the Japan page, and click on "Bentos", then click on "Photos of our Bentos" Finally, go back to the "Japan and Japanese Culture" page and click on the "Cat Haiku" link. My favorite one of those is:
Cats meow out of angst
"Thumbs! If only we had thumbs!
We could break so much"
<><
Hey Jim,
Actually, cats do have thumbs. I clip 4 every weekend, else the furniture would be in further tatters ;-)
Blessings,
Jen
I have never sought for the gift of tongues and I do not have the desire to. I believe they were given at a specific time to spread the gospel and were used under specific conditions. Tongues should be interpreted and I believe they should be a foreign language unknown to the one speaking it to share the gospel. And that is all I will say about my position. =)
I love digging into the Word, coming face to face with the glory of the Lord. That is what I get jazzed about! And I enjoy sharing what I've learned to others.
I agree, Overcomer!
And if I might add, we as Christians should much more seek to exhibit the fruit of the Spirit...love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.
Vicki
Jen, I am trying to catch up with the comments from the last post at the cave and I read yours about Kenneth E. Hagin and you asked the question about trusting his work. Jen, I have grown greatly from the teaching of this man and there are great men of God who have lived out their earthly life truly serving God faithfully and fruitfully because of him.
I knew him personally and he was the epitome of 7/24 X 365 days a year for all of his ministry years. He had such a humble Spirit and the Godly love of this man is still producing wonderful fruit. His books are such that they have a special place in my home and I have shared them freely for all of these years. One that I think you should read is Understanding The Anointing. You see, the Holy Spirit's infilling accomplishes much in your life as a Christian and one of the most wonderful ones is the anointing it developes in you as a servant of God. The Word of God tells us that it is the anointing that destroys the yoke of bondage. The anointing was only given to priests, kings (David but Saul had it at one time and lost it), prophets and others who would serve God's purposes for Israel. Then when Jesus breathed on the disciples and anointed them to carry on after he was gone back to the throne of God, he anointed them with authority and power to do the work they were to undertake.
The anointing is what is really the important purpose of the infilling. You hear it in David Wilkerson's sermons, you see it in how Billy Graham lived his life and you witness it everyday in your life as you follow the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Before Jesus extended the gospel to Gentiles (that is us)this was not possible.
But the thing I want to remind all of you about is that no man is to assume he is more powerful or better or exalted because God has poured out his Holy Spirit on them. In fact, that is one of the first signs that there is not a true manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Pride always comes before a fall and God cannot stand pride! Jezebel had a prideful spirit along with her Baal worship and we are to avoid all such behavior.
Something else that you need to know is that our behavior can cause the Holy Spirit to be grieved and then we are working and moving in our own power and not his.
So, yes, I trust Kenneth E. Hagin's teaching and there are so many books that he has authored covering subjects that only you can decide where you need the teaching. He has another one on the Name of Jesus and also, The Authority of the Believer which everyone needs to know.
If I were to choose in a life or death situation, which man of God I would listen to, it would be Kenneth E. Hagin without a doubt. I knew him and saw him live out what he taught but most importantly, he lived out what the Word of God said and did it everyday in everyway.
Grany
It's one thing to not want,desire or have received the gift of tongues and/or any other Spritual gifts for Ministry and yet another to be ignorant of the scriptures.
When I thought about topic when I was against it - I realized I was against it without any study on my part of the Scriptures. So I questioned it but did not take a stand.
Now I will take a stand because I know what the Scriptures say.But I'm not going to argue with anyone because unless a person is open to possibly admitting they are a little closed minded about this and want to dig into scripture with an open mind w/the guards down- it's completely pointless.
Therefore I will let bygones be bygones. If anyone changes their mind you know who to ask.
On another note:
As we are gently being transformed into the image of Christ we will exhibit the fruits of the spirit.
If we are in full submission to God.The Holy Sprit convicts us and works within us to accomplish this task. This is not something we can do by our own will.If I tried I would end in complete failure.
The best I could hope for is to be a "nice" person in the world. An utter abomination to the Lord.
As I'm sure of this your already aware.
So what about getting back to some "End Times" info? We rarely debate over that topic.
Lisa
Hi everyone,
Just wanted to let you know I'm working on a rather long post about tongues (OK - everyone groan) that I'll post sometime tomorrow. I've already spent 3 hours on it and don't feel I've got it right, so I'm going to sleep and pray on it and will hopefully have it ready sometime tomorrow. It's mostly directed to those who don't understand why some of us (I'm calling us "tongues for all" cavers in the post) believe as we do. It doesn't rehash the Scriptures which have been offered over the last many days, but rather gives a word-picture that will hopefully clarify "why".
I'm not a confrontational person by nature, so if it is going to cause undue upheaval, I'll post it at my own blog with a link here. However, for the sake of fellowship amongst us, I hope everyone will take a look at it and digest what I'm trying to say.
Blessings,
Jen
PS. Grany - thanks so much for your response. I'll work that over tomorrow.
And Donna, I haven't forgotten the article I mentioned. I found it, but haven't had time to type it up yet.
PS. Forgot to thank John, too!
OK End Times,
I'm back on the Revival Kick.
I know some of you think this guy is fine since some pastors you trust went to one of his revivals but please-I just have a really bad feeling about this.
Update Andrew Storm Article
If even 1/2 of what he says is true-this is bad news!!!!
Why would some of our fellow cave brothren have such a bad reaction watching that video? Should this be dismissed as folly? We should ingnore the prompting of the Holy Spirit and call it Paranoia?
Have you studied any of the New Age teachings? I have and it's very similar to what is going on at this Revival.
Unless you can tell me Todd really has straightend up. No more Gold Dust, No more 3rd Heaven, No more Angel feathers, No more having people run on stage and shove money into his pockets, No more Emma.
I really wish I could believe this was a Revival from the Almighty God.
I'll be keeping my eyes on this one. If this is not from God we are in some kind of serious End Times situation.
At least we can as a body of believers collectively keep this concern up in prayer and see what happens.
Lisa
I would add that I mostly agree with Kathy's position of tongues except I am open on the whole are they active now thing. the best explanation I've seen yet comes from Chuck Smith Here
welcome back Chick and welcome Jim2.
Grany good to see your name back in blue.
Jim C LOVED the haiku on cats.
it's been a really long taxing day so I'm off to bed
Kathy (overcomer) (and Alesia..)
(Disclaimer: I am not trying to cause confusion or dissension concerning the topic of the baptism of Holy Spirit or about tongues, but I do feel that it is incumbent upon us all to discover what the Word says on the topic.
Note: apologies to all, this is a bit long, but please take the time to read it all - thanks)
I commend you Kathy (sincerely) for your desire to study and understand the Word of God.
However, I am confused by your (Kathy's) logic concerning the Baptism of Holy Spirit (complete with speaking in tongues) and the New Birth being one and the same.
Let me try to explain.
If, as some say, the event in Acts 2, when the Holy Spirit was poured out on the first disciples, and they spoke with tongues, also corresponds with being "born again", then, because God is not a respecter of persons (i.e. what He does for one, He must do for all), and if this account is supposed to show us, today, that this is what should happen when we too are "born again", then by that definition, most people who call themselves Christian are not!! Before you get all upset, please bear with my continuing argument.
The account in Acts 10, when the Gentiles first received the Gospel, also explicitly says that when they had received the gospel from Peter, they all believed and were then filled with Holy Spirit and spoke in other tongues. The account here is VERY clear that Peter and his 6 companions knew that the Gentiles had received the baptism of Holy Spirit because they spoke in tongues.
Again, making the assumption that being "born-again" and receiving the Baptism of Holy Spirit are one and the same, the pattern clearly would be that if we were "born again" by and through what the Bible terms the Baptism of Holy Spirit, this should be evident to anyone watching, because we too would speak in tongues.
On this basis, these two accounts clearly would seem, based on the above assumption, to establish the biblical pattern for what to expect when we are "born again".
However, since in our experiences today, and I believe you would at least agree with me on this, it does not usually happen like this, our understanding and interpretation of what the Word says MUST be incomplete... or even incorrect.
Romans 10:9-10 says that in order to be saved = "born-again", ALL that is required of us is that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
This is simple, very straightforward, and easily understood. There is no mention of "speaking in tongues". So, either our understanding is incomplete concerning what the Baptism of Holy Spirit actually means, or we are all not "born-again" if we do not "speak in other tongues", as some would (and do) actually teach (I AM NOT ADVOCATING THIS POSITION - I am playing devil's advocate).
Since this is obviously the NOT the case, we must dig deeper.
We need to see where the first disciples became "born again". This must have happened at some prior time to the events in Acts 2.
Fortunately, the Bible tells us.
On the day that Jesus rose from the dead, after He had ascended to His Father, he returned to earth and met with the disciples, who at that time were in hiding in the Upper Room.
You will find, upon studying the scriptures, that in spite of the women (Mary Magdalene in particular, Salome, and Mary the mother of James/Joses - I personally think that this other "Mary" mentioned in the Gospel accounts was in fact Jesus' birth mother, since He had brothers named James and Joses) telling the disciples that Jesus was risen from the dead, they refused to believe their eye witness account of the Resurrection, for which Jesus subsequently rebuked them for their lack of faith and unbelief.
John's account clearly says that at this time, in actuality at the end of that very same day, Jesus came amongst them and "breathed" on them and said to them "Receive the Holy Spirit". [John 20:22] At this point in time, the disciple MUST have been "born-again", since Jesus had clearly told them that no one could enter the Kingdom of God unless they had been "born again" of the Spirit. This event mirrors what happened in the Garden of Eden, when God "breathed" His Spirit into Adam, and he became a speaking, living, spirit being. (Side note; when Adam sinned, his spirit died; therefore, Jesus had to breath on the disciples to impart new life to their dead spirits, so that they could become part of God's family again - i.e. they were, at this moment, "born again" into the Kingdom of Heaven, just as Jesus had said would have to happen in John 3, during His conversation with Nicodemus).
Going back to the Gospel accounts, it is recorded that some 40 days later, just before Jesus' ascension, He instructs the disciples to remain in Jerusalem until they receive "power from on high", or as Luke puts it, until they had received the "promise of the Father and had been "endured with power from on high. [Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4]. Since the disciples had already "received the Holy Spirit" the same day that Jesus rose from the dead, you have to ask what is this "promise of the Father" that results in being "endued with power from on high". Given the time frame, they obviously cannot be the same.
Let us see what Scripture has to say about this "promise of the Father". In Acts 1:5 Jesus calls this the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and said it would come UPON them. Now, since they were already "born-again", since Jesus had "breathed" Holy Spirit INTO them some 40 days before, these are clearly NOT the same event. It is important to note the distinction between INTO and UPON to fully grasp what is actually happening.
Furthermore, in Acts 3:33, Peter confirms that the "promise of the Father' is the outpouring of Holy Spirit in power with the evidence of speaking in tongues, upon the believers, since that is what everyone in Jerusalem saw and heard (according to Acts 2:5-13):
33 “Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He [Jesus] poured out this [the Holy Spirit] which you now see and hear.
If you look at what John has to say about the coming of the Holy Spirit, you see that:
(1) Holy Spirit was going to be sent by the Father,
(2) He could only be sent AFTER Jesus had returned to Heaven, to sit at God's right hand,
(3) It would be to our advantage that Holy Spirit came,
(4) He would testify of Jesus, along with us,
(5) He would be our Helper, Comforter, Advocate, Counselor, Intercessor, Strengthener, Standby who comes along side of us
(6) He would lead us into all Truth,
(7) He will tell us of things to come
Now, according to Genesis 1:1-2, the Holy Spirit has been here on earth since the world was created. So, He was already on here earth during Jesus' ministry, so obviously, Jesus is talking about a different manifestation of Holy Spirit's work and ministry, that relates specifically to the ongoing work and ministry of His Body the Church, once He had gone away to Heaven.
Just to make sure we get this, Luke records that the command to remain in Jerusalem until they received the Promise is given to the disciples more than 40 days AFTER they had already received Holy Spirit WITHIN themselves, just before Jesus ascended again to Heaven, to sit at the right hand of the Father - Acts 1:8.
