In the making of worlds, he stands at a distance and speaks his will; but when he creates saints, and redeems his people, he comes out of his chambers — he rends the heavens and comes down, he reveals himself as a God nigh at hand; he standeth over his work as the potter over the clay upon the wheel. It is written, that when he made the heavens and the earth, that “the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy;” but I never hear that God sang; there is nothing in the merely material universe to stir the Infinite heart; the work is not dear enough to him, nor so full of satisfaction as the grand work of redeeming love; but when he saved his people — when he created Israel for himself, I hear it said — “He shall rest in his love; he shall rejoice over thee with singing.”
~Charles H. Spurgeon~
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153 comments:
Feel better Hyde, that you finally were first?
Thank you, my sweet.
My wife sent me this today and I thought it was pretty funny.
Volatile India-Pakistan Standoff Enters 11,680th Day
atty told me a couple of days ago about a guy named Lindsey Williams. He was a Baptist missionary to the men in the Alaskan Oil fields from 1977 to 1979. He wrote a book in 1980 called "The Energy Non-Crisis". What he has to say blew my mind!
I found an 8 part video of him talking on youtube. Here is part one:
Lindsey Williams - The Energy Non-Crisis - Part 1 of 8
I also found a free link to his book online. The cheapest I have seen his book for sale used (you can't seem to find it anywhere new) is $179! The most expensive was $1800!
Here is the link to the online book:
The Energy Non-Crisis by Lindsey Williams
It is certainly the best conspiracy theory I have heard in quite sometime.
I re-found that "angel of Light" Utube video on a Christian site.
Someone captured one of these angels of light manifesting at an outdoors meeting of people chanting in Spanish that is very disturbing when some weird thing showed up and is said to be an angel
"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed"
(Galatians 1:6-9).
Nate, thanks for that "Worthy is the Lamb" link. I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it.
Nate,
Thanks for sharing that powerful presentation of "Worthy Is The Lamb."
Amen!
WorldNetDaily has posted three articles re: Mark Biltz's findings regarding Solar and Lunar Eclipses.
From Fresno CA TV and Newspapers
Interesting.
Worthy is the Lamb!!!!
Harold, this is weird. Yesterday someone at work asked me if I've seen this video. I'd never heard of it and now I check out the new blog and here you are with this. I'm listening to it now... phew!
Mac - are you still out there?
I need you - can you please go to YM?
Yikes!
38 dead after being bitten by vampire bats
I think Victoria needs to read "Become a Better You: 7 Keys to Improving Your Life Every Day" again. She seems a little hostile. :-)
Victoria Osteen denies attacking flight attendant
Harold
very funny comment about Osteen. I got a nice chuckle out of it.
if you all want to read a less expensive book on the myth of oil scarcity and politics, I can highly recommend the book by Corsi "Blackgold Stranglehold"
who pays that much money for a book anyway?
Harold and Jib,
I hadn't heard anything about this one until now.
Pretty whacky charges, aren't they? Although,......
yea Marge
I watched all 8 of the videos-the first few were pretty good but they slowly deteriorated from there.
some of what the guy says is undoubtedly true I just have trouble swallowing all of it. It has been fairly well documented by trustworthy people such as George Sada that there were wmd and they were moved before the war started thanks to Russia leaking our plans. Regarding Kuwait-I would wonder why it was divided,may be tribal differences maybe it might have actually have been an independent country before it was annexed by Iraq-one never knows why the post war powers did what they did. they certainly appear to have arbitrarily divided up the area.
Blackgold stranglhold approaches from a different perspective-that there is no scarcity of oil because oil is not a fossil fuel but abiotic in origin. Apparently the entire russian oil and natural gas industry is based on this theory-essentially the Russians are pulling stuff out of the ground from areas in which no one else would look because the proper rock strata aren't there.
funny I remember the Iranians threatening to buy in Euros but don't remember the whole flooding of the market. I find the fact that they supposedly don't post in dollars interesting-they are a member of OPEC are they not so wouldn't they have to be doing so?
some of Williams facts sound a little fishy to me but really don't have the time or interest necessarily to check everything out.
and as one person said on another link about williams-
"I'm a natural skeptic about grand conspiracy theories"
interesting link though-one of the guys did find that there was a well tapped and drilled on gull island and labeled classified BUT it was drilled in 1992 not the time frame when Williams said he was there.
one also says that apparently Kissinger was a college professor at the time Williams alleges he had these meetings and not Secretary of State. doesn't mean he didn't talk with them but might mean it is not as sinister as pointed out.
Free Republic link on Williams
I find I have a certain amount of cynicism about the link Harold posted about reading the book. Williams is tacitly held to be above reproach because he is an ordained baptist minister but BAPTIST John Rockefeller is not above reproach although it makes a point about both of them being baptist.
so why does being a baptist make one above reproach and the other not?
New news(at least to me) from The Last Trumpet
When I was seeking the Lord in prayer regarding what to write in this newsletter, I heard the words, “Jeremiah’s seething pot is boiling once again.” As I sought the Saviour even more, it was revealed to me that this is the very condition of our nation of the United States today. America has become a cauldron of mixture. It is a seething melting pot that is melding the bodies, souls, and minds into one collective population that is in submission to the forces of darkness and antichrist.
...ancient Roman Empire when Christians were called idiots, because they would not assimilate, accept, or blend in with the Roman way of life. The word idiot originated from the Greek word idiotes, and then from the Latin word idiota, which meant private or one’s own. This referred to people who could not be persuaded to become a part of accepted society. Thus, the wide use of the word idiot was first applied to Christians. It appears to have come to that again.
On July 8th, 2008, Paul S. Ruwaldt of the Department of Homeland Security proposed plans for a new security device to be used on all airline passengers. It is an electronic bracelet that could track their movements, hold personal information, and be triggered like a Taser to stun them into immobility.
There is now a new trend throughout the United States involving weddings. The bride shows up in a white wedding dress that has been intentionally soiled by grease, paint, dirt and sand. The trend is called trashing the dress. (31) The implication is that the bride has been defiled. Wedding pictures are also taken in back alleys near trash cans.
There have been over 360 earthquakes of magnitude 4 or greater in the past 30 days! One was a powerful 7.7 magnitude quake in the Sea of Okhotsk near Russia. (43) On June 30th, 2008, the Israeli authorities issued a warning to all medical facilities and organizations that severe seismic activity is rapidly building in the area of southern Lebanon, and a severe earthquake is imminent in the Israeli State. (44) Revelation 16:18-19 tells us of a great earthquake that will divide the “Great City” into three parts and then cause the cities of the nations to fall!
In Red China where the Olympics are soon to start, smog has filled the region, and it is so thick that it sometimes blots out the sun. Pollution levels are five times the safety limits. (45) In that same area, the Chinese Yellow Sea has turned blood red in what is called a “red tide”, caused by algae. (46) Now a locust warning has been issued for that same region as large swarms of locusts are expected to arrive just about the same day that the Olympics are scheduled to begin with the lighting of the “great cauldron of Zeus.” (47) These plagues are reminiscent of the ten plagues of Egypt. Without a doubt, the coming of the Lord is at hand!
I should note that while a cynic since I expect a one world government to come into being I would hardly be surprised if some of the conspiracy theories about the illuminati, bildeberg's, masons's etc did come true. God told us that there would come a day when there would be one government for the whole world.
One way for that to happen would be people manipulating things as it were behind the scenes.
Since God has long range plans for the world would it be any surprise that satan also has long range plans for the world since he is and has been actively at war with God for a really long time? A one world government can not come into being over night and would require careful planning with both short and long term goals. satan isn't stupid-he's quite smart something I think we as Christians tend to forget or somehow gloss over because we know the ultimate victory will go to God but that doesn't make satan a less than formidable enemy either.
I don't think that the all the folks who have a global agenda are necessarily evil-just misguided although some more than likely are actually be evil and know precisely why they are doing what they do.
I do see the world wars especially Hitler as proto antichrist's-trial and error if you will, or may be testing the waters might be a better analogy. I think Hal Lindsey recently said much the same thing about BHO.
we live in interesting times.
While it is true that the discerning Christian does try to escape the seething pot the, the writer is perhaps misinformed about the origin of the word idiot.
as nearly as I can tell it comes from the greek but does have latin roots as well and it's original usage was in ancient athens to describe those who wouldn't take part in the political city state politics and preferred to stay out of it. that's if you trust wikepedia and wikitionary that is.
sorry-Lisa has her alien moments and I must be having one of my skeptical of nearly everything moments.
Well, I missed yelling God's Good Morning from Okieland again and I don't know what is happening to me. So, Good's God day from the Land of Green Trees, chiggers and beautiful blue skies. OKIELAND!
JIB I can believe the some of what Lindsey Williams has to say because I have heard similar things from various high ranking executives from the Petroleum industry before 1972. I worked for a very prominent physician in Tulsa in the early 70's and as this one very powerful exec was in the process of retiring and turning all of the company over to his board, he paid my employing doctor a visit. The man was dying of cancer and there were some things he wanted to share and one of them was the coming wild story about a shortage of oil reserves and availability. He told us that there was untapped sources that at that present time, were too expensive to go after and if the controlling Federal and State Agencies were facing a crisis of a massive degree, they would probably reduce the restrictions on exploration and thus cut the cost to the developing companies in the Petro businesses. He wanted us all to rest assured that even though we would be told there was a crisis, it would not be the truth.
This man, if named him, would immediately remove any doubts from your mind about the truth of the statement. His company was sold after his death and they moved from Tulsa in the middle to late 70's. Houston became their home and they are still in operation today. They have even managed to absorb another petro company of great stature.
So, I do tend to believe what this man is saying based on that and also, the testimony of my brother who was involved greatly with the Prudhoe Bay development and production. Back in 1981, the oil bubble burst for companies like the one I worked for. We were in the coal mining business (quite large in fact) and in the process of mining, you acquire mineral rights to the land that you either own, buy, or lease. The mineral rights are most generally all inclusive which means coal, gas, oil,etc.
Our company was flying on royalties from the oil companies for production of oil. Interest rates were sky high and we could make more money from the royalties and interest earned on them than we could for mining coal. Now this was bituminous coal production and that is higher priced coal than regular household type. All of a sudden, the wells were capped and put into reserve status. They were still capable (greatly so) but the demand had fallen off, the industry was going to be stalemated for a while and with the price falling, it was ridiculous to keep producing at such a low value. Those wells are still capped and not producing anything. The royalties dried up, the interest rates went way down, and the coal demand almost dried up also. The coal company closed its door in 1984 o4 85 but the wells are still owned by the coal company. Why would they keep something if it was of no value or even little value? Simple! They knew the amount of oil and they knew also that the demand would increase along with the number of vehicles and production using oil products. I don't believe anyone had the slightest inkling that China would become the big consumer of petro that it has become. Or even India! But they know that the day will come when their OIL will be worth a lot of money and money talks.
Now, I have to go catch Nate's link of "Worth is the Lamb". It is good seeing Nate here again and I have missed you greatly young man. You have no idea how greatly your post of this:
" I want to share this with all of you. I share it not because I want it to make you feel good, but because Jesus Christ is WORTHY of our praise. God deserves every living soul He gave His life for. He did it all. He did it all. He did it all. He did it all. He did it all. He did it all. He did it all. Amen.
Worthy is the Lamb!
August 8, 2008 6:57 PM
Yes, Nate! He did do it all and we can never improve on it, destroy it, or ignore it. He gave all he had so that we could have all that he gave. Isn't God wonderful!
Love to all,
Grany
This is from the other post.
lisa said;
"We don't have the physical persecution portion happening now but we do endure the deception of: material wealth, false teaching, worldly attitudes, subliminal TV/Media messages, Educational indoctrination, and the list goes on."
I agree with you! Very well said. I know I tried to convey this same idea before but not as well as you said here! Our greatest "problem" here in the US is DECEPTION(had to put that in bold because it is soooo important)! Most of the church sleeps, the other part seems to be pursuing all the (me)isms that pass for true faith here. Others pursue their "social gospel", trying to say that it is the true one that Jesus taught.
Please forgive my rant. You hit the nail with your comments lisa.
I am most tired of my own sin nature and fallen state, and look forward to that day when the Lord will say "Behold I make all things new"!!!
Maranatha!
Hey All,
Had a few thoughts about the end of the last thread I was too tired to post last night, so here goes...
Regarding Lisa and Overcomer's discussion on the american church.
It is my understanding that for about the last 250 yrs. students of end times prophesy recognized the near/far nature of the 7 churches of Rev 1-3. I know for a fact my distant ancestor John Robinson of the Mayflower pilgrims (their pastor, although he died before making it across himself) mentioned it in a sermon I have a copy of. (and you thought my writing style was long!!) Sir Isaac Newton also mentioned this view briefly in his work, "Observations on the apocalypse of St John". To summarize, most believe the american church is the church of Laodicea, who you will remember our Lord criticizes as the lukewarm church with great wealth but encourages to trade in our gold for the gold that fire can't destroy. The suffering church of Smyrna is also clear to see today, as in Darfur, China, Iran, etc. Those who take this view believe that as many as 4 of the 7 church types could be present in some form today. My point is that I don't believe there is any requirement that all church types of Rev 1-3 will suffer before the rapture comes. My suspicion is that some church types may contain large numbers of pseudo-Christians who will have to go through the fire of the tribulation and chose sides the hard way. As watchers on the wall our role here in america then becomes to wake up as many as we can before it's too late.
Second issue, I forget who mentioned the pre- trib vs pre-wrath thing but somebody said the pre-trib view is a relatively recent one only of the US church. I believe this is false. Grant Jeffreys has translated the sermons of one Ephraem the Syrian who apparently was pre-trib, and lived from 306-373 AD. (credit Chuck Missler for this one). While it's not my intent to open a large discussion on pre-/post- I did think this needed correction.
New topic.
So Russia has now declared war on Rep of Georgia, Georgia on Russia officially.
Anybody know of any mutual defense treaties between US and Rep of Georgia? I thought C. Rice signed something when she was there last month? Also, I believe the Southern Stream pipeline goes right through there. Could be bad for western european oil supplies. EU might get involved fast.
BTW it's nice to see some of the old names back posting. I guess the new events are getting us up from our naps.
In His Grip,
Scott
Lisa,
You provided some great information on Purim.
Grany,
That was some great information you shared about the oil industry.
Campsmore,
You maybe right about the earthquakes moving east in the U.S. over the last few months.
Nate,
It is great to hear from you! I loved the "Worthy is the Lamb" song!
