“The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear?
The Lord is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid? ...
Though an army may encamp against me, My heart shall not fear;
Though war should rise against me, in this I will be confident.
One thing I have desired of the Lord, that will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life..."
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152 comments:
I am number 1!!
And still lurking.
Hi Guys,
Keep on keeping on!
So...where is everyone today?
Jim G., praying for Darian
Good morning, everyone!
Lindalou, I'm still in bed, since I was up until almost 3AM assembling a new desk I bought on Tuesday.
(I'm actually writing this response using my new computer interface, which lets me type things by thinking them. Turns out to have been a waste of money. For one thing, do you know what "stream of consciousness" is? For another, it types out everything, and I mean EVERYTHING. Do you know how embarrassing that can be? I suppose I COULD learn to control my thoughts ...
... naah!
<><
Jim
too funny. perhaps it was the fatigue talking?
good to see some of the rest of you posting as well.
Jim G
it's always hardest I think when kids have cancer. takes special docs and nurses to work with them. I know I couldn't do it at all. will be praying with you all
Anne
just to make it clear it case it wasn't=I'm not attacking you and I don't have a quibble with you my post was general thoughts. Comparing the US to Israel has always bothered me and you didn't write the piece so my quibbling, was with the author of the piece not you
Hi everyone!
Jim G, praying for sweet Darian.
Today is a beautiful day here in Illinois. It is also my second daughter's 12th birthday. Sweet child that she is. Thank you Lord for Victoria!
I am so worn out today with my DH. He is angry at everyone, all of the time. No one is good enough. I make too many mistakes. I don't listen to him and neither does my dad whom he works with. I can be sweet as anything but he is still fuming just under the surface all of the time. He feels horrible most of the time (sick) and drinks beer like it is water. I am so sorry to complain and I love him dearly but I am so tired. I prayed last night that the Lord would make his beer turn into water and that He would not allow DH to drown himself in it any more. DH cannot see clearly and although he believes in Jesus, Jesus is not Lord in his life. I am afraid for him and I ask the Lord to have mercy on him yet to also change his heart. I never nag him nor point out his falts. That is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin. Thanks folks for this time of a little venting because I am just worn out from it all. I want to give up.
Lord bless all of you today
Diana
Guns on a plane
Obama secretly ends program that let pilots carry guns.
Diana, Shalom. I am keeping you, your DH, and your entire family in my prayers. I hate to say this, but things will probably get worse before they get better. I'm saying this because spiritual oppression is growing. So many people I've spoken with about this, as well as what I see in my own life, shows to me that the Evil One is sending his minions to harass and bedevil people -- not just Christians -- to increase the level of despair in people's lives. All we can do is to keep putting one foot in front of the other. We don't have to be filled with glory, we don't have to march triumphant past the enemy. Jesus Himself fell several times on His way to Calvary; yet, He made it, He fulfilled the promises His Father made, and He saved us all who choose to take up our own crosses and follow Him.
I just wish mine didn't have so many splinters...
<><
Foundations join forces with Alliance of Civilizations
Solana urges Israel to stop illegal settlements
17 G-20 members have taken protectionist steps
Assad: Olmert agreed to give up all of the Golan
Syria's Assad ready to mediate with Iran: report
Lebanese leader: "If Syria signs peace deal with Israel, so will we"
Russia signs deal to supply Iran with air-defense missiles
Russia to deploy new warheads in December
Russia signs visa-free agreement with Argentina
Russian-Chinese exercises to be held in China in summer
Russia could become Cuba's main oil sector partner
Serdyukov Warns of U.S. Buildup "..US beefing up its military presence near Russian borders.." ?
Top UN official accuses US of demonizing Iran
Uh, they don't need our help
'Israel could attack Iran with missiles' >
Iran increasing pro-Hezbollah activity in South America
MUST READ: Embracing of Shariah
IDF chief gave U.S. fresh intel on Iran nukes program
US Blocking Visa for Netanyahu’s Security Advisor
IDF to US: Israel Closing In on Taking Military Aim at Iran
BO Thanks Himself, Irish PM Repeats Speech in Teleprompter Meltdown
BO Received a $101,332 Bonus from AIG
Azerbaijan votes on scrapping presidential limits
JIM C, I needed that laugh brother, and you came through. Are you going to send us the transcript of your typing machine? I am volunteering for proof reader!
JIM G. Praying for Darian and in agreement with all of the petitions for healing by the stripes of Jesus Christ. Don't forget Jim, the Name of Jesus is Always Above All Other Names on earth, under the earth and over the earth.
DIANA, been there and know the feeling. I am going to be praying for your DH as if I were your closest relative, if that is OK with you.
You are a real sweetie and keeping your cool is great but don't forget, Jesus took a whip to the money changers in the temple court yard.
Now I have to go back and catch the comments that I left off with last night. Everyone, keep your sword handy at all times and remember, "No weapon formed against you shall prosper".
Grany
LINDALOU,
It is great seeing your name here and I got all giggly knowing you are still keeping company with us. Have you been doing OK?
Grany
Jib, not to worry. You might be right, I just thought it was an interesting perspective. About elevating the US to the position of Israel, I don't think in those terms. I was once taken to task for using the prayer of Daniel 9 to pray for our country, thinking it was a great model. When I use the prayer I sense deep communion with God, interceding for the US. But, this person wrote a long condemnation, pointing out that the US is not Israel and basically that we should not use Daniel's prayer in this way. Hmmmm...he didn't convince me, but if it bothers him he need not do it.