Then, in Acts 2:1-4, we see the promised outpouring of the Holy Spirit, with power, on the disciples - all 120 of them, together with the manifestation of the gift of tongues, as the Spirit gave then utterance (i.e. the Holy Spirit gave them the words - utterances - to say, and the disciples spoke them out, using their tongues and mouths - in other words they exercised their ability to speak, and spoke out the words that Holy Spirit placed in their spirits - Holy Spirit did not, as some teach, take them over, override their free wills, and cause them to speak in ecstatic languages).
Clearly, Scripture identifies the process of being "born again" as a separate experience from receiving the "Baptism of Holy Spirit".
I have given two examples from the Scriptures where a group of people were first "born again", and then subsequently received the "Baptism of Holy Spirit", in both cases with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. Now, Scripture says that we need two or more witnesses to confirm something in the Word. In order to ensure we have received a proper understanding of these matters, let us look at one more, specific example, where a person was "born again" and then, a few days later received the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in tongues (although in the account this latter fact is not specifically mentioned, but the person involved makes a statement later on that he had received the gift of speaking in tongues).
Go with me to Acts 9:1-19. Here is the account of Saul/Paul's conversion and subsequent receiving (infilling) of the Holy Spirit. Now, in v5, you see Saul already acknowledging that the person speaking to him was worthy of obedience and submission, because he called what at this point in time is just an unknown voice, "Lord". Then Jesus reveals to Saul that He is Jesus, and that Saul's activities against the Church are a direct persecution of Jesus. In v6 Saul acknowledges that what Jesus is saying is Truth, thereby admitting that Jesus had been raised from the dead, since He is obviously now very alive, and immediately submits himself to the Lordship of Jesus, asking what he should do next. Now, according to Romans 10:9-10, if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, you will be saved.
It is obvious from this account so far that Saul not only recognized that Jesus had been raised from the dead, but that he was also worthy to be called "Lord", and more than that, he confessed this out aloud.
In doing so he fulfilled the requirements for being saved.
So, Saul is now a "born again" member of the Church - he then continues on to Damascus. As we continue to read through the account, we see Ananias, an ordinary follower of Jesus (not an apostle or elder, just a believer like one of us) calling Saul his brother (v17), meaning that Ananias understood from his conversation with Jesus that Saul was now a "born again" member of the body of Christ, and should be treated as such - much to Ananias' initial discomfort and misgivings.
Ananias then explains to Saul that he has been instructed personally by Jesus to come and lay hands on Saul for him to receive his sight, and to receive the Holy Spirit. Since Saul is already "born again" - which had happened 3 days previously, Ananias is about to used to do something more - Saul is to "be filled with the Holy Spirit" (v17). So now Saul has been "born again" and has received or has been "filled" with the Holy Spirit. You could argue that what Saul/Paul experienced was not the same experience as the first disciples experienced on the day of Pentecost, but then you have to explain at what point when Saul/Paul received the gift of tongues that he claims in his letter to the Corinthian church "to speak more than any of you" (1 Cor. 14:18). You would also have to explain why Saul/Paul's experience is materially different from the other disciples experiences.
Now, and this is key to understanding the experience of the "baptism of Holy Spirit" as being distinct from the need to be "born-again" in order to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus, following his water baptism by John also received the "baptism of Holy Spirit". It says in Luke 4:1 that Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness. Jesus had to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" before he could commence his ministry. Jesus confirms this in Luke 4:18-19, when he declares that
"“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”"
Jesus, because He was "without sin", did not need to be "born again" of the Spirit, because His spirit was never dead in the first place (until He died on the Cross - but that's another teaching for another day). He had the Holy Spirit living in Him from the moment He was conceived. He did however need to have Holy Spirit come UPON Him to anoint Him for His supernatural ministry. Remember, Jesus laid aside His power and glory and became a Man when He was born, so He no longer had access to the omnipotent and omnipresent power and knowledge of God whilst he walked the earth as a man. As He said Himself, He could only do what the Father told Him to do, and what Holy Spirit empowered him to do.
We, as sinful humans, all need to be "born again" because we need our spirit man to be given life - every person born into the world since Adam has a "dead" spirit - i.e. a spirit that is not alive to God. That's why we need to be saved, and our spirit man made a "new creation" - when the Holy Spirit comes to live on the inside of us.
So likewise for Saul/Paul (and according to Jesus' own words and the accounts in Acts, for everyone else in the Church) - he too needed the "enduing with power from on high" - the baptism of Holy Spirit so he could start his ministry, with the Holy Spirit coming UPON him.
If Jesus, the first disciples and the Apostles, the first Gentiles in the Church, Saul/Paul needed this "infilling", "baptism", which ever you call it, of "power from on high", when the Holy Spirit comes UPON a believer - who by definition already has the Holy Spirit WITHIN them, why should we nowadays be any different or have no need of it? Are we, in effect, by saying we do not need the baptism of Holy Spirit, in fact guilty of telling God we don't need such supernatural gifts and power in our lives - in reality telling God we don't need such things nowadays?
Kathy, to quote you:
That clearly means that all believers have the Holy Spirit. If all are baptized into one body by the Holy Spirit but not all speak in tongues, it makes much more sense to me that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is an event that occurs when the Holy Spirit initiates faith at the time of the believer’s salvation.
If this statement is true, then, according to the biblical accounts I have discussed, we should all speak in tongues when we get born again, since that is what happened in every case when believers received the baptism of Holy Spirit. Since it is clear from your own admission that you do not speak in tongues, by your own statements you are also implying that you are not born again, which statement is obviously, to all of us, not true.
Every believer receives the presence of the Holy Spirit WITHIN them at the new birth. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is also the experience of the Holy Spirit coming UPON a believer and "enduing them with power from on high". All the accounts in Acts indicate that this second experience is accompanied in every case by the believer being able to speak with other tongues.
I have tried to present a reasoned argument from Scripture as to why being "born-again" and receiving the "baptism of Holy Spirit" are two distinct and separate experiences for every believer. So, if you have not asked God to baptize you with Holy Spirit, so that you might receive "power from on high", I cannot more strongly recommend that you ask Him, and in faith receive, and open your mouth and allow Holy Spirit to give you your own supernatural prayer language. It will, I guarantee, revolutionize your walk with God.
John
everyone gets all bent out of shape concerning angels, PLEASE, study the involvement of angels in the work of God through out the ages, as recorded in Scripture.
In 2 Chronicles 32 an angel cut down every man of valor in the Assyrian army. According to 2 Kings 19:35 this angel annihilated over 185,000 men in one night.
In 1 Kings 19 an angel cooked Elijah a meal, and fed him, twice.
According to Psalm 78:49, God dispatches angels of destruction at times to destroy Israel's enemies. Since we are under a better covenant, I do not believe it would be unreasonable to expect God to do the same for us.
If you read the book of Zechariah, he had a number of very close encounters with a number of angels, who spoke with him and prophesied over him, including the well know statement:
“This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel:
‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’
Says the Lord of hosts. [Zechariah 4:6]
This was prophesied to Zechariah by an angel!!!
According to both Psalm 91:11 and Luke 4:10, God has placed angels in charge over each of to protect us. Small children, according to Jesus, have guardian angels, and we can assume that we all do also.
In Matthew 28:2 we see that an angel rolled back the stone in front of the tomb for Mary and and the other women to be able to go in. Two angels spoke to the women to tell that Jesus had risen [John 20:12].
In Luke 2 we have the account of the angels appearing and visiting the shepherds to announce the birth of Jesus.
Angels were intimately involved in Jesus' ministry, from the time of His conception onwards, with angels appearing to various people involved in His life, (John the Baptist's father Zacharias,Mary and Joseph, Mary Magdalene, Salome, Mary the mother of James/Joses, to list a few).
Jesus told Nathanael:
“Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.” [John 1:51]
An angel rescued the apostles after they had been put in jail [Acts 5].
An angle appeared to Philip and told him to go down the road to Gaza to meet the Ethiopian eunuch [Acts 8]
An angel appeared to the Roman Centurion Cornelius, telling him to send for Peter [Acts 10] - as a result of this encounter, the first Gentiles joined the Church.
An angel brought Peter out of the jail, to prevent him from being killed by Herod [Acts 12]
Paul had a visitation from an angel whilst on the ship carrying him to Rome, just before it was shipwrecked [Acts 27:23]
According to Galatians 3:19, the Law of Moses was handed down via angels, which is confirmed in Hebrews 2:2.
According to Hebrews 13:2, some have unwittingly entertained angels.
According to Revelation Ch2-3, every church has its own angel.
In John's Revelation, he recounts how he interacts with many angels. He also visited the Third Heaven, whilst "in the Spirit" - see Revelation 4:1.
According to Revelation 14:6, angels will be used to propagate the Gospel during the Great Tribulation.
According to Revelation 22:6, God will send angels to us to to show His servants the things which must shortly take place during the end-times
As regards the Third Heaven, this is exactly where Paul also went - see 2 Corinthians 12.
The Third Heaven is where God resides - so if you are "in the Spirit" (the place), which we are commanded to be in - we are actually commanded to pray, live and walk in the Spirit at all times, this is where you can go.
So, without making any comment on Andrew Strom's report, I think it behoves us to carefull consider what the Word of God says regarding angelic visitations. If we really are in the last of the last days, which I think most of us agree on, I would expect not only that there would be a great increase in demonic appearances, but also that we would very likely see a correspondingly great increase in visible manifestations of angels.
I do not, repeat do not think any one should go seeking anglic visitations, the enmey is only too willing to oblige, but if someone has a visitation, we need to be careful NOT to jump to the conclusion that it is of the devil, anymore than we should be saying that tongues and other manifestaion of Holy Spirt are not for today, and as such are of the devil.
Remember Jesus' words:
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter;
29 “but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”—
30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” Mark 3:28-30]
The context of this warning is immediately following the Pharisees refusal to accept that the miracles Jesus was doing were of God - in fact they outright said that they were of the devil.
As far as Todd Bentley is concerned, if you research his past, he is a young man (mid twenties) who comes out of a lifestyle of drug and alcohol addiction. He was also delivered from a lifestyle involving criminal activity, youth prisons, drugs, sex, satanic music and bondage. and who was gloriously saved and filled with the Spirit, and who appears to be being used by God in miraculous ways. Anyone coming from that kind of environment is more than likely to look a little strange and have tattoos. We might think that facial piercings are ungodly, but before you judge a person, check out what the scripture says about this [see Exodus 35:22]. Women wear earings - what's the real difference between that and a nose or chin piercing?
As Jesus said, if the tree is good, it will give good fruit. Todd is only a young man, and like all of us will make mistakes, get led off target by his flesh, but when was the last time you laid hands on someone and they were miraculously healed, or glorious saved when you preached the gospel.
As Lori (Campsmore) reported, as well as my pastor, things are a bit wild in Florida - I personally would expect that - but people ARE getting saved, healed and delivered by the power of God.
Don't always rush to judge someone on the basis of hearsay, which much of Mr. Strom's report seems to be based on. If you really want to find out what is going on, visit Florida yourself.
John
I wouldn't judge Todd Bentley for his tattoos or piercings or his past and I've never checked his healings or theology. However, in the video I watched he made obvious errors when stating what several person's ailments were supposed to have been. Sorry, but that immediately raises a red flag for me.
A new report by Palestinian Media Watch asserts that the Palestinian Authority government led by Mahmoud Abbas not only supports terror, but is increasingly allying itself with America’s enemies such as Iran, Syria, North Korea and Venezuela.
Thanks for the news link, Mac. Interesting that "peace seeking" Abbas is aligning himself with those folks.
I miss getting news links from Lori and Nate!
I'd post some, but mine don't seem to come thru properly.
I'll try again and see what happens.
Good morning all,
Please know that I've prayed & agonized over this...
I fear this discussion on speaking in tongues has the potential to cause much division amongst us all.
I am whole-heartedly thrilled for those who have received this gift, and can see that it has made your relationship with our Lord much stronger.