Shalom, all! I've been in the background these last couple of days because I have my youngest daughter visiting this week, and because I've been spending more time at the Catholic Answers forum of late. The "End Times Speculation" thread over there has exploded (or at least popped loudly) in the last week, and I've got some stuff from there I want to share over the next 4 or 5 messages.
First of all, as a way to lighten your spirits, I want to direct you to another religiously-based thread over there on a subject that causes many of our spirits to soar and our hearts to burn. It's called HERESY! Chili MUST contain..., and it truly is a religious debate over whether or not you should mix beans with your meat when making chili. Quite a few Texans are weighing in with some authority on the issue, or as one person put it, "I'm hesitant to discuss religious issues like this, because Texas IS a death penalty state." There's also the issue of crushing saltines into your chili, or if you're only supposed to use tortilla chips or just serve cornbread on the side. Someone even posted a recipe for chili that doesn't use tomatoes -- popular in Arizona and northern Mexico.
This is a chance for you five-point con carne Chili Calvinists to make your beliefs known: must it be beef, or can venison or bison be used? And does chili made with chicken even count as chili? And can anyone tell me what "Big Red" soda is?
<><
BTW, I'm serious about this, about not mixing beans and meat. If you read Genesis, you'll see that it was the mixing of two different "substances" that produced the Nephillim.
<><
Jim C, we can buy Big Red soda pop here at our local IGA stores and it is good. Can't really describe it though! Just sugary and good!
Now let me get this straight, you mix beans (or be anns- like hu man beens) with meat (or carrying this right along, me ats) and you giants. Jolly Green or New York? (snicker, snicker)
Why be choosey? Mix all of them into the chili and have an American Bowl of Power Packed Heathens.
Oh, Jimmy me boy, you gave me cause for laughter. No matter how serious you are about it.
Grany
Jim C.
Chili certainly does produce something that would smell like a Nephillim!
Update from Andew Strom-Bentley
Let me start by saying that there is no-one who would enjoy "moving
on" from the topic of Lakeland more than me. When I first heard
of what was going on there, my immediate reaction was "OH NO!"
because I knew we were going to have to use this List to expose
certain things - a task I dreaded at the time. But overall I think it
has been a good thing. I have received huge numbers of emails
from all over the world from people who were caught up in that kind of deception - who are now breaking free from it - Glory to God!
Also, it is important to realize that even though Lakeland is
closing down on Aug 23rd - and God TV will stop broadcasting it -
Todd Bentley will still be travelling to other cities and nations holding what he calls a "One Night Revival Impartation with Todd Bentley". So it is not completely over - but yes - I am very keen to "move on" from Lakeland and get back to the things we normally emphasize - "Personal Revival" and the 'True Gospel' and massive Reformation and Change in the church, etc.
ADMIRATION for BLOGGERS
Some say that Lakeland would have fallen apart by itself without
any need for all the emails or blogs, etc. As someone with an
inside view of events, I have to say that this is not true at all. The people posting information via blogs, emails, Youtube videos, etc,
have been utterly essential to what has happened. When Charisma
started publishing about the Revival, I know for a fact that when they found out certain information through the Internet it changed their stance from "total support" to 'questioning'. I'm sure that ABC Nightline would say the same. And I know for a fact that ICA
apostle Robert Ricciardelli's opposition to Lakeland would not have become widely known at all if it weren't for blogs or email Lists like this one. All of these factors have been utterly crucial. I think some blogs may get a little bit harsh or "personal" at times, but overall I want to say- Kudos to the bloggers! You've made a real difference. You have protected multitudes of sheep around the world from being further deceived and destroyed.
When you think about it, isn't it amazing that this is the first 'revival' in history that has played out almost entirely on the Internet and the "new media"? -A sign of things to come, perhaps?
WHO ARE the "NEW MYSTICS"?
Since I am hoping this may be our last post about Lakeland for
awhile, I need to put forth a very specific warning about certain
ministries while I have the chance. Todd Bentley has long been
numbered among the 'New Mystics' in the Prophetic movement -
but there are others that I need to warn about also. These are
literally the most dangerous ministries (operating in a strange
"power") that I have ever come across in the Christian church.
That is the only reason why I feel I must "name names" in this
email - and I do so with great sadness.
The first of them is Jill Austin - from 'Master Potter' ministries.
I have seen her live in person, and sadly I regard her as one of the most dangerous of all. A minister from England described one ofher meetings as follows: "The weirdest three hours I have ever had to endure... she spoke of the times that she meets with the Angel Gabriel and other spiritual beings, next we moved on to portals between this world and the next and then finally to how she was going to open up a portal to Heaven in the room that we were all in. Now things started to happen, really crazy things and strange noises... As [she] moved around the room ministering to individual people they were crashing to the ground, bouncing up and down, running around as if on fire and making all sorts of sounds... My Vineyard friend was the first to crash to the floor. Since that day his church has taken on a different guise, it is not the same church any more."
In a very similar vein is Patricia King - who operates in the same
areaof "portals",jewels, 'angels', drunken jerking, etc. There is
real power in a lot of this - and I urge people to stay well clear.
John Crowder is another one. With his 'Drunken Glory' tours and
his "toking the ghost" and every other deceived thing - you cannot
even imagine how "off-beam" this guy is. Words sadly fail me.
And then there are the "fellow travellers" - men like Ben Dunn, Dave Vaughan, Justin Abraham, Joshua Mills and many others who have imbibed of the same weird spirit out of Toronto and the Prophetic movement. It is just awful what is going on out there. So sad.
It is tragic to have to put out warnings like this, but my hope and prayer is that it will prevent great harm from coming to Christ's
precious sheep. I hope you can hear my heart in this, my friends
Here JIM C.
Read all about!
/www.sodapopstop.com/products/detail.cfm?link=740
(Qoutes Strom sent)
"A man full of hope will be full of action." - Thomas Brooks
"We have the truth and we need not be afraid to say so."
- J.C. Ryle
"It is God's way to let ministers try all their strength first, and
then He Himself comes and subdues the hearts they cannot."
- Jonathan Edwards
"The true man of God is heartsick, grieved at the worldliness of
the Church...grieved at the toleration of sin in the Church, grieved at the prayerlessness in the Church. He is disturbed that the corporate prayer of the Church no longer pulls down the strongholds of the devil." - Leonard Ravenhill
"If you don't plan to live the Christian life totally committed to
knowing your God and to walking in obedience to Him, then don't begin;
for this is what Christianity is all about. It is a change of citizenship, a change of governments, a change of
allegience.If you have no intention of letting Christ rule your life, then forget Christianity; it's not for you." - K. Arthur
"Our murmuring is the devil's music." - Thomas Watson
"Finney preached, and sometimes the whole congregation would
get up and leave! That's good preaching." - Leonard Ravenhill
Goodnight Mac! Good Nite Alesia where ever you are! Good night Jim C. and don't drink the Big Red just before bed! Good night everyone and LISA, turn that light off and go to sleep! Those aliens are just a figment of your imagination!
Love you all,
Grany
Lisa, Shalom! About that "Angel of Light" video. I don't know what to say, except that to me, it's obviously an artifact within the lens. It's in the evening, so the aperture of the camera is open wide; you then have that bright bonfire. The aperture is open so wide that all you're getting from the bonfire is a bright glow -- no pieces of wood, no individual flames, etc. As the bonfire is on the left, the figure appears on the right. The figure moves with the camera. By that I mean that as the camera swings from left to right and back again, the figure moves in a speed and path that shows that the figure is following the curve of the lens. When the camera moves so that the bonfire is no longer in the frame, the figure moves out of frame also. In other words, the image is some distorted reflection of the bonfire within the lens. The flaw is apparent now just because the lens aperture is open so wide (because it's evening) and the camera is pointing in the direction of the bonfire. It wouldn't be visible in normal circumstances.
This video is distressing to me for two reasons: first is that this is the second "paranormal" video you've found that has links to www.saintbirgitta.com. Saint Birgitta is a Swedish saint from the 1300's who was granted visions of Our Lord's life, suffering, and death; and also the gift of prophecy. I don't know what this "thebibleword"'s deal is, except he/she seems to be choosing the most outrageous and sensational videos as a way to pull people to that web site. (The web site itself is not bad, consisting of translations of St. Birgitta's writings and prophecies. These were done back in the 14th century, and the style of writing reflects that time period -- not my favorite style of writing.) But this person doesn't appear to be using any kind of discernment as to the content of his videos, and as such, I think he's hurting his cause (the St. Birgitta website).
The second reason this distresses me is that all these claims of supernatural events, photos, and videos are actually destroying the credibility of any actual recordings of demonic actions. The photos and videos of Mary in the garden or of someone flying through the air chasing an angel are presented without any investigation. The video you had last week of the girls who had a photo that they thought had an image of Mother Mary on it was presented with no critical analysis. It was just presented as a true fact. Things like this have two effects:
1. True apparitions are diminished. There are apparitions that are valid. They have been investigated and have been deemed "worthy of belief." You're not REQUIRED to believe, but belief should not result in spiritual harm and may provide some spiritual good. But there are many, many, MANY others out there that are not valid -- they have not been investigated, or they have been investigated and found to be hoaxes, supernatural but not demonic, or of demonic origin. Yet they are presented through these YouTube videos as having the same authority as the ones that have been found valid. This results in conflicting testimony, causing people to reject the spiritually healthy along with the spiritually toxic.
2. False apparitions are magnified. This is the flip side of the first one. Rather than rejecting all apparitions, people are encouraged to believe in ALL apparitions, even the ones that are spiritually toxic. This is what I call "The Florida Outpouring Effect": if it's supernatural, it must be from G_D. Again, no critical analysis to judge or discern the effects or the messages, and the Pied Piper leads all the children to be sold into slavery.
If you're going to be looking for videos of supernatural events, look for ones that have been investigated. When I talk about apparitions or miracles that are declared "worthy of belief", I'm not talking about some people hanging around a hotel bar saying, well gee, it looks real. ALL the evidence is examined by professionals, focusing on their particular specialty. The professionals should not be Catholic and if possible should be non-Christians or against Christianity.
If you really want to know how the process works, get a copy of "Report on the Shroud of Turin" by John H. Heller. It's over 20 years old, so you'll have to get it from the library or buy a used copy. It's a layman's guide to the first full-blown scientific study of the Shroud that was done back in 1978 by the Shroud of Turin Research Project, or STuRP, Inc., and it shows you how much effort goes into determining the truth of something like this: after all the research and number crunching and scientific discovery, when push came to shove not one scientist on the team would say conclusively that this was the burial shroud of Jesus. Finally, someone asked, "Have you found anything that would conclusively say that this is NOT the burial shroud of Jesus?" The answer was no, they could not prove that.
(BTW, the image on the front of the book was done at the Air Force Academy in Colorado. One of the scientists in STURP worked there. He took the data from the Shroud, fed it into a lathe, and created a 3-D representation of the man in the Shroud.)
You could also read up on the image on the tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Pretty amazing.
<><
Shalom, all! When I get to thinking about what might be happening around the bend, I think I need to remember what Hanrahan said:
Said Hanrahan by P J Hartigan (aka ‘John O’Brien’)
"We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan
In accents most forlorn
Outside the church ere Mass began
One frosty Sunday morn.
The congregation stood about,
Coat-collars to the ears,
And talked of stock and crops and drought
As it had done for years.
"It’s lookin’ crook," said Daniel Croke;
"Bedad, it’s cruke, me lad
For never since the banks went broke
Has seasons been so bad."
"It’s dry, all right," said young O’Neil,
With which astute remark
He squatted down upon his heel
And chewed a piece of bark.
And so around the chorus ran
"It’s keepin’ dry, no doubt."
"We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"Before the year is out.
"The crops are done; ye’ll have your work
To save one bag of grain;
From here way out to Back-O’-Bourke
They’re singin’ out for rain.
"They’re singin’ out for rain," he said,
"And all the tanks are dry."
The congregation scratched its head,
And gazed around the sky.
"There won’t be grass, in any case,
Enough to feed an ***;
There’s not a blade on Casey’s place
As I came down to Mass."
"If rain don’t come this month," said Dan,
And cleared his throat to speak –
"We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan, "
If rain don’t come this week."
A heavy silence seemed to steal
On all at this remark;
And each man squatted on his heel,
And chewed a piece of bark.
"We want an inch of rain, we do,"
O’Neil observed at last;
But Croke "maintained" we wanted two
To put the danger past.
"If we don’t get three inches, man,
Or four to break this drought,
We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"Before the year is out."
In God’s good time down came the rain;
And all the afternoon
On iron roof and window-pane
It drummed a homely tune.
And through the night it pattered still,
And lightsome, gladsome elves
On dripping spout and window-sill
Kept talking to themselves.
It pelted, pelted all day long,
A-singing at its work,
Till every heart took up the song
Way out to Back-O’-Bourke.
And every creek a banker ran,
And dams filled overtop;
"We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"If this rain doesn’t stop."
And stop it did, in God’s good time:
And spring came in to fold
A mantle o’er the hills sublime
Of green and pink and gold.
And days went by on dancing feet,
With harvest-hopes immense,
And laughing eyes beheld the wheat
Nid-nodding o’er the fence.
And, oh, the smiles on every face,
As happy lad and lass
Through grass knee-deep on Casey’s place
Went riding down to Mass.
While round the church in clothes genteel
Discoursed the men of mark,
And each man squatted on his heel,
And chewed his piece of bark.
"There’ll be bush-fires for sure, me man,
There will, without a doubt;
We’ll all be rooned," said Hanrahan,
"Before the year is out."
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Shalom, all! This comes from www.spirit-digest.com, from their section called:
TEOTWAWKI Christian Blogs
NOT the end of the world. The end of the world as we know it (TEOTWAWKI)
August 2008
Aug 5
Two Jewish Signs of End Time
Jesus emphasized the significance of these two signs in His teaching. He mentioned both of them in His "Olivet Discourse," delivered to His disciples during the last week of His life.
Regarding the re-establishment of the state of Israel, He told his disciples to watch "the fig tree," because when it blooms again, all the things prophesied about the end times will come to pass (Matthew 24:32-34). The fig tree is one of the symbols of Israel in the Hebrew Scriptures (Hosea 9:10, Jeremiah 24:1-10, and Joel 1:7).
The day before, while walking with His disciples, Jesus had spotted a fig tree with no fruit. He pointed to the tree and put a curse on it. The tree immediately withered (Matthew 21:19). This action was a symbolic prophecy pointing to the fact that the wrath of God would be poured out on Israel because the nation had rejected its Messiah.
The next day Jesus referred back to this fig tree and said to watch for it to rebloom one day. "When it does," He said, "the generation that sees it bloom will not pass away until all the end time events take place" (Matthew 24:34).