Diana, your husband sounds like a classical alcoholic. Understanding alcoholism doesn't have to include new age or anti-biblical thinking. My husband and I both grew up in alcoholic homes with alcoholic fathers. He and I are both at risk of alcoholism ourselves and have not had a drink since the early 70's due to that risk. DH was director of a treatment center in our early marriage. There is a lot of crazy thinking in the AA world, but then there is a lot of crazy thinking in churches, too, so I don't think it's good to throw it all out because of that. What I'm trying to say is this: understanding your part in an alcoholic marriage can be helpful to you, your children and possibly your husband.
I hope I haven't stirred up a hornet's nest, I certainly don't mean to.
Jim G;
Joining in prayers for Darian.
Diana;
I know first hand about the battle you are going thru. I was similar to your DH at one time and was very angry and rebellious also. I am believeing with everyone here that the Lord will wake up your DH and He will comfort you and give you strength to come thru this dark time.
Maranatha!
Hey, Mac, did you feel the 4.4 quake near Melbourne, or are you too far away? (You do live near/in Melbourne, right?) I saw there were 594 responses on the "Did you feel it" page of the USGS earthquake site. Were you one of them?
Diana,
I agree with all the suggestions given to you. And I can also understand the situation. Negitive thoughts create a lot of the under- -the -surface anger. Negitive thinking doesn't always fall into the Age Age catgory, either. According to Proverbs 23:7a...
"For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he..."
The N.T. goes on to tell us we should think on good things.
(Philippians 4:8)
I would highly recommend the book; Change Your Brain, Change Your Life, by Dr. Daniel G. Amen. It's a book everyone can relate to, in some form or fashion.
And Happy Birthday to your daughter, too!
Linda Lou,
Good to see you posting!
Anne
I think individually we certainly can pray for things using OT models-have no problem with that. Actually praying for the country along the lines of Daniel 9 not unreasonable either-it gives direction, helps you focus etc. What I object to is lifting passages that clearly apply to Israel and thinking they apply one to one to the US, especially when the writer tries to make the case either by outright suggestion or with more subtly that the US is the New Israel or is somehow equivalent to Israel in God's eyes.
Having said that God does follow patterns and I think the patterns can be applied
As an example-with both Israel and non jewish nations and cities God clearly calls upon them to have individual as well as national repentence and that if there is none and there is no turning back to Him he will then judge that nation and the inhabitants. Israel is special amongst all the nations because no nation to this point in time has ever had the relationship with God that she has had nor the position that she has had. I don't think the US has ever quite been in the same mold.
There is a subtle distinction between the two. A nation with Christians, even as the predominant members of society, is not technically a Christian nation. To me a Christian nation would be one in which Christianity is the official religion of the land and all of the laws are based on Judeo-Christian principles.
Did you now there is a difference between and Islamic state and an Islamic nation? I don't honestly remember which is which but one has Islam as the national religion but "secular" laws. Until of late Turkey would have been in this category. Then there are the nations which not only have Islam as the national religion but also as the law of the land. Subtle difference. Bangladesh is another in which Islam has been declared the national religion but at least up until the late 1990's they were not using Islamic law as the law of the land.
never mind the typos ha!
Diana
I think Al-Anon is not an unreasonable thing for you to do. It is my general experience that alcoholics drink to dull pain or to escape something and it might be something that happened in the remote past. I seem to recall that when you first started posting here your DH was having trouble finding work. Might be that he views himself as worthless since he is not the breadwinner, can't support his family. If he had issues before it might be something else. I will be praying for you.
Joel's new post:
RUSSIA TO PROPOSE NEW GLOBAL COMMON CURRENCY: And the Kremlin is not alone
Thanks for the welcome Wilma and Marge. Jim C I am still laughing trying to figure out what your thoughts may have been that were typed out by your super duper computer! You're way too smart for me, I have a hard time figuring out what your talking about a lot of the time, but I still enjoy the read!
I am out here keeping up with you all every day, as I know others are as well. I find out what the prayer needs are, and just enjoy the company here.
The world it getting so dark, and some days I feel the urge to just sit and cry, but then I remind myself God has a plan, and it it right on schedule! My heart tells me there is not a lot of time left which is great for those of us who are ready, but my heart grieves for so many who don't have a clue as to what is coming soon!
Just wanted to touch base, and tell you I love you all, and can't wait to meet you all soon!
The Fetus as Organ Factory -- The Next Moral Frontier?
From London, the Daily Mail reported late last week that Oxford Professor Sir Richard Gardner now proposes that organ tissues from aborted fetuses might represent "at least a temporary solution" to the shortage of available organs for transplant.
Diana,
All I can say is that I can relate to your situation. I once had a boyfriend who was an Alkie & could either be as nice as pie or literally turn into Adolf Hitler if he was in a dark mood.
My current D.H. is not a classic 24/7 Alkie but he definitely uses it as a stress reducer. When he's really stressed on occasion he comes home & hits the hard stuff. Otherwise he typically drinks a beer or a couple glasses of wine.
Last night he went w/some Attorneys to a popular Irish Pub downtown to "network". (Yeah, right.) When he came home he was in a fine mood but when I got back from a Bible study something negative via work turned up while I was gone. I walked in the door there were fumes coming off him & he started venting about the situation. Lorraine was trying to rub his shoulders & be loving-then he snapped @ her & she ran off crying.
If you "need" alcohol to cope then I think it's alcoholism in one way or another. Some take it to more of an extreme than others. Both his parents were drinkers as well.
It just shows how miserably we fail when life doesn't go our way & have a tendency to become angry & resentful while relying upon ourselves &/or drugs to cope. Not only does it does nothing positive for ourselves but also hurts everyone else around us.