Please do not assume that others who have NOT received this gift or who do not completely agree with ALL that is being stated (especially that ALL people should be speaking in tongues)are ignorant. I've seen this word several times in the last few days & it is very upsetting to me, as I'm sure it is to others.
This is not a salvation issue, there are people here that are incredibly wise (far more than I)& have devoted themselves to seeking the Truth, furtively. To say they are "ignorant" to scripture because they do not share your views is WRONG.
If this was a topic where people were asking questions & trying to learn more about this, I wouldn't be making this post. But I don't see this as the case. We're just going to go back & forth, until the Rapture on this one!
I think it would behoove us all to agree that enough has been said, everyone who wanted to, got their opinions stated & it is now time to move on to something else.
God bless each & everyone of you.
I'm sorry if this ruffled feathers, but really felt it needed to be said.
Good morning!
I only have a few minutes before leaving for work, so this will be short. Since I work all day four days a week, I have a hard time keeping up with you guys! There are things I want to comment on, but then by the time I get around to it, the topic has moved on!
But since the topic of tongues is still being discussed, I would like to give you a link to an article that explains how I believe about tongues better than I can explain it.
And I hope you don't think I'm trying to be devisive, I just want to share what I believe is a clear and reasoned explanation of the gift of tongues. I share it because, even though I don't know you all very well, I care for you!
http://www.amazingfacts.org/FreeStuff/OnlineLibrary/tabid/106/ctl/ViewMedia/mid/447/IID/15/LNG/en/7/Captured-by-Tongues/SC/R/Default.aspx
Have a wonderful day!
Vicki
Can anyone tell me how to do a hyperlink? I'm stumped.
Thanks,
Vicki
Ok--remember I have been gone for a while so am coming in late on these topics....BUT...did I ever tell you all about the reading I got from someone who calls herself "The Angel Lady"?
First of all I did not seek this out, it just happened...and at first I was pretty excited about it...then I dunno...I felt a little creepy about it.
She told me that I have two angels with me all the time. They were both like children, which she said was pretty uncommon. She said one's name...okay now hold your laugter for the end...is "Curly"--and for the life of me I cant remember what the others name was. She said that they were concerned about my inability to relax and be more playful. They said the way I relax...is to grab some really intense book (like Epicenter) and get into it. But I dont have enough fun..which is why she thinks my angels are child-like.
Now there is some truth to my intensity. I am a political junkie and love to listen to/watch/read all the controversy. I am very interested in eschatlogy---I mean, I dont EVER take time to relax by reading something "soothing". (Wait thats not true--I read the Bible all the time...but even then its with a highlighter, pen and paper...)
Anyway---she said to call out to the angels anytime I need something. Then a few of my friends were VERY disturbed by this so I dropped it--forgot it--moved on.
How crazy is that?
Vicki
Bookmark This
JCChick
the "angel lady's" reading was likely the reason you are feeling a presence of evil in your life. I think that while we do have guardian angels and each church has an angel (kind of makes you wonder about just how many angels there are) I don't think they can be known through occult practices such as readings regardless of how the reading is garbed. I would say that you likely wouldn't know of them personally unless there was a dire circumstance and then you likely would not ever know a name. it seems like most of these so called angel experiences, imo, really give a door for demonic influence and nothing else.
Alesia
I agree whole heartedly and amen. I also have felt what you expressed as well.
Boatman- I am HEAVEN bent about God's Angels- No HELL bent like Todd Bentley!
PLEASE WATCH THESE U-TUBE Clips- Then tell me if you will defend him!
Everyone-PLEASE WATCH THESE!! This is his actual first hand testimony.
(I did not feel any demonic influence through the computer by watching these)
Angel Visitation Encounter Todd Bentley part 1
Part 2
This has been a burdon on my Spirit and now I know why the Lord was leading me into a study of Alien Encounters & New Age Beliefs.
I am going to be so bold as to prophesy that He was showing me what is coming upon us.
You want to laugh at my Alien posts? Well this is what is now here folks. They are Demons and they will mix into this "New Age" culture. Look at how the "New Age" beliefs are seeping into the UN, They are seeping into our churches, they are seeping into Israel. They are viewed on our TV screens as "entertainment". The Pope is even talking about it.
The speed at which this is happening is astounding!!!!
OPEN YOU EYES-IF THIS IS NOT THE GREAT DECEPTION THEN IT'S THE PRECURSOR!
Study Alien encounters and New Age beliefs. Base your views on knowledge not false hopes.
I know this is a strong post and statements but I'm ready to burst at the seams!
Lisa
Hi everyone,
I watched a video about Ophra, Obama, and Mr. Wright and was wondering about all of your thoughts about it. It is very disturbing and some very interesting times in which we are living.
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=95633
Father God,
Help us all here to stand firm on the Rock of our salvation, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, the author and perfector of our faith, in the precious name of Jesus, Amen.
Anne and Late Nite Lisa, I will try to touch a bit on some thoughts I had form yesterday, I hope a little later or tonight. God Bless you all. Praying of you JC.
-Jec
JCChick,
I agree with JIB. Stay away from that stuff, it's dangerous!
Michigander,
To make an active link: first, replace each ( with < and each ) with >
(A HREF="the-full-URL")article title(/A)
The (A HREF= identifies intent)
"the full URL") opens and closes with quotation marks followed by the >
Provide a brief article title
Then close with (/A)
Now see if this will help. Hopefully, I instructed clearly..
Blessings! (Mary)
John,
My intent was to state where I stand on the subject and also encourage those who may have been feeling like they were missing out on something when they are not. As Alesia suggested I am going to move on.
I have a question for Vicki. Being a Michigander, do you remember a Sgt. Gabriel DeRoo being in your news in the summer of 2006? He was a soldier from Paw Paw but was stationed here in the Pacific NW. He was killed in action in Iraq in Aug. 2006. He was our pastor's son-in-law. A wonderful young man of God. His wife, my daughter's best friend, went back to Michigan for a memorial service there. I guess it was a pretty big thing. He was the first soldier to fall in his brigade of 5,000 when they deployed in June of 2006. I was just wondering if you remember the news story.
A joyfilled day to All!
Hello all,
This is not a new post, but many may not have read it. I just stumbled across it. Thought some might enjoy it....
Syria Caught
Blessings! (Mary)
Drat, Alesia....
You got to the blog before I could today. Out of respect for your request that we drop the current hot potato, I'll post my letter at my own blog with a link here (this is the letter I mentioned yesterday and worked on til 2AM).
Rather than use Scripture to try and get a different angle on the subject, I've painted a picture that I think everyone can relate to. If you're befuddled or peeved that the tongues people won't let their position rest, check this out and see if it helps shed light onto what seems like an annoying (at best) or heretical (at worst) position to hold.
Blessings,
Jen
Tongue Tied
JIB and Alesia! AHHHH!
You know what??? That happened to me back in October. Think about how long I have been out of the loop?? Do you think that could really be why? Did I tell you about the weird events that happened after that? About my gas stove being turned on OVERNIGHT??? I ran frantically from room to room to check on my babies it scared me so bad! NONE of us could figure out how that thing got turned on. We didnt even use the stove the night before! I went through the house then praying and demanding all evil GET OUT. Does this sound crazy? Did I do enough? What else can I do??
Okay now Im so freaked out my hair is standing on end....
To all cavers,
Please read Jen's blog entry on tongues- it might explain the passion some of us on certain subjects. (Thank you Jen - you really have a gift to teach).
For myself, one (maybe the biggest single) desire is to give instruction on matters that I KNOW can be divisive, because we are ALL going to need to know the TRUTH in a big, big way in the coming months.
There are some very serious things coming down the road that will deeply effect all of us, and may even cause some to question their faith and belief in God. This is not meant to scare any one, rather give you advance warning, and I am a pre-trib believer).
We are also about to see the greatest outpouring of God's supernatural power the world has EVER seen. As a result the devil will try to stop it, and will try to deceive many.
If we do not understand what the scriptures say about the supernatural, then we WILL be deceived by the enemy. if we refuse to accept what the Word says about how to operate in the supernatural, we will be in deep, deep trouble.
We are coming to a time in history when lack of knowledge WILL kill you.
God has ALREADY said in His Word that He has ALREADY given us ALL spiritual blessings. The problem for many of us that these blessing are located and accessible only in the heavenly realm of the Spirit. If you do not know, first how to get into the realm of the Spirit, let alone bring "stuff" from the Spirit realm into the natural, you will never be able to avail your self of all these blessing.
Its like having a heavenly bank account (which Jesus said we should invest in, as it is more secure than bank accounts, salaries, pensions, social security, etc), in which everything you will ever have need of down here on earth, but you either do not know it's there (the bank, let alone the account), do not know how to get to the bank (get into the Spirit realm), and do not know how to write a check and cash it (how you exercise your spiritual authority, bring the "stuff" you need into the natural realm.
Why is that important?
Simply because EVERYTHING in the natural realm originates in the spirit realm. Nothing exists in the natural realm unless it first exists in the spirit realm.
You fill up your heavenly bank account by paying tithes and giving offerings. Your rate of return depends on where you deposit your offerings to. If you give to the poor, then God regards this as a loan which He promises to repay you.
Giving to God is like a farmer sowing seed. A farmer EXPECTS to get a return. I think it something of the order of anything from 30 to over 100 fold return - for example a bushel of wheat seed will give a 60-70 fold increase, a bushel of corn seed can give up to 150 fold return.
The farmer sows in faith - he KNOWS that he will get a return, otherwise he will go bankrupt. It is exactly the same in the spirit realm. We must sow into the spirit realm according to God's laws of sowing and reaping, by giving of our increase, income, whatever we have (even of our time and energy).
When we give, we MUST give in the complete, absolute assurance that we HAVE already got that return in the spirit realm, and then we have to cash our check in the spirit realm to receive whatever we need in the natural.
If you give cheerfully and in faith to the work of the ministry, provided you give to something that God is blessing (otherwise you throwing your treasure to the pigs), you can, by faith expect a 100 fold return here in this life.
Your tithe, if given in the manner God proscribes, and you give it in faith, cheerfully, God says He will bless you in the here and now with blessings you cannot contain (and this is not limited to financial blessings)
If, as God says (therefore we should just believe it) that He will supply all our need, His provision for us originates in the spirit realm. As somebody once pointed out, God does not have dollar bills in heaven. He does not have gasoline powered automobiles in Heaven. Yet, at least for most of us on this blog, we have need of these things everyday.
WE (hopefully) pray each day that God will supply our daily bread. Are you, faith-wise and spiritually-wise ready for a time when you literally have to depend on God for your next slice of bread or glass of water, because, for whatever reason, you cannot go and buy it or get it any other way.
If you think that those of us living in N.America (or pretty much anywhere in the modern western world), will never be in that situation, that this is not going to happen to you, please think again.
Stuff is coming down the road that will force us ALL to learn to depend on God in a way that you have, probably, never even dreamt of, or even thought possible. Unfortunately, some believers will literally starve to death in the natural, because they do not know how to get what they need from the spirit realm.
If you have not learnt to step into the realm of the Spirit, in order to appropriate those things that you need ("stuff") for daily living, it will be VERY hard (and in some case too late) to try and learn about it when disaster strikes. I am not talking only about food, clothing etc., but also about being protected from sickness and disease, the weather, natural disasters (hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, etc.)
Can you hear God clearly enough so that if He suddenly says to you, while you are driving on a highway somewhere, on which there seems to be little or no traffic, to change lanes, or get off the road. You may, literally, only have seconds to obey, otherwise you may lose your life.
Wiill you be able to be like Elijah, and hear and obey God when He tells you to go to a specific place in order for you to receive your daily bread. If Elijah had not gone to the Brook Kerith, would God have still fed him? The answer is no, because God instructed the ravens to bring food to the place, not the person! (Oh, and by the way, God did this for one of His children in the '80's, when he was trapped in Beirut during the Lebanese civil war and had no money or means to feed himself,and could not leave his apartment - large birds came every day with food for a period of 5-6 weeks!!
Do you recognize the voice of Holy Spirit. Do you KNOW that you KNOW that when you are praying, you are praying the perfect will of God.
According to Mark 11:24, if you do not believe (and I mean really, really believe, from the bottom of your heart NOT your head) that you have received what you about to pray for, God says you will NOT receive it.
If you do not REALLY believe, then you are not praying in faith, and God says that doing something that is not of faith is sin.
More than that, without faith is it IMPOSSIBLE to please God.
Please, take this in the spirit it is intended, in love, for your well being.
John
...and I was having such a good day...
Did anyone listen to Ravi Zacharias on Dr. Dobson's show? He was simply wonderful....
Alesia,
"I believe they were given at a specific time to spread the gospel and were used under specific conditions. "
This is overcomers statement. Which is partially true.
"Tongues should be interpreted"
This is also partially true when it is done in a public setting.
"they should be a foreign language unknown to the one speaking it to share the gospel."
This is also partially true but not wholly.
This is an excuse to justify the reason why someone does not feel this Spiritual gift is legitimate for people today. These statements only take out of the Scipture what "they feel" supports their view. It is not telling the entire truth.
Sorry, Ignorant is a strong word. I know it's going to tick many of you off.
I don't like confrontation or division either. I'm just going to ask you bare with me. I woke up with so much fire in my veins this morning I'm almost to the point I could take it to the streets.I'm on the verge of implosion.
Where has our logical reasoning gone?
Why would your brothers and sisters in Christ speak in tongues if this was not of benefit for us today?
Do you think our Father would give us a gift if it's a waste of time in our generation?
Why am I even praying in tongues?
It's either a gift from our Heavenly Father or it's not. There is no other interpretation.
I don't fully know yet if it's only meant for particular individuals or not. That I admit.
But either I'm a liar, God's a liar, or your misinterpreting the Scripture or I've actually been influenced or possessed by Satan.
Which one is it?
This is not an issue of salvation I agree- this is an issue of logical thinking.
I do not look down on anyone for not speaking in tongues or even not having the desire to so or asking and not receiving.
But think about it. Do you not insult the very Person who gave your Christian friends this gift by relying upon some feeling? By relying upon a man's opinion & reasoning?
A person's "feelings" have nothing to do with truths.
It's either from God or it's not.
How many hours in study and prayer have you spent on this topic? Did you open up your Bible and search out a few scriptures that seem to agree with your viewpoint and then shut it?
Or did you talk with Christians who have this gift? Look into your hearts-have you earnestly searched for the answers? Have you read the Bible in prayer with an open mind?
Or did you find some views which suit our own and leave it at that?
I truly admire many of your personal qualities on this blog.
Alesia your a great fair minded moderator.Gentle yet firm.
Jen- Is the sweetest, most humble gentle Christian I've yet to meet.
Jim C.- is so full of compassion and knowledge about various topics.
Boatman- is persistant yet patient.
Grany- is wise and experienced. I always think of an owl.
And I can go on----& some of you I don't think I know well enough to comment.
What am I? I'm probably a real pain in rear. I'll let you decide that one.
I get no joy in laying it on the line. If I feel promped by the Spirit then I will do so. If you rather silence what I have the urge to express -it's understood.
We are in the End Days. Is this not becoming clearer day by day?
Honestly I rather play it safe. Be thought of as "nice", not cause any "waves", have everyone "love" me here. That feels so much better to my flesh.
But to my Spirit, especially today-I am ready to burn up. All the pieces are falling togeather-Do you not also have a sense of "Urgency?"
So you say- This tongue issue- Well it really doesn't matter.
Yes it does matter. It matters in the sense of logical reasoning. We are in the middle of the fiercest spiritual warfare the world has yet to see.
If we don't cling tight with all we have to give-Mind,Spirit and Soul to the coat tails of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ we will be deceived. And one of our greatest weapons in our mind is the use of Logical Reasoning.
How are you going to decipher true Heavenly supernatural events from false Satan inspiried alien encounters?
This is a gloves off knock down drag them to Heaven or Hell event.
And what have I been called to do? I guess be considered the jerk on this blog.
Lisa
Wow John, that was terrific...thank you....I am going to copy it and keep it...it is a great lesson for the days ahead....
I wholeheartedly agree with jib and alesia, jcchick....stay away from that! It is dangerous!
Israeli celebrations have Muslim world hot and bothered
hopefully this will work...let me know!
Lisa,
Putting on the full armor of God is how we may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
The first piece of armor is Truth.
Then righteousness. Then the gospel of peace. Then the shield of faith. Then the helmet of salvation. Last, the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
I think it is significant that the list start and ends with protection relating to God's Word.
I don't view you as a jerk.
His Love,
Kathy
California Supreme Court overturns gay marriage ban
God help us all, and forgive us.
<><
LISA I agree whole heartedly! And Alesia, I so understand your position too. That said, I have to tell you that what John said, combined with the fire that is surely burning in Lisa and Jen and ah, ah, me is trying to shout "WARNING, WARNING! MAN YOUR BATTLE STATIONS! ENEMY IS SIGHTED AND COMING IN FAST AT 12 O'CLOCK"
Please everyone, your church doctrines are from various mind sets developed by man to explain scripture but also to reduce to no use things that have laid dormant for such a long time. These doctrines were developed by men and women who loved God and his Word greatly, even going so far as to give their life for it. No greater love has any man that he would give up his life for another.
The same holds true right now, the here and now! I call this time period we are living in the incubation phase where God has placed us in a safe enviroment and set his hearts desires in our hearts that we would become the sons and daughters of the Most High for this age. I believe and pray daily for the true scriptures to unfold and be revealed to each and every one of us. There are new revelations daily regarding the word of God and what was hidden in Daniel's day is being revealed in ours. No one person can know it all but the Holy Spirit is the author and inspiration of all the Holy Scriptures.
Can any of us deny that we would love to communicate deeper and sweeter with our Abba? Can any of you point to a time in your life that you were totally satisfied with your worship and praise of Abba? Can you point to a time that you had all of the answers at the exact time you needed them and then felt confident that what you had answered was right on?
If I see a child starting to cross the street with an 18 wheeler speeding right toward him/her, don't you think I would run into the road and snatch back the child to keep them from harm? We are all children of God and he loves each of us equally the same. What gift I have is designed and fitted to me exactly as the Holy Spirit sees fit and he doesn't do anything other than what the Father in Heaven directs him to do.
The Holy Spirit is simply God, Jesus and Spirit all rolled up into one. I have seen people do ridiculous things and act like caged animals, all supposedly under the direction of the Holy Spirit's infilling/baptism. However, after the services were over and they went to order their food, they acted quite separate from God. Mean, hateful and demanding. Look at the fruit of the Spirit and tell me that it fits those actions. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is a progressive development that the infilling brings about in each believer. Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness,Gentleness and Self Control. Galatins 5:22 lists all of them but for your sheer desire to fully understand, here is a list with the original word that each was translated from:
* love (agape);
* joy (chara);
* peace (eirene);
* patience (makrothumia);
* kindness (chrestotes);
* goodness (agathosune);
* faithfulness (pistis);
* gentleness (prautes);
* self-control (enkrateia).
Paul's Galatians list is made of stuff that is both something you are and something you do. It is the Spirit giving you the character of Christ. There are other such lists in the Epistles, and they are also relevant to any talk about the 'fruit of the Spirit'.
In 1 Corinthians 13, in the midst of Paul's description of the gifts of the Spirit, there is a section on love. While not directly about 'fruit', it is about what springs from love, and it is in much the same vein. According to verses 4-8, love:
* suffers long;
* is kind;
* does not envy (ou zeloo);
* does not parade itself (ou perereupmai);
* does not get 'puffed up' (ou phusioutai);
* does not behave rudely (ouk askemonei);
* is not provoked;
* does not think evilly, nor rejoice in sin;
* rejoices in the truth;
* bears all things;
* believes all things;
* hopes all things;
* endures all things.
In Phillipians 4:8, Paul advises us to think on things that are:
* true;
* noble, or worthy of high esteem (semnos);
* just;
* pure;
* lovely (prosphiles);
* of good report (euphemos);
* of any virtue, or excellence (arete);
* worthy of praise(epainos).
In Colossians 3:12-16, the church members are told to put on (wear) these things:
* tender mercies;
* kindness;
* humility or self-smallness (tapeinophrasune);
* a heart of compassion (oiktirmos);
* gentleness;
* patience.
Then, they are further instructed to:
* bear with one another;
* forgive one another;
* love;
* let the peace of God rule their hearts;
* be thankful (eucharistoi);
* have the Word live in them abundantly;
* teach and admonish one another;
* sing with grace in their hearts.
All this character stuff is to be done in the name of Jesus, to further the purposes He came for.
We are to be a delight to God and for HIS GLORY! There is much to learn and the time is short but I believe with all of my heart that God is doing the work and we have to be receptive of His teaching.
I always evaluate everything that is done in the Spirit by the life and actions of Jesus Christ. I trust Paul's Apostleship and the whole scriptures input as a guide to my actions and of those who claim to be acting under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Not everyone who calls Jesus Lord, is saved! But only those who know him with their hearts, minds and souls.
It is the Anointing that the Holy Spirit brings that makes the difference.
Grany
Sorry for the length of that comment. Just had to get it off of my chest or like Lisa, I would explode.
I have been silent (tired from trying to keep up with younger beings) and plenty of time to pray. But I felt such a heaviness in my inner being that I was almost incapacitated. I am not a sad type person and my glass is always full or half full so I knew it was not depression. I couldn't shake that feeling and started wondering if it was a sign of something seriously wrong with my physical body. I ache and entertain the Ritis boys on a semi-regular basis but when I get tired of them I kick their behinds out the door and get back on track. However, this time it was a whole new thing.
When I would try to get interested in reading on the internet it just didn't work. The only thing that brought me even a small benefit was praying and praising the Lord. My Bible was my Hiding place and believe me, all of the scriptures came alive for me during that time. In fact, the Holy Spirit brought back to my remembrance things I had forgotten long ago.
John is right! We are living in dangerous waters and if you want to keep your head above the waves, get into the Word seriously and you can't do that unless you are willing to learn from the Author. If what we said is contrary to your belief system, pray about it and ask, ask and ASK God to show you, reveal to you and endue with understanding beyond what you have now. Never be satisfied with your present level of relationship or understanding. There are so many facets to God that it takes all of the heavenlies to contain Him. That is why the Clouds are required for his footsteps.
I don't want anyone to be deceived and the only way you aren't going to be is with the whole person of the Special Gift that Abba sent after His Son, our redeemer and soon coming King, ascended to the Throne for. Remember, Jesus said that we would do everything that he did and MORE BESIDES BECAUSE HE (JESUS) WAS GOING TO TAKE HIS PLACE AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, EVER INTERCEDING FOR US.
Hallelujah! Amen!
Grany
Please forgive me all…
John & Lisa – One of the things I love most about both of you is your passion. Lisa, I do see that you are on fire & I think that is fantastic!!!
John:
You said: “For myself, one (maybe the biggest single) desire is to give instruction on matters that I KNOW can be divisive, because we are ALL going to need to know the TRUTH in a big, big way in the coming months.”
This clearly implies that you think YOU are right & those who do not agree with you are WRONG! Which I can understand you thinking but can not quite understand you posting.
I think anyone putting themselves into the role of “instructor/teacher” needs to be very careful & it is something that should not be taken lightly & carries with it an awesome responsibility. I also believe it can be dangerous to do so as well.
Lisa:
Yes, I have personally been studying & praying about this topic -as have MANY others here at the cave.
I personally believe ALL the gifts are still available to the church. I believe that if God wants us to have a specific gift – we will. Let’s not forget; tongues are not the only gift – yet it is the only one ever talked about here!
What you both don’t realize and what prompted me to write my comment this morning is that there IS ALREADY division, there ARE many, many upset & hurt people here at the cave because of this. I have spent an exorbitant amount of time with emails back & forth from folks who are hurt, in strong opposition, livid, enraged etc. Most are trying their best to sit on their hands to not start a war. While I tried to do the same, the kicker for me was, there is someone here that is VERY beloved to me & when I saw them getting upset as well, I knew I had to speak up & try to alleviate some of this tension. At some point someone needed to speak up & I guess that’s me!
The main thing I am asking for (not for myself, but for the others) is to be respectful & understanding of the fact that some others don’t completely or necessarily agree with some of the views spoken about this. This IS being shoved down people’s throats because it IS being said in an attempted authoritative way that if we don’t agree, we are ignorant, misinformed, illogical or haven’t studied scripture properly.
Can you not concede that we have simply come to a different scriptural conclusion than you?
Folks – our fellowship here is SO important, I care deeply about each & every one of you. I don’t want to see our cave under this much tension over this.
YSIC
Alesia,
I'm sorry I posted about tongues after you said to refrain from it. I must have been writing my post while you posted yours, and in my haste to get to work, I didn't see it. This is your blog and I want to abide by the rules!
-----
Jib & Mary,
Thanks!
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Lisa,
I am in agreement! This is nothing to fool around with!
------
Overcomer,
I'm sorry but that name does not ring a bell. Such a tragedy! Too many young men have died.
-----
Would like to write more, but gotta go!
Vicki
Vicki,
First - this isn't MY blog, it is ALL of ours. (Mac & I get the grunt work of keeping the cave cleaned & stocked with coffee & pastry!)hahaha
Not sure there are any rules other than to be respectful & loving to one another. :-)
I wasn't demanding/ordering - I was pleading. I was trying SO hard to alleviate the building tension.
I tried - I failed ~sigh~
Alesia, no you did not fail! I apologize if my remarks made you feel that way. Your very loved ones are our very loved ones also, or at least, they should be.
God bless you all and just remember, it is the walk that is the most important part of our Christian existence.
Grany
Grany,
No, your remarks were lovely!
Thank you, honey.
FYI, I'm not going to Orlando, God's here too.
I cannot look at video links, I'm on dial up.... I would just be a skeleton sitting here 10 years from now, waiting for it to load.
As for the "other" hot topic on this post; I have one thing to say, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever"
Lisa, Grany, thank you, you said it all.
If I have offended anyone here, I sincerely apologize.
I am but a baby in the things of the Spirit. I am struggling myself to understand how to get "into the Spirit". All I know is God has made it unequivocally plain to our pastors that we MUST learn how to walk and live "in the Spirit" NOW, if we want to do more than survive the coming days.
I felt I had to share some of their recent teachings, in the hope it might help someone.
John
China: Quake death toll could reach 50,000
Shalom, all!
OK. I think we've all felt that SOMETHING will be happening to the US, and happening soon. With California now allowing gay marriages, I think it will be sooner rather than later. So let's see if we can find a consensus on what might be happening. I'm focusing on major natural disasters that affect hundreds of square miles and really screw up our economy. Our contestants are (going from west to east):
1. Major earthquake in California
2. Major earthquake in California and tsunami/lahar in Oregon and Washington State
3. New Madrid earthquake
4. Earthquake in upstate New York (Niagara/Erie area)
5. Hurricane striking the entire east coast of the United States, starting in Florida and ending up in New York City
6. Tsunami striking the east cost of the US -- Florida is wiped out, as are all coastal cities up to Boston.
7. Other (please specify)
Remember, vote early, vote often!
<><
"7. Other (please specify)"
I had a headache yesterday - does that count?
Jec, Shalom! I know I promised a more complete posting re: your daughter, but I'm trying to get caught up on a couple of things. I just wanted to let you know that I'm still working on that posting, and still keeping you and your daughter in prayer.
It's of note to me (as a Roman Catholic) that today is the feast day of the martyrdom of St. Dymphna, who is the patron of those with mental and nervous disorders. I will ask her to place prayers for you and your daughter in the incense before the Lamb, "which are the prayers of the holy ones." (Rev. 5:8)
<><
Well, it looks like you guys have had an exciting day. I said I wouldn't comment about tongues here after my last input. I have my own strong feelings on this subject. So, for the most part, I'll stay silent here except to say this: for those people who don't speak in tongues and who may feel they are somehow doing something incorrectly - I've posted a new article on my blog.
In Christ
mac
Shalom, all! Back on May 5 I mentioned I had some information on Catholic End-Times prophecies. Anne promptly spoke up and said she'd like to hear about saint's prophecies, so I've been trying to organize what I've found, as well as confirming what I have hasn't been discredited. (And if nothing else, it might get us off the subject of tongues.) So, here goes:
Anne, you specifically asked about the Rwandan apparitions. In November 1981, apparitions of Mary began in Kibeho, Rwanda, Africa, to seven visionaries: Alphonsine, Emmanuel, Anathalie, Marie-Claire, Stephanie, Agnes, and Vestine. (Some of the seers had apparitions of both Mary and Jesus.) Three of them were boarders in a college administered by nuns in a poor area, and three others live in the bush. Our Lord appeared independently to a young pagan, Sagstashe, who has since taken the Christian name Emmanuel. Our Lord taught him the Our Father and gave him instructions on the faith. Emmanuel was given the following message from the Blessed Mother:
'There isn't much time left in preparing for the Last Judgment. We must change our live, renounce sin. Pray and prepare for our own death and for the end of the world. We must prepare while there is still time. Those who do well will go to Heaven. If they do evil, they will condemn themselves with no hope of appeal. Do not lose time in doing good and praying. There is not much time and Jesus will come.'
In one vision that lasted eight hours they saw terrifying images of people killing each other, and bodies thrown into rivers. They saw bodies without their heads -- decapitated. They were weeping and crying and the witnesses who crowded around the seers were left with "an unforgettable impression of fear and sadness."
If Rwanda did not come back to God, said the vision, there would be a 'river of blood.' 10 years later, the Rwandan genocide began.
Alphonsine Mumureka, who was sixteen years old when the apparitions began, had apparitions of the Blessed Mother from November 28, 1981 to November 28, 1988. Anthalie Mukamazimpaka, who was seventeen years old when the apparitions began, had apparitions of the Lord Jesus and the Blessed Mother from January 12, 1982 to December 3, 1983. Marie-Clare Mukangango, who was twenty-one years old when the apparitions began, had fifteen apparitions of the Blessed Mother from March 2, 1982 to December 15, 1982. She died in the summer of 1994 during the ethnic violence occurring in Rwanda. The visions and messages of the other four individuals have not been approved and are still being investigated.
More Catholic Prophecies after I eat dinner.
<><
I am sorry to hear that some folks are really upset about the whole tongues/teaching issue.
In my opinion, Mac posted a great article about it on his website.
I realize people's minds are probably not going to be changed on this.
The 'tongues=baptism of the Holy Spirit theology' (which I do not think is scriptural) is a school of thought that Pentacostal churches teach.
Like it or not this teaching is here to stay as its been around a long time. It's not going to go away.
Personally, all I normally do is roll my eyes when I hear this teaching and think "oh no, not this again!"
THere are however some teaching that do strike a nerve with me.
What upsets me personally (suprise-surprise) are statements from our (beloved) Catholic brother, Jim, asking the saints or Mary to pray for us, such as his asking "St" Dymphna (who is dead) to pray for Jec and her daughter.
Now that strikes a nerve with me!
I guess we all have our touchy areas.
Grumpy got all upset months ago with me when I described myself as a "liberal"...which I am with some issues, like health care.
While we are here on this earth we are going to have differences.
I just hope and pray that these differences do NOT cause so much division that it disrupts the wonderful fellowship that we have going here.
If anyone has any practical suggestions for how to deal with all of this, let us know.
The only thing I can think of is the "do not make your brother stumble" teaching.
"The only thing I can think of is the "do not make your brother stumble" teaching."
Very well said, Donna.
"I wasn't demanding/ordering - I was pleading. I was trying SO hard to alleviate the building tension.
I tried - I failed ~sigh~"
I don't think you failed at all, Alesia. And I think this group fave constantly shown themselves to be able to rise up above differences. Some things need to be said - in love and in Christ,
Earlier I posted a link to a very short small book by Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel fame on Charisma vs Charismania. he talks about tongues etc in chapter 9. for what it's worth it appears to be quite well balanced and he is after all one of the early leaders of the Charismatic movement.
as a note about all potentially divisive subjects-some times it's not the message it's the delivery.
BTW Grany that was an awesome post at 10:44 and Alesia that was an awesome post at 11:29!
Thanks Mac. I try not to use the "l" word since I know how it upsets people on these blogs and I do not want to make my brothers or sisters stumble.
Oh, happy days!
California's top court legalizes gay marriage
Donna,
Thanks!
You said: In my opinion, Mac posted a great article about it on his website.
I agree completely!
I'm going to try this link again, for those who are interested:
Understanding Tongues
It worked! Thanks again, Alesia and Mary! I actually learned something new!
Jim, thank you for the information about the Rwanda apparitions. I must say, I don't know what to think of it. When I first heard of it I wondered if God had tried to warn the Rwandans and they ignored the warnings (like we in the West do everyday).
I did some researching on it myself this weekend and found something which I hesitate to share because I fear it might cause more division (oh, great!) on a different subject (than tongues). But, I feel I should share this link. I am interested in your opinion, Jim, and I want to say that I admire and respect you. But, you will find the video does not present the apparitions of today favorably. In fact, it down right frightened me for those who are believers in them.
The video is long, more than an hour, but I found it very informative. Remember, I might be a Baptist but I'm not anti-Catholic (nor anti-charasmatic). I will agree to hear your comments and if I disagree, will agree to that as well.
Roger Oakland: A Biblical examination of the Apparitions of the Virgin Mary in the end times.
(For some reason, it's under the topic of Islam.)
Good night, all, and God bless you, every one. The Lord is here and with us. We will overcome this division with our love for each other.
Remember that song? "They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love, they will know we are Christians by our love."
that's "charismatic" not "charasmatic".
Really past my bedtime!
Excellent article Vicki.
Catholic End-Times Prophecies:
A number of saints, visionaries, and mystics through the centuries have been granted the inspiration to prophesy on the End Times. While these prophesies had been collected and stored, they really hadn't been distributed because it was obvious that the times described had not arrived yet. That condition has obviously changed; and the growth of the Internet makes it possible to compare and contrast the different prophecies. Doing so has brought to light a great number of similarities in many of these prophecies. I'm going to list and explain the most frequent of these prophetic events. Keep in mind that these are not official Catholic doctrine. They come under the heading of private revelation. They are given to an individual, and may be shared with others, but are not meant for the Church as a whole (i.e., they are not to be considered as doctrine). With that caveat, here we go:
The Warning, The Great Miracle, and The Three Days of Darkness
These are three linked events that have been prophesized about since the year 400AD. In the last hundred years, different visionaries and prophets have improved our understanding of these events.
The Warning or Illumination
While this was mentioned by some visionaries several centuries ago, recent prophetic messages have changed the description from something that will happen far in the future to something that will happen within the next decade or so. The most recent and specific descriptions came from a series of apparitions that occured at Garabandal, Spain, in the 1960's. Each person alive will experience this phenomenon. The phenomenon has been called "The Warning" or "The Illumination of Conscience" (although in recent messages the word used is closer to “Notice” or “Ultimatum” in English). It will be a phenomenon in which each person alive at that time will experience an interior vision, a vision of his entire life and the state of his soul, as God sees it. At the end of the vision we will see the current state of our soul at that time, and where in Heaven or Hell we would reside if we died at that moment. Some (i.e. those who are in the state of mortal sin at the time) may die of fright. THIS MAY BE GOD’S LAST ATTEMPT TO GET OUR ATTENTION BEFORE HE BEGINS TO CLEANSE THE WORLD OF EVIL.
Immediately upon experiencing the Warning each person MUST make a choice either for Jesus or for Satan ... there can be no alternative. It will require OVERT actions; simply sitting in a pew for 1 hour on Sunday won’t cut it. Faith alone is insufficient. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed. But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God. (John 3:20-21)
This type of Illumination has been described before in the Bible: Judas got a band of soldiers and guards from the chief priests and the Pharisees and went there with lanterns, torches, and weapons. Jesus, knowing everything that was going to happen to him, went out and said to them, "Whom are you looking for?" They answered him, "Jesus the Nazorean." He said to them, "I AM." Judas his betrayer was also with them. When he said to them, "I AM," they turned away and fell to the ground. So he again asked them, "Whom are you looking for?" They said, "Jesus the Nazorean." Jesus answered, "I told you that I AM. (John 18:3-8)
The retinue which came to seize Christ are themselves seized with some kind of fear and awe, falling to the ground as Jesus identifies Himself as Yahweh, which translated, means "I AM." The soldiers know the state of their souls. This is followed by a great miracle:
Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's slave and cut off his right ear. But Jesus said, "No more of this!" And he touched his ear and healed him. (John 18:10; Luke 22:51)
The Great Miracle
Further, it was predicted that within one year of the Warning a Great Miracle will occur at Garabandal, Spain. It is to occur on a Thursday evening at 8:30 p.m. between the 8th and 16th of March, April or May. It is to coincide with an important event of the Church and on the feast day of a young martyr of the Eucharist. There will be conversions and healings. One will be able to see and photograph the Great Miracle, but not touch it. A permanent sign is to remain as a result of the Great Miracle. According to one of the visionaries, it will be like a pillar of smoke.
Many believe that it will be the shekinah glory ... the pillar of smoke by day and the pillar of fire by night as in the Old Testament. The shekinah glory represents God’s physical presence (Exodus 13:21; 14:24; 19:16; 34:5; and 40:36 and Deutoronomy 1:33 and 31:15, etc.). If so, they also believe that this will lead to mass conversions of Jews to the Catholic Faith, as has been predicted for centuries to occur near the end of time.
After this will come the Chastisements. The severity and length of the chastisements will depend on how completely and thoroughly we've turned our lives around after the Warning and the Miracle. This will be followed by the three days of the tomb...
The Three Days of Darkness
I cannot find any single one description of this event that can summarize it. It is a time that will not be unexpected: in fact, about a week before it happens several prophets and visionaries will confirm that it will come. The mainstream media will mock it -- that's how news of it will be spread to the whole world, treating it as a joke. When it comes, conditions will be so bad some prophets say to lock yourselves in your houses because anyone outside when the darkness begins will be killed. The three days of darkness, from its beginning through to its end, will be like a supernatural storm, and one-third of humanity will die in this storm. Some visionaries also say do not open your doors or windows to anyone, as all the demons of hell will be released during that time in a whirlwind of destruction, and any voice you hear, though it sounds like a friend, will be that of a demon. In addition, no man-made light will shine. The only light available will be from blessed candles. (Think of the Egyptians during the plague of darkness -- only the Israelites had light.) It is, in a word, like the sixth seal of Revelation (or the fifth trumpet -- I've seen both descriptions used.)
Well, that's it for this edition of our show. Let me know if anyone is interested in the Catholic view of the Great Apostasy and the False Pope.
<><
Did anyone have a chance to hear Joel on today’s Focus on the Family radio broadcast?
In case you missed it, you can listen to it online. They post daily broadcasts now online.
Broadcast Summary
In recognition of modern-day Israel's 60th anniversary as a nation, Tom Doyle and Joel Rosenberg discuss current threats to the Jewish state as well as the needs of the Christian church in the Middle East.
(Part 1 of 2)
Jim G.
Shalom, all! For your discernment?
Mystery of the Missing Honeybees Solved?
It could be that Colony Collapse Disorder could be the result of beekeepers trying to make bees do things they weren't designed to do.
<><
I see everyone was jolted awake.
I've learned a very valuable lesson from this ordeal.
Whatever you request if it's in God's will your going to get it.
And boy did I get it-in more ways that one.
I don't know how many of you have had the burden of the Holy Sprit fall upon you but if you haven't I pray that you would experience it.
In fact I'm going to pray about it for all the cave dwellers here and see what happens.
Because you will go where no man has gone before-(that one's a joke) and say things you would never have imagined saying in your life with all boldness and conviction.
What I call the "burden" to me feels like a powerful sense of urgency combined with a feeling of heaviness.
I've felt it before but this time I think it may have been a test to see how much I could take.
I was going to pick up my daughter from school and it got so strong I almost stopped the car as I felt like pounding the earth and crying out to the Lord. I kept on going (as I would look really strange off the side of the road-but at the time you don't really care)
and then it gradually eased up.
You may have read about this in books which explain how the Holy Spirit works in people's lives.
Lisa
Late Night Lisa, Jen, and Boatman:
I so appreciate all that you have both written lately. Jen, I clicked on the link to Tongue Tied but see I need an invite.
I'd appreciate your prayers. It's been too long since I've been on fire for the Lord. I mean I love him but you (and many others who post here) have reminded me that I can go much deeper in my walk and my communion with the Lord. I've got a wife and a wonderful 20 month old son, Daniel, who is absolute gift from God. I want to be the husband and father that God wants me to be.
Anyway, thanks for the encouragement (especially regarding tongues). A great book on the subject (perhaps out of print now) is by Jack Hayford. The Beauty of Spiritual Language. It's been many years since I've prayed in tongues. I was very blessed to read your personal testimony and thoughts on the subject.
For those who are on the other side of this (Mac, Kathy, Alesia) and are now worried about me, I did read many of your comments too and a few of the articles that you posted as well;-)
I don't think there is anyone who posts here from whom I haven't learned something valuable. I love you all. I'm blessed to have found you again (after reading your comments at Joel's).
Jim G.
Late Night Lisa, Jen, and Boatman:
Oops, should have written:
I so appreciate all that you three have written lately...
Thanks for the Joel link, Jim.
I'm not worried about you at all:-)
I have other friends who have that gift also, yet who share my thinking about this. Good to see you posting!
Mac, I know you are awake because it is 4 a.m. Friday morning here and I have to ask one question. What in the world is going on; I got so sleepy about 6 p.m. Thursday (yesterday just barely) and stretched out on the sofa just to rest my weary eyes. Next thing I know I am jolted wide awake at 1 a.m. and I am so awake it is pathetic. This ole bear doesn't do things like that and in fact, I don't remember ever doing anything like it before except when I had my little babies to care for 24 hours a day.
So, you all, I know from the feeling inside of me that my Spirit man is wanting to be heard. Please pray that I will be able to discern what is of God and what isn't.
Mac, you know you are precious in God's eyes but you have to know that you are also precious in our eyes too. There has to be balance in the body of Christ and sometimes in the heat of the dance it is almost impossible to achieve that. Have you ever square danced? There is a caller that instructs the dancers the next move to take. If the caller gets mixed up the dancers will go into chaos. If the dance music is too slow, confusion reigns and if it is too fast, the dancers get dizzy and confusion comes in again. Keep us in step brother and our eyes focused on our Head. Christ is the Head and we are all part of the body. Two legs, two arms, two eyes, etc. But one heart and that should be tuned into the Father of us all.
Love you with the Love of Christ,
Grany
Grany: I'm very new to this (primitive baptists don't discuss these sort of things), but all week I've felt like something terrible is hanging over us. Then last night I was so sleepy that I went to bed at 7 p.m. and didn't wake up until the alarm went off at 3:45 a.m. As a matter of fact, I do not remember any dreams or anything which is very unusual. When I got up the "waiting for the other shoe to drop" feeling is gone. What is going on??
Okay---for ME---(going back to things that strike nerves) I get really worked up when some get so mad about people like Jim saying he would ask a Saint to pray for someone. Why would it disturb one to such a degree when in all actuality, it is a kind gesture...showing love and concern for a fellow cave-dweller. We all do things differently, and have different beliefs, but what Jim is doing is compassionate--and I am not quite sure why that is so upsetting. I do not agree with everything on this board--but I find that very harsh. I could see if this was a nasty gesture why it would be so offensive--but I think we all know Jim well enough to know that isnt the case.
In His Name...
Hi Jim G.,
Sorry about the access issue. I closed that blog yesterday but I can open it again if you want me to. I'm glad it was helpful for you.
Let me know.
Blessings,
Jen
Mac--
I just finished reading the article on your blog...VERY informative. Thanks for sharing! It is always a lesson on here--and I am so appreciative to be connected with you all--and to use everyone's thoughts and teachings to find my way. I pray several times daily for discernment....and I am inspired and enthusiastic about my experiences in the cave. Just in the short time I have been back---doing all the reading and catching up--I feel invigorated!!! Do you all even have a clue how beautiful it is to me to get on here and get lost in your passion for Him? How thrilled He must be with the obvious determination to know Him the very best we can, and to live as He would want us to!! I thank God for all of you!!!
Marantha!!!!!!
SARA, I understand what you mean and are asking. I don't know what is happening but it has to be in the heavenlies because so many are experiencing the same thing at the same time. Now let me explain. We have physical bodies that dwell in the physical earth but we are spiritual beings in Christ. So, as a born again believer I am just as much a spirit person as I am a physical person. My Spirit man is the one who is getting stirred right now and I really don't have a clue except, I know I am to pray and seek God's face for whatever is taking place.
I think as watchmen on the wall our best defense is pray and our best offense is the Word of God. When I woke up so early this morning, I knew it was to hook up to the Cave and give Mac and Alesia encouragement and then to pray.
It helps me if I keep in front of my memories that God is able to accomplish whatever it is that he has called us to pray for but we have to pray first. My first item is always Israel, then our leaders and appointed officials, then our church and then our walk with Abba. I always save the best till the last then I can spend more time in His presence.
We have no idea what the cause of our Alarms going off means but just know that no matter what, you have the full attention of Heaven when you obey his call.
JC Chicky 23, Oh, girl it is so good seeing you back again. I agree with you too. Our Jim is a Gem and I so appreciate his care and dedication to God. We all come from different backgrounds and yet God saw fit to weave us together into one cloth for His Glory. Do you suppose we look kinda like one of those old timey quilts that we used to drag out in the winter. They were made out of worn out clothing and had everything from velvet, wool, denim, all stitched together and then cotton batting put in the inside. They were most uncomfortable and weighed a ton. All kinds of material and all roughly stitched with little yarn ties to keep it all connected to the filling. All colors, shapes and sizes and all material that was too good to throw away.
JIM, I enjoyed reading about the visions and even to the place that I got on a web site regarding prophecies that was real interesting. I will try to find it again and give you the link.
Everyone, have a great and wonderful God Day.
Grany
I know exactly what you mean about "just waiting for the other shoe to drop".
I have been feeling like most of all, I need to be spiritually prepared. Put away childish things and all of the things that may have hindered my relationship with Jesus in the past.
There is so much deception out there. I want to be drenched in the word so I recognize the TRUTH at all times.
I listened to a guy named Warren Smith on Jan Markell's radio archives lastnight. He gave alot of insight on the Emergent movement, Purpose driven movement and all of the Oprah deception going on and infilltrating our churches!
I will see if I can find the link.
Grace
Of course Jim was not being nasty!
I found this on Jack Kelleys site...I'm sure there are lots of other articles out there about this:
What About Praying To Mary And The Saints?
Ask a Bible Teacher
Q. I'm wondering what you have to say about Catholics "praying" to Mary or other saints. I understand that the first commandment tells us to have no other gods, but Catholics seem to believe they're not praying to Mary or the other saints, but somehow praying to God through them.
This also brings another question to mind of praying for someone after they've died. Is there anyplace in the bible that speaks to this?
Thanks so much for your thoughtful answer.
A. All during Old Testament times, the way to God was through the Priest. The people brought their prayers to the temple along with a sacrifice and the priests presented their prayers to God. When Jesus died the veil of separation in the Temple was torn apart, signifying that the people would no longer need an intercessor on Earth. They could now approach God directly (Ephes. 3:12)
In the New Testament, only Jesus (Rom 8:34) and the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:26) are named as intercessors for us. None others are authorized. The notion of praying to Mary or others is uniquely catholic and has no Biblical support.
The same is true about praying for the dead. It comes out of the Catholic tradition of purgatory, where according to them all believers go to pay for their remaining sins upon death. It's believed that the prayers and good works of their living loved ones can shorten their stay there. This is another non-Biblical tradition of the Catholic Church.
The single over riding purpose of our lives is to decide whether to allow the Lord's death to pay for our sins or not. We have to decide for ourselves, no one can do it for us, and we have to do it while we're still alive. Failing to decide is the same as rejecting it. At the instant of death, we're either saved or not based on that one decision, and no effort by us or anyone we've left behind can alter it thereafter. Man was destined to die once and after that to face judgment. (Hebr. 9:27)
Here is the link (minus the blue)
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/?page=7&rpp=16&so=Most%20Recent
The program I listened to was November 10,2007. The title was a discussion about the Re-think conference. There are even links for dial up listeners to use!!
Her programs are great!
Grace
Donna--we had this discussion a year ago as well, so I know where you stand on it. But that doesnt change the fact that you chose Jims example of compassion to express your disdain for the act. I just felt it was an unfortunate time to do so....
Yikes I hope that doesnt sound rude because I dont mean for it to be rude...
God Bless....
Grany!!!!!!!!!
YES! I can picture the exact blanket and I can almost feel it. In fact, if I close my eyes I truly can almost smell it! Dont laugh, but my Nana always had them folded in a trunk and when she would pull it out, it smelled of moth balls! :) It would always be so cold and heavy, so I would but it over my mouth and nose and warm it up with my breath. OR--I would stand over her heater that was in the floor, and warm it up that way. Yes, we are a blanket of many fabrics...I love it!
So nice to see you on here and read all your wisdom!!!!
xoxoxoxo
'scuse me...I would PUT it over my mouth and nose...not BUT it over my mouth and nose.
Sheesh.
I don't like rumor spreading but I wonder if it's true that Obama and his Reverand had an affair that was posted under the "Unholy Trinity" link.
And to think I might have to move back to CA. Probably just in time for the "big one" earthquake.
Here is an article clip:
"And so California is going to have a big gay-marriage fight in November. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger plans to stay out of it: "As I have said in the past, I will not support an amendment to the constitution that would overturn this state Supreme Court ruling," he said in a statement issued today. Also in favor of the court's ruling, Eskridge points out, is the possibility that high turnout for Barack Obama will help pump up the number of pro-gay-marriage voters. Obama pulls in the youth vote, and young people poll far more strongly in favor of same-sex marriage than older people do.
I had written down Part 2 of Todd Bentley's personal testimony of what he said happened when this Angel appeared to him. It was pulled yesterday-don't know if it's back up.But this is what he said-not word for word I just summed it up:
Todd Bentley describes this beam or pillar of light coming through the roof of his church and transporting him up to the 3rd Heaven. He is strapped to a table while these people perform an operation. He's paralyzed but this doesn't hurt. Then they split him open and lay his guts out beside him. They proceed to replace his guts with little white boxes. He asked them what they are doing? God reply's and says in these boxes are gifts of spiritual knowledge which would take an average person 40 years to learn. We don't have time for that now. You can use them in your Revivals.
I don't think any of us are against Angels as they are messangers of God and we also have guardian angels. (who don't talk to us) But for Mr. Bentley they are his buddies and hang around quite frequently.
Remember not only the founder of Mormonism had an angelic encounter but also Mohammad the prophet of Islam.
Jcchick- yeah great angel. Tells to to stop studing the Word and go and play like the rest of the world. I would take that as you are a threat to Satan's plans.
Morning to all ! Had to pipe in and say thanks so very much to all of you for your fellowship, wisdom, and kindness towards one another...oh, how wonderful heaven will be if this is just a glimpse into the love that waits there between believers (I tend to hear that ol' tune "blessed be the tie that binds" when I read here).
Also I loved John's and Wilma's posts from yesterday and immediately wanted to save them for sharing with friends of mine. Would that be ok with you both?
Wilma, I was up every hour last night and my heart feels so heavy I began to wonder if I was having a heart attack...I'm not :)...I know that. So I have been in constant prayer for all those people out there who do not yet know the love of Jesus ...may they know Him SOON! And also I have to share that my 6 yr old daughter asked Jesus to lead her heart and life a few days ago!!
Hey Nate !!! Thought you would like this tid bit of info....my daughter and I were watching the Way of the Master on tv and she was really into it...so I asked her some of the questions..she began to cry and then started talking of how to get to know Jesus and God better...she, a child, saw her errors already and knew she needed the Lord and His love to save her...I was awed by the whole experience!Praise God!
I agree with you all that something is coming soon...at times I find myself with the heart on fire/heavy feeling and the tears just rolling ...I often wonder if the feling is because the Lord kows some will soon be lost forever ...what a huge sadness that must be for Him.
I pray that you all have a good weekend and that we all aim for righteousness, abide in His love, and show it to everyone around us!
Listen for Him and wait... expectantly and cheerfully...and finally reast in His Love and Mercy! Hugs from a very wet VA!!
One last thing ...I have to give glory to God for keeping my babies safe this morning...my 6 and 8 yr old went to get on the bus this morning and as they went to step on the driver shut the door and drove off....they, thanks be to God , were not hit by the bus but were very frightened...so was I after the fact(from the knowledge of how it could have turned out).
See the deal at our house is girls and younger kids always on first...so the 6 yr old should have been in front...what I saw as soon as the bus pulled away was my 8 yr old son standing in front of my 6 yr old daughter holding her back but both of them looking "restrained" for a lack of better words. You mom's know what I mean ...when you put your arm out to keep the kids back and they kind of look "fenced in"...anyone know what I mean? Well, I saw no angels but I KNOW they were there protecting my little ones...and there was peace not fear, gratitude and not anger, our God is AMAZING. There was NOTHING I could have done to change that situation...once again He shows me that He will always intercede for me and my family!
Thanks for letting me share my praises this morning!!Hugs to all!
Mommyjen
I know how you feel at this moment with your daughter. My son also accepted Christ this year. It was and is a precious time for us. God is so good.
Jim
regarding the quake and disaster poll you put up-right now it looks as if California has pulled ahead in that race. I think it depends on how sucessful our meddling is in Israel and at that point I'd go more for the New Madrid quake
I have one final question to all regarding this explosively divisive subject of tongues.
If you are seeking understanding, why would you listen to (or read) any teaching from anyone who does not speak in tongues, or believe in them for today?
They do not (read cannot) know what they are speaking about - how can they - they do not personally speak in tongues, and are therefore, as Jesus said, like a blind man leading the blind - they will fall into a ditch. That is a logical, factual conclusion - not an emotional one.
As an analogy, as an trained engineer, I understand the principles of nuclear power. But I would NEVER dream of telling my neighbor, who is a Nuclear Power expert, how to do his job - he would think I was an idiot - I do not have practical, working knowledge of that domain, any more than I would expect him to be able to tell me how to design an aeroplane.
All the "accounts" presented of what tongues are (or are not), are written ALL by people who do NOT speak in tongues - yet all the accounts by those of us who do speak in tongues you do NOT accept, even when several of us have pointed out inconsistencies, or missing key biblical facts in the aforementioned "accounts" or explanations (as is the case in the information Vicky linked to - there are too many to challenge here), you ignore, get angry about, feel threatened, or feel that we are trying to make out that you are all lesser types of Christians - which is NOT true.
I am trying, in love, to explain something that I VERY strongly believe we are ALL going to NEED in the coming days, for our own mental and physical well being. I believe it is VERY Biblical, and VERY important for these days. I have seen and experienced "stuff" that I would rather not share with you guys, simply because I too am dealing with a major, major situation in my life right now, that simply put, if what I believe and know (or think I know) about God) does NOT work, I am in VERY deep water, and I need to KNOW that I know that God's Word is absolute TRUTH - ALL of it. Right now, the only way out of the current situation is a miracle - but I have seen and experienced miracles, angelic help, healings, supernatural events, most of the gifts of the Holy Spirit - I KNOW that I know that my God SHALL supply all my need (He has done so, miraculously more than once before), that He is the God who is more than enough...
Remember the chapter on Love - 1 Corinthians 13, is in the middle of, and is a part of, the subject of "spirituals" (1 Corinthians 12 - 14) - things of and pertaining to Holy Spirit. You cannot, legitimately, take that chapter out of context - it is all about how "spirituals" are to be exercised - in love.
Love you all in the Lord - you are ALL precious in God's sight.
John
Thanks jib !!! So now I've got a 4 yr old and hubby left !! May the Spirit call them soon !! Congratulations about your son...these little ones are so precious!! What joy to have them i our homes and what peace to know that they have fallen in love with our Lord!!
It was Jim's statement that struck a nerve, not Jim personally. Praying to a dead saint does not stand up to biblical truth and this should be pointed out.
Grany Wilma,
Thank you so much for the encouragement for Mac & myself. You're a wise one, I think we both needed it. (I know I did)
Please know you are such a blessing to me! You are pretty high up on my list of people I am most thankful for God bringing into my life!
Your love & compassion for us mere mortals & your love of the Lord is an example for us all & something we all should aspire to.
God bless you!
I love you all...
Kathy
Overcomer--Jim was merely expressing his intentions in lifting his fellow Christian up in prayer---the way in which he does this is obviously subject to your opinion---I just felt that in his moment of compassion he shouldnt be exposed to judgement on this board.
Bottom line---there are Catholics here, evangelicals, baptists, etc. I dont judge any of them for the way they express themselves, or pray, or speak in tongues or any of it. We all love Jesus Christ here--and I think we should all check our judgements at the door. There is only one judge.
In His name...
Jcchick,Donna,& Everyone,
Seems like many people got so riled up and mentally exausted yesterday that some are desiring a break from the tension.
Not that there is anything wrong with quoting scripture and challenging teachings.
I ran across a really great teaching from Jesus on this matter but I just marked it in my memory banks for now.
It's very difficult for some of us to be longsuffering. Especially me-it's painful. I guess that's why suffering is involved.
(I'm going to explain this but I forwarn you that Grany does this so much better than I . She's blessed with the gift of teaching)
If there is something we see clearly in scripture and try to teach but others don't understand, we have to just put it on the shoulders of our Lord. He knows what needs to be done as we are His children and He loves us. At the same time we are to be sentitive to the urging of the Holy Spirit as uses us to accomplish Kingdom work.(I have to be very Long Suffering with my husband.I just look at him and think "Lord he's in your hands. If you call on me to reach out I will otherwise I'll just be patient and suffer.Trust in your ways as for You nothing is impossible.")
This is the NASB defination of Long Suffering:
"with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love."
Ephesians 4:1-6
I ,therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling which which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with long suffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in the hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, on God and Father of all, who is above all, through all, and in you all.
2, 3. lowliness-In classic Greek, the meaning is meanness of spirit: the Gospel has elevated the word to express a Christian grace, namely, the esteeming of ourselves small, inasmuch as we are so; the thinking truly, and because truly, therefore lowlily, of ourselves [Trench].
This was out of the Jamieson-Fausset Brown Bible Commentary:
2, 3. lowliness-In classic Greek, the meaning is meanness of spirit: the Gospel has elevated the word to express a Christian grace, namely, the esteeming of ourselves small, inasmuch as we are so; the thinking truly, and because truly, therefore lowlily, of ourselves [Trench].
meekness-that spirit in which we accept God's dealings with us without disputing and resisting; and also the accepting patiently of the injuries done us by men, out of the thought that they are permitted by God for the chastening and purifying of His people (2Sa 16:11; compare Ga 6:1; 2Ti 2:25; Tit 3:2). It is only the lowly, humble heart that is also meek (Col 3:12). As "lowliness and meekness" answer to "forbearing one another in love" (compare "love," Eph 4:15, 16), so "long-suffering" answers to (Eph 4:4) "endeavoring (Greek, 'earnestly' or 'zealously giving diligence') to keep (maintain) the unity of the Spirit (the unity between men of different tempers, which flows from the presence of the Spirit, who is Himself 'one,' Eph 4:4) in (united in) the bond of peace" (the "bond" by which "peace" is maintained, namely, "love," Col 3:14, 15 [Bengel]; or, "peace" itself is the "bond" meant, uniting the members of the Church [Alford]).
Lisa--
"If there is something we see clearly in scripture and try to teach but others don't understand, we have to just put it on the shoulders of our Lord."
That statement right there is it in a nutshell. Thank you for saying what I wish I could have said from the beginning.
God Bless you---
***gasp***
The Saudi's just rejected Bush's proposal to increase oil production...
What a shocker.
Alesia, I love you too and your friendship means a great deal to me. I also love all that gather here and knowing that our love is shared here gives me much comfort. There are always going to be pitfalls but let's not anyone fall into them.
LISA, you did great and you don't need to think otherwise. We have to care enough about each other to share in honesty but never pride. You did good and I am so proud of you. I always think of Lowly as the last rung on the ladder of life. Get stepped on the most but in doing so, you give the the stepper a rung up!
MOMMYJEN, YOU BLESSED MY HEART DEAR ONE! I know you are so happy about your daughter and think about all of the prayers and concerns she has removed from your life with her new life in Christ. OH, that is great. You know, you have always had such a love for God and you have just made my heart sing so many times in the past but this song is even sweeter than before. You have made my day and I thank God for you.
Donna, I am praying for you and know that God will work it all out for your good. Remember, Love is the greatest Gift of all and it is also the best of the fruit.
Grany
John,
I hope these words in Psalm 119:160 will encourage you:
"The sum of Thy word is truth..."
Kathy
First I’d like to thank everyone for the posts here in the cave.
Most of you who know me know I don’t post much as I have a hard time putting into words what my thoughts are so pardon me if I ramble. Plus I have a tough time just trying to keep up with the posts, as this haven is very prolific.
The Cave, this place, is like a family to me, or better yet a group of church elders at different points in their walk with the Lord and from various backgrounds, I grew up as a catholic before moving to a non-denominational church many years ago, so I may understand where Jim is coming from easier than those who have never been exposed to the catholic faith. Others here are from any number of other denominations, but the fact of the matter is that we are all learning and growing from each other!
Whether you believe in tongues or not, it is a good thing to have it taught here. We should sow the seeds of knowledge to one another just as we sow the seed of faith to the un-believers. I for one knew little or nothing of it until John posted a study of it several months ago. I can’t speak in tongues but have been praying fervently for the gift ever since. The conversions have led me to research which has blessed me with additional knowledge from the Word. And as a result several folks here have received the gift and I am trilled for them, and perhaps a little jealous.
We’ve discussed many things here like the pyramids, nephillum etc. and it is up to each of us to research it and validate the subject with scripture, and our own heart. Personally I didn’t feel comfortable with the nephullum discussions, so I would just skip those posts and see what other knowledge I could glean from the cave dwellers. We should treat each other here as if we were having these discussions with our own families. I for one would speak more gently in front of my mother than a friend and colleague.
I for one believe in the gift of tongues, because Jesus said: (In Mark 16:17-18) And these attesting signs will accompany those who believe: in My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages, They will pick up serpents; and [even] if they drink anything deadly, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will get well. And that’s enough for me.
Remember we are here to edify and build up each other in knowledge and faith. I consider each of you my brother and sisters in Christ and I would gladly lay my life down for each of you.
In love of Jesus,
Mike
MommyJen,
My wife has even used the Mommy block on me before, very effective. I think that it is used in the same manner as Christ uses His rod and His staff (ps 23).
Jen,
Could you invite me in, I wasn't able to read your blog.
Granny,
Glad to see you posting again. I to have had some strange sleep patterns for the last month or so. I believe others here have mentioned it as well.
Mr Hyde/Alesia ,
I also meant to thanks you for host us.
Jim,
My votes for the New Madrid earthquake.
Back to end times talk:
Over 900 Tornadoes have struck the US so far this year
Grumpy,
how do you see things..
UN saids World Economy on thin ice
Actually, my post yesterday (when I brought up the Mary and saints thing) more had to do with trying to calm people down over what appeared to be high emotions regarding the whole tongues issue.
I was hoping to point out that we all have differences and trigger points (which is when I pointed out my trigger point of Mary and the saints) and that hopefully these differences and trigger points would not ruin the good fellowship that takes place here.
In no way shape or form was I attempting to cause any sort of discord....if anything it was the opposite!
Thanks, Grany, I really appreciate your thoughts and prayers! It really means a lot to me and we sure could use them!
"If there is something we see clearly in scripture and try to teach but others don't understand, we have to just put it on the shoulders of our Lord"
Great point, Lisa!
Gee, it sure has been a crazy time here the last couple of days!
TexasforChrist,
Thanks for the nice posts!
I had no intention of bringing up the tongue discussion ever again, but I did want to clarify something, since Texas mentioned it.
To the best of my knowledge (based on feedback from others) there is NO ONE here that does not believe in the gift of speaking in tongues.
I may be incorrect (for I don't know what every single person believes) but anyone that I was speaking for yesterday does, in fact, believe in this gift
I just wanted to make that clear.
JOhn, Thanks for your teaching. I appreciate you and will be lifting you up in spirit.
blessings
Hi everyone
Lisa and others,
I’m one of the exhausted ones. I don’t know how to describe it in words, but in the last 24 hours I’ve gone from the highest peak to the lowest valley. I’ve only felt this completely bereft 2 other times in my life and so I recognize this feeling as a form of grief. I’m through the worst of it now, but I can still barely gather my thoughts to type this. I have an overwhelming desire to just go to sleep until tomorrow when hopefully I’ll check the blog and see that everything has been a dream.
I hadn’t planned to post at all. I feel the need rather to just rest and be refreshed. But instead I went back to the website that Vicki posted yesterday and was drawn to the “About us” section. What I found in the “We Believe” section was concerning and so I kept looking. I spent some time looking over the other websites hosted by the Amazing Facts ministry and finally realized that it is a 7th Day Adventist group. I don’t know if anyone here is from that background, but what I read on their teachings about the Sabbath and particularly hell (ie: it’s not eternal and those sent there are eventually burned up because God cannot establish a perfect kingdom while sinners in Hell still exist) take a lot of leaps in Scripture in order to arrive at their beliefs. If this ministry takes leaps on a core doctrine, how is it arriving at its views on other subjects?
I think we can all agree that we need to proceed as Bereans in these days.
Blessings,
Jen
Maybe we ought to focus on some of the reassuring verses in the Bible, as it sounds like lots of folks are going through some difficult times.
Here is one I just found on a calendar I have:
"This God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Oh God, We pray that You continue to guide and teach us the way that You would have us go. We trust you completely for all things. We thank you for Your son, Jesus Christ and all that He has accomplished for Us on the cross. There is so much we don't understand. We are mere specks of sand on the beach. We put all of our trust in You. We ask that You bring us into Your rest, comfort us, guide and teach us. In Jesus name we pray, Amen.
AMEN!
nate;
It's time to look and lift your heads high as the return of our Lord Jesus is near!
Amen!
God Bless!
Philippians 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.
I miss Stacy and her long Scripture posts.
Interesting, Nate. I have noticed in the last couple days thoughts like, don't be stupid. People have always been thinking the end is coming, just go back to the way you were thinking before, when it was just an elusive idea somewhere out there, remember how much easier life was (it wasn't)...blah, blah, blah. I've rebuked that lying accuser (whose name I won't even honor by typing) a couple times.
I thought, just don't look at the blog for awhile.
But, busy as things get, here I am. I would be grieving if I stopped fellowshipping with all of you. Thank you for putting up with my sometimes crazy thoughts.
BTW, Grany! We called those quilts crazy quilts and, yes, that's just what we are, crazy in love with the Lord!!
Nate,
I too have this incredibly strong sense that something really momentous is going to happen in the world - my personal sense is for this September.
I think it has several components - one spiritual, in that I sense (know) that we on the cusp of a HUGE outpouring of God's Spirit, with many signs and wonders, and yet on the other hand a sense of something major and deeply disturbing, possibly destructive about to happen in or on the earth, that is not limited to one area or even country - I'm not sure if this would be earthquakes, storms, etc. in the natural or in the spirit realm, possibly both.
I do know that we are coming to one of the most important times in history, and we need to be prayed up and ready.
John
Kathy,
Thank you for your encouraging word.
God bless you, sister.
John
Hi All,
Jen, did you get a chance to read the article, "Understanding Tongues"? If so, what did you think about it? You can email me privately if you don't want to discuss it here.
Yes, I am a Seventh-day Adventist!
The second part of our name--"Adventist"--shows that we proclaim the second coming of Christ! That is our purpose for being.
I know you all are looking forward to that great event and that is the reason I am here...to fellowship with you as we await that day.
Yes, some of our beliefs are different, but we all love the Lord with all our hearts--I can tell from your posts--and you want to spend eternity with the One who gave everything for us. What a wonderful day that will be when we gather around the tree of life, that is by the river of life, which flows from the throne of God! Worthy, worthy is the Lamb that was slain!
Seventh-day Adventist beliefs are firmly entrenched in the Bible. In fact, we have no creed BUT the Bible.
I don't feel this is the time to get into a discussion on the Sabbath or hell, but if anyone wants to discuss these topics or the beliefs of the SDA church, please feel free to email me privately and I will be happy to explain them to you.
Thanks for making room for me here. I see the love you all have for each other and I'm glad you have a cave where we can hang out.
Happy Sabbath!
Vicki
Hello Brothers and Sisters,
While we discuss/dialog back and forth about differences in interpretations of God's Word, there are many others who deny the very existence of God Himself. Thankfully, there are many who know assuredly that God exists, because we know God Himself for we know His Son Jesus Christ...and 'to know Jesus Christ is to know His Father God.'
Scientists, Theologians Debate Whether God Exists
Blessings! (Mary)
I am still scratching my head and wondering what in the world is going on with me. I was awakened at 1 a.m. this day, spent most of the day doing our bi-weekly shopping in Ft. Smith and I am still going strong with vim and vigor; it is now 10:30 p.m. But the interesting thing about all of this is, I am still very much aware of the Holy Spirit urging me to prayer. What Nate and John said really set the fire ablaze again. While in Ft. Smith, my husband went to the airport where the Air Force Thunderbirds were practicing for their air show tomorrow and Sunday. Enroute to Sam's Club, we saw 8 jet propelled helicopters approaching the air field in formation and the sound was horrible. As we got closer they seemed to take up the whole sky and I couldn't help but be reminded of the terror that takes place when air strength represented by these machines comes on the scene. But my point is simple; it didn't seem to tie in with any of my stirrings of late.
I believe what we are experiencing is a battle in the heavenlies and considering all of the people the Lord is stirring, I would say it is a big battle. One of the Bible verses that keeps coming to mind is "if one can put a thousand to flight and two, ten thousand, what can 500 do". I am not sure the location in our New Testament but that just keeps coming back at me. If all of us keep up the prayer vigil, we enable the victory to proceed.
I will find that passage and get the references for you.
Anne, I couldn't remember the name of the quilt but didn't they itch when they were made out of harsh wool? I remember the moth balls stinking too. We always had a cedar closet to store things in but for certain results the moth balls were the choice. Oh, I hate that smell to this day.
I am going to try to wind down so I can get some sleep. Butjust in case, MAC and all of you other night owls, keep the cave light on for me!
Love to all of you,
Grany
Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow
Does the Palestinian cause fuel terrorism?
The Skeletons of Obama
Good night, Grany. Sleep tight..
Good night Mac!
Grany
Thought you might enjoy reading this one from our beloved Ray Stedman.
www.raystedman.org/warfare/warfare1.html
Todd Friel Answers Rick Warren on Way of the Master
Thanks, Grany. Looks like I'm going to have to get Hyde into gear soon.
MAc,
I've got it covered - if you don't mind.
I don't know about mac but I certainly don't mind, my dear. I'll just attend to some other pressing matters. Thank you for that :-)
Oops, sorry I addressed Mac when I should have spoken to Mr Hyde.
I just keep disrespecting that poor man! hahaha.
Listening to that crazy Rick Warren link right now. tsk, tsk - bad!
OK, we need 2 more comments - so I can make a new post. Any takers?
interesting link about Rick Warren
ok 150
Knew I could count on you JIB!
New post is up.
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