The fig tree bloomed on May 14, 1948. We are the terminal generation.
In the same discourse Jesus said for His followers to watch Jerusalem. "The Jews will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all the nations," He prophesied. Then, He added, "Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
Forty years after He spoke these words, the first part of His prophecy was fulfilled as the Romans conquered Israel, destroyed Jerusalem, and scattered the Jews worldwide. Jerusalem passed from the Romans to the Byzantines, and from them to the Arabs, the Crusaders, the Mamelukes, the Turks, the British, and — finally — the Jordanians.
For 1,897 years Jerusalem was under Gentile control. The liberation came on June 7, 1967. It is the surest sign that our time is short.
Aug 4
There are 7 specific things He has spoken that He hates. Do you know them? Proverbs 6:16-19 tells us, “There are six things which the LORD hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers.
Aug 2
Three Judgments coming to the U. S.
Below prophecy was given to a unknown church by Pastor John Mulinde of Uganda, Africa. God gave him prophecy for America in three areas of judgment. It is a long sermon but I cut it short to the point. 1. spirit of mammon2. pride of human achievement3. excess of liberty God gave choice for American Christian to repent or take judgment. If you want I can send his whole sermon in writing.*
“Three waves of judgment are about to hit this nation.
The first one is going to be a judgment against the spirit of mammon. Because money has become a god to My people and has replaced My place, I am going to bring judgment on the spirit of mammon in this land.
I am going to bring a second judgment that is going to be against the pride, the pride of human achievement, the spirit of ‘I can do it, we can do it ourselves, we don’t need God’. “I am going to break the pride of human achievement until the time will come when men will know there is a higher power than themselves.
The third judgment is going to come against the excesses of human liberties where men have demanded liberties beyond the boundaries of My standard. My hand is still holding back the consequences of their choices, but a day is coming when My hand shall be removed and the consequences of their choices will come like a flood upon them. Then everything they yearned for is going to bear fruit and then they will know that My standard has got life and the ways of the world are only death. The sin of this land has reached up to Me like the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Aug 1
From Sept.1--Sept 29 Days on Jewish Calendar Align with Ours! (This is rare)
Before September 1, 2008 the Jewish calendar days move farther apart, but starting with September 1 you have the Jewish month/day (Elul 1) and when you get to September 29 you have the Jewish month/day (Elul 29). For Catholics this is the Feast of the Archangels who may blow their horns on the "Feast of the Trumpets"
But after that the Jewish days grow farther apart from our calendar. It is like the Lord is causing both calendars to mesh together for this exact time in history, which will lead us right up to the start of the Jewish fall feasts that start on the very day the two calendars cease to match up : September 29, 2008 The Feast of Trumpets!
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Shalom, all! Lisa, here's an article that talks about just the thing I was mentioning earlier:
AN EXPLOSION OF HOLY 'IMAGES': CAN IT BE A MESSAGE FROM GOD OR SIMPLY RIDICULOUS?
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I haven't had a chance to post much lately. Hope you all have had a good night's sleep upon reading this.
May God comfort and bless us all, in Jesus' name, Amen.
Maranatha!
Nick Vujicic – Life Without Limbs
Jim C.
The calander line up is really something! Have not heard of that before.
So it's rare to line up? This year is special?
(Jib-what do you think?)
Lisa
interesting follow up article about the whole blood red moon theory, apparently some Christians have decided that they should start practicing Christianity with OT practices as messianic Christians although none of them are Jewish.
Hebrew Roots
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand how cool would that be to attend a messianic service. On the other hand I can't help but think of the fighting in the early church about this very thing-Jewish believers insisting that gentile believers weren't Christian because they didn't practice their faith in worship the same fashion.
so I have a question for you all about Jewish weddings. It has been widely said that the Rapture is based on the concept of the Jewish wedding since we the church are Christ's bride. Does anyone know the gritty details like
-how long an engagement can be? Is it years, months, done as children etc. since it seems to me that the longer the potential engagement is, the more likely the bridegroom is to have a working knowledge of a general time frame such as this year but I'm not telling you when.
-I know the bridegroom doesn't know the exact day or hour but does he even really know the month or year? Much has been made of we can't know the day or hour but that perhaps we could know the month, group of months or even year (although as an aside I thought I remembered something somewhere about not even knowing the season but perhaps that was for something else) but does the Jewish bridegroom know these things or is it really and truly a complete surprise to him as well.
I would have to guess that for a "short" engagement that he wouldn't likely know even the month for a longer engagement he likely would. however this is all about the bridegroom what does the bride know?
does a jewish bride know even with a longer engagement that the time is to be soon or is she taken off guard always. Which rather puts the bride motif into a different perspective for us? If the bride never knows, she always has to be ready day or night for however long before her bridegroom comes to get her. She can never not be ready. Can any of you who have planned your weddings imagine having to keep plans functioning for the celebration 24/7 for an indefinite length of time? wow.
it's an interesting fact but not sure in the scheme of things it really means much. may be it does. it would be a great thing if it did mean what we want it to mean.
my take on the whole calendar thing is that I think it is the Jewish calendar that is most important in the scheme of things. With the exception of the Rapture, most end times stuff that is prophesied is for Israel not necessarily the church so it would make sense that the Jewish calendar is more important. The fact that our calendar lines up with the Jewish calendar isn't surprising-it does occasionally happen that Easter and Passover are at the same time as well.
I find the blood red moon stuff compelling but not necessarily convincing. I also find it more compelling than the whole Purim thing.
Scott,
so my ancestors knew your ancestors-small world. One of my mother's ancestor's came over on the Mayflower as well. in fact as nearly as we can tell most of my mother's family has been either in Canada or the US starting with the Mayflower. Some came over later but I do believe most were here prior to the Revolutionary war. My dad's family came over much later-the early 1800's.
Grany
I didn't say it was all bunk but after having watched all the videos the one thing he does consistently do is plug his book and tapes. I did find that there is one well still classified and capped in the area he spoke of it just doesn't happen to be from when he said it was. As I said, it wouldn't surprise me if some of the conspiracy theory stuff is true since we do know that there will be a one world government which would mean the end of the US as we know it. That's a sad thing because I think the US is great and a great place to live. But, I'm also a bit of a realist in that I know it will have to pass away at some point.
Jim
well when I used to make my chili I did use both beans and meat-heresy I know. I don't make it much anymore since I have discovered that the reason it and other things bother my stomach is that I am allergic to black pepper and all other members of the pepper family. makes me quite sick to my stomach etc. no swelling, throat closing off but the rest is still quite bad enough.
as I was pondering things yesterday, I realized an interesting thought.
So you all realize that since the Temple fell to the Romans, thus fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel, that nearly all subsequent empires and control of the world has been done
1-by the western part of the Roman Empire:Spanish, French, Germans, English, American (after a fashion we are trying empire building in that we are trying to spread our way of life onto other people who may or may not want it)
2-it's all been done by force
3-there have been varying degrees of success but nothing that quite measures up to the government in the time of the AC.
the exceptions of course being the Huns and mongol hordes, Russia, China and Japan.
so where does that leave us and what do you think satan has learned from this about world domination and in particular the use of force? No wonder the AC presents himself as a man of peace when he really isn't. Guile, not force is what has been learned.
btw
thanks for your prayers about job for brother and hubby's aunt.
he has a job offer although contract not signed yet and she came through surgery very well and has the almost lowest stage disease possible.
as a final heretical thought I also present my musings on prayer yesterday. I do fully believe that God answers prayer, just not always how we want it answered. this is copied btw from an email I sent someone else-
"I did have one nearly heretical thought however about Abraham and God and Sodom and does praying really change God's mind- as many people point out that passage as evidence that prayer changes God's mind. I think it's a poor passage to use since I think it may be giving a different message. And I don't know that an answer to prayer means that God's mind has been changed as an aside.
Really, God said IF you find this many righteous then I will not destroy-and it likely was a very small number. If there were at least 1000 people living there, not destroying for what was it 10 people, means that God was willing to spare the city for a mere 0.1% of the population. That's amazing. But does any one really think that the God of the universe didn't know exactly how many righteous people there were in that city? So He knew that the destruction would be as planned even though Abraham did not. What does that tell us?
One, God doesn't change his mind about something that is bad for us even when we want it really really badly.
Two, this IS however a picture of the extraordinary lengths that God goes to to show His mercy to humanity. In other words, "I know you all think I'm just about vengeance but let me show you my love-if only 0.1% of people are righteous then I'll stay my hand out of love, compassion and mercy." That is truly amazing! God did this to show Abraham that His ways are always right, His ways are always just and that He has a huge amount of love, compassion and mercy on humanity!
The more I consider the OT, the less I find a God of vengeance and the more I find the God of love that we see in the NT."
ps it might not have been 10 since I didn't really bother to look it up but the thought remains the same-God was willing to stay His hand for an incredibly small number of people.
Shalom, all! I have a prayer request.
I just spoke with my Russian ex-wife Lena. Her parents live in Kislovodsk, a city that is just to the north and west of South Ossetia, where the fighting is going on. She cannot reach her parents by telephone today; but earlier she heard from them that they can hear the bombing going on. The region is mountainous, and the sound reflects off the mountains for great distances. There's also a phenomenon that seems strange to us: hail. Every time there is a bomb barrage in Georgia, it's followed some time later by hail in Kislovodsk. The reason is that the bomb blasts force air through the mountain valleys and up the sides of the mountains, where the moisture cools and collects as hail, which fall to the north of the bombing.
I'm asking that you pray not only for peace in Georgia but for my ex-in-law's safety. They are in their mid to late 70's and do not want to become refugees.
Hi Jim,
I've been spending the last 2 days following the Georgian/Russian developments. There's a very active thread going at Rapture Ready's site with lots of insight into the eventualities that this conflict might bring, prophetically speaking. I've been praying for all those involved, especially the innocent civilians, so I guess I've been praying for your family without knowing it! Now I can pray specifically for their safety and calm in the midst of this terrible situation.
If everyone hasn't taken a look at the map yet, check out and see how gaining Georgia (for Russia) would bring them alot closer to Israel's border. Only Turkey stands in the way after that and they've been showing signs of wobbling away from the West lately, too.
Could be the hook we've been waiting for?
Blessings,
Jen
Lisa,
In response to your response, =), we know from scripture that the church is full of tares, look-a-like Christians. (Mt. 13) That means they are probably also producing look-a-like fruit. Jesus said sometimes the gospel will fall on thorny soil. This is the man who hears the word and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it becomes "unfruitful". As one who understands scripture to say that faith is a gift/work of God and He will preserve that faith, I would understand the individual in this parable never to have had a work of God wrought in his heart. John 15:16 tells us that Jesus followers are chosen by Him, we don’t choose Him (salvation from God’s perspective). His chosen are appointed to bear fruit which remains. We have a large Ukrainian community in Tacoma, WA, close to where I live. Some of the Ukrainian believers fellowship with us from time to time because we have a sister church in Ukraine. They tell us that some who fellowshipped with them in Ukraine, after migrating to the US, are no longer in fellowship but are pursuing worldly treasures. We are a wealthy nation so I agree that the deception of riches is great here. But I think these hearts were never hearts prepared for God’s work of salvation by the Holy Spirit otherwise they would have remained.
I watched the Paul Washer video awhile back that someone directed us to while we were meeting at Joel’s. I’ll never forget the story Paul told of a young boy who begged for his life but through tears he said he could not deny Christ. In spite of his pleas, that boy was killed. God loved that boy, doing a work in his heart, and that young boy loved the Lord to the very end, proving God had wrought that work. (Rm. 8:38-39)
If that boy were spared his life and ended up here in America from some reason, I am one hundred percent convinced that His love for the Lord would continue in spite of the temptation to follow after riches. Why? Because salvation is a work of God and God preserves His work.
...and for those whom God has done a work in the heart and has also blessed with great wealth, if they were placed in a situation like that young boy, deny Christ and live, they would not deny Christ because the love with which God loved them would love Him to the end, even if it meant death.
Jib,
I've noticed on a couple of sites that some Christians are heading toward the Messianic movement.
It's probably a natural outcropping of realizing the Jewish heritage, feast, & timing in God's prophetic clock.
But should the pendulum swing that far in the other direction?
Even my suspicions come to surface in this one.
I think of Jesus obeying the Jewish laws of His day yet He came to abolish the old Law w/His sacrifice.
So what exactly would He want us to do? He's not thrilled w/the Jews remaining in the old law instead of acknowledging Him as the Messiah yet we know the 3rd Temple is to be built & the Jews will continue w/sacrifices & old laws in the near future.
This is God's plan for the Jews. But-it's not His plan for the Christians.
Then we have the Millennial Temple & City now called "Yahweh Shammah" or "The Lord is there." EZ 48:35.
Ezekiel 40-43. If you read the "rules" it's really strict!!!
Chuck Smith noted that these Millennial sacrifices will look back to what was done on the cross. Similar to Communion for us.
The Lord comes into the Temple by way of the East Gate.(Ezekiel 43)
...."Son of man, describe the temple to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities; and let them measure the pattern.And if they are ashamed of all that they have done, make known to them the design of the temple.....Write it down in their site,so that they may keep its whole design and all its ordinances, and perform them...
The surrounding land is divided up for the Jews but says they will dwell w/strangers and have children with them who will also be part of this inheritance. EZ47:21. There will still be death but live long.
(I don't know enough to tell if the new sacrifice rituals & laws are a repeat of the old or completely new ones but for Israel it is called "The new covenant.)
Isaiah 2 says "And all nations will flow to it....He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths...He shall judge between the nations,And rebuke many people....
Isaiah 57:7 "Even them (gentiles) I will bring to my Holy Mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings & their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar;For My house will be call a house of prayer for all nations."
(The healing waters & trees are an interesting read Ezekiel 47)
Zech 14:16 "And it shall come to pass in that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.(And if you don't-no rain for you.)
Rev 20:6 ....."And they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Christ a thousand years."
(All the priests listed in Isaiah are from Jewish tribes which do the sacrifices & rituals in the Millennial temple. So I wonder what the Gentile Saint priests will do.)
Amos 9:14 "I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them.....
But when "New Jerusalem" is brought down from heaven onto the New Heaven & New Earth after the Millennium there is no temple in it.(Rev 21:22 "For I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.")
(New Jerusalem is also called the "bride”, the Lamb's wife. Rev 21:2)
If we back up to Rev 3:12
"He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down from heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name."
The saints won't become an actual stone "pillar" (at least I hope not) so what does- make him a "pillar in the temple" mean? A pillar holds up a structure. So it it a position of upholding the statues of God? and "they will not go out no more." They won't leave New Jerusalem or leave Christ?
Eph 2:19.......having been built on the foundation of the apostles & prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building,being fitted together,grows into a holy temple in the Lord,in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
So back to the Messianic movement I don't know if God would be pleased w/Christians incorporating it or substituting it or not.
Any other thoughts?
Overcomer,
The Ukraine Christian story is a prime example of those falling away from faith. That doesn't mean they never had it to begin with.
It didn't take torture or death to separate the wheat from the tares. All it took was a move to America.
Since your view is more of a Holy Spirit on auto pilot - what about those who were in Christ-fell away-then came back? (some of those Ukraine Christians may eventually realize they've been foolish and come back to Christ)
Did the gas run out & needed refueling? Or was the Holy Spirit just on a break? The ground was in need of some fertilizer to re-sprout? Is there a short circut? (Now I'm getting goofy)
If faith is a gift/work of God and He will preserve that faith then
why does it fail some for a period of time yet to regain it again later?
Doesn't seem right to me.
'Oil, Israel and Iran' Among Factors that Led to Georgia War
This relatively new pipeline passes through Azerbaijan and Georgia to Turkey and is the only pipeline between Asia and Europe that does not pass through Russia or Iran. Israel is expecting to receive oil and gas through the pipeline.
Russian and Georgian media reported several days ago that Israel decided to stop its support. Russia bombed a Georgian military plant in which Israeli experts are upgrading jet fighters for the Georgian military.Israel decided to stop it's support for Georgia after Moscow made it clear to Jerusalem and Washington that Russia would respond to continued aid for Georgia by selling advanced anti-aircraft systems to Syria and Iran.
Eight Jews were scheduled to arrive from Georgia to Israel Sunday evening and dozens more intend to make Aliyah to the Jewish state,
Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Gregory Karasin :
"The West behaved strangely in the first hours of the attack on South Ossetia," Karasin said, and added that "the U.S.A.'s negative attitude" would be "taken into consideration in the future in contacts about other global questions."
MIRACLES, MIRACLES!
Shalom, all! Given yesterday's link to a site on "Holy Images", I thought today I'd provide links that shows G_D's miraculous love for each and every one of us:
The Gift Of Healing Hands This is the story of a Canadian woman who was given the gift of healing. She tried denying it for a long time, until someone told her her "itching hands" were a sign that the Holy Spirit wanted to use her hands for something. Recently she has been given visions too.
No One Can Explain Shroud of Turin Pictures of Jesus Everyone thought the Shroud of Turin was finally proved a forgery after the 1988 carbon-dating tests. Only thing was, the tests were flawed. Instead of taking some of the original Shroud, they took fabric that had been used to repair the Shroud after the fire in 1532. New chemical tests indicate the Shroud may be 2000 years old. And still, no one can explain how the image of a crucified man came to be on it.
New Discoveries of the Constellations on the Tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe (This is a PDF file, so it might take some time to show up on your screen.) For the past few day, Juan Diego, a poor Indian, had been seeing "a beautiful lady" on his path to church every morning. The lady kept asking Juan to tell the Archbishop of Mexico that she wanted a church to be built on that spot. When the Archbishop relayed his request that the lady identify herself, she told Juan to come back tomorrow morning. On December 12, 1531 AD, Juan Diego appeared at the Archbishop's residence with his tilma (a simple coarse cape) filled with roses. (Roses don't bloom in Mexico in December.) When he opened the tilma to dump the roses on the floor, though, everyone in the room saw a picture had appeared on the tilma.
This picture, "Our Lady of Guadalupe", has been a continuing miracle for over 450 years. The tilma itself should have deteriorated 400 years ago, but it is as fresh and supple as if it had been made yesterday. No one can explain how the image was put on there or what was used to create it, yet it's so lifelike that an ophthalmologist who was examining the eyes on the image to see if there was something in there, he found himself saying, "Look up, please" as he would to a patient. One art expert said the texturing and shading on the image more closely resembles the texturing and shading of a bird's feather, i.e., it is almost organic (like the image is alive) rather than artificial (if it had been painted.)
This report details the discoveries involving the stars on the Lady's mantle. The stars on the mantle match the sky pattern that occured over Mexico City at dawn on December 12, 1531 AD, including the crescent moon she is standing on. There is a great deal of symbolism involved in the constellations that are displayed, not mentioning the number of stars on her mantle: 46. One of her titles is "Patroness of the Unborn"; it just so happens that 46 is the number of human chromosones.
Hawaii teacher's cure clears way for a new saint Many people have heard of "Father Damien". NO, not the priest from "The Exorcist"! I'm talking about Father Damien, the priest who worked with the lepers on Molokai, until he caught the disease and died of it in 1889. He is now on the way to being proclaimed a saint.
And now something I'd never thought of before:
Is a tsunami actually possible in Lake Tahoe as a result of an earthquake? Check about halfway down the page for the answer.
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Lisa, Shalom! RE: your message of 5:06 PM on the Christians being involved with the Messianic Movement;
I have some answers to that.
But you won't like them.
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Jen, Shalom! I've been ignoring the war in Georgia because I know I would find it just too distressing. I know how the Russian Army acts and I know what's happening on the ground now. All I'm doing is praying that the people of Georgia find a new saint to fight the dragon.
(In case you didn't know, Georgia has the strongest case for being the land where Saint George fought the dragon, preserving the land for Christianity. That's why the land is called "Georgia".)
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Lisa
honestly I do have mixed emotions on that.
I can see where for messianic Christians it would be quite meaningful and I think very appropriate to observe the feasts as both Jews and Christians. Jews for Jesus came around Easter I think one year at our church and did a presentation on the Seder and how it is completely fulfilled in Christ and his death. It was quite an eye opening way to look at communion.
If you think about it, gentile and Jewish Christians might always have had semi separate ways of worshiping. I mean the priests of Peter and Paul's day certainly weren't going to let a bunch of non jews come in and worship at the temple if there was one there so they must have developed there own patterns or adopted patterns of worship.
One of the interesting things that I have noted is that both the order of service in the RCC Mass and the Jewish services (not messianic but traditional Judaism) are almost identical. It was eye opening to say the least.
Oddly enough when I hear Joel Rosenberg speak about being a Jewish Christian I have a deep yearning and longing to celebrate the feasts. I asked my dad if our german ancestors were jewish and he said that there was a very high likelihood of that being true, although centuries ago, because the family tends to be very dark hair, very dark eyes, big roman noses, darker complexion etc. (My brother in grade school was mistaken for being Jewish by his teacher based solely on his looks and name) We don't look the least bit Aryan at all (well I do a little because of the intermixing of Scot's blood but my eyes are still a dark brown, my brother's are nearly black, and my hair is brown with bottle blond in spots :-) )! Since my German ancestors who migrated to the states were catholic it certainly suggests that there might have been a forced conversion at one point. I would love to be able to prove it one way or the other but doubt that would even be possible. It has only been since the Berlin wall fell that we would even have access to any records because they came from what was East Germany.
I digress. The real danger is that we'll get back to the arguments that Paul and Peter had to deal with in their day about who the "real" Christian was.
funny joke from church today
Henry didn't want to get out of bed and go to church. His wife came in and demanded Henry get out of bed and go to church. When he continued to refuse, she demanded that he supply her with 3 good reasons that he shouldn't go. OK says he-
1-I don't get anything out of it
2-the people aren't nice
3-no one likes me there
The wife considered this. He countered with, "give me 3 good reasons that I should go". Ok
1-you will go and you will get something out of it
2-there are some nice people there who do like you and
3- you have to go because you're the pastor!
Jim
will be praying for them.
Ii didn't want to clutter up this blog with some amusing photo links that were sent to me but if you go to the reply section of my blog I did post them there.
guess who's in charge and I doubt any of you will be surprised!
Guess who is in charge now in Russia Georgia war and the opinion of current President of Russia perhaps not goo
Lisa,
The soil parable teaches that we are to throw seed wherever we go. We are not in charge of the soil conditions however, that is God's job. Initial roots can only prove authentic when they produce fruit. I think the Lord was teaching that the only true believers in that parable are the ones with good soil. God is always thorough. When He prepares the soil it can be considered good. When He chooses not to prepare the soil, it won’t produce. If after the seed of the gospel has been planted and a person falls out of fellowship and then returns, I think it shows the seed originally did fall on good soil.
There is responsibility on our part - we are to walk in obedience, to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We are created in Christ Jesus for good works...He appointed us to bear fruit...The soil parable also has a self-check mechanism - the hearer cannot listen and not ask themselves, what kind of fruit am I producing?
I thought I'd throw the cat amongst the pigeons:
Why Date-Setting the Rapture is Wrong
Oh, and don't yell at me - take it up with Dr Ice.
Tisha B'Av, Marks Ninth of Av Fast Day - Birthday of the Messiah
Tisha B'Av survey reveals biggest fear
Killed Syrian Aide Gave Anti-Aircraft Missiles to Hizbullah
Hizbullah received advanced launchers
Hizbullah's reach extends far beyond Lebanon, poses global threat
Georgia: Russia 'invades new province' as South Ossetia conflict escalates
Russia expanded bombing blitz against US-allied Georgia, targeting capital for first time while Georgian troops pulled out
US: Fighting could have major impact on US-Russian ties
For seven years, Israeli companies helping Gerogian army prepare for war
Sarkozy proposes plan to end fighting
'Oil, Israel and Iran' Among Factors that Led to Georgia War
Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia
Russians seek wisdom, powers, peace of the mysterious pyramid
How sad
Georgia: Russia targets key oil pipeline with over 50 missiles
Georgia offers ceasefire as fighting continues and Georgia offers ceasefire as fighting continues
Russia's rising Oil video
LOST SOVEREIGNITY: OIL-RICH FUND EYEING FORECLOSED US HOMES
Ukraine reserves right to bar Russian ships from entering their Crimean base
EU diplomats fly out to mediate in Russia-Georgia war
Russia declares itself ready to make peace with Georgia
UPDATE: Tyson plant adds Muslim holiday, keeps Labor Day
Renewed bomb attacks kill five in China
Mac - you're doing just fine.
Thank you!
Jim C.
Well? What's your answer?
Are you baiting me?
Although I like to study the feasts & Jewish history-at this point I don't think Gentile Christians should try to become Jews.
What I'm trying to figure out is what would be the Satanic advantage of convincing Christians to do this? It may not be an evil plan at all but just in case I can't help but consider the possibility.
Jim C.
Well? What's your answer?
Are you baiting me?
Although I like to study the feasts & Jewish history-at this point I don't think Gentile Christians should try to become Jews.
What I'm trying to figure out is what would be the Satanic advantage of convincing Christians to do this? It may not be an evil plan at all but just in case I can't help but consider the possibility.
Hi Folks,
What is going on in Russia-Georgia seems to be big.
I have to start from scratch to understand to it all clearly...so I appreciate the links about it and will check them out all.
I hope you are all well.
<><
JIM C. I tried to post a response to your request for prayers relating to your situation in Georgia-Russian conflict but something kept deleting my comments last night. LISA: Little Green Aliens, I'll bet.
Any way Jim, I started praying as soon as I read your request.
MAC, I agree whole heartedly about date setting of the rapture. Based on what the scriptures say and also, the huge mistakes of previous centuries of date setting, I decided that God wants it to be a secret and you all know, HE IS BIGGER THAN ME! Besides all of the rack-n-frack surrounding it, Abba Father is waiting for the very last soul to be saved and I can live with that.
Besides, he doesn't need my approval.
Love you all, and it is a wonderful slow gentle rain here in Okieland this morning. Breezes coming into the kitchen and the birds are singing in between showers.
Ah, God is on his throne and we are in his hands.
Grany
Mac;
MRAOUW?
<><
JIM CARROLL
Jim just cough it up and you will feel so much better.
Grany
Grany,
Does Jim C. have a hairball?
MEOW-RAOUW?
Donna here is another newsweek article:
The Western-looking leaders of Russia and Georgia have locked horns in a fight that puts the smaller nation squarely at a disadvantage.
I guess you can say Georgia "started" it but didn't they know Russia would take it to the next level & have them for lunch?
They have every right to try and get their occupied land back. Were they over confident w/the training & weapons? Did they think the US or Israel would come to their rescue? Did they think Russia would not take advantage of the situation and go bizerk?
It makes me ill thinking about it.Russia is still going at it.
Joel R. has a new post & emailed it but says he's having difficulty posting it to his site.
The Western-looking leaders of Russia and Georgia have locked horns in a fight that puts the smaller nation squarely at a disadvantage.
Lisa, Shalom! Baiting you? BAITING YOU? How can you POSSIBLY consider that? (He said as he poured M&Ms into the bowl placed in the suspiciously clear area of the forest...)
Seriously, this goes back to something I brought up some time ago: various Catholic end-times prophecies. These are prophecies that have been describing the same events in different ways since about the year 400. One consistent prophecy is that the Jews will convert to Catholicism. Other prophecies refer to a Warning, a Great Sign, and a Chastisement.
So one theory goes like this: The world experiences the Warning (aka the Illumination of Conscience) when every person in the world sees themselves the way G_D sees that person. It is one of the great acts of Mercy given to us by G_D, so that we can change our lives around. About a year after the Warning (which means anywhere from 11 months to 15 months afterward) there will be The Great Sign. The visionaries at Garabandal (Spain) say they will be told five days before the Great Sign that it is time to tell the world when it will happen, to give people time to spread the word and to prepare. It will be something that you can see and photograph or show on TV, but you can't touch, and it will be visible to everyone in the world. Some visionaries (not from Garabandal) say it will be a cross in the sky, but that could also be a symbolic way of describing it. Whatever it is, there will be no way to dismiss it -- people will either accept it as a sign from G_D and turn to Christ, or they will reject it completely. The rejection will be either by saying it is a natural phenomenon that (given enough time) we can explain with science, or by saying it is the work of the devil.
You see, one of the effects of both the Warning and the Great Sign is that people will turn to the Catholic Church. Since it will have been the Catholic Saints who have been the prophecies that these events will occur, people will start returning to the Catholic Church -- INCLUDING THE JEWS! If the Great Sign occurs at the time of the War of Gog and Magog, then we have confirmation not only that the Jews are His Chosen People and that Temple Mount is His home, but that Jesus is His Son, the Messiah.
Thereafter, the Temple is rebuilt on Temple Mount; yet instead of the animal sacrifices being offered on the altar, we have the Sacrifice of the Mass celebrating the Sacrifice of the Lamb.
So in the past year or so, everyone in the world would have been touched by G_D, knowing they are loved by Him and knowing that they must change their lives; now here is this great Christian symbol in the sky, and people start returning to the Catholic Church in droves. EXCEPT for those people who cannot bring themselves to believe the Catholic Church is Christian, much less one that is blessed by G_D. These events are not in the bible and they are leading people AWAY from the truth, therefore...
... they must be evil. Like the temple priests in John 8:12-59 who rejected Jesus saying he must be possessed or from the devil, these people will reject the gifts of G_D and choose to follow the evil one, the Man of Evil, who has made a covenant with the Jewish people for the rebuilding of the Temple. For 3 and 1/2 years the Gentile Christians and the Jewish Christians each were witnesses and witnessed to the world in Jerusalem in the Temple. During this time the Man of Evil spoke words of peace but worked to incite those whose view of G_D's plan did not include Catholic worship in the Temple. And so the witnesses were killed in the streets of Jerusalem, and those Jews who did not want to accept Jesus as HaMessiach re-instituted blood sacrifice on the Temple Altar with the Man of Evil standing there as the High Priest spilling the blood of animals on the Altar, and all present praised and honored the Man who was able to bring this about...
Like I said, you wouldn't like it.
<><
drat I had a rather nice speculative post about the current situation in Georgia and how it could be the hook in Russia's jaw but it didn't make it to the site.
drat
you all will have to wait though cuz I'm busy right now
Lisa,
According to this article, many Georgians did think the U.S. would come to their rescue after Georgia helped the U.S. in Iraq. If I were them I would have expected some assistance as well.
We helped in Iraq - now help us, beg Georgians
Atty found the following really eye-opening articles that supply some good background to the conflict. Guess what. It is all about oil. Shocking isn't it?
Israel`s Stake in the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline
THE CAUCASUS MOUNTAINS,
GOG, MAGOG, AND CHEVRON OIL
This article really got my attention this morning:
Three major US naval strike forces due this week in Persian Gulf
LISA, the hair ball has to be the reason for the sound coming out of Jim C's comment. If he doesn't say something soon, I am going to have to call his brother to alert him to Jim's situation.
MAC do you know Nick, the man without limbs? I read the link you posted and watched the videos and that man is amazing. Seems that he can do more things without limbs than most Christians do with all four. WOW! What a testimony!
LISA, I tried to find RaptureReady's comment board but couldn't find it. What do you go to??
Grany
jim carrol,
Will this great sign you speak of perhaps occur on December 21st, 2012? :-)
grany,
You better be careful not to comment on anything at Rapture Ready's site. The only comment I ever left at the site was deleted by the moderators (even though I had carefully read their code of conduct and had not violated anything written in it) and Atty has been banned twice from the site. Their moderators have never heard of the word Berean and they certainly aren't looking to learn anything. They already know it all. :-)
From all the things you've been writing about, Jim C, I can definitely see that Catholics do not base their religion on the Bible and the Bible alone.
There are so many "extras", more than I ever realized, that are not biblically based.
There are so many biblically related things to focus on, that personally I prefer to focus on those, rather than all of these extras.
I, too, tried to get info from rapture ready re: Russia-Georgia but couldn't locate the info there either.
I think it was Jen who initially provided the Rapture Ready info to us (rather than Lisa, Grany)) so Jen could you point us to the Rapture Ready spot you mentioned?
Atty was banned from the Rapture Ready site? Gee!
I personally am not planning to comment on it or anything. I mainly want to check out info on that site regarding this Russian-Georgia fiasco...so we will be careful, Harold, thanks for alerting us about this :)
Donna,
Here is the link to the Rapture Ready forum:
http://www.rr-bb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35
The Rapture Ready forum is one of the most respected forums around. They do have rules that were put in place by Todd and Terry to ensure that their site is not compromised the way Joel's blog was.
There are a lot of Christians that are members of the forum that do not understand end time prophecy and some do not know their Bible very well. That is why the moderators give a warning first to those who break the rules that the site owners put into place.
I think it is a wonderful place and they have a lot of other forums besides end-time prophecy.
You should take a look at the other subject forums too.
Many of Joel's old regulars post on the Rapture Ready forum.
In Christ Alone,
Donnie
jim c;
I heard about those prophecies from the RC church some time ago also. Anyone interested in a "view" of these RC prophecies might want to look up Kathleen A. Keating and her book "The Final Warning". She also used to maintain a web site under her name. She discusses the "three days of darkness" part of these prophecies there. I definitely agree with donna on this, that they are not Biblically based, just more "extra stuff" from "saints" in the RC.
On the subject of Russia and Georgia; it looks like oil and gas may be the hook in the jaw for Russia. They have been busy behind the scenes buying and bargaining up the world oil and gas reserves and no one seems to notice or care, while we sit and legislate against any exploration over here (are we so blind or what...). Any comments?
Maranatha!
GT: given over to a spirit of delusion maybe?
Harold, not to worry about me at Rapture Ready commenting. I used to read the remarks there quite frequently but nothing really perked me up like our blogs do. Besides, they mistreated Jim Carrol and Grumpy so i will take the more gentle pathway to our discussions.
Besides all of that, I still believe in the freedom of speech.
Grany
well since my silly computer didn't copy my message over this am I'll try it again.
Lori posted a link to an article about Israel helping to arm or train Georgian troops so it is entirely possible that the war with Georgia could be the hook (as Jen posted earlier) rather than the gas/oil (since Russia is the 2nd largest producer and Israel has essentially a negligible amount unless Zion or the other company strikes oil soon I don't think the oil pipline in Georgia is cause enough although Europe won't protest too much about Georgia or anything Russia might do about Israel because they are REALLY dependent on Russia but I digress).
Putin apparently left the games to "handle" the situation. There was also a recent poll in Russia in which most Russians thought that Putin was more powerful than the President and tensions have been rising between the two. I doubt Putin went back for altruistic reasons such as the President wasn't handling the situation well and not resolving the situation. I see Putin going back to handle it because
1-he told the President to do this intentionally. He went back because the President couldn't handle what he (Putin) would see as a simple task-get control of Georgia to have a better stranglehold on gas and oil as well as the large port. OR he told him to do it intentionally hoping that it would make the President look bad and he Putin good and he would have to retake the reigns as an emergency
2-Can you imagine how hacked off Putin would be if Russia somehow loses face or does not accomplish their goals due to diplomatic pressure? He might decide to hold Israel responsible especially if Israel decides to help in any further fashion. A little illogical but not really that far fetched. Gas and oil would be the root and Putin very much wants a return of Russian power and glory. If a little country of Georgia could somehow manage to thwart a total victory or causing plans to fall through Putin might just go looking for the supplier of arms and training due to the loss of face. I would expect him to decimate Georgia on the way through btw.
3-Putin is aligning himself with the nut jobs in the ME who want Israel gone AND think that their Mahdi won't come on the scene until they cause lots of bloodshed. If you will recall the iranian nut job said the return of the Mahdi was imminent and gave a time reference in one of his prior speeches a couple of years ago. I seem to recall at the time that 2008 was the last year of that time reference.
The war of Gog and Magog could serve 2 purposes-punish Israel for Georgia (makes sense in a weird sort of way but not entirely logical but one never knows with megalomaniacs) AND cause lots of bloodshed to usher in the return of the Mahdi with the side benefit of destroying Israel in the bargain.
Did anyone notice how FAST Russia was able to do this?
It may also depend on the Georgian response to the lack of or perceived lack of response by their "friends".
Grumpy got banned TWICE? interesting although given some of his views not entirely unexpected (said with wry sense of humor and not meant to be insulting at least to Grumpy that is the folks at Rapture Ready however might be a different story) It has been said before that they are less than tolerant of thinking outside the box or tolerant of different views
Donna, Shalom! A few months ago I wrote out a long explanation to this board on Catholic Tradition, etc. in regards to another question. I had to delete it because it was just getting too long. I'll try again.
There are three legs of authority in the Catholic Church: Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium.
Sacred Scripture is the Bible. The Bible is the Word of G_D, but it's not necessarily the LITERAL Word of G_D. Sacred Scripture was not dictated to the writers (except for various prophets where they say they were commanded to write such-and-such). Thus, we believe it is the INSPIRED Word of G_D, and while there may have been many writers, there was only one author. There were many sacred writings available both in the Old Testament and New Testament periods. Deciding which ones had actually been inspired by G_D (as opposed to devout meditations) was a long and prayerful process involving the gift of discernment. The final Canon was decided primarily in the year 382 at the Synod of Rome, and was confirmed at the Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397 and 419). The Old Testament Canon was based on the Septuagint translation of Old Testament books, and which included the 7 "Deuterocanonical" books. This translation rather than other translations was used primarily because an examination of the Greek of the Septuagint and the Greek as written in the Gospels shows Jesus using the Septaugint Greek versions when quoting from the Old Testament. Since the Septuagint included the Deuterocanonical books, they were accepted as inspired and included in the Canon.
Above all, Catholics believe Sacred Scripture is true. Whether some of it is true in the literal sense, the metaphorical sense, the allegorical sense, etc. is a matter of discernment, but Sacred Scripture is true and cannot be added to or taken away from by anyone.
The next leg of authority is Sacred Tradition. It's generally accepted that the Gospels were written down between AD 50 and 70. And what happened when a Christian met some people on the road who hadn't heard the Good News? Did they whip out their New Testament Condensed Scroll? No, they talked! The great majority of teaching was done orally, where the students listened to the teacher. This is how the vast majority of the early Christians learned their faith. So Sacred Tradition existed before Sacred Scripture. Along with what was written down and passed around the Christian communities were many oral teachings that never got written down, at least not by the apostles. (Many of these were written down in the "Didache". You can find a copy at Early Christian Writings.) These oral traditions grew into what is called Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition grows as our understanding of Scripture and G_D's plans for us grows, and is used to help us understand Scripture. IT CANNOT CONTRADICT SCRIPTURE! If it contradicts Scripture, it cannot be part of Sacred Tradition.
The third leg is the Magisterium, the bishops, priests, and deacons. The bishops are the ones responsible for interpreting and teaching the Christian faith. The bishops can ONLY teach the Christian faith. No bishop, not even the Pope, can create new doctrine. If what is being taught by a bishop cannot be supported by Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, then what is being taught is heresy. And before you ask, yes, there have been popes who have been accused of and tried for heresy. (None were found guilty, thank G_D.)
So to summarize, the Bible (Scripture) is first and foremost, supported by Tradition and passed on to the faithful through the Magisterium. So, no, while Scripture is primary, it is not the only thing Catholics base their faith on. (Then again, there's no place in Scripture that SAYS Scripture is sufficient unto itself. ;-)
Donna, one thing I should have made clear at the beginning is that the Warning, the Great Sign, and the Chastisement are not Catholic Doctrines. They're not things that Catholics are required to believe in, and frankly, as I have described them, they don't qualify as "worthy of belief." (In fact, if you were to mention "Garabandal" or "The Warning" to most Catholics, I'll bet 99% would give you a blank look.) While these may not yet be worthy of belief, I still mention them because I believe the apparitions at Garabandal to be authentic. I believe that if The Warning occurs and people haven't at least heard of it, there will be unimaginable confusion and panic. So I try to mention it to as many people as possible. If it does not happen, then no harm has been done. If it DOES happen, then people are prepared.
<><
I only posted that rapture article because it was a new one at the pre-trib research center (I think) and because I'm an agitator. Unfortunately it didn't agaitate enough....hmmmmm.
Grany; I saw that Nick guy interviewed by 60 mins just recently and his attitude blew me away. He left me a little disgusted with myself. Very special man!
The Rapture Ready forums are pretty strict - I believe even David Lowe was ousted at one stage. There are several Pre-Trib sites that are more lenient. Also, the Fulfilled Prophecy (pre-wrath) site has several forums - pre-trib only, pre-wrath only and open for those who want to have a good bash at each other. I have read there in the past but never post. I'd probably get ousted too.
I think Russia knew and had planned well in advance their Georgia incursion.
It's probably part of a larger operation.... yet to come.
Russia has divided Georgia will it stop there? or since they are halfway to Israel will they just keep going. they could say to Turkey join or be taken over. one never knows.
Obama as antichrist
The Global ambition of Rick Warren
the article on Rick warren was a little creepy to read on the heels of the Obama as AC article since Warren is having both BHO and McCain at Saddleback and has yet to "bless" one of them with his seal of approval. Interestingly enough the article quotes Warren as saying he doesn't think the "sin issues" should be the test of who is the best candidate and won't be giving a "christianity test" to either. per the article Warren is more concerned with what is best for the world. If Warren backs BHO I might have to turn to the yes you can lose your salvation camp because him picking BHO for president because BHO is best for the world would seems a bit something. I'd like to say almost seem like the actions the false prophet might take but I don't want to falsely accuse Warren either although that would be my knee jerk reaction. I'm not saying Warren is a false prophet and not saying that he isn't a man of God but he sure does seem far more interested in making a mark on the world stage than pastoring his church-quite frankly I don't think in his role he should be publically endorsing EITHER candidate. He also belongs to the Council on Foreign Relations and thinks it quite an honor.
Three major US naval strike forces due this week in Persian Gulf
U.S. ship heads for Arctic to define territory
Bush warns Russia to pull back in Georgia
Georgia President says Russia cut country in half
US military surprised by speed, timing of Russia military action
Georgia withdraws forces from South Ossetia
Georgia 'overrun' by Russian troops as full-scale ground invasion begins
Georgian exit leaves vacuum near Iranian border "The departure of 2,000 Georgian soldiers from Iraq leaves a question mark over the future of a series of checkpoints along smuggling routes near the Iranian border, forcing the U.S. to shuffle units to fill the vacuum"
Russia opens new front, drives deeper into Georgia "The bombs that are falling on us, they have an inscription on them: This is for NATO. This is for the U.S.," Saakashvili told CNN
Russia readying 9000 extra troops
Bush told Russia to end military action in Georgia
NATO to hold emergency talks with Russia on Georgia
The bear is back
Analysis: Israel tiptoes around conflict
Glen Campbell has rock, religion on his mind "For two decades, the Campbells have been adherents of Messianic Judaism"
EU parliament chief praises Syria-Israel talks
Interfaithelite plan gathering for DNC
Jib; re the Obama article - interesting that the author discusses how many people drew a parallel to Carpathia. If the shoe fits....
Focus on Jerusalem site has a few articles on the current Russia/Georgia scenario:
click here
Jim C.
I wouldn't say "I wouldn't like it" but rather am somewhat shocked by the beliefs.
These views dovetail in w/end time senarios quite well but not in a postive light in my view of course.
"The world experiences the Warning (aka the Illumination of Conscience) when every person in the world sees themselves the way G_D sees that person."
Yikes! This ties in with all this Global Conscience movement!! It has more of a Biblical edge to it but the same never-the-less.
"About a year after the Warning (which means anywhere from 11 months to 15 months afterward) there will be The Great Sign."
A great sign? Oh my! This sounds like 2 Thess 2:9 or Rev 13:15.
"...the effects of both the Warning and the Great Sign is that people will turn to the Catholic Church."
Is this why some people have written Catholicism as being married to the end time deception?(I have not read these books)
Are the two witnesses Jews or Catholics? Now we have Catholic Jews?
So again the Catholic Church has the "the truth" proven by mind control (expansion) & great signs.All the other Christians & Jews are suppose to all become Catholic.
Maranatha!
jib,
You said "Lori posted a link to an article about Israel helping to arm or train Georgian troops so it is entirely possible that the war with Georgia could be the hook (as Jen posted earlier) rather than the gas/oil (since Russia is the 2nd largest producer and Israel has essentially a negligible amount unless Zion or the other company strikes oil soon I don't think the oil pipline in Georgia is cause enough although Europe won't protest too much about Georgia or anything Russia might do about Israel because they are REALLY dependent on Russia but I digress)."
I have to disagree. Israel has a HUGE stake in the oil pipeline going through Georgia, and so does the U.S. and the EU. This battle is all about oil. The fact that Israel and the U.S. trained the Georgian troops and the fact that Georgia is trying to join NATO (something that Russia wanted to do for years but was always turned down because the U.S. and others didn't want to share technology with them) are also factors, but they are way secondary to the battle for oil.
If you doubt that, you should read the articles I posted.
This is from one of the articles written in 2006:
"The Anglo-US Military alliance seeks to establish control over Central Asian oil and gas reserves as well as strategic pipeline routes. The most important strategic corridor is the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil and gas pipelines dominated by British Petroleum (BP). This corridor not only integrates the Caspian Sea to the Eastern Mediterranean, it is also slated to channel Central Asian oil and gas to a strategic pipeline corridor controlled by Israel.
Israel has become a potential partner in the Baku-Ceyhan oil pipeline, which is protected by GUAM, a US-NATO sponsored military alliance between Georgia, Azerbaijan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan and Moldava. What is envisaged is to link the BTC pipeline to the Trans-Israel Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline, also known as Israel’s Tipline, through a system of underwater pipelines, from Ceyhan to the Israeli port of Askshelon.
While the BTC pipeline is invariably described as a means of bypassing Russia and channelling Central Asian oil and gas to Western markets, part of this oil and gas is intended for re-export to the Asian market through the Red Sea port of Eilat. By linking the BTC to Israel’s pipeline system, Israel is slated to become a major player in the global energy market, in alliance with the Anglo-American oil giants.
Diverting Central Asian oil and gas to the Eastern Mediterranean (under Israeli military protection), for rexport to Asia, serves to undermine the inter-Asian energy market, which is based on the development of direct pipeline corridors linking Central Asia and Russia to South Asia, China and the Far East."
END QUOTE
Russia has been really revitalized economically by their sales of oil and gas (as well as a lot of military hardware to any psycho on the planet). However, Russia has a finite supply of oil, which they will run out of in the near future. This is one reason that Putin was trying to claim the North Pole. The Caspian Sea area is extremely important to Russia. It is going to be the new Persian Gulf in the very near future. Everyone is clamoring to get a piece.
The fact that this oil rich area used to belong to the Russian bear compounds the problem and is a real thorn in her paw. She wants her cubs back.
The proof of what Russia's intentions are will be seen soon. If they stop their push into Georgia soon and retreat, maybe they are just proving a point. If they continue their push past where the oil pipeline goes through Georgia, then we know that was all about oil.
Well, that and US wanted to put US missle defense shield there.
It's not just oil.... but it is oil.
You mentioned the NOrth Pole, did you check out the link I posted about the US sending a ship to the artic to define it's territory?
I guess everything is up for grabs... now that some of it is melting.
I found that Mc Cain-Obama ad on UTUBE
Oil in the last days...
He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him.
Luke 10:34
Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"
Rev. 6:6
I always thought that the warning (is it even a warning?) about oil and wine had to do with its value as a food commodity but then I see the reference in Luke where oil and wine are clearly used for their healing properties.
Jib, from your medical perspective, would the alcohol in the wine serve as an antisceptic and/or analgesic when poured on wounds?
Isn't it also interesting that oil often represents the Holy Spirit and we drink wine (or grape juice) in remembrance of Christ's sacrafice.
Anyway, just thought I'd throw this out in light of how "oil" (though not olive oil) seems to be so important to the world's economy and international relations. Presumably, it is (will be) a commodity that has eschatological implications.
Thoughts?
Jim G.
Oil for the Lampstand
"Command the Israelites to bring you clear oil of pressed olives for the light so that the lamps may be kept burning. In the Tent of Meeting, outside the curtain that is in front of the Testimony, Aaron and his sons are to keep the lamps burning before the LORD from evening till morning. This is to be a lasting ordinance among the Israelites for the generations to come."
Ex. 27:19-21
Jim
it would only be an analgesic if you drank it :-) depending on the alcohol content and how long you left it on it would make and acceptable antiseptic (alcohol has to be left on the skin for several minutes to actually act as an antiseptic).
as an oh by the way, on of the older remedies for open wounds of any depth is a very thick honey and sugar paste spread in the wound bed daily and covered with dressings.
olive oil on the other hand has been used straight as a skin conditioner and for conditions like cradle cap.
Harold
have they actually linked them up since that article because if they haven't it's kind of a mute point to an extent. yes they've lost a huge potential market but it was only a potential market not an actual market.
oddly enough the link posted by Mac and a couple of the further links posted by Lori give my theory some credibility. the article Mac posted gives more insight into just what the Israeli's did supply for Georgia and it might just be enough to hack off a megalomaniac.
yes the Russians want oil but they want a return to the glory of Russia as much if not more and they will crush anyone who stands in their way of that empire.
FYI - Rapture Ready also bans all discussions involving JR Church, Perry Stone, Steve Hadley, Mark Biltz and many other well respected pastors
Hi all,
Sorry for the delayed response to Donna (I think?)
I've spent the last few days READING the thread at RR about the Georgia/Russia conflict because I wasn't getting anything from the media outlets (cable or net) and found an active discussion going there. I don't typically spend any time at RR, just breeze through from time to time to see what's being discussed, so I can't speak to the strictness or lenience of it as compared with other sites. HOWEVER, having spent so much time there these past 48 hours, I can say that there was one instance when the moderator had to remind posters to stay on topic or move the discussion to another thread (rather than stay on the Georgia/Russia topic, they were moving into straight prophecy and starting to name names about Gog, etc.) It was handled well and no one had to leave. There was also an incident today when a poster questioned the mod about the rules against naming Gog/Magog when the RR index includes a Gog/Magog counter....the mod came back with an updated explanation of the rule (Magog can be speculated since it's the land, but not Gog, since that's an actual person...I think I got that right.) Again, it was handled well and the thread kept going (when I logged off it was at 1419 posts and still moving quickly because of all the breaking news.) I can only speak to this particular thread although I'm sure other topics have been handled differently.
I feel like I did when we watched TV round the clock during the opening hours of the 1st Iraq war when I was in high school. I wasn't into prophesy then, but I had the same deep-rooted feeling that things were going to change in ways that would impact us forever. Back then it was worrying about my boyfriend ending up in the draft! Today it's wondering how these last few pieces of the puzzle are going to shake out. I'm not afraid or fearful....those emotions have to get permission from Jesus to come against me! And there are lots of promises given to His children about that. But I still have a bit of butterflies as I imagine what will result from this major event (which, by the way, NO ONE seems to be paying attention to. That's one of the laments at the RR site and I'm dealing with it here, too.)
If you're looking for some really good analysis and newsgathering on the subject, I'd say it's a good thread to check out. There are several military minds contributing, some people from other parts of the world who are seeing other perspectives and lots of encouragement and excitement about watching prophesy unfold right before our eyes (long term or short term....no one knows for sure, of course.)
Hope that's helpful :-)
Blessings,
Jen
One more note:
Since anony mentioned specific names, I wanted to mention that I don't go to RR to read up on discussions about any particular author/teacher/theory, etc. I did notice some scorn on a different thread in response to someone posting something about Marilyn Hickey....called her a Woofer (Word of Faither) so I got a sense of the exclusivity in that remark.
The thread I'm reading is mostly people linking newsreports, sharing military tactics and making connections to the eventualities that line up with unfulfilled prophecy. No one on this particular thread is taking sides with anything except the Scriptures. A few trolls were rooted out and sent packing, early on.
Blessings,
Jen
OK - here's one more note!
It was mentioned on the RR site that if you go to Google maps or Google earth (satellite) and look at the country of Georgia, there are NO cities, towns, etc. labeled. Everything has been blanked out. There were news reports today about Russia sabatoging the Georgian gov. sites and other main sites so some think this may be a hack job being used as psyops. The really weird thing is that neighboring Armenia and Azerbijan are also blanked out. What's that supposed to mean?
(This is for Jim C. and all our other conspiracy theorists!)
Blessings,
Jen
Jen, interesting because
"RIA Novosti hit by cyber-attacks as conflict with Georgia rages"
http://en.rian.ru/
Sorry, no time to blue link. The article is under MOST POPULAR ARTICLES near the top center. RIA is Russian News and Information Agency.
anonymous has just highlighted why I have no use for the RR site. They ban any comments about people who suggest something that doesn't fit their very narrow view of prophecy. This is from their board rules:
"This board is traditional Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Pre 6 Seals, Pre 70th week, and Pre-Millennial Dispensational in our position of End Times Prophecy. We also believe in a literal 7 year Tribulation period, after the instantaneous Rapture of all regenerated believers in unison, during which God finishes His discipline of Israel and finalizes His judgments on the unbelieving world. We believe that as described in Revelation, that salvation will remain open to people who trust in the Lord Jesus until the Second coming."
End Quote
Snore..... That is absolutely ridiculous!!!!!
They have added an insane amount of rules since I last bothered to read them!
What I find really offensive and insulting is under RR's "Do not promote false teachings" rule number 6 is some of the people they have included that you can't post comments from:
Steve Hadley, J. R. Church, Mark Biltz, Perry Stone (this is the same list of people that anonymous mentioned). These are some of my favorite Bible scholars. I would like to know what qualifies these moderators to call what these Bible scholars are teaching "false teaching"?!!! Nothing I have heard them say in any way contradicts scripture!
Thank-you Mac and Alesia for maintaining a great site where we can actually discuss new ideas without being censored like we were in some Communist country.
Hmmmm...someone else just pointed out that Israel is also blanked out. I need to go to bed and let my brain rest....too much thinking for one day.
Night!
Jen
Did you have to mention the blanking out before I hit the sack?
You don't even want to know where my conspiracy theorist mind is heading now!
Watch the google US. When we get blanked out-time to duck & cover.
Amen! to what Harold said.
Thank-you Mac and Alesia for maintaining a great site where we can actually discuss new ideas without being censored like we were in some Communist country.
grany, you said;
"GT: given over to a spirit of delusion maybe?"
No, I'd say more of downright stupidity, if I may be so blunt! If we don't do something about our own energy crisis soon, we won't be able to defend ourselves if they come for us next. I Liked the "delusion" comment though.LOL
I don't believe we can or will do anything about the incursion of Georgia. It seem like a rehearsal of Gog/Magog where all the nations are helpless to do anything but to say "are you come to take a spoil?"
Seems like Russia is testing the water (like old times), you can't teach an old bear new tricks, but their timing is still well planned out!
Maranatha!
Harold,
I'm with you. Those black-listed are all my favorite prophesy scholars!
I'll still spy on RR as you can learn alot from just reading the general comments from bloggers but I better not post anything.
So much for them believing that God reveals knowledge to his "commoner" prophets when His timing dictates such.
I don't believe every theory,prophesy,dream,or vision I run across but at least w/the more credible pastors some consideration & store it in the old memory banks.
So what RR has to say is text book and that's it? New revelation is not even considered? I don't think that is what the Bible says or implies.
Otherwise I don't know what they could have against those preachers listed. I think they are Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Pre 6 Seals, Pre 70th week, and Pre-Millennial Dispensational....
Mark Blitz has not really stated is 2nd coming beliefs other than he doesn't care which you believe because he wants to go down w/the ship-so to speak.
I would guess RR is upset by his Blood Moon research nailing the next occurance on 2014 & 2015 as "date setting."
His "Trumpet" blast idea was not to call the "rapture" but to collectively gather Christians together to signify that His Church is eagerly awaiting & watching for His return.
But the big "IF" 2014/2015 date is the end of the Trib then naturally "If" the RR claims are all prophetically correct-then it does formulate that 2008 would be the year of the Rapture.
So it's IF,IF,IF.
At least we are soon to find out the "if's" on this one.
Harold, RR has suffered many attacks from people of varying theologies and in the process, they have watered down the power of discussion. Of course, they have also removed the guns, knives, other weapons from agitators who have come on the site. I wonder if God ever gets disgusted with people trying to put him in a box?
You know one theory that I haven't seen discussed regarding Russia/Georgia conflict is a very simple one. Russia is a domineering country by nature, as far as mind set is concerned. Conquering is part of their pass time pursuits and being humiliated by the crumbling of USSR must have left a very nasty taste in Czar Putin's mouth. The USA is supposed to be militarily strapped right now with the two fronts we are currently occupied with and no one considers us a country with enough courage to face down the bullies of the world. Our news media has been very effectual in this regard and now, the proof of the pudding will be seen by the whole world.
Isn't it odd that Hollywood can make fantastic movies of war, destruction, blowing up everything this side of Hell and yet, most of them are too frightened to do anything but shoot their mouths off when it comes to national or worldly defense. And what do we do? Get our affairs in order and batten down the hatches because things are probably going to get very interesting very shortly.
Grany
I just received this on my Debka File subscription. Wonder if this is correct.
Russian invasion rumor panics Georgians before evaporating
DEBKAfile Exclusive Analysis
August 12, 2008, 1:11 AM (GMT+02:00)
DEBKAfile’s military sources report that Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili, under heavy Russian siege, claimed Monday night, Aug. 11, that the Russians had invaded the country and “cut it in half”. A full-scale retreat of Georgian troops was ordered from the border town of Gori to defend the capital Tbilisi 60 km away. In the event, Moscow denied seizing the town – or any plans for advancing on the Georgian capital - and turned the panic around to ridicule the pro-Western president.
Our sources believe Saakashvili had hoped that word of a Russian invasion of Georgia proper would finally stir the US and Europe into action to save his regime from being trampled by Russian tanks. Moscow had made it obvious that it would only hold its fire after his regime was gone and replaced by a Moscow-friendly administration.
The Russians sustained their three-day aerial bombardment of Gori, even after the town emptied of inhabitants and troops. This kept the rumor of an imminent Russian invasion alive in the world media for as long as necessary.
DEBKAfile’s Moscow sources report that Russian strategists believed that, by pulling the invasion scare carpet from under the president’s feet a few hours later, they could turn his campaign of panic and despair into a boomerang which would topple him without outside aid.
If not, the Russian president, prime minister and military chiefs would put their heads together again as they did on Monday and decide on their next move.
In the meantime, Russian troops entered Georgia Monday unopposed from another direction and captured the town of Senaki, 40 km from the northwestern breakaway province of Abkhazia.
This netted Moscow three advantages:
1. The Georgian outpost in the Kodori Gorge in northern Abkhazia, estimated at 3,000 strong, was cut off from its supply lines.
2. The Russians were in a position to force the outpost’s surrender, inflicting a lethal blow to Georgian military morale. Later Monday, having achieved this objective, the Russian defense ministry announced the withdrawal of its troops from Senaki after “eliminating the threat to south Abkhazia.”
3. The loss of the strategic Kodori Gorge should prove painful enough to deter the Georgian government from persisting in laying claim to Abkhazian territory for many years to come.
Someone to watch out for in relation to the US is Hugo Chavez.
He's made a pact w/Russia as well.
Hugo Chavez vs. America
His name is Hugo Chavez. He is the president of oil-rich Venezuela. Mr. Chavez has decided that America is his enemy, so he is building up his army.
Chavez has been called the "anti-Bush." He has embraced virtually every enemy of the United States, past and present, from Saddam Hussein to Moammar Khaddafy to the Taliban and Iran.
An important early advisor to Chavez was an Argentine Holocaust-denier named Norberto Ceresole.
Ceresole believed that Latin America must forge alliances with Arab nations to fight against the United States and what Ceresole called "the Jewish financial mafia." And a few months ago, Chavez played a major role in the first South American-Arab Summit in Brazil, which attacked both the United States and Israel as the chief enemies of Latin America.
Chavez says the U.S. is plotting to have him killed, and he says if that happens, oil shipments to the U.S. will stop
harold;
RR is a very strick site when it comes to their brand of eschatology. You would have to admit that if they let all the speculation go on it would soon deteoriorate into fruitless arguments that go round in circles. I think that is their main concern, not to show an argumentative view of Christianity.
They could however, have a special section for other pre-trib views, but I think that would take up too much space ect. and they don't want to get involved in spectulations of any kind. The best thing to do is take it for what it is, one form of reference or interpretation of end times. There are lots of sites/interpretations on the net and one can find places to present speculations. At least they are getting the Word out and causing others to do the same.
Maranatha!
Interesting info about RR.
I usually scan the RR site everyday, or at least most days, for their headlines, updates, but have never spent time on the comments.
(I check their Rapture index for changes on mondays usually, too.)
I think I will check the comments out, probably tomorrow, just to get info about Russia-Georgia, espec since Jen suggested it.
I agree with others...thank you Mac and Alesia for keeping the cave open for us!!!
I love connecting with you all!
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Shalom, all! Boy, the board has been hopping tonight!
Re: the map blanking -- that's just security. My guess is that the Georgian government asked Google Maps to blank out the country to prevent the Russian military from using it to plan attacks, etc. I don't know how often the terrain features of Google Maps are updated, but it opens up the possibility of using it to track troop movements, etc. Israel already has an "understanding" with Google Maps and the other mapping services not to provide anything below a certain resolution to keep the terrorists from using it to plan attacks, etc. When Google Maps came out, you could get fine enough resolution that you could see naked people sunbathing on rooftops. That's good enough resolution to use for plotting artillery, etc. In other words, satellite imagery resolution of the '80's without the expense of launching a satellite.
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As for RR board, the only thing I'd been using it for had been the survival thread that got started last year. Lots of good information there on what survival supplies to buy and where.
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Jim I will be praying for your ex wife's family and everyone else in the Russian-Georgian area. Scarey stuff going on there for sure!
Thanks for the lengthy RCC explanation. I personally find it sad and a cause for concern that all of these "extras" take people away from biblically related things that people should be focusing their attention on.
Sure seems like things are really heating up!
With its invasion of Georgia, Russia has announced to the world that its superpower status is back. The Kremlin is once more flexing its military muscles -- the same way it did between 1945 and 1991, and the results are turning out to be just as bloody. There are already hundreds of dead and thousands of wounded and refugees.
Georgia: The First Shot in a New Cold War
Thanks for the comments, guys. Alesia and I appreciate all the fellowship here.
Cardinal Ignatius Kung and 200 Catholic priests were arrested by the Chinese communists on Sept. 8, 1955. With his hands bound, Cardinal Kung was then hauled before a Shanghai stadium full of people who were there to witness Kung renounce his faith. But, when the microphone was placed to his mouth, to the shock of everyone, instead of denying Christ, Kung declared, "Jesus Christ is King."
Lisa, Shalom! Just some replies before bedtime:
Yikes! This ties in with all this Global Conscience movement!! It has more of a Biblical edge to it but the same never-the-less.
I really don't know what you mean. I tried to Google "Global Conscience movement" and got nothing of note, just appeals to develop a global conscience. If this is what you mean then this is totally NOT what the Warning will be. To quote directly from the Garabandal web site:
The warning is a thing that comes directly from God. No one can escape it. It will be visible all over the world. We will feel it bodily and interiorly. The warning is like a chastisement, a terrifying thing for the good as well as for the wicked. It will be like a revelation of our sins. We shall see the consequences of the sins we have committed. God will send the warning to purify us so that we may better appreciate the miracle by which He clearly proves His love for us and hence His desire that we fulfill the message. The warning will draw the good closer to God and it will warn the wicked that the end of time is coming. ("The message" is the message of Garabandal, namely, repent, pray, fast, and return to the Lord.)
A great sign? Oh my! This sounds like 2 Thess 2:9 or Rev 13:15.
This is what frustrates, worries, and frightens me so. Frank Sheed once said, "There are countless millions of Christians who will not accept anything, even Christ, from the Catholic Church." How many people would reject (or reject now) miracles and wonders from G_D because they are associated with the Catholic Church? Is it possible that the Evil One is using your fear of being deceived to lead you to reject ALL signs and wonders? If such a wonder should appear in the sky tomorrow and you were told it was associated with a Catholic prophecy, would you reject it immediately because of its Catholic association, or would you use the gift of discernment to prayerfully consider it before rejecting it because of its Catholic association?
Is this why some people have written Catholicism as being married to the end time deception?(I have not read these books)
I don't know. It's possible, although it's just as possible that their views are shaped because the Catholic Church believes it holds the most complete deposit of truth (not THE truth, just the most complete form of it), and because it stands for something, even as you have groups like the San Francisco City Council passing a resolution calling the Catholic Church an organized hate group. All I know is that the Catholic Church will be around at the end times.
Are the two witnesses Jews or Catholics? Yes. (Grin!) One set of witnesses would be Gentile Catholics, and the other set of witnesses would be Jewish Catholics.
Keep in mind that this is not any kind of official Catholic doctrine. The official Catholic doctrine is summed up as "What will come will come, and Jesus will come at the end of the world to bring us to Heaven."
Now we have Catholic Jews? Yes. Check out the Association of Hebrew Catholics Also check out the book "Salvation Is from the Jews: The Role of Judaism in Salvation History" by Roy H. Schoeman.
So again the Catholic Church has the "the truth" proven by mind control (expansion) & great signs.All the other Christians & Jews are suppose to all become Catholic.
I think you're using the phrase "mind control" because you think all this stuff would be coming from the Catholic Church itself. If it were from man, you would be totally right and it would be totally evil. What if, on the other hand, it comes from G_D? Would it then become "mind control"? And it's not "supposed to become Catholic", it's "will become Catholic" -- not by any mortal coercion, but because people will have been led by G_D to choose one way or another.
Maranatha!
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Wake up-new news. Russia has stopped for now. (So they say.)
Russian President Dmitri Medvedev ordered a halt to military action in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks that took Russian forces deep into the small Western-allied nation.
Medvedev said on national television that the military had punished Georgia enough for its attack on South Ossetia.
"If there are any emerging hotbeds of resistance or any aggressive actions, you should take steps to destroy them," he told his defense minister at a televised Kremlin meeting.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Tuesday that Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili should leave office and that Georgian troops should stay out of South Ossetia permanently.
Harold, the problem with signs and wonders is that people will believe what they see more than what the Bible says.
For example, if a glorious, shining person appears and says they are Elijah, and makes a pronouncement that is contrary to the Bible, 99% of the people will believe what he says and not question it. They see it with their own eyes, so it must be true!
Now don't get me wrong, I believe there has been and will be true miracles, signs and wonders. We just need to check to see what the Bible says first before knowing if it comes from God or Satan.
I had a discussion with a wonderful, retired Reformed pastor once. He was talking about something that clearly was not in the Bible. When I told him that the Bible forbade what he said, he told me that we Christians have the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit can continually reveal new things to us that are contrary to what the Bible says.
In other words, we can have new revelations from the Holy Spirit which are true even though they contradict the Bible.
My question to him was, but what happens to our standard of truth then? Where does our foundation go to decide what is truth, if what he said was true?
Without God's Word we are open to Satan's deceptions, so it must have the final say...not our senses.
Vicki
Vicki
you were correct and he was wrong. Any "new" revelation should not contradict what is in scripture. Isn't there a verse that says the scripture is complete and anyone that adds to or takes away is wrong-and I would take that to mean a "new" revelation that contradicts scripture. A "new" revelation that reinforces scripture is something else all together.
on the "if the shoe fits" front (Mac does that mean if it fits we can't acquit?), this just in The Shoe Seems to Fit to ME at any rate does anyone else find this disquieting? it is also almost Hitleresque as well. cold shivers went down my spine. the Dem strategist can say what he likes but when he acts the way his acting eyebrows will be raised!
Jim C.
I'm not looking at this from an anti-Catholic stance. (Although I realize some do present themselves as such)
Do I agree with the doctrines of Catholicism that I know of? Most of them I do not.If it's not in the Bible or contrary to the Bible I don't agree with it. And many of these doctrines & beliefs have stemmed from "visions" and "supernatural" encounters.
We have to check these supernatural encounters against the Word of God. Just not take them at face value then add to the Holy Book. And I don't care what denomination they come from. It doesn't matter one iota to me.
Prime example is the Mary Visions. In no way is she put upon the pedestal in the Bible. In fact she is purposely placed w/common man. But yet the RRC has embraced these supernatural encounters w/Mary and they continue to this day.
So it's not that “Catholicism” has stated this "great sign" from God will appear in the end days- It's that the Bible (the only Word I can trust) does not mention it at all.
The only thing the Bible mentions is BEWARE of the "Great signs" for the evil one can and will make them! And he'll make them to deceive you.
So even if my own Church & every Church on the face of the planet witnesses a "Great sign" in the heavens "from god" and it's of no doubt supernatural origin- I will not go for it. Catholicism it's self has nothing to with my perspective on the matter.
If there was no pre-trib catching up and I survived all the Tribulation events through the 7 years and saw Jesus & the saints coming in the clouds on white horses- That great sign I would believe. (& the two witnesses & angels proclaiming)
The Global Conscience movement is probably a title I've internalized from studying this converging thought process. There are several different religious groups all talking about this very concept of mentally going to a higher plain & being "god like" or "becoming one with god",or knowing the "mind of god". I see it playing into the end time events. There is no way this can just be coincidental.
"The warning is a thing that comes directly from God. No one can escape it. It will be visible all over the world. We will feel it bodily and interiorly."
These varying religious groups are all looking to this same experiance.Now granted it's not Jesus Christ/sin based but the general idea is still the same.
Does the Bible tell us to look for this "global warning" or connection? No it does not. But it does tell us someone will control the world globally. And what is the best way to achieve this? Through universal mind control. Did you read the EMP's how they can purposely mess with your brain @ the right frequencies? Whether it's mechanical or supernatural or both who knows. But that is exactly what the Anti-Christ has in mind.
So when you tell me these things it's the Biblical perspective that pops up in my mind. Not my general view of Catholicism.
When we compare notes only Biblically - you and I are almost exactly on the same page. Our views have much in common.
There is so much about Catholicism I admire & respect. But I'll never accept any of the supernatural occurrences or doctrines that are contrary to what is in the Bible.
No matter which Christian denomination it comes from. (And recently more are coming from the reformed groups)
Do you really believe that is a bad thing?
So many news reports are so slanted, it's hard to find some good old fashioned non-slanted reporting these days, it seems.
First off, in my opinion, I doubt Obama will win.
I also think some people are going a bit overboard with their fear of him...just as they did apparently with FDR, thinking he was the Antichrist.
Most people are so upset, concerned and frustrated over the position America is in right now...a mess!
So some folks are going overboard with their enthusiasm for Obama..hoping for a big change in direction, which we do need.
I personally doubt he will win, and doubt he would be able to make positive changes...not only is he inexperienced, but he would also need the backing of the legislature, etc, which is not easy for anyone to do.
But as far as him being the evil, antichrist or prototype for the AC, I just don't see it.
Maybe I am missing something...
Donna
if you have read the Left Behind Books BHO has almost always reminded me of Carpathia-who although fictional certainly was a wealthy, glib, charming man of little to no experience who after a minimal term in the Romanian senate (or congress I forget which) was elected President of Romania and wowed everyone who met him around the world in a rock star like fashion. Does that ring any bells? While I'm not saying that BHO is the AC I do think, harking back to what I've posted recently on who and how others have tried to take over the world previously mostly by force and not glib and charming, I think Satan has learned that using force up front is a bad idea and that guile with charm, glibness etc are far more effective. It does go hand in hand to an extent does it not with what the Bible says about satan who can appear both as a roaring lion or angel of light? Further Hal Lindsey posted a commentary last week that he feel proves that the world is ready for the AC because of how BHO has been welcomed and treated world wide.
as an interesting side note there is apparently some evidence that BHO's ancestry is arabian and not african (although they lived in Kenya they appear to be ethnically arabian).
on a different note
I received a mostly clean bill of health on my foot. the doc initially said he didn't need to see me again and then really examined the foot and found that there is still a problem with the larger bones near the ankle joint but I don't have to wear the big boot and I'm allowed to drive. I also had a treatment on my vertigo yesterday which does appear to be working although I'm not allowed to sleep flat or bend for another 24 hours. ha.
Michigander, Shalom! When you said, ...people will believe what they see more than what the Bible says, you hit the nail on the head. I'm thinking of the face of Jesus on a grilled cheese sandwich and such. So many people looked on that sandwich as a miracle. I think any discerning Christian would recognize it is not -- it didn't involve G_D's direct intervention to suspend the rules of nature. This isn't to say that G_D COULDN'T have done it. I think G_D ALLOWED that image to appear on the sandwich as a way to let us know he's looking over our shoulders.
As for your pastor, shame on him. Revelation to the Universal Church ended with the death of the last apostle. Personal revelations can and do occur, but if they are in conflict with Scripture, they are not of G_D.
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Jib, Shalom! Glory to G_D about your foot!
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Good news about your foot, Jib!
Question to the list...
Is it your understanding that the Antichrist is the same as the little horn in Daniel 7 and beast power in Revelation 13?
Who do you identify as Babylon (as mentioned in Revelation)?
Also, the woman arrayed in purple and scarlet in Rev. 17?
Vicki
Hi, Jim,
A bit of a clarification...the pastor was not my pastor, nor was he even of my denomination. Just someone I knew.
And don't get me wrong, I believe that God can still give us revelations, but they will ALWAYS agree with and reinforce scripture...not replace it.
I agree with what Jib said, "A "new" revelation that reinforces scripture is something else all together."
I know you all are familiar with Acts 2:17, 18--
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"
I'm just concerned that people might mistake a new revelation that contradicts scripture to be acceptable. They think just because it is miraculous, it must be from God. People aren't very discerning anymore and forget there's a malevolent force out to destroy us.
Vicki
The "strong delusion" passage has surfaced now w/this conversation of "signs" & "global God-given revelation".
This is an article against books which omit the concept of God giving people over to a "strong delusion." It's something to consider.The Bible does say God himself will send a "STRONG delusion" because?"they received not the love of the truth."
What is the only thing we can count on as truth?
John 17:17,18 Sanctify them through thy truth; thy word is truth.
The Bible. That's it.
"The God-sent delusion, which the authors completely omitted in the Left Behind series and actively taught against through the storyline of Desecration and especially The Remnant, means that God will cause every person who had the opportunity to follow Jesus Christ before that "that Wicked" rises to power, but would not, will believe the lie."
michigander,
I am not sure why you addressed the following statement to me:
"Harold, the problem with signs and wonders is that people will believe what they see more than what the Bible says."
End Quote
I am the last person on the planet who would believe in any sign or wonder, especially if it in anyway contradicts or appears to contradict scripture.
For example, I outright reject any Marian Apparition as coming from God. As Lisa has stated, the Bible makes it very clear that Mary was just an ordinary woman who was chosen by God for an extraordinary task. She is not worthy of worship or to be in anyway put up on a pedestal.
I can say the same thing for alleged UFO sightings and alien encounters. I believe they are "dark angels" using tricks to deceive people. I have never heard of anyone being brought closer to God through these encounters. They almost always negative experiences.
The blood moon theories of Mark Biltz and Steve Hadley however, are an entirely different matter. They are basing their theories primarily on scripture and secondarily on history and science. These men are great Bible scholars and they test everything with scripture. Nothing that I have heard them say in anyway contradicts or brings into question scripture.
Fallen angels can fake apparitions, UFO sightings, alien encounters, etc., but they have no control over the planets, the moon, the Sun or the stars. As the owner and creator of these, only God controls them.
Genesis records that God created the stars, the planets, the Sun and the moon to not only give light, but to function as signs to us:
Genesis 1:14-16 (English Standard Version)
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth." And it was so. 16 And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars.
This leads me to believe that we should be looking for signs in the heavens for Christ's return, just as Mark and Steve are. They are merely following scripture.
If you watch the video "The Star of Bethlehem" you will get an appreciation for how much God communicates to man using the heavens.
By using scripture primarily and historical accounts and science secondarily, the narrator of the video made some startling discoveries about what was going on in the stars and planets at Christ's birth.
He also discovered that their was a blood red moon at the time of Christ's death. This adds a lot of credence to Mark and Steve's theory of the blood red moons in 2014-2015 being significant.
Mark and Steve are the farthest things from false prophets. They are not focusing any attention on themselves. They are focusing all the attention on Christ. This is a good barometer to me that they are good teachers and not leading people astray. They are not relying on visions, dreams and apparitions like many of the false prophets do today. Everything I have heard them say is solidly anchored on scripture.
I wonder if cyberattacks have anything to do with maps of Georgia (and Azerbaijan?) not displaying any info?
Estonia, Google Help 'Cyberlocked' Georgia (Updated)
Speaking of the sun and moon and signs...
Did anyone see this picture?
A camel is silhouetted against the sun blocking the moon during a solar eclipse in Gaotai, Gansu province
I always assumed that the crescent moon that is on the flags of so many countries dominated by Islam was simply a normal crescent moon. I wonder if God, in his sovereignty, is making these countries who hate Israel so much, unknowingly prophesy against themselves through their own flags.
regarding that wound dressing of honey? it should be just honey or betadine and sugar not honey and sugar.
regarding the blackout-perhaps it is significant in that the countries mentioned are one's that Joel R lists as being where Russia wants to expand to and are perhaps on a Russian hit list of sort?
Here is an article on deception that you all my find helpful. It backs up what has been said already and adds some inmportant points.
Uncloak the Wolf
by Faith Noles
"It’s a horrible feeling when someone lies to you; especially if the liar is someone that you held in high esteem. No one likes to be deceived. The word ‘deceived’ means to catch by guile or to ensnare and the word ‘guile’ implies that someone is skilled at being deceptive. There are multitudes of deceivers in the world who are trying to get you to buy their product: whether that product is a politician; a particular brand of washing powders or a religion. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 says “Let no man deceive you by any means” and 2 Peter 2:3 states about false prophets that “through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you”.
T.L. Lowery in Apostles and Prophets Reclaiming the Biblical Gifts states that there are four areas in which most false ministries will demonstrate their true nature. The first is by the manifestation of their lives. Jesus said: “Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me” (Matthew 7:20-23). This scripture suggests that a person who does not have a relationship with Jesus may operate in miraculous powers.
T.L. Lowery states, “It is important to know that the fruit of the Spirit, not the gifts of the Spirit, determine the authenticity of a ministry”. The fruit that a tree produces identifies the tree. Oranges grow on orange trees--apples grow on apple tress. Likewise, the fruit it produces identifies a ministry. An authentic minister will live a life separate from sinful behavior. Paul referred to the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22, 23 which include love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance.
The second sign of a false ministry is the motive of their ministry. The motivation of a person’s life will be manifested in two areas: the content of their conversations and by the way they handle finances. Matthew 12:34 “...out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh”. Matthew 6:21 “For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” Beware of prosperity preachers. I Timothy 6:5 “Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.”
The third sign of a false ministry is the message of their ministry. Jesus warned that in the last days “false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (Matthew 24:24). The major focus of the message in an authentic ministry is the exaltation of Jesus, not the marketing of their ministry. False apostles and prophets place themselves as the exclusive connecting link between the believer and God.
The fourth sign of a false ministry is the manipulation of people. The Book of Jude says these false ministries “mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage (v. 16). Paul dealt with those who used psychological tactics to manipulate, referring to “the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive” (Ephesians 4:14). Paul rebuked the Corinthian church because it allowed itself to be manipulated and intimidated by false apostles. In 2 Corinthians 11: 20, he described the behavior of the false apostles with five expressions in one verse: “You put up with it if one brings you into bondage, if one devours you, if one takes from you, if one exalts himself, if one strikes you on the face”.
(1) The false apostles preached the bondage of keeping the law as a prerequisite of salvation. (2) The church allowed the false apostles to “devour” their resources. (3) The false ministries took large amounts of their income and their abilities to increase their own lifestyle. (4) The false apostles exalted themselves at the expense of the church. (5) They resorted to humiliation tactics, such as slapping people in the face.
I can think of multiple false ministries that are in the world today. One particular false prophet on You Tube stated that ‘god’ told him to kick an elderly lady in the face so that she would be healed. Brothers and sisters in Christ, this type of behavior is not of God. Our precious Saviour was and still is a gentleman. Jesus would never kick someone in the face in order to heal him or her.
I challenge each of you to read the Bible daily. 2 Timothy 2:15 encourages us to “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”. If you hear anyone preach or teach anything that doesn’t sound quite right, then please search the scriptures for yourself. You have direct access to God Almighty through the precious blood of Jesus. Pray and ask God for guidance. 1 John 2:27 “But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
Father, thank You for Your precious word. Thank You for the precious Holy Spirit that guides us into all truth. Give us the ability to discern good and evil. Make us wise as serpents and harmless as doves. Protect us by Your mighty power. I ask in Jesus name. Amen."
I guess thats why the first thing Jesus warns about when speeking about the end times is "Let no man deceive you", must be of first importants. Amen?
Maranatha!
GT, excellent article.
I think Rick Warren however is starting to fall into that category. While he tithes an incredible amount lately his message seems more to be about fixing the worlds problems without Christ being the solution to some of them. I do agree with him that the local church needs to reach out to their communities more and that when the church failed in that responsibility and placed that on the gov't it was a bad thing. However based on his most recent interview in Time his actions don't seem to be much about Christ only about solving problems that either don't exist or are problems that Christ said we would have with us always such as poverty. In fact while he wants the local churches to do this it does seem to me at least to be at the expense of the real Good News that is supposed to be our primary responsibility.
I guess only time will tell his real motivation.
I'm so sorry, Harold. I think I meant to address Jim Carroll, and your name came out instead.
I didn't really want to address anyone personally and didn't mean to give affront... just wanted to talk about the potential problem of signs and wonders in these last days, which Jim C. mentioned in the prophecy of the cross appearing in the sky.
Please accept my apologies for my scattered mind!
michigander,
No worries or need to apologize. I thought that you must have confused me with Jim C. My brain is scattered at the best of times. :-)
Your email gave me a good excuse to express my opinion. :-)
Grany,Harold,Jen & others-you'll get a kick out of Stone's latest teaching.Loosing the Dove in the Midst of the Storm
He parallels Noah's ark & the 3 mentions of the Dove with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in our time.
I don't think I've ever seen him this worked up before-I thought he was going to jump off the stage!
Lisa, I watched that Manna-Fest video the other night and had to rewind and watch it again. I love to hear Perry Stone anyway and this one was especially good. He has really been vocal lately about the times we are living in and now even my hubby is listening to what he is saying.
By the way everyone; if you are using Gmail like I am, you might need to change your password. I mentioned the other day that weird things were happening to my attempts to comment here and some of it harkened back to signing up for Email notifications being enabled on the cave. Well, it just kept up and really got to the place that I was getting spooked.
Then yesterday, Gmail faltered and I couldn't access my account. I received a new subscription from one of my IT friends and in telling him about my situation, he told me to change my passwords in all of my accounts and to make sure they were all different. If I had any doubts, to check the address bar when I first signed into my mail account. Did I see various addresses zippping through there and also, at the bottom of the page on the left hand corner where it will list the actions taking place. If so, I needed to find out where my account was being accessed from. WOW! No wonder I was having problems. There were at least 17 different url's listed and I never access through any other point than this one. That explained all of the weird emails I was getting that simply said "me@such and such".
I am a very careful person by nature and not having signed into any weird subscriptions and the like, I couldn't figure where those messages originated from. It you think you are being tracked or used to clone out bots, go to the bottom of your email page that lists the messages, check the very bottom and look for this:
"You are currently using 264 MB (3%) of your 7024 MB.
Last account activity: 30 minutes ago at this IP (then the address that your computer uses is listed in numerals) Details
Gmail view: standard | turn off chat | basic HTML Learn more
©2008 Google - Terms - Gmail Blog - Join the Gmail team - Google Home"
Click on "Details" right after your IP address. It will take you to the page that lists all of the address your account is receiving and sending mail through. Close all other accounts that are logged on and then change your password if there are addresses on there that you do not recognize.
But as my friend told me, someone was reading my mail and counting my chickens. We are looking into it now and maybe I can tell you more later.
I have to get my work done for now but I shall return.
Grany
My friend called me and the problem with my email goes back to the Google mess up in July. There were some strange things going on with their notification process and I guess it had never been taken care of on my computer because I was off of the internet connection due to hubby having computer problems. So, my computer didnt' get the correction that was issued at the time. Well, now everything is back to being fairly normal here (well, who wants to be boringly normal?)
Just wanted to clear the air of what I was trying to say. Didn't want to give the wrong impression of the situation. But do get your Passwords changed.
Love you all,
Grany
Cold War II
US imposes sanctions on 5 Iran firms
Iranians Bicker Over Extent of Friendship with Israel
Are moderate Muslims turning into orthodox zombies in the US
Russians move toward gorge despite cease-fire
Russia to pull troops from S. Ossetia If all parties agree, Sarkozy has generously arranged for EU to send peacekeepers.... ("Oh, how kind," she declares with a sarcastic tone and a wink ;)
Russia orders halt to war, Georgia skeptical
Russia Welcomes Peace Plan
Russia annexes a fifth of Georgia
Obama claims to have been talking about South Ossetia interesting feedback comments
Georgian Prime Minister Asks Rabbi Shteinman to Bless Nation
UN: Peacekeepers may have committed sex abuse in Congo
What will cause Jerusalem's 3rd destruction
Israel adopts U.S. plan to split nation into 2
Syria's top cleric: Middle East peace begins in Syria
Assad to discuss ME peace process in Russia
This sure filled up fast!
Jib, yes, I totally agree that the AC will be charismatic and appear to be a peace keeper, etc, and the way some people's are reacting to Obama could be similar to how they will react to the AC.
I just highly doubt Obama is the AC...and it just seems kind of crazy and even unhealthy to connect so many diff people to the AC, in my opinion anyway.
That being said, Sarkozy, who is partly Jewish, and is the current president of the EU, is in the middle of brokering what sounds like could be a successful peace treaty between Russia and Georgia. Hmmmmm...
Several people made several good points about not accepting every sign and wonder and teaching that comes along.
I totally agree 100%.
I too am very skeptical about things I hear about.
Everyone else should be, too.
<><
Ne post is up.
Back to my closet.
That should be "new". My "w" ent astray. Darn, there it goes again!
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