I would be in prayer to break Satan's stronghold on him (as I know you are)-we should also join in-and if you want some extra support try an Al-Anon group as suggested. I read they even have on-line support groups for those who can’t meet face to face. You know-just check it to make sure any suggestions are met w/Biblically spiritual eyes.
Infidel for Christ a 45-minute secular documentary about Mosab Hassan Yousef. (He just came & spoke at our church-should be a good video!)
Thank you, thank you, thank you all for your prayers and words of encouragement!
My DH knows that he is an alcholic. He tells his girls to not even date a man who drinks. He comes from a longgg line of alcholics and has many issues. When I married him 14 years ago we had both prayed to receive Christ and had been baptized so I assumed that he would follow on that road with me. It does seem though that I have drawn closer to the Lord due to the stress from my husband. He is working right now though and so am I, Praise God. I do also believe that things will get worse before they get better. If I really want the Lord to work in his life and to save him from his self destruction then I will pray and fast seriously for him (I pray but have such a hard time fasting!) and the enemy will fight back. Thank you all for your prayers in this. Grany, I would love if you prayed for him like you were my closest relative. You are, dear sister in the Lord.
Love to you all and welcome Lindlou!
Diana
Hi friends,
I'm still reading, too, just not finding time to post much. All the requested prayers are on my list as well.
I'm finding my spiritual attacks are coming in the form of health issues...lots of stuff lately that is trying to knock me off center and get me worrying about 'what ifs'. Hubby's attacks are financial/breadwinner in nature but we're both finding the Lord faithful the more we delve into the Word and get closer in our walk with Him. Also helps to look back and recount the Lord's faithfulness as we face the future. I started reading a book on the power of praise in overcoming obstacles...the Lord defeated the armies of Ammon & Moab for Israel with praise and worship alone (2 Chron.) I used to have a really hard time praising God when things were crummy, but now I'm realizing it's a built-it weapon that I need to make much better use of!
Anyway, wanted to ask a question that's been on my mind for awhile.
What facts/elements of our faith that are in operation now won't be useful after the rapture? I started wondering about this after reading an article that debated whether or not non-Jews would be saved during the Trib. It was an opinion I hadn't considered before (having most of my focus on the Left Behind books mindset.) That led me to wonder about the materials I have collected and websites I've bookmarked. They apply now to those who are unsaved or seeking to mature their faith. But will they be accurate/useful to someone who finds them post-rapture?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Have a blessed week ahead,
Jen
Shalom, all! Here are a few more data points on the weirdness chart:
There is an online Catholic newsletter called "Spirit Daily", which has links to interesting news reports (such as the Old legend reawakened, where a woman in Devon, England found what many described as "the Devil's footprints" in freshly fallen snow, 150 years after they were first reported) as well as some original writing. One of those original writings (Of prophecies, 'warnings') has to do with David Wilkerson's message of March 7, and is (I think) a very reasoned analysis of belief and discernment, of the difference between the human understanding of "soon" and the prophetic meaning of the word, and does "jumping the gun" (i.e., predicting something will happen by such-and-such a date and it actually happens later) make him a "false prophet?"
One thing that struck me in the article, though, and the reason I'm writing now, is something they call "The 1990 Prophecy." The editor received this prophecy back in 1990. He's keeping the person's name secret for now, as well as some of the details, but the prophecy itself is quite interesting. What really struck me were the following statements (don't let the references to Mary throw you off; just consider the part I've bolded):
"I will come not as a man of flesh, but like My mother, who already nurses Me and holds Me in her arms, as a light and power. I will manifest Myself in a series of supernatural events similar to the apparitions but much more powerful. In other words, My second coming will be different than My first, and like My first, it will be spectacular to many but also unknown initially to many, or disbelieved. Yet truly I tell you, the arrogance of the world will have been broken, and so many more than normal will believe.
"I will come in towering light.
"My mother held me in her arms at Medjugorje, as an infant.
"I will come as she has come, in light.
"Know this about the world: I would not appear on television, nor ride a car, nor travel in an airplane.
"Would I come in such a manner?
"Would I live in such a world?
I read this and immediately thought of Maitreya. His coming is supposed to be announced by a star that is visible "by day and by night." This may refer to Venus, which in a rare astronomical event will be visible as the Morning Star and the Evening Star on the same day, March 25 of this year. One of the things that he is supposed to do is that about a week after this event, he will be interviewed on a major US news program (although not using the name Maitreya.) One statement about him "arriving in the clouds" is supposed to refer to his having flown on an airplane from India to England.
It's probably nothing, but I just was struck by how this prophecy in 1990 uses the same terminology as the description recently used by Maitreya's frontman, Benjamin Crumb.
<><
Well, this has started out with a lot of great conversations and I am enjoying the experience greatly. But before I forget what I have started to post here, you all might be blessed watching THIS set of videos. I want to give you a word or two regarding it. I am quite sure a lot of you know who Gloria Copeland is and she has a wonderful friend, Billye Brim, who has "Prayer Mountain in the Ozarks". Billye Brim is a fountain of great inspiration and knowledge and is a very frequent visitor of Israel. Billye and Gloria occasionally get together and discuss the bible on the Believers Voice of Victory TV broadcast. On this link that I have just posted here, there are two weeks of great teaching regarding an Awakening soon to take place in this country and hopefully, the whole world.
If you want to know more you have to watch the videos and I highly recommend it. If you are of the mind set that God isn't being glorified by this ministry, then feel free to move right on to the next post but it will be your loss and not mine.
Diana, we are all brothers and sisters in God's Kingdom and yet I needed to ask your permission to pray as I would pray for my own flesh and blood. You know that you, as DH wife, are endued with the power and authority to stand in the gap for DH. I was overwhelmed when I read that as a man and woman are married, God no longer sees them as 2 people. You are One in the sight of God and that is power of the first degree. Be wise in your words and ask Abba for His Wisdom to get you through the trials to come. As you have already been told, it will probably get a little more testy in the days to come but at least you have all of Abba's promises and provisions to keep you and yours.
JIM C. You are the 3rd person to have mentioned the 1990 Prophecy in the last 3 days and now I have to go check it out. By the way, my email is still be rejected by my internet security application so, this is the only way I have of communicating. I am so tired of fooling with this problem and for sure not going to get it fixed anytime soon by the past experience I have had with the provider of the service.
Grany
Well, I forgot the link so here it is:
AN AWAKENING TO GOD AND A PLACE OF PRAYER and THE GREAT AWAKENING REVIVALS
Sorry about that but allergies are casting me about rather greatly today.
Grany
GALAXIES IN GRIDLOCK Blow up the center of the collision & tell me what you see-(Just keep left clicking)
Jim, I'd be too scared to use that computer interface!
Anne, yes I did feel that tremor. Apparently more are expected. We've had fire and earthquakes...hmmm. If I turn the tap on and the water is red, I'm outa here.
I know somewhere you can run to
;-)
How about me?
Jim C.
You know what "I will come in towering light." reminds me of?
Yes-you've got it. A UFO beam.
Lisa,
I see a horsey.
(Unless you're treating this as a Rorschach ink blot test, in which case all I can say is that you have a really filthy mind.)
<><
Jim C.
I don't see a horse but my daughter & I saw the exact same thing.
Anyone else?
BTW-Don't go see the "Watchman". It's violent, bad language, & there is an inter-dimensional energy guy who is nude w/a"horsey"
showing throughout the film.
Mac, I suggest you keep Hyde away from Jim C's computer!
Dear Anne, I don't know about mac but I only have one thing on my mind - muffins.
Hi...Joining you all in prayer for Darian and his family....and for your husband, Diana.
There sure seems to be a lot going on these days.
Jeri it is always so nice to see you posting and lindalou it is great to see you, too.
Lori thank you so much for the links!!!
Please keep us in your prayers...we could use them! Thank you! I will keep you all in my prayers, too.
<><
Lisa,
I saw something with really long arms. Kinda reminds me of that game, Think Blot. Anyone played that before? It is a game of ink blots and you have to write down what you see. It is so fun!
I have really been blessed by your prayers, friends. Thank you
Diana
Oh, as many of you know, I have been praying about church attendance and my lack there of. I found a church on line that looks interesting. It is 24 minutes away from here. It is a Church of Christ and this is what it says on the web site.
" South Side is dedicated to the restoration of the Lord's church to the first century doctrine in teaching and principles for living." There "motto" is "The bible only makes Christians only". And they are part of the "restoration Plea ministries". Anyone here know anything on this? It looks interesting. They are studying the book of Revelation on Wednesday evenings and they put those studies online. I haven't had a chance to listen yet but will soon. The Lord knows how weary I am of looking for a church. I am thinking about checking it out on Sunday. Any input would be appreciated!
Diana
Diana
Church of Christ is one of those denominations that can be really really liberal or quite sound. our current national leader belonged or did belong to that denomination if that gives you any indication.
my mom and dad told me when I was growing up that you could tell how sound a church was by the number of times a week a church had services. I realize that it doesn't hold true anymore but a long time ago if a church had a sunday morning, sunday evening and midweek service they were generally quite sound. I don't think that is true anymore as unfortunately a great many churches who are involved in the emergent church would fall into that category.
you might trying looking for a Calvary Chapel church near you.
Physicist wins large cash award for proving spiritual dimension fascinating article
Israel finding itself alone
do you mean the alien face?
i do however recommend going to see Escape to Witch Mountain.
if you want a reasonable Christian perspective on movies and dvd's
movieguide.org has been very helpful in this regard
Church of Christ-Well, Have I seen allot of those in the South! You're mainly either Presby, Methodist, Baptist or Church of Christ. In TN there is a Church of Christ on every street corner.
I have a friend who belongs to that denomination. He seems like the real deal but I'm not so sure about the rest. In his church they only sing w/o musical instruments. (They think it's unBiblical.) Also, I have heard that they believe they only have the only Christian version of the truth(similar to the JW’s)-so much for all the others as the Body of Christ.
From what I've heard compared to what I've studied & found Biblical I think they are off base. However, I don't have any personal experience w/them.
Is the Church of Christ a Cult?
(A real good clue is to find out if a Church believes in replacement theology & how they feel about the Jewish people.)
OK,
I give. When my daughter & I saw the picture blown up she said "It looks like Draco"- meaning Satan's face. We both saw the beady eyes & partial facial features. What Diana saw as long arms we saw as wispy horns.
L.A. Mazulli has some insight on "Escape to Witch Mountain" & some bloggers commented on the movie. Posted March 16th.
Hi Diana,
I used to drink heavily to avoid conflicts within myself and it is easy for it to become a crutch and an easy escape mechanism. My problems related to my military experiences and that was my trigger to escape. You need to find out what the trigger or triggers are for your DH and use that as a starting place. Unfortunately you can only do this if your DH is willing to work with you, so you need to pray that he will see that there is a problem. One way is to tell him and show him that when he drinks you and the children are scared of him, please don’t do this when he is drinking but wait until he is sober. Once he realizes that there is a problem, you have started your journey, so please pray that The Lord will reveal this to him so you can start the healing process and you must do this as a family.
Thoughts on Church of Christ. I have a friend who was involved with them and he stated that they are a cult and isolate their members from the world, friends, family, other Christians so that they become self-absorbed and do not grow in The Spirit.
May God bless you and keep you and give you His peace!
Hello everybody,
It's been awhile since I was here, but I wanted to share this with you. Our Pastor is in India presently, and Chuck Missler was our guest speaker this past Sunday.
The message is one that I think every member of the Body of Christ, needs to hear. I think you will be richly blessed.
The website is:
http://www.calvaryabq.org/services.asp?offset=0
Scroll down the page and you will see the sermon listings. It was given 3-15-09.
God bless you all.
Maranatha,
Leanna
Diana,
Sound advice from everyone regarding the Church of Christ - BEWARE
I have a work friend who is of this church & they are way out there in their beliefs. I would classify his particular church as a cult, for sure.
He recently tried to leave the church & they have hounded, harrassed him & sucked him back in.
Very sad.
Also am praying for your hubby.
AND, also for everyone elses prayer requests.
Have a God-filled day everyone!
Hi guys. Thanks for the church info! I actually e-mailed the pastor of the Cavalry Chapel closest to us (almost 2 hours away!) and he said the closest kind of church he knows of that is similar is the Missionary Alliance denomination. I found one of those close to us and e-mailed the pastor there and asked him about the church's position concerning Israel. I am hopeful!
Also...
I think that I had mentioned my daughter's 6th grade class and her study of Islam in the class. I had e-mailed her teacher about it and even offered her some of my books on the subject of Islam because she is a professing Christian and she says she knows nothing about Islam. Well, Victoria was working on homework last night and she had a pentagon shape, again, and this time it was about Muslim worship. She detailed greatly on the paper on who and how they worship. She said that her teacher gives them handouts and they get all of their info from those and then they have to give the papers back to the teacher. So, I have not seen any curriculum on this. I think this stufy has gone way overboard and they are teaching religion in the class. My DH was actually very adamant about me taking her out of the class so that she is not taught the "anti-Christ" religion at her school. He wondered where they would draw the line between teaching the kids how they worship and actually having a demonstration of prayer. I spoke with the pricipal and Victoria will be in the library to do a different project during that time now while the rest of the innocent kids are taught Islam! This has actually really opened up a great discussion between my husband and myself. He fears that it will continue to get more and more in the schools with the push for Islam and I might have to homeschool our two boys when they get to school if it all continues as he thinks it will. And this all coming from DH the day after I wrote to you all about our problems and my prayers for his eyes to be opened! There is a large population of Wiccans around these parts and I asked Victoria what she would do if the school decided to educate her on that religion. She understood completely and knows that they all are really worshipping the evil one and are deceived.
I have to go to work now. Love to you all today and thank you for the prayers to our Abba!
Diana
on the other hand
Movieguide's review of Witch Mountain
we use things like this movie to springboard into discussions of real and entertainment and the fact that there are no aliens on other planets. which is a really pity if you ask me. most movies about aliens/ufo's from other planets visiting earth tend more to be in the us against them vein with them trying to conquer us-like Independence Day. One of my favorite TV shows which Jim C probably remembers was "v" in which the aliens were really lizard people who ate humans and who conquered the earth by dressing up in skin like humans. The Witch Mountain movie is not normative in their portrayal of life being like us and in that the other life tries to save us. The underlying urgency to this movie is that if the alien kids don't get back to their planet their military will come back and conquer earth. Doesn't really sound to me as if the message is aliens are friendly and want to help the earth so not sure how that would be helpful to programming people to accept alien visitors as nice.
in other words-most Hollywood movies while they might be prepping people to believe in life on other planets and UFO's generally have the message that the aliens are bad and want to destroy us sooo I would think while most people might believe I think they would have reservations perhaps about their intentions. unless you think somehow reverse psychology works into this.
Diana
I guess depending on your daughters age the class may or may not be appropriate.
In some ways what they are doing studying Islam is not different than how my teachers taught me mythology but I'll grant you I was probably about 11 or 12 at the time. I don't necessarily think that studying either one is particularly bad for kids so long as the parent is involved as you are and teaching them truth at the same time. It will make them better versed eventually in why the believe what they believe and will make them more effective in witnessing for Christ. There is the obvious downside so I really think it depends on age, maturity of the child, parental involvement and extent of the studies. For example I would have no problem with my son, at an older age learning about Wicca, but if they wanted them to write up spells, cast spells etc I'd draw the line there.
The problem isn't necessarily the teaching of things but the lack of parental involvement in teaching our kids truth and what they believe and why they believe it.
Anne
in reference to your comment about people being saved, non Jews, during the tribulation a couple of thoughts for what it's worth.
1-there are people who don't believe that anyone will be saved after the rapture whether Jewish or not. kind of makes one wonder why God would take the time to have 144k witnesses though doesn't it? to whom are they witnessing? and what about John's vision of people without number who have been martyred for the faith?
2-only Jewish people being saved is one I hadn't heard and it makes more sense than the first point that no one is saved. I don't think scripture supports the first view. This view is more interesting in that it is only Jews that are saved. the problem that I have with this view is that one can currently count the number of Jews on the planet. John's vision by those in the futurist camp (not preterist or amillennialist in other words) is that John's vision of Saints without number who have been martyred takes place within the Tribulation. There are those who believe those saints to be all the saints killed for the faith throughout the years but that view doesn't make sense withing the context of the passage and doesn't follow the outline given to John to write the things that are, the things that were and the things that are to come. That vision of saints without number takes place during prophecies that most futurists see being fulfilled during the tribulation. So to get Saints without number would require I think more than Jews being saved. Also, we know that 2/3's of the Jews will be killed during the Tribulation and the Bible talks about a 1/3 remnant being saved. the implication is that the 2/3's are eternally lost not just physically killed. Since Christ will raise the Tribulation martyr's at the end of the Tribulation what would be the significance of the 2/3's being lost if even a part of them were to be raised a short while later.
Those who believe in other than a pretrib rapture view will tell you that those saints without number are the believers killed during the tribulation before the rapture occurs
hope that helps
I have not seen the movie but from Marzulli's blog-they show real UFO footage in the beginning of it-Area 51 & the idea of full disclosure. (And this is a "kids" movie no less.)
I guess the idea is to expose the public to UFO subject matter enough that people will become desensitized and not alarmed at the thought of sharing our universe w/other beings. (Remember what affect "War of the Worlds" had in the old-n-days?)
It's like watching violence & sex so much that it no longer bothers anyone's conscience to view it.
The "Watchman" is similar in that it introduces an "inter-dimensional" being.
I don't know if these Aliens are friendly or not in the movie but that will probably be introduced next. Some type of "Global Warming" they are coming to save us from ourselves type thing.
The Alliance Doctrinal Statement
Diana, their statement looks good & they believe in the active working of the Holy Spirit in believer's lives. I remember hearing from out TN Pastor that Churches which have a heart for "Missionary" work are typically healthier spiritually. (The persecuted & missionary Churches in Revelation-Jesus had nothing bad to say about them. Just to hang tight.)
If you ordered that free DVD “The Living Stones” you could give it to the pastor to watch regarding the Messianic Jews in Israel.
Harvard Chaplain Oversees Godless 'Congregations' for Humanists
Oh yuck.
I think it is important to note that there are at least 3 major denominations in the US that refer to themselves as Church of Christ. I believe there are many smaller denominations (and some cults) that also use Church of Christ or something similar in their name.
The three major ones in the United States are (in no particular order):
(Much of this is from Wikipedia articles on each of the three).
NUMBER 1 (Sounds like the church Diana was considering was one of these. I checked out their website and saw a guitar in one of the sermon videos they have online. So, it’s apparently not of the type that don’t use musical instruments.)
Churches of Christ
Churches of Christ are a movement of autonomous Christian congregations associated with one another through common beliefs and practices. They seek to base doctrine and practice on the Bible alone, and see themselves as restoring the New Testament church established by Christ.
Historically, Churches of Christ in the United States were recognized as a distinct movement by the U.S. Religious census of 1906. Prior to that they had been reported in the religious census as part of the Movement that had its roots in the Second Great Awakening under the leadership of Thomas and Alexander Campbell, Walter Scott, and Barton W. Stone. Those leaders had declared their independence from their Presbyterian roots, seeking a fresh start to restore the New Testament church, and abandoning creeds. The names Church of Christ, Christian Church and Disciples of Christ were adopted by the movement because they believed these terms to be biblical. Other names the movement did not believe to be biblical were rejected, such as Campbellite, Stoneite, Campbell-Stone movement, and even Restoration Movement. Even so, the rejected terms are used by those outside the movement to identify it.
A split occurred between those who used musical instruments in worship (now usually known as Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ and Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)) and those who did not because their use is not mentioned in the New Testament. It is this latter branch which is the subject of this article. Though officially recognized as distinct movements from 1906, the actual separation of the Churches of Christ from the Christian Churches had already been taking place gradually for decades.
NUMBER 2 (I attended a very solid and theological sound Christian Church in Salem for 7 years. I can’t speak for all of them though. By the way, the church I attended was affiliated with the branch of Independent Christian Churches that uses musical instruments in worship.)
Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ
The Independent Christian Churches/Churches of Christ are a part of the Restoration Movement and share historical roots with the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) and the a cappella Churches of Christ.
These churches are best defined as those in the Restoration Movement who have chosen not to be identified with the denomination known as the "Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)." The obvious difference from the Churches of Christ is the use of instrumental music in worship. The instrumental Christian Churches and the a cappella Churches of Christ are otherwise fundamentally identical. There are no denominational ties, and therefore, no official statistical data, but the 2006 Directory of the Ministry documents some 5,500 congregations. Many estimate the number to be over 6,000.
NUMBER 3 (Definitely, the most theologically liberal of the three.)
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)
The Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) is a Mainline Protestant denomination in North America. It is often referred to as The Christian Church, Disciples of Christ, or more simply as The Disciples. It has made significant contributions to worldwide Christianity through the evangelistic work of its missionary societies and through participation in the ecumenical dialogue of the 20th century. The Christian Church was a charter participant in the formation of both the World Council of Churches and the Federal Council of Churches (now the National Council of Churches), and continues to be engaged in ecumenical conversations.
CMA churches are great!
Ravi Zacharias has a CMA background I believe.
I like Foursquare churches too;-)
Jib, I think you must mean Jen, not me.
I do remember the first time I heard of the theory that only Jews would be saved during the Tribulation. It was a comment made here by Lori's uncle Bob last September, I think. Made my hair stand straight up on end (and I have very long hair), cuz I thought about all the people I know and love who are not saved and would not have a chance after the rapture. I think at the time we were wondering about the Mark Blitz blood moon thing and I was praying fervently for many family members and friends.
OK, I found the post by Lori (Campsmore) from September 21, 2008 1:40 PM. It is communication between Lori, Uncle Bob and one or two others. While all of it is interesting, it's too long to repost here but I copied the chilling part:
After that another group of Benjaminites needs a bride, which they get from Shilow. The key here is Shilow. That was the place of the original tent of meeting for God before Solomon's temple. This group of Benjaminites is the tribulation church.
I wish I had hours to go into more details right now, but Shilow is the big deal for me. It was impressed on me that this meant that the church during tribulation times would be solely Jewish. It would include no Gentiles, which makes sense when we consider that the "time of the Gentiles" would have been completed. What God seemed to be impressing on me was that all of us are wrong when we think (like the Left Behind series) that our loved ones who are left behind after the rapture will have a chance. I believe from what I am seeing in this shadow that all Gentile eyes will be blinded, like the Jewish eyes are now. This thought sent chills up me. It makes me realize even more the need for evangelism now. I should have seen that because the 144,000 evangelists are all Jewish. When the days of the Gentiles is completed, it is completed. Our loved ones have until the rapture.
My response to him:
Dear Uncle Bob,
I have one question regarding the theory that only Jews will be saved after the rapture. So are you saying that the evangelists will only be evangelizing the Jewish population? I sure hope you're wrong. lori
His comeback:
Dear Lori,
That is the impression I am getting. It is totally new to me, too, but as I said, it does make sense since we are told that the end comes when the time of the Gentiles is complete. I guess complete means complete. love, Uncle Bob
Dear Bob, what you are saying is very frightening. I do remember you telling me that in the Bible, a woman always symbolized the church. Please tell me more of what you believe. With the Spirit of God. Tom
WMD sent this out today Millionaire Patriot Wants YOU Armed and Trained!
OK, so we are looking ahead into the future of riots & anarchy. Do I really feel the Holy Spirit leading me to be an expert marksman? Or is this a fleshy precaution? How can God show His glory to His children if we have already prepared such a mental back up plan?
Such as this story:
A girl went to her friends house and she ended up staying longer than planned, and had to walk home alone.
She wasn't afraid because it was a small community and she lived only a few blocks away.
As she walked along under the bike trail Diane asked God to keep her safe from harm and danger.
When she reached the alley, which was a shortcut to her house, she decided to take it.
However, halfway down the alley she noticed a man standing at the end as though he were waiting for her.
She became uneasy and began to pray, asking for God's protection.
Instantly a comforting feeling of quietness and security wrapped round her, she felt as though someone was walking with her.
When she reached the end of the alley, she walked right past the man and arrived home safely.
The following day, she read in the newspaper that a young girl had been raped in the same alley just twenty minutes after she had been there.
Feeling overwhelmed by this tragedy and the fact that it could have been her, she began to weep.
Thanking the Lord for her safety and to help this young woman, she decided to go to the police station.
She felt she could recognize the man, so she told them her story.
The police asked her if she would be willing to look at a lineup to see if she could identify him.
She agreed and immediately pointed out the man she had seen in the alley the night before.
When the man was told he had been identified, he immediately broke down and confessed.
The officer thanked Diane for her bravery and asked if there was anything they could do for her.
She asked if they would ask the man
one question. Diane was curious as to why he had not attacked her.
When the policeman asked him, he answered, "Because she wasn't alone.She had two tall men walking on either side of her".
Hi Anne,
Yes, it was me that asked for comments, although I had completely forgotten about Uncle Bob's thoughts that Lori posted. I had read on another site a rather heated discussion about the same subject. That was what got me thinking about it in the first place. I have lots of materials and stuff on the computer that I would expect would be found by those not taken in the rapture, but it makes me wonder if it will be helpful to them if they aren't available to be saved. My original thought was about the work of the Holy Spirit and how much aid/comfort/guidance those left behind (Jew and Gentile alike) are going to get once the church is gone. I've read various views on the matter and it ties in with the identity of the restrainer. I picture people quickly searching Scripture for answers (those who were close to being saved and know enough to go first to the Bible) and then being misled into thinking that they can depend upon the Lord in the same way that we do today. Will leaving materials in strategic places be helpful or useless? It's not something I have a firm opinion on at this point so I'm trusting the Holy Spirit to press it upon me either way instead.
By the way, I agree with Jim C's assessment about the uptick in spiritual warfare. Everywhere I turn there are people struggling with things they can't put their fingers on. In the last 24 hours, we've had 2 close friends (both women in their early 30s) go to the hospital with heart trouble. In one case, tests came back fine; still waiting to hear on the other. Reminds me of the Scripture that says men's hearts will faint from fear (Luke 21:25). I think I'm going to find one of those pocket-sized Bibles so I can carry it with me everywhere! We need to be in the Word in the most literal sense of the meaning these days!
Blessings,
Jen
Lisa
1-I don't believe in UFO's
2-the footage is generally only held to be of UFO's by those who believe in UFO's
3-some of the footage were actually outtakes from movies
4-the reason the footage is used is to set up one of the underlying themes of the movie that the government is covering up the existence of actual ufo's and in fact one of the important peripheral characters in the movie is the main proponent that a government conspiracy exists to cover up the existence of ufo's. consipracy theory and shadowy government agencies outside the realm of law really are a big theme in this movie
5-this really is one of the few visitation movies in which the visitation is mostly positive although the threat of less positive visitation is mentioned more than once.
6-I really think the blogger that you mentioned is reading waaaaay to much into this movie and it's purposes
7-it is a remake of an old classic because there are no good new ideas in Hollywood
sorry bout that Anne
I view the time of the gentiles being complete as in the time for the gentiles to tell the gospel message is complete and that the bulk of the people saved from Pentecost to now have been gentiles.
further gentiles were considered righteous during the OT period and could be counted as faithful the example being Melchizedek (which I know is not spelled correctly). Also The Jewish nation did not exist until the time of Abraham so the people before Abraham such as Noah were not jewish either.
Diana,
I forgot to mention this earlier to you.
I highly recommend:
Praise & Coffee
Sue (who has been invited here) does alot of ministry work centered around marriage & issues regarding husband & wives.
Especially check out her site on Tuesdays - she does a "Two shall become One" post every week.
You can glean much by going through some of her older posts, as well.
May help with your DH situation.
I haven't read this yet. But here's Dr Walvoord's take on it.
The Times of the Gentiles
Did I say this already? Joel has two posts today,
U.N. PANEL SAYS WORLD SHOULD DITCH THE DOLLAR: World leaders discussing move to single currency
WILL BARAK JOIN BIBI?
Jib,
Believing in UFO's is certainly not a requirement.
If we are all still here long enough-there may come a day when you do believe it. The people who have had supernatural & other encounters w/these beings sure believe it. Not to mention encounters w/these things have been increasing in frequency along w/every other Anti-Christ development occuring in our day.
Chuck Missler & Chuck Smith also believe it.
I would reason that it's better to be safe than sorry-just in case something supernaturally bizarre comes our way.
That is why I keep my kids away from these kind of movies & entertainment.
Top Iraqi Sunni leader al-Samarai assasinated
Former Israeli president Katsav indicted for rape (he denies)
Advances made on Northrop's electric laser
Passed in House today; HR 1388 "Mandatory National Service" Act going to senate and BO next
HR 645 National Emergency Centers
The Brown shirtts?
Free Speech Fades in America
European broadcasters face political 'counter-reformation'
Leaked Australian blacklist reveals banned sites
Iran's Revolutionary Guards dismantles unspecified number of Web sites
Iran TV: Domestic satellite 'completes mission'
US ready for any North Korean missile
America 'Moves Towards Abandonment of Israel'
IDF to US: Israel Closing In on Taking Military Aim at Iran
PA plans to fly glider painted in Palestinian colors over Jerusalem
Israel seizes Hamas political leaders
Netanyahu seeking Obama meeting in May U.S. trip
Russia backs EU in pre-G20 stimulus debate
2.5 Million Protest Sarkozy Economic Policies
U.N. panel says world should ditch dollar
USA Technologies Extends Leadership in Unattended Cashless Transactions and Networking Technology with Issuing of 69th Patent
The world economy is set to shrink... the first global contraction in 60 years
Europe plans to use its own carrier rocket Vega instead of Russian ones Vega is arabic for "falling vulture"
Russia and US discuss resetting of ties
Russian-Chinese exercises to be held in China in summer "dubbed Peace Mission 2009"
Values to form core of EU 'Eastern Partnership'
This looks good!
Celebrate Jesus – A Christian Perspective of the Biblical Feasts
Wow, Jim G.,thanks for all for all of the church info!! This has really been helpful. I am planning on listening to some of the teachings online before I visit anywhere.
Victoria was very pleased that I pulled her out of class today. She is going to the library for the rest of the project to work on something else. They are making a huge pentagon shape made of the smaller pentagons that are full of info on Islam. She is in 6th grade. Now, my question is this. Would any school in the US now teach as much about Christianity and Jesus as my daughter's school is teaching about Islam? Would the kids be allowed to make symbols of Christianity and put them up on the wall? Would they make it homework to write on how a person worships Jesus? I asked the teacher about this and she thinks that kids are brought up in Christian homes so they already know all of that stuff. I disagree. Kids DO NOT know. When the teacher asked the kids in the class how many of them had Abraham or Noah in their religion, 3 people raised their hands. The teacher even admitted to not knowing much aobut Islam but when I offered her some good books on the subject she did not respond. I think a class on Islam in college would be good to take but not in 6th grade and not in a public school. Also, when a religion is being taught in school it always has the teacher's own spin on it as well. So now we have the teacher possibly having a different opinion than the parent and that will always come through in the teaching. Big conflict for a young, impressionable preteen. Anyway, Victoria is relieved to be doing something else instead.
Have a good night y'all. i'll check in later.
Diana
Dr. Yulish was interviewed on Marzulli's radio show today & I saw a great testimony on his site you might like to read. He is a Messanic Jewish believer.Stephen Yulish Testimony What a tough nut he was to crack! but Praise God-it was accomplished. We should never give up hope on our friends & loved ones.
He also is under the opinion that the UFO issue will be involved in the "great deception" after the catching up of the Saints.
On his home page he wrote an article re this called: "War of the Worlds Not in Vain".
This was interesting from Mark Biltz today:
Digging a little deeper...
God is very scientific and mathematical
One other very significant event happens on Passover this year! Because the sun and the moon and the stars are set on their courses and don’t deviate, eclipses and many celestial events can be determined way in advance. The sun was created on the 4th day in Genesis. That means it was a Wednesday.
We now know the year that it takes for the earth to go around the sun is approx 365.25 days. Or 365 days and 6 hours. Which is why after 4 years we have to add a day to keep things in sync. 6 x 4=24hrs. As you know there are 7 days in a week and 52 weeks in a year. Well, 52 x 7 is 364 days. So week wise a year is 52 weeks 1 day and 6 hours. This is why one year your birthday is on a Tuesday and the next year a Wednesday. Because of this, when the year is up, the sun is not in the same position as it originally was but on a different day of the week and in a position 6hrs later. So, it takes 28 years for the sun to be in the exact same position that it was at the very beginning on a Wednesday.
Every 28 years the Jews, who always love to come up with a reason to bless God, bless the Lord for the creation of the sun as it is back in the same place it was when God created it in Gen 1!
Well guess what? It is a very rare event when Passover falls on a Wednesