"While we may not be called to martyr our lives, we must martyr our way of life. We must put our selfish ways to death and march to a different beat. Then the world will see Jesus."
~Michael Tait of DC Talk~
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148 comments:
First time!
HB
good for you!
wait until Lisa gets back and we can tell her she won the gold :-)
Kathy, Overcomer, Katherine Hall checking in and saying hi! I'm buried in wedding pics, shooting my third wedding of the month tomorrow. It's been fun though.
Good lesson in your post, Alesia.
Alesia, Shalom! With your post, I wanted to post two related links:
India mourns- Hindu right wing murder and mutilation of Catholic priest 18 August
"38 year old Fr. Thomas Pandippallyil, was assassinated on the night of August 16th on his way to a village to celebrate Sunday mass. His body showed signs of torture, with wounds to his face, his hands and legs broken and his eyes pulled from their sockets. The bishop of Hyderabad denounces the growing climate of “violence against Catholics” in the country."
FWIW, attacks aren't limited to Catholics. About a year and a half ago, an Australian minister and his two sons were burned alive while they were sleeping in their car. An average of 4 attacks on Christians occur every week in India.
Underground Catholics defy police ban, celebrate mass with their bishop
"More than a thousand underground Catholics defied police controls to meet in a church in Wuqiu (Hebei) to celebrate mass ... For the Olympics public security officers warned Catholics in the diocese not to celebrate the mass in Wuqiu cathedral. Prelates and priests were placed instead under house arrest ... The police even built a small house in front of the bishop’s residence just to monitor him ... "
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Nate,
You wrote:
I just hope that we are out of here on time!
I bet the Lord will take us home at the perfect time!
Mac and Alesia,
What are the protocols for inviting someone to the cave? There's a good brother that I'd love to have visit here but I do know you want to be careful in light of what happened at Joel's.
Jim G. - Mac & I are talking right now...
If you vouch for him, good enough for us.
Please just ask him not to give the address out.
Mac & Alesia
I stumbled across this news item a few days ago. Couldn't recall if Lori or anyone else had provided a link.
Matt. 6:19-21
Former IMF Economist Predicts “Whopper” U.S. Bank Failure, Says Global Financial Crisis Set to Get Much Worse
OK. I will. Thank you.
His name is Sal. I've known him since about 1980. He's a solid brother.
Another Aussie brother in Christ who likes caves!
Christian Concepts
The Cavern Of Life
(an analogy of our relationship with God)
This is a good (and short) article about how there can be so many different doctrinal viewpoints and denominations and yet we all love and serve the same Lord. I think our fellowship at the cave is testimony to the truth of what is said in this article.
Of course, that is not to say that holding to a certain core set of doctrines or belonging to any particular church makes one reconciled to God. Only God's grace through faith in Christ has that power.
Anointed Christian Links
I also love the ACL guidelines he has for folks who wish to submit links.
Kathy, I hope you were using a camera to do that shooting.
Cavern of life was good... and appropriate for this site.
Thanks Jim G
Our church will be meeting in its own building for the first time this morning. We've been meeting in a school for 11 years.
Actually, it was exactly 11 years ago today that Calvary Chapel Jupiter had their first service at the school. How appropriate that we just got our C.O. last week so we could have services today.
Please pray for our parking situation. The church is situated in a supermarket parking lot with other businesses.
Thanks and y'all be happy and full of joy. This is the day that the Lord has made, rejoice and be glad in it. YeeeeeeeeeHAAAAAAAAAAA!
Thanks for the smile Mac.
Today's wedding is supposed to happen outside and it is supposed to rain. Please pray the Lord holds it off until after 9pm this evening!
Jim G,
Amen to your 8.23.08 10:50pm comment!
Lori,
So excited for you and your church family!
I need to go clean my guns... =)
Lori, YeeeeeHaaaaa back at ya! You would make a dandy Okie by the way. Congratulations on your own building for church; I know that it means a lot to have a building you can call yours alone. In the meantime, I will be praying that the parking situ becomes a non-problem.
I enjoyed that article too Jim G. And the Whooping big bank failure is something I am really hoping doesn't become a reality. My son-in-law is very much involved in finances and he is fully convinced that it will happen. ONE thing the credit mess has accomplished is the volume of junk mail coming into our homes every single day.
We used to receive at least 5 letters every day from someone wanting to issue us a special credit card and the limits allowed made me very nervous. Most of them were pre-approved and they were pre-approved for shredding. We got to the place that we burned them instead of shredding just because of the volume. I hope that type of thing never gets repeated in our lifetime.
Well, it is off we go to church so you all have a wonderful Sunday and
Listening for the shout,
Grany
Well, if there were any problems with parking, we didn't see them. Everything seemed to go smoothly. We pack the joint and there were folding chairs and a few standing in the back... God be glorified!
Oooooh, There's a bright golden haze on the meadow, there's a bright golden haze on the meadow. And the corn is as high as an elephants eye, and I think that its growing clear up to the sky....
Oh what a beautiful morning, Oh what a beautiful day, I've got a beautiful feeling... (here's where the words change) Jesus is coming today!
Lori, oh,, yes! Do Come Quickly Lord!
What a wonderful Sunday morning witness Lori and a packed church is the best crowd control you can find on the face of the earth.
There is just this feeling going through me that it won't be long now and I am getting yancy! You know what that means: you can't sit still one second and I keep looking out the window but I have no idea what I am looking for. Just know it can't be long now!
Grany
Just had to share what Denver is telling it's readers regarding the DNC confab about to start:
"Convention interfaith event announced
By Electa Draper
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 08/08/2008 04:06:55 PM MDT
The Democratic National Convention Committee today announced the program for its first-ever interfaith gathering, which kicks off at 2 p.m. Aug. 24 at Wells Fargo Theater in the Colorado Convention Center.
Keynote speakers include Bishop Charles Blake, presiding prelate of Church of God in Christ Inc. and pastor at the West Angeles cathedral in Los Angeles; Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America; social activist Sister Helen Prejean, author of "Dead Man Walking"; and Rabbi Tzvi Weinreb, executive vice president of the Orthodox Union.
Grammy-award-winning gospel artist Richard Smallwood & Vision and Denver's The Spirituals Project will perform the music. The program also will feature readings from diverse religious texts.
"Democrats have been, are, and will continue to be people of faith — and this interfaith gathering is proof of that," said DNCC chief executive Leah Daughtry, herself a Pentecostal pastor.
Colorado Gov. Bill Ritter is scheduled to address the event, along with local clergy, including Imam Abdur-Rahim Ali of the Northeast Denver Islamic Center, Rabbi Steven Foster of Congregation Emmanuel, the Rev. Lucia Guzman, Buddhist Kathryn Ida and Democratic leader Polly Baca.
The event is free and open to the public but requires tickets. They are available by visiting demconvention.com/interfaith, e-mailing InterFaith@demconvention.com, or calling 720-362-2520.
Community groups wishing to reserve blocks of tickets should fax requests on organization letterhead to 202-572-7817. Reserved tickets can be picked up at DNCC offices, 1560 Broadway, Suite 400, in Denver starting Aug. 15.
The Democratic Party launched its Faith in Action initiative almost four years ago and has said its commitment to people of faith will be showcased at the convention.
and this is what a very neat blogger had to say about it:
" DNC Interfaith Event Reaches Out to the Muslim Brotherhood
by Baron Bodissey
The love-feast is about to begin in Denver. The Democratic National Convention will convene beginning on Monday to anoint The One We’ve Been Waiting For as their candidate for President of the United States.
Before the convention proper begins, a small prodromal event has been arranged for tomorrow to create the right mood among the party faithful. It’s billed as an “interfaith event”, the progressive equivalent of a tent revival, and a host of stars has been invited to rouse the crowd with that New-Time Religion."
I got that from this link:
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/
Wow! And many of them shout out for church to stay out of politics!
getting weirder all the time....
Are you participating in The Wave? That's the shout out for Jesus on the Feasts of Trumpets.
I'm going to try to get the day off.
Jim G. - Thanks so much for those links - very good!
Lori, you know I am! I can't blow a shofar but i can sure shout with the best of them. I hope and pray that someone will take a shofar to the top of the ruins at the site where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found and blow it long and hard at the very top. Here is a little interesting tidbit about it:
The Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in eleven caves along the northwest shore of the Dead Sea between the years 1947 and 1956. The area is 13 miles east of Jerusalem and is 1300 feet below sea level. The mostly fragmented texts, are numbered according to the cave that they came out of. They have been called the greatest manuscript discovery of modern times." Now normally you would want to blow the shofar at the highest level but at this location there are many caves and revines that tend to carry the sounds over and over and over and over, well you get the picture. We stood on one slope, and shout "The Lord God is One God and there is None Like Him" and it was still echoing when we finally got loaded back into our buses.
Then you could also take the shofar up into the Wilderness area that lays between Jerusalem and the Galilee region and achieve the same thing. But there are areas at four different directions that would also do the same thing and then Jerusalem would be completely bathed in the sound of the blasts coming out. In the area where Jesus taught the Beatitudes the sound carries from the lower regions up to the top of the hills because of the air flow. Our guide, Shep, went down to the lower level to demonstrate and this very precious Jewish man, began to recite the scriptures to us. He began at Matthew 5 verses 3 thru 12 and not one word was unheard. It was as though he stood right at our elbows.
On the hill at the top of the spot where tradition says Jesus preached the beatitudes, there is a memorial chapel that has each one of the topics engraved on a mural. It is one of the most visited and revered spots in Israel. But the fact that you could hear Shep reciting the passages all over the area was absolutely incredible.
Just wanted to share a little bit of Israel with all of you.
Grany
What Saddleback's Pastor Really Thinks About Politics
So why is most of the press under the impression that Rick Warren, a Southern Baptist, is so different from, say, Focus on the Family president James Dobson? "It's a matter of tone," says an amused Mr. Warren, who seems unable to name any particular theological issues on which he and Mr. Dobson disagree.
Hey Granny,
Interesting info about the spot the beatitudes were preached. Who better than the maker of all to use the best outdoor acoustic spot to preach from?
Jenny and I have had a strong feeling of something big coming soon. I am very curious as Rosh Hoshannah (sp?) comes near. I actually fasted (and prayed as much as possible for a dad of young kids) for about 18 hours after reading Jerry Golden's post Friday. Did any of you notice how his concerns mirrored some of the dreams people were having last year? Interesting.
Here's another one.
What's the "hook" for Gog? When I lived on the Texas coast I did a LOT of fishing, and setting a hook on a big fish involves letting it run a bit with the hook before it's set. Setting the hook usually involves a strong tug at a precise angle and a direction change for the fish.
So, here's a thought..... Russia as we know now has a lot of military gear in Georgia (Magog, according to Hal Lindsay), which is now supposedly moving back north. What if something happened with Syria or Lebanon to make them turn around and focus on Israel? Might be the Great Fisherman just set the hook....
As always, I look forward to meeting you all face to face soon.
In His Grip,
Scott
Shalom, all! This was a big deal a few months ago, and I thought you'd like to see the results:
International MONOPOLY Edition
This is where people voted for which world cities would make it to the final board. There was controversy because "Jerusalem" was listed as being in Israel, and the Palestinians protested, so it was just changed to "Jerusalem." Jerusalem did make the final list, in the yellow group. I think I might actually buy this.
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This article from columnist Peggy Noonan was good. In particular, her comments I put in bold below:
The Rick Warren debate mattered. Why? It took place at exactly the moment America was starting to pay attention. This is what it looked like by the end of the night: Mr. McCain, normal. Mr. Obama, not normal. You've seen this discussed elsewhere. Mr. McCain was direct and clear, Mr. Obama both more careful and more scattered. But on abortion in particular, Mr. McCain seemed old-time conservative, which is something we all understand, whether we like such a stance or not, and Mr. Obama seemed either radical or dodgy. He is "in favor . . . of limits" on late-term abortions, though some would consider those limits "inadequate." (In the past week much legal parsing on emanations of penumbras as to the viability of Roe v. Wade followed.)
As I watched I thought: How about "Let the baby live"? Don't parse it. Just "Let the baby live."
Go, Peggy!
I just got the most gut wrenching call from family. My sister and her husband found his 20 year old son, Eric, dead. He apparently was getting his insulin ready to take and didn't make it. Please pray for Leal (his dad), Michelle (his sister) and Lisa, my sister.
Leal lost Eric's mother to cancer and now his son is dead from diabetes. He needs to feel God's love more now than ever.
Lori, I am so very sorry to hear this devestating and heartbreaking news.
My heart and prayers go out to your sister, her husband, their daughter, family, friends and all of you.
I hope and pray they can all get thru this, that your nephew is in heaven and that He will come back ASAP!
YOu will all remain in my thoughts and prayers.
Asking the "Why" Question by Greg Laurie
This is Greg's latest article concerning the recent death of his son, Christopher.
I am so sorry to her this tragic news, Lori. I'm praying for the family.
Lori, my prayers and my heart's cry are with you and for your families.
What a tragic thing to happen to Leal.
Love and all my support I send to you,
Grany
Oh, Lori, I'm so sorry for your loss. You, your sister, her husband and family are in my prayers.
Oh Lori, my heart & prayers go out to you & your family. Very sad - I'm so sorry.
Amen, Nate!
Jib, What gold?
Lori, my sympathies. I will be keeping Leal and his family in my prayers.
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Loss and Possession, death and life are one,
There falls no shadow where there shines no sun.
Hilaire Belloc (1870-1953), "For a sundial"
Lori,
I am so sorry and wanted to offer my condolences.
Lisa, glad to see you back! If you check out the previous blog posting, you'll see that some people got busy, and made some statistics re: number of postings and some-such.
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Jim C.
Does that mean I should turn around and get back on the plane?
Speaking of plane-You would have laughed @ the scene in the SD airport.
The girls were playing with a couple kids (brother/sister) in front of our seat on the plane ride to SD. I think their grandpa was w/them and their dad was in Iraq.
When we got to the baggage claim these kids both sat on the ground and struck the Lotus Yoga pose- Hummmm,Hummmm.
Lorraine the eldest-freaked out and held her hands in front of her face and told them she would not look at them if they did that.
When they asked why she told them that they would be possessed by demons by doing yoga.
As several heads turned to see who said that - I had to correct her statement by saying it's not that they would be possessed but that yoga can open yourself up to demons when people become very involved w/it.
I felt like a huge spotlight was glaring at us in the baggage claim.
Nate,
Thanks for posting the Revival Hymn. I know I've seen it before but it is EXCELLENT and worth reposting even if it was posted here at the cave before.
For those of you here who haven't seen it and don't have time to watch the whole thing, the portion that begins at 14:07 and ends at 18:30 is particularly good.
Also, the last part beginning at 33:37 tells the story of two young Moravian missionaries. Very powerful testimony. WOW!!!
Now that I think about it, maybe I saw the video posted at Andrew Strom's website before.
Anne, Shalom! Yesterday at 10:35 AM you wrote
[Bishop] Giuseppe Germano Bernardini, a 72-year-old Italian who is archbishop of Izmir, Turkey, wrote the Synod of European Bishops on October 13, 1999, that Muslims have a "clear program of expansion and re-conquest" of Europe. He then called on the pope to convene a special Vatican meeting to find a common strategy toward Muslims living in Christian countries. You then asked if I knew if the "special Vatican meeting" had ever happened.
I haven't found any mention of such a meeting, and I doubt very much that I would. This is something that would not be discussed in public, in any quotable manner, by any Vatican official. The last thing, the very absolute last thing, that the Vatican wants is to give anyone reason to say that the Pope is calling for a new Crusade against the infidel Mohammedans.
This is something that would be discussed behind closed doors, though, and discussed quite thoroughly. Every five years, each bishop in the world is required to make what's called an "ad limina" ("to the threshold") meeting with the Pope. These are arranged on a regional basis -- for example, in June of this year the 14 bishops of Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei made their visit. Each bishop had a one-on-one meeting with the Pope, as well as individual and group meetings with various "Dicasteries" (departments of Vatican government). The purpose is to let people exchange information so that all the bishops have an idea of what is happening with other bishops around the world.
This question of "a common strategy toward Muslims living in Christian countries" is just the sort of thing that would be discussed during an ad limina visit. The contents of the meetings are understood to be confidential. Any number of topics can be discussed without any bishop worrying about being approached in the airport at home by a reporter with questions reflecting a gross distortion of what the reporter thinks he heard the bishop might have said. (Or even worse, being approached by his government's "Office for Religious Harmony" with those same questions.)
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Nate, Shalom! That bit about blowing the ram's horn was powerful. What may have been even better was a linked video:
Opening A Garage Door "The Jewish Way"
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Jim G.
Those are some statistics! And I would have to get the "gold". How embarrassing is that?
Blabber,Blabber,Blabber.
In my non-blog life I don't even talk that much (that is unless the topic of Christianity is brought up). Must be a repressive communication issue.
Speaking again of issues:
You know how you pray for the Holy Spirit to clean out the closet-dust out the cob-webs? The other issues that should be dealt w/but you may not even know they need dealing with?
Today I picked up a book in the Christian store called:
"UNCHRISTIAN AMERICA", by Michael Babcock."Living with faith in a nation that was never under God."
I started it on the plane and am about 1/2 way through. (Alesia-I've been thinking about you-hint.hint.)So far, So good.
It's a very timely read being so close to elections and how we can get so involved in the political candidates,etc...
As we get wrapped up in all of this something here to consider on page 81,82.
"The Roman Empire was at the height of its power when Jesus delivered the Sermon on the Mount. Roman propagandists were busy peddling their nationalistic myth of destiny & material progress-all of which was embodied in the Eternal City built on 7 hills. But none of this impressed Jesus. His city would be built in the hearts of people. His city would not be built by Trojan refugees or the representatives of the Massachusetts Trading Company or religious conservatives electing the "right people" to Congress. His city would be built by the progress of the gospel.
What does Jesus have to offer in place of the worldly utopias of Rome,Marx, & America? Sacrifice & self denial. Jesus disappointed many of His followers when He preached that the kingdom of God would be established in the hearts of people through repentance."We were hoping,"said Cleopas on the road to Emmaus,"that it was He who was going to redeem Israel"(Luke 24:21)-the One, that is, who would throw off the yoke of Roman bondage. But even when throngs were cheering Him in the streets, Jesus refused to improvise a political solution for the world's problems. He refused the temptation of a political career & opted instead for the lonely task of doing His Father's will, even when that meant dying on a cross. Jesus asked His Father to remove the cup from Him, but there was no other way for God's work to be done. There was no political solution for our sin.
Nor did Jesus turn to the world's resources once the Cross was behind Him.When commissioning the 12 to go out & "make diciples of all nations," Jesus armed them not with swords but with the power of the Holy Spirit. History bears witness to the remarkable fact that Christainity grew & spread not by the force of arms(as Islam did) but by believers who lived like cities on a hill in the neighborhoods and alleyways of the Roman Empire. Christ entrusted the gospel to us & empowered us with His Holy Spirit. That's all He gave us, which means that we,like the early Christians, will just have to make do.
These early Christians were bombarded by propaganda about the Eternal City of Rome, but it didn't sway them-at least not before the time of Constantine in the early 4th century. They didn't compromise their belief that salvation belongs to the Lord,not to the legions of Rome. After ("By this sign you will conquer."), things changed,of course. The mission of the church was compromised. But before Constantine started conquering people in Christ's name, the early Christians had lived quiet lives marked by faith and obedience to God. They were good citizens, which is a point made repeatedly in the writings of the church fathers, but they never forgot that "our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Saviour,the Lord Jesus Christ"(Phil 3:20). Christians of every age are to exchange the contraditions of our national myths for the clarity we find in Jesus Christ. Either we can embrace a false mythology that is ultimately destructive to the cause of the gospel or we can reawaken ourselves to the great commission that Christ gave to no nation but to the church-a divine mandate to make disciples of all nations and all peoples.
This was obviously another case of not testing the spirits:
More on Constantine & Sun worship"Constantine's conversion to Christianity has generated much discussion. In later years he told the historian Eusebius that before his encounter with Maxentius he had seen a cross of light superimposed on the sun with the inscription above it: in hoc signo vinces (in this sign you shall conquer). Since the cross was the Christian symbol, he had his troops inscribe the monogram of Christ on their shields before the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, and his subsequent success in battle convinced him that he had the protection of the Christian god. Theretofore Constantine had probably been a worshiper of the Unconquered Sun, and in the beginning he appears to have thought that Christ and the Sun were identical. Constantine's coinage for some time continued to celebrate the Sun, and as late as 321 his order for the observation of Sunday gave as a reason that the day was solemnized "by the veneration of the Sun."
Relax! The End is Near!
Welcome back, "Goldie".
Welcome back, Lisa.
"UNCHRISTIAN AMERICA", by Michael Babcock."Living with faith in a nation that was never under God." I started it on the plane and am about 1/2 way through. (Alesia-I've been thinking about you-hint.hint.)
Me no understand. What, was it written by a crazy conservative?
Morning, all!
Lori, I am so sorry to read of your family's tragedy. Know that I did and will continue to pray for everyone involved. I think Nate said it well...an extra measure of Grace.
Mac, thanks so much for the Relax link...it was truly meant for my husband and me as we are dealing with the need to rely completely and to the point of insanity (in the world's eyes) on the Lord in the coming months. I'm ahead of him in the 'peace that passes understanding' department so I'm hoping this article will be an encouragement for him and us. Chock full of good reminders!
Blessings,
Jen
Lori, so sorry to hear about your nephew. Will be praying for your whole family.
HB
Alesia,
The author is an evangelical Christian & a professor. His parents became missionaries and he came back to the US from Africa in 1976. He said he had left Africa behind only to find himself in an all-white school operated by an all-white church.” As a teenager suddenly reintroduced into American culture, I was becoming acquainted with a 2nd strain of American conservatism, one rooted in the Old South & it's social & religious conservatism."
So far I can't pin him down to a political title.
Since I had been reading about the Illuminati & Masonic influence in American history-it has occurred to me that "America" may not have been founded on "Christian values" as much as we are led to believe.
Those two influences are definitely present in our founding fathers (and beyond) and the spirit behind them is apparently not "Holy." Satan is the prince & power of the air so naturally he may be the reason behind this contradiction.
We always hear about "America was founded by Christian Fathers" & "It's based on Christianity"." We are loosing our Christian Nation" "Evangelicals need to take back America."
Oh really? The author does a good job of exposing what the founding fathers were really about.(He does not mention the Illuminati or Masonic influence aspect-it's a completely different perspective)
He proposes that America was never Christian to begin with so there is nothing to take back. "The answer is to drop our political mask altogether so the world can see instead the face of Christ."
The author is always pointing back to the Word of God. Back,back,back to the Word. Back to Christ.
If Republicans & Democrats did not associate with a political identity but instead only associated with abiding in Christ-how different would we really be?
Would we not all be focused on the Kingdom of God, in Christ?
...."The American continent was a blank slate on which modern man (a "new Adam," as depicted in classic American literature)would write a brand-new narrative of independence,self-reliance,and material prosperity. This narrative was often framed within the vocabulary of Christian thought, but it was a humanistic project from the very beginning. Humanism is the religion of the modern age, and the seeds of this humanism were planted in the New World when the shining city was chartered."
"In a sense, America was never ours to lose."
Here is my final excerpt but the book is really worth reading.
“In truth, "secular progressives" have been winning for much longer than the past 50 years. Christians have been losing the cultural battle for a very long time-since the beginning of the modern age. We'd be drawing the wrong lesson from the "long defeat”, however, if we completely disengaged from the world as though there is nothing left worth fighting for. Rather, we have been given a prophetic role, like Noah of old, to preach righteousness to our age whether anyone listens to us or not. And we must pick our fights carefully, taking our cue from the victory Christ won at the Cross. The Cross always brings us back to the beginning, back to Genesis, back to the factory settings of life & truth-the very values that were under attack at the Garden of Eden and are under attack today in a post-Christian America."
I don't take him as being "Anti-American" in any fashion. He's just "all for Christ." By considering his Biblical perspective on America & politics-it's somewhat "freeing" in a sense.
Personally this gay agenda & marriage has topped me off. It's the straw that's broke my back. I'm not a gay hater but to have this garbage shoved down my throat can really get me going.
If I dwell on this garbage I'll go nuts. I'm afraid it's here to stay so instead of becoming distracted by it (as Satan would love us to) it's in our best interest to cling to Christ.
The more these PC issues become accepted & main stream-the more we'll be hated for the message of the gospel.
"As in the days of Noah"-that's us folks.
They are going to laugh & jeer as we sound the gospel warnings and build up our ark of spiritual protection in the Word.
The rest will sit on the fence of compromise. One foot in Christianity & the other in the world. Trying to be accepted & not loose influence. Only to be swept away with the rest of them.
Joel has a new post up.
He will be on Glenn Beck tonight discussing Georgia and his Epicenter update.
Lori,
I will be adding my prayer, of God's peace and comfort, for you and your family, in your time of loss.
Lisa,
You may be interested in reading, Pagan Christianity, by Frank Voila and George Barna. It explores the roots of our Church practices. You'll find that most of what present-day Christians do in Church each Sunday is rooted, not in the New Testament, but in pagan cultures and rituals developed long after the death of the apostles. There is extensive footnotes that document the origins of our modern church practices.
(from the back cover)
"the authors uncover the problems that emerge when the church functions more like a business organization than the living organism it was created to be. As you consider Christ's revolutionary plan for His church--to be the head of a fully fuctioning body in which believers play an active role--you'll be challenged to decide wheather you can ever do church the same way again."
It's a thought provoking book. I would encourage everyone to check it out. It's deffinitely an eye opener.
Lori
my condolences for your family at this time. God does not call on us not to grieve but only that we do not grieve as those who have no hope. Even Christ grieved over the death of a dear friend even though He knew He was going to raise him from the dead. interesting isn't it.
on the yet more bad news front-for those of you who travel if you have stayed at a Best Western or booked a room online within the last year (2007-2008) your personal information MAY have been stolen. see here for details.
on the good news front one of our nephews was baptized last night-he became a Christian within the last year and since he and his family go to a megachurch and he is somewhat shy or at least self conscious this was a major to do for him in more ways than one.
second bit of good news-our pastor has been preaching those unity sermons because people have been coming up to him and requesting that he pull our church out of the confessing movement which he disagrees with! this is a real answer to prayer for us since we were concerned that he might be going off on a liberal bent. He is well aware that most of his congregation happens to be former southern batpist (long story there). He was teasing me about his upcoming sermons on the 7 churches in Revelation since he knows that regarding eschatology I am Baptist to my core :-) it shall be interesting but I m definitely pleased that it appears we won't having to find a new church anytime soon.
I think someone already posted this article European Union: Beast or Best Friend? by Rodrigo Silva
That senario does make sense but I'm still stuck on what Gog/Magog would do to that region if it happens before the Trib. Could those nations rise again to such power in 3.5 years?(unless there is a larger time lapse) Also-look what is happening to the UK. Islam seems to be taking over right now.
He is right about other nations coming to attack the Anti-Christ.
And-who will those nations be?
Will they not implement "the mark"?
We already see the European nations in the RFID business.
Is it @ one time "global" THEN the nations turn against the AC after he makes his claims?
Hummmm.
Thanks Marge, I'll check that out.
I had actually been praying about some clarification on the Sabbath issue as I read way too many things and get myself confused at times. So today Mac's "Relax" link-linked this article on the Sabbath. Read the whole thing-it's really quite good.
Jesus is our Sabbath Rest
..."The shadow-sabbath ended at the cross, as Paul has made clear. The next day was the day of resurrection, the day when the Lord Jesus came from the tomb. On that day a new day began -- the Lord's day. Christians immediately began to observe the Lord's day on the first day of the week. They ceased observing the Sabbath because it was ended by the fulfillment of its reality in the cross, and they began to observe the first day of the week. This is what you find reflected in the book of Acts. Justin Martyr, who writes from the 2nd century, says,
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, when he changed the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ, our Savior, on the same day, rose from the dead.
A fifth fact about this: Though this shadow-sabbath, i.e., Saturday observance, ended at the cross, the true sabbath, the rest of God, God's ceasing from effort, continued and still continues today. That sabbath, in its application to us, is defined for us in Hebrews 4, Verses 9 and 10:
So then, there remains a sabbath rest for the people of God [it is available to us now]; for whoever enters God's rest also ceases from his labors as God did from his. (Hebrews 4:9-10) "
Lisa
funny that you should mention gay marriage etc. my alma mater is going through a bad time right now over theology-seems post modernism has crept in. Soulforce-a gay group-was allowed on campus and apparently they brought with them several alumni who were gay. I was shocked since I went to school with at least 3 of them. I went to the gay alumni website and just wept. They are all convinced that "God made them this way", "they asked for deliverance and since God didn't provide it their lifestyle must be ok", and they all still consider themselves committed Godly Christians. I really don't get it. How can you be that deeply involved with sin and think God is with you. I had a stretch of my life when I was far from God and I KNEW that it was not ok with God and at that point didn't really care. How can this be. Are they so blinded by Satan?
If you note the sins that are considered abominations by God they all have to do with 2 areas-our spiritual image and our relationship with God. Proverbs 6:16-19 says
"These six things the Lord hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren." Since we are created in the image of God anything that further mars or distorts that image would be an abomination I think to God. Each of those above actions do in some fashion mars or distorts that image.
God has a lot to say in both the OT and NT about sexual sins which isn't really all that surprising. In the OT God likens his relationship with Israel to a marriage and in the NT God likens our relationship as the corporate church in several places as the bride of Christ. Our most intimate relationship is supposed to reflect or at least image our corporate relationship with God. Sexual sins again distort and mar this. again an abomination.
Regarding the whole premise of the book. there was a time when the founding fathers were considered Christians outright-there are apparently a number of letters in which George Washington expresses deep faith. But modern society had to re-write this because it didn't fit with the image they wanted so we were then taught that they were just deist's and not really men of faith. and now some Christians want to make them out as devil worshiping conspirators for a global government go figure. Whether our society was Christian or not, I disagree with his premise that we aren't to do or say anything about it. We are called to be salt as well as light. Salt was used in those days as a preservative-not just to flavor food. So what are we to be salt to-I would submit that we are to be salt for our culture and society and act as a preservative. When most refer to "as in the days of Noah" usually they are referring to sin but lets face it- that depends on how one interprets the whole Nephilium issue. If you think the phrase "sons of God" refers to Seth's' line then yes it just refers to sin, if you think that the phrase "sons of God" refers to fallen angels sin is the least of the issue for "as in the days of Noah". I personally have been converted to the "fallen angels" group because it makes more sense that God would destroy every living thing because of contamination of humanity with non human genetic material.
The writer of Ecclesiastes does say that there is nothing new under the sun as far as behaviors go so if we think that sinful behavior is the only thing meant by "as in the days of Noah" just how bad is it going to get? can any of us really conceive of a world THAT sinful? I mean what could they possibly have been doing?
not to reopen the whole osas debate but I did stumble across this yesterday after I had read the "testimonies" of those I went to school with and it was VERY thought provoking in relationship to it. I present it as INFORMATION only and not to debate it nor will I debate it.
this is from the "blue letter bible" site on the origin of sayings not found in the Bible.
"First of all, slogans like "Once Saved, Always Saved" are always regrettable because they polarize an issue, causing them to be touted or denounced vehemently not on the basis of truth as truth is, but only as it is represented in the stark world of sloganeering.
Take for instance, the present slogan—Once Saved, Always Saved. This is based upon the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints, but skews the doctrine by only representing a portion of its teaching. In fact, the slogan doesn't give us enough information to properly judge its merits. As well, the slogan is tautological in its simplicity, so that in being inherently true on its face, it is unable to say anything of value. One might as well say, "Once one has eternal life, he shall always have eternal life." This is obvious by the very definition of eternal life; and so, the slogan teaches us nothing of value. It is likely that this slogan (like most slogans) was created for a very particular purpose, but has long since (again, like most slogans) outgrown that purpose.
Instead, let's look at the doctrine to which the slogan makes reference.
When we speak of the perseverance of the saints, we are, in the first place, speaking not of any power within the grasp or intention of men who believe but rather of the strength of God's own redemptive and recreative work. Because men are saved by grace and not works, the sinful works of men are no great obstacle if God wishes to recreate a man into the image of his Son. The effect of Christ's blood in redemption is complete. So powerful is the blood of Christ that all sins of those that God ordains it to cover are washed in their entirety. As well, when God deems to recreate a man in the image of Christ, he begins the creative work and is faithful to complete it in his time despite the work's potential inclinations to the opposite.
When we speak of perseverance, we are really speaking of God's faithfulness rather than man's. As well, we are not speaking of any statement or decision a man could make. Part of the flaw in the slogan's respect is the preponderance of the contemporary understanding of being "saved." While salvation is a very biblical notion and Scripture does point out that man must be saved, believers too often view this as an effect of a profession of faith rather than the result of God's work of grace. The distinction is palpable. Obviously, anyone can make a profession of faith and live for a time with external evidence of the work of redemption in their lives and yet still be without the work of grace. Though, we might refer to them in our ignorance as the saved, they are anything but. Their profession and life are counterfeits of the life of the honestly saved. The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints declares that those who are of this kind were never recipients of the persevering work of God's grace, were not sealed by the Holy Spirit, and did not receive at anytime the cleansing, redemptive, and recreative work of Christ.
The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints maintains that those who overcome the world—those who abide in Christ—until they die and are taken up to heaven are the saved. They are the ones who persevere. Any who do not persevere simply were not saved for they did not experience the saving grace of God, were not conformed to the image of Christ, and were not forgiven of their sins. Therefore, it stands to reason that they as well never possessed eternal life—for eternal life is eternal.
The plain fact is that Scripture encourages believers to work in righteousness as they reflect the glory of their Lord. And Scripture offers security for those who have this work of grace alive in them. Those who claim belief but do not live righteously are persuaded to fear for their place and are invited to pursue God with all their hearts, minds, and souls that they might rest in the security of God's grace.
In light of 1 John 1:9's admonition to confess sin for faithful and just forgiveness, the question is often asked whether a true believer, unconfessed, might not be in danger of perdition. Yet, while confession of sin before God is integral to the obedient Christian life and no true Christian will go for too long in aggressive rebellion against the confession of sin, believers are always going some duration without confessing their sin. Even if it is only the time period between the sin and one's immediate regret for and confession of that sin, there is still a period of unconfessed sin. We do not believe that this unconfessed sin can keep the true child of God from receiving that which God has claimed is his inheritance and has sealed in him with the Holy Spirit. We do believe that unconfessed sin will forge a breach in one's earthly experience of the joys of heavenly life, but not that unconfessed sin can mar the surpassing grace of God. If this were so then every believer would be in danger of perdition at the time of his death for even as Christians, we recognize that we sin constantly in thought and deed."
if you all want to read something REALLY deep and ponder the ramifications of it consider this
Lambert Dolphin wrote this and it is fascinating. I'm not sure I understand completely what he's getting at and in one area he almost sounds as if he's saying we don't go to heaven when we die but we do. very metaphysical.
Jib,
Okay, as you know, I wasn't in on the OSAS debate, so I agree, not to re-open it, okay?
Just my two cents, as I felt led to reply. (this could have been brought up? I dunno)
In John Bevere's book, Driven By Eternity, (which is really, REALLY GOOD! it's a story within a story, kinda like "a wheel within a wheel :) he explains a vision he was given, by God. This was his vision, and I am only relating it, as I remember it. (it's been over a year since I read the book.) He said, he saw (in his vision) where a woman he knew at church was in hell. He cried out to God, "why is this?" And in this vision, God replied, "it's not my wish that she's in hell. I can't forgive her her sins, because she refused to forgive other's their offenses and sins against her."
He (John Bevere) went on to say, that it "blew his mind." BUT, the Bible does say, that we are to forgive, so that God can forgive us our sins.
It's something to think about, and to remind us all, that we have been forgiven much, and we need to forgive other people.
Also Matt. 18 comes to mind.
OSAS? Be quick to forgive, and walk as close as you can with God.
End of my two cents, on the subject of OSAS.
Lisa, Shalom! I'm afraid I have a bone to pick with you (perhaps the jawbone of an a$$?) Back on Aug. 19 (my birthday, BTW) at 1:12 PM you posted a link to this article: The Emerging Church And Bible Prophecy: Commentary by Roger Oakland.
Now, recently one person on another forum pointed out that I must have been the kid who liked poking the beehive with a stick ("Of course! How else will you find out what happens when you do that?"). Another time in another discussion, someone asked me why I was beating a dead horse. My reply: "Because that's how you tenderize the meat!" So consider this my tenderizing moment.
Frankly, this essay has me frightened. His first few definitions of the "emergent church" (with my comments in parenthesis) are correct:
Scripture is no longer the ultimate authority as the basis for the Christian faith (as in, what and how I feel is more important than what the Bible says);
More and more emphasis is being placed on “how can I be more successful in the ‘here and now’”, and less and less on the warnings of Scripture about the imminent return of Jesus Christ and a coming judgment in the future (additionally, there is also less and less emphasis on sin and the effects and consequence of sin, as "God is so nice He would never punish anyone eternally for sin");
An experiential mystical form of Christianity (one that emphasizes "me" over the divine "You" of Jesus) is being promoted to reach the postmodern generation called the “Emerging Church”.
The problem is, the author then lists as some of the dangers of the Emergent Church the fact that, "While the authority of the Word of God is being undermined, images and sensual experiences are being promoted as the key to experiencing and knowing God. These experiences include icons, candles, incense, liturgy, contemplative prayer, experiencing the sacraments, particularly the sacrament of the Eucharist." The author then goes on to say things like, "Some evangelical Protestant leaders are saying that the Reformation went too far. They are reexamining the claims of the “church fathers” saying that communion is more than a symbol and that Jesus actually becomes present in the wafer at communion."
Frankly, I'd like to meet some of these evangelical Protestant leaders! This is the first I've heard of ANY of evangelicals saying "The Reformation went too far!"
More serious, though, is his contention that things like contemplative prayer and the Sacrament of the Eucharist are tools of the devil to lead people away from G_D! Keep in mind -- he's not just talking about the Roman Catholic Church. He probably thinks he is, but in teaching this, he is also calling into question the teachings, beliefs, and practices of millions upon millions of Orthodox Christians: Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Ukrainian Orthodox, etc. How can contemplative prayer be bad? How can something like sitting or kneeling in front of a crucifix -- a cross with the crucified body of Christ attached -- contemplating all the wounds, all the blows, all the torture that this Man suffered for us on our behalf to reconcile humanity with G_D; how can contemplating that, meditating on that, praying on that possibly lead us to the Evil One? How is that inherently evil?
Then there is his belief that studying the Church Fathers is also inherently evil. In other words, the words and teachings of men who were taught Christianity by the men who were taught by Christ are so filled with error that they cannot be trusted. What is it about the teachings of the Church Fathers that means they cannot be trusted? Is it that what they teach contradicts what he believes?
If that is the case, then it means he has put his trust not in the teachings of men only 100 years removed from Christ, but in the teachings of men 1,400 years removed from Christ; men teaching things contrary to what had been taught through the previous 14 centuries. Think about it: would the G_D who promised through His Son that His Holy Spirit would never abandon them leave His Church to teach such errors for 14 centuries? And before you say things like the RCC killed all the people who were trying to move His Church in the right direction, let me ask you: Who is more powerful, Yahweh or the Pope? As a Roman Catholic, I can tell you who I KNOW is more powerful, and his name is NOT Benedict.
So be very cautious in what this man is saying. Roger Oakland may be sincere in his desire to warn against the dangers of the emergent church movement, but I fear he is letting his hate for the Catholic Church guide him more that he is letting the Holy Spirit guide him.
(Say, do you think this horse meat is tender enough now? Time to start up the grill? Or do we need to marinate it first?)
<><
Jim C.
Oh no,
I've read no further YET-Since it was your B-day I can tell I'm in for an A$$ Whoopin. Somehow I must have burst your balloons ):
I'll take 5 and come back to it.
Lisa, Shalom! Regarding your post of 9:39 AM, when you ask about what would happen to the region after Gog/Magog, and if the nations could rise again in just 3.5 years, the answers are: 1) the region would prosper, and 2) yes, the nations COULD rise again that quickly.
Don't forget, of all the nations listed in Gog/Magog, two are noticeably absent. Egypt is not mentioned. I can think of a number of reasons why it wouldn't join -- the Christian conversion of Egypt may reach critical mass there, causing social upheaval and causing the Muslims to not invite them to the party; the present president could die, causing social upheaval and leaving them too busy putting down internal rebellion to join; or Egypt may choose to continue to honor their peace agreement with Israel. Given the number of times Israel has kicked Egypt's rear end whenever Egypt has attacked Israel before, the present president may decide that Egypt itself might not survive another "guaranteed victory against Israel." Remember that Egypt's economy is stagnant -- you only get jobs if you know somebody, and there aren't enough jobs to go around. The country is going to explode; it's just a matter of time.
The other country is Iraq. We may be pulling out of there by 2010 or 2011, but if Gog/Magog occurs before we withdraw, you can bet that Iraq won't join in the war against Israel. This means that if the type of damage to the attacking countries occurs (as described by Joel in his novels), there are only going to be two oil-producing countries left in the region with an industrial infrastructure: Egypt and Iraq. Egypt doesn't get a lot of attention paid to it in terms of oil production because there's been too much corruption in the system for them to become a major player. (Also, given the history of countries in the region attacking each other, Egypt may be purposefully laying low to keep it from becoming a target.) But given the destruction of the surrounding regions and the need to get more oil on the market RIGHT NOW, jobs should be plentiful in Egypt for a while, reducing the social pressure.
The same applies to Iraq. The biggest problem comes from the foreign fighters who keep disrupting life in the country. These foreign fighters come from countries slated by Gog/Magog to be destroyed. When that happens, chances are they will all go home, partly to check on family, but mostly to save their own skin. This should give Iraq enough time to rebuild and recover from war. There will be plenty of work available for the people, especially if Iraq goes ahead with plans to rebuild Babylon. Since Turkey will also have major problems, this might be the time where the Kurds negotiate with both Turkey and Iraq to split off along ethnic lines and form Kurdistan (aka, Assyria).
So, if there is a minimum of conflict in the region and a maximum focus on rebuilding, then yes, most definitely it could be rebuilt in 3.5 years.
<><
Jim C.,
Actually I have done some study on Contemplative prayer but in reference with the New Age movement. This same idea is being promoted in Protestant churches now which was never practiced before (that I know of) & originally steams from Eastern Mysticism.
Is this what you do as a Catholic when you concentrate on Jesus?
(I don't know the answer-never thought about it re: Catholicism)
And why do you meditate upon so much of the gory details of Christ's torture & suffering? So you can mentally go through it with Him once more? Is this a sense of false humility?
When I think about those things I get emotional & saddened but why not meditate upon the defeat of Satan @ the Cross? Envision the King of Kings and Lord of Lords sitting upon His throne getting ready to kick some petuti & establish His kingdom on earth?
All glory, honor, & praise to our King?Do you contemplate that as intensely as well?
Now come on. Just because a pastor does not agree w/some of the Catholic teachings does not mean he "Hates" the Catholic Church.
It just means he does not agree with the particular teaching.
You know I also don't agree with some of the teachings but I don't hate you.
But if it doesn't match up with the scripture then it becomes suspect. Especially if it originated w/the traditions & doctrines of men.
People have these visions, apparitions & all kinds of supernatural experiences yet they don't test the spirits to see if what they tell us to incorporate into our lives aligns w/the Word. It's multi-dimensional-Christian & non-Christian. Catholic, Protestant, Evangelical no one is exempt from this.We all have access to the Holy Spirit yet deception does happen.
When I view Oakland’s belief of where the Current Protestant and Catholic movements are heading I agree it is scary. They are about to merge into one Universal religion. And it just may be the religious system which we have been warned about.
Am I 100% convinced? No. But I'm watching it. What if this is really how it's going to play out?
Is there any thing the Catholic religion could do to make you step back & say- Hummmm?
I'm not going to defend my Evangelical groups fighting tooth & nail. I already know many are falling away. I identify with them the most but rather I just want to identify myself w/the Biblical Christ.
That I am willing to die for.
Take a look @ this site:Contemplative Prayer I would be interested to know if how you practice "Contemplative Prayer" is similar to what they describe.
So is my meat now char-broiled? A little crusty and crunchy on top?
JIM C. I think you need to put it in a real doozy of a marinade and then check it to make sure it has had enough.
Good points you made.
grany
Guess what this old grany is doing! Fox News Channel has a 24 hour live DNC convention video feed and I got my volume up (can't hear the sirens) and listening to all of the "wet behind the ears" analyst dissecting and resurrecting the whole show. I am grooving today!
Modern technology at it's best.
Grany
Jim C. - Can you take a look at this & let me know if anything has changed in the RCC on this point?
Abortion and Excommunication
There was a little debate Sat. (that I did not partake) where someone that was not a Catholic stated that one could still get excommunicated for having, agreeing with, helping, etc. an abortion. My mother (who's Catholic) said that was no longer true.
Do you know the answer?
Thanks much,
Thanks for all your prayers. I thought it was going to hit more harder than it did. I cannot be there for my sister because she's up in the U.P. of Michigan.
She asked that no one call them for the next few days.
btw: My boss gave me september 29th off. He is puzzled by me wanted to celebrate a Jewish holiday. A bunch of friends are going to take the day off as well. My husband asked and was granted the day off.
Aliesia, Shalom! The Canon Law cited in that article still stands:
Any Catholic who deliberately and knowingly obtains a procured abortion commits a mortal sin and is also automatically excommunicated, under canon 1398. ... Any Catholic who substantially assists another in the deliberate sin of abortion is also guilty of serious sin and also incurs a latae sententiae excommunication. "Latae sententiae" means that the excommunication is automatic -- it occurs simply by performing the act. If I were to drive my girlfriend to the abortion clinic, even if I didn't go inside or walk her to the door, I would have assisted her in getting an abortion and would be automatically excommunicated.
What HAS changed are the medical practices involving abortion. Thanks to advances in fertility treatments and other medical procedures, there's been an increase in the number of treatable complications which by their nature damage or destroy the embryo. There's been a great deal of debate on the issue in the past 30 years, and now the key element to consider is if the removal of the embryo the primary cause of the operation, or if it's a secondary cause to the treatment designed to save the life of the mother. For example, if a pregnant woman should contract uterine cancer, the accepted treatments are chemotherapy, radiation therapy, or removal of the cancerous organ. In this case, removal of the cancerous organ means also removing (aborting) the developing fetus. An abortion occurs, but the surgery wasn't primarily to remove the fetus, it was to remove a cancerous organ -- the abortion is an unfortunate side effect of the primary treatment designed to save the woman's life.
<><
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Did you see this video on Rapture Alert? The Rapture
I'm watching it right now
Here is the Glen Beck transcript w/Joel Rosenburg.
My sister just called. She was in tears of course. When Eric was found, he had already been dead for two days. His insulin and cell phone were close to him. His Bible lay on the floor nearby.
She had just been with him a few days ago. She told me he was like one of her own boys.
I told her that you were all praying for her, Leal and Michelle. She was so touched that she began to cry. When she tried to pray, all she could do was moan.
Thanks for all your kind words, they are appreciated very much.
Now it's sunk in. I'm going to miss that kid.
Rev 7:17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."
Still praying, Lori. May God send them comfort and strength.
Lisa, Shalom! I've spent the last few hours working on a reply to your message at 1:23 PM about "Contemplative Prayer". I've just finished writing chapter two, and I figured it might be a little long to post. So, let me say that as a Catholic I REALLY have to disagree with their definition of Contemplative Spirituality: Contemplative Spirituality: A belief system that uses ancient mystical practices to induce altered states of consciousness (the silence) and is rooted in mysticism and the occult but often wrapped in Christian terminology. The premise of contemplative spirituality is pantheistic (God is all) and panentheistic (God is in all). I can say with no fear of contradiction that this is NOT "contemplative spirituality" as understood and practiced by Catholics.
The key difference between Catholic contemplative practice and the eastern techniques is the focus. The eastern techniques focus on meditating on yourself; the Catholic practices focus on G_D. A lot of the things he talked about being dangerous, I can't see unless the person is focusing only on his-or-herself.
Did you ever wonder why the Evangelical groups are so very bog on intercessory prayer, but never developed a contemplative prayer tradition?
Oh, and your meat is still marinading... (vinegar and regular coke)
<><
Lori,
Some encouraging clips for you & your family.
Over My Head Song
When the Lamb has had His way Poem
I just thought this one was really pretty:Jesus Loves Me Song
0 death, where is thy sting? 0 grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
(1 Corinthians 15:55-57)
Lisa,
You mentioned a book you're reading that questions America's Christian roots. I would encourage you to check into Wall Builders. WallBuilders is an organization dedicated to presenting America's forgotten history and heroes, with an emphasis on the moral, religious, and constitutional foundation on which America was built-a foundation which, in recent years, has been seriously attacked and undermined.
Also, you should read The Light and the Glory by Peter Marshall & David Manuel. Here's a review (not mine) of the book:
Peter Marshall and David Manuel have brought to America a view of our heritage that is smothered in today's anti-God humanism. We so readily accept the words of a single man to confirm the cult of evolution yet dismiss the profound faith portrayed in the writings of our founding fathers. This is not intended to be a simple history book with a slant, it is intended to fill in the gaps of true events and ideas so brutally deleted from our education and public discourse. I thank God for men willing to stand for the full truth of America's founding. I have gotten the DVD series in which Peter Marshall presents the story of this book and the sequel "From Sea to Shining Sea". The series is being presented in one of our church classes and has ignited the passions of those attending to promote the sharing of this message.
I have read the book and it is GOOD if you want to learn about the Christian roots of America. It's sad how far we've fallen as a country.
Jim C
while that may be the traditional view, the newer views are the problem. I do believe that the some in the emergent church do credit a couple of bishops I forget who on helping them with their contemplative prayer life. the problem being that the bishops or priests in question studied under yogis from the far east and learned THEIR techniques which is what they then are passing on.
Jim G
I shall have to keep those 2 books in mine
or mind whichever you prefer :-)
Jib,
WHAT IS THAT? Did you get a new hair due ?
Jib,
The first link is to a website for Wall Builders ministry.
Speaking of good ministries, does anyone here ever have a chance to listen to Janet Parshall’s America on the radio? Unfortunately, I only catch it on occasion because it is on when I am typically at work. Janet is an absolutely rock solid Christian, is extremely articulate, and she is on fire for the Lord. She is very knowledgeable about politics and current events and consistently analyzes all in light of God's Word.
Mac,
I think you'll appreciate this. I was on Janet Parshall's website and clicked on the title of a book written by Mark Steyn. Check out this book description. In particular, look at what I placed in bold text.
From the Inside Flap
It’s the end of the world as we know it…
Someday soon, you might wake up to the call to prayer from a muezzin. Europeans already are.
And liberals will still tell you that "diversity is our strength"—while Talibanic enforcers cruise Greenwich Village burning books and barber shops, the Supreme Court decides sharia law doesn’t violate the "separation of church and state," and the Hollywood Left decides to give up on gay rights in favor of the much safer charms of polygamy.
If you think this can’t happen, you haven’t been paying attention, as the hilarious, provocative, and brilliant Mark Steyn—the most popular conservative columnist in the English-speaking world—shows to devastating effect in this, his first and eagerly awaited new book on American and global politics.
The future, as Steyn shows, belongs to the fecund and the confident. And the Islamists are both, while the West—wedded to a multiculturalism that undercuts its own confidence, a welfare state that nudges it toward sloth and self-indulgence, and a childlessness that consigns it to oblivion—is looking ever more like the ruins of a civilization.
Europe, laments Steyn, is almost certainly a goner. The future, if the West has one, belongs to America alone—with maybe its cousins in brave Australia. But America can survive, prosper, and defend its freedom only if it continues to believe in itself, in the sturdier virtues of self-reliance (not government), in the centrality of family, and in the conviction that our country really is the world’s last best hope.
Jim G.
If you read mine, I'll read yours.
I don't think this book is quite in the context of what some may be presuming. (but I am interested in the Christianity aspect of American History)
It's very Biblically based but I want to refrain from commenting on his final point until I finish it.
It would be interesting to get another opinion on it if someone here is so inclined. It's a quick read.
Now the book I'll have to force myself through I bought at the Nashville airport is by Neal Boortz: Somebody’s GOTTA SAY IT. (Government schools, burning flags, and the war on the individual.)
My main mistake is that I didn't really know who Neal Boortz was. I used to listen to talk radio quite often but I've never heard Boortz.
This guy claims he's "Christian." Well if he's Christian with a mouth and attitude on him like that then-my name's Harry.
Lisa,
Regarding "UNCHRISTIAN AMERICA", by Michael Babcock. "Living with faith in a nation that was never under God."
I think you may be right when you say: I don't think this book is quite in the context of what some may be presuming.
I suppose it depends upon what one means by "a nation under God." Clearly, Christians can have a positive impact (be a salt and light) on a nation. God is sovereign. He raises nations up and brings them down. I do think that God's hand of blessing has been on America for which we should be grateful. Like I said, we've fallen a long way since our founding. Sure there has always been sin in America. But the truths upon which America was founded were Biblical truths. It was a Christian mindset and worldview that largely shaped this country. It is the non-Christian mindset (or should I say anti-Christian mindset) that is destroying it as it will destroy any country. God will not be mocked.
Jim C.
"Did you ever wonder why the Evangelical groups are so very bog on intercessory prayer, but never developed a contemplative prayer tradition?"
It may be that they are very cautious.(Or at least were-some have gone off the deep end w/some strange goin on's.)
The things they associate w/pagan practices they generally avoid. (Now we can argue about Christmas/Easter Celebrations as I know they have their pagan roots.)
The candles, rosary beads, statues ,incense, holy water,prayers to saints-many of the sensory Catholic traditions are frowned upon. Martin Luther had something to do w/that I believe.
My existence & relationship with God is very simplistic. I sing praises,pray,give thanks, meditate on the Word & God, and generally tell Him what's happening on a day to day basis.
Nothing fancy & nothing much in the way of sensory. Singing & Music are large portion of the worship experience.
I pray in tongues-which most Evangelicals neither promote nor dissuade.
So I guess my question is with contemplative prayer beads, statues, candles,....
Am I missing something? Are you any closer to God than I? What would contemplative prayer add to my daily life?
Am I done marinating yet or are you going to skewer me and put me on the spit?
Have a Happy Tuesday!
(I thought it would be fun to be the 100th poster :)
P.S. I'm easily amused, LOL!
Jim G; for the most part, Australia still takes a hard line to Islamists and people who don't want to integrate into the Australian way. But there are leftist and multicultural forces within working diligently to break that resolve. Here in Melbourne, we had an incident where about 100 black Sudanese youths descended on two cars innocently parked at traffic lights and attempted to assault the occupants. The police attended and were assaulted as well – vastly outnumbered, they had to retreat. One prominent paper gave very vague reports leaving out the identity of the youths although all one had to do was recognize that the suburb where it occurred was where they have had a high population of Sudanese immigrants living in High Rise Apartments. Sure enough, one of the more conservative papers told the truth and was promptly castigated for being racist and for possibly fostering racism. The fact is that, recently, we’ve had a great influx of immigrants from Sudan and Somalia who haven’t been screened and now we’re experiencing crime waves perpetrated by these people. But apparently it isn’t PC to point it out and the free legal aid people and minority activists are helping these criminals get away with crime on the basis of their nationality and underprivileged circumstances.
Jim C - I knew you'd have the answer for me.
Thanks much, that's what I thought.
Another post at Joel's today.
-HB
Nothing like a ton of topics all going on at the same time!
I did get to read the link mac posted at August 25, 2008 2:24 AM
and it is excellent!
Please know you are all in my thoughts and prayers.
(Three good articles)
Cutting Edge Newsalert
"There was compelling evidence yesterday ... that Russia is planning a long-term occupation of Georgia. The Observer witnessed Russian soldiers digging trenches seven kilometres outside the port of Poti next to the Rioni river and the main highway to Tbilisi ... A Russian flag flew above a grassy camp; around 20 soldiers were spread out in trenches and next to an armoured personnel carrier ... The Russians had taken off their regular army helmets and replaced them with blue peacekeeping ones ... they were regular soldiers. Today they are peacekeepers."
NEWS BRIEF: "Obama’s Spark Is Gone: Decision to choose Biden as running mate reflects loss of revolutionary momentum", YNET News, 8-25-2008
NEWS BRIEF: "Bhutto widower poised for Pakistan's presidency", The Guardian (London), August 25, 2008
Jim G
a well-that's what I get for being in a hurry. will check that site out.
Lisa
my picture is our golden doodle-cross between standard poodle and golden retriever. people always ask me what she looks like and I tell them a retriever with a bad perm! she's pretty cute though
More on the BHO as messiah front-yet another Carpathia like moment
interesting headline on drudge this morning-gustav is looking like a category 5 hurricane and it's headed for NOLA on the eve of the Republican convention! (there isn't a link to the headline as of yet)
The Russian president (isn't he the one who is supposed to be in control) finally speaks on Russia is ready for anything
Don't know if you people are aware of this but thought it might be of interest to some:
/www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1126388,fbi082608.article
Grany
perhaps this is the reason Gustav might be heading for NOLA on the eve of the Republican convention-since Condi is a Republican and would be an interesting choice for VP for McCain?
If you have not checked up on Perry Stone the Election Year Warfare (about spiritual opression) was good & Opening & Closing the Gate of Heaven.(Jacobs ladder & interesting info on a "spear" & the spirit which spoke to Adolf Hitler.)
Jib,
This quote was from your latest link:
"One U.S. plan for Jerusalem obtained by WND was divided into timed phases, and among other things called for Israel eventually consider forfeiting parts of the Temple Mount, Judaism's holiest site."
Oh great. This is really such a brilliant plan! *&SE##*@(*$)(@
I don't know if I can stand the suspense of all of this.
Maybe Israel will tell them to take a hike & that's when everything comes to a head.
God Tube/Saddleback Obama/McCain answer breakdown
JIB, I am wondering why John McCain is planning on announcing his choice for VP position from Ohio? If he announces Friday it will be Dayton, Ohio but there is also suttlebutt that he might announce on Thursday, the day Obama speaks from the Mile High Stadium.
By the way, I know that it is supposed to be scuttlebutt but I feel the best description to be applied to the political scene is SUTTLE butt! You know what I mean Vern?
Still feeling crummy but sucking on a big tall glass of ice water is helping me greatly. Tried the sugar drinks and they only worsen the crud.
Grany
You want to see my son/his wife and my daughter/her hubby? Go to this site and click on photo gallery. Then click on slide show and if you have Cooliris installed on your computer you can see some beautiful pictures of Lake Tahoe with my kids enjoying the vacation.
Just so you can have a visual picture when you pray!
Love you all and wouldn't think of sharing this with you if I didn't;
Grany
I got so excited I forgot the link heheheheh
www.freewebs.com/rkansastom/index.htm
I really enjoyed looking at the pictures, Grany. Your family looks like a bunch of really nice people. :) And what a beautiful area they visited!
Donna, they are all squeezable and loving kindness to boot. I love them both with every fiber of my being and I thank God for giving them to me.
They both fell in love with the Lake Tahoe area and would really appreciate living there. Now with these pics I can understand why. Hope not though as it is a long way to have to travel to get a hug once in a while.
Grany
Grany,
Nice pictures! Reminded me of some past adventures in Lake Tahoe.
Especially the "Bucket of Blood" saloon in Virginia City. I still have a souvenir "bucket of blood" glass. (Something Jim C. would appreciate!)
Has anyone seen the lawsuit filed against one candidates for presidency?
It pretty much says he's not a legal US citizen.
obama
The first message wouldn't go with his name in it, I changed the proper noun and it went immediately. So my husband said, send just his name... and then it went thru.
Wilma, I loved the pictures. What a pretty place.
You called it, Nate.
Nate, you beat me by a few minutes... I saw that you already posted the Condi link so I hit the delete button.
Bush condemns Russia's recognition of Georgian provinces
Russia threatens military response to US missiles
Russia ready for 'anything': Medvedev
Russia says to halt visits by senior NATO officials
Israel to Show Dead Sea Scrolls on the Internet
Abbas: We can't lose another 7 years searching for peace
Rice, in Israel, Criticizes Surge in Settlement Construction
U.N. Confirms: Hizbullah Importing Weapons From Syria
Israel follows French FM's Syria trip
Pakistan: Top US diplomat escapes gun attack
NKorea says it halted nuclear reactor disablement
World needs new ways of thinking about current challenges - Prince Hassan of Jordan
Two Gulf Arab investors have expressed interest in buying General Motors Corp's (GM) Hummer brand
Iranian cleric accused President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of betraying the people
So many comments to comment on, so little time. But, Jim C, like Alesia, I knew you would give a thorough and complete answer, so I must take time to thank you.
Do you remember that Perry Stone program(2 mo ago?) where he spoke of a vision he had years ago about the "oil tornardo" and some oil rigs topped w/a cap what looked to be located off the gulf?
The large trucks stopped moving supplies.
Could this be it? Wouldn't that get us all riled up!
Lori, when I click on the link for the Obama article, it takes me to the gmail welcome page. Nothing there about the subject. (I tried twice)
Weird! Would you, or someone try and see if it's just me?
let me see what I can do
it came up for me... if you want, email me and I'll send you the link that way... yes?
Lori, email sent. Thanks!
Well folks, time for bedy by
hugs all around
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
SOON
Harold,
You might like this if you have not already seen THE MOON PHASE CALENDAR I don't know much about war but I read that it's a popular strategy to attack when the moon is blacked out.
SPECIAL REPORT: Kuwait Readying for War in Gulf?
Did any of you watch Hillary except Donna and I? I wanted to hear what she had to say and I noticed one big thing she left out: Obama didn't get her endorsement. She didn't say he would make a great Commander in Chief and she didn't say he would be a great president. She did say Michelle would and will make an excellent first Lady. Oh, Hill, you left a lot of the bases loaded and now tomorrow Slick Willy will get a chance to endorse Obamasama.
Not intended to be mean spirited but those two are a class action pair and go together like the perfect Bookends they have always been.
Good nite all! I am tired
Grany
Grany,
Nope, I didn't see it, either.
As you all know, I'm not very political. Why listen to what any of them have to say? IMO it's a gamble at best. No matter what they say, what will they do if voted into office? It's usually a different story then :(
It's no wonder the Bible instructs us to pray for those in authority.
And yes, I do vote. Pro-Life gets my vote.
Okay, that's about it, on my take on politics.
The End :)
I'm good for the Fall elections, now. See how simple it can be? LOL!
well this might get lost in the shuffle but perhaps not. I think Jim C will find this quite interesting as well as some of the rest of you
American Papists
I'm not very political either, Marge. It's all very ho-hum to me. mac gets all hot and bothered, though. Must be the Italian blood.
MOSCOW, Aug 27 (Reuters) - An intense earthquake measuring nine on the Richter scale hit the Lake Baikal area of eastern Siberia on Wednesday, triggering reports of panic, but there were no casualties or major damage, officials said.
Jim G., Shalom! I think the Russian seismic equipment needs to be re-calibrated. The USGS gives that earthquake a 6.3 -- strong, but definitely not as strong as the San Francisco earthquake and fire.
<><
Listen to this man proclaim the truths of God on CSPAN. Star Parker does an absolutely fantastic job too but if you only have a few minutes, listen to what Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson says. He is AWESOME.
The Black Church and State – Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Star Parker Traditional Black Churches vs. Liberation Theology and Their Roles In 2008
There is a search function that allows you to search the transcript for cerain words or phrases and then it will link you to that spot on the video. Search for Obama, abortion, God, etc...
You'll need to temporarily allow pop ups for the media player to come up.
Also, slide the control bar to about 2/3 down to go to the really good stuff with Rev. Peterson and Star Parker.
Jim C.
Thanks for the Richter scale reading correction. I wondered how in the world there could be an earthquake that measured 9 on the richter scale and have no damage reported. It would have to be very remote. I grew up in the Bay Area and remember well the 1989 quake that hit during the World Series. I was actually about 20 miles from the epicenter. It was a big one!
This will brings the video link up directly. As I said earlier, skip directly to the last third or so of the video.
Obama Speech Stage Resembles Ancient Greek Temple
New post is up, once again a little early as I will be fast asleep when the comments go over 150.
Everyone have a God-blessed day. Thanks for the suggestion, Lisa.
And a thank you to my lovely co-admin as well.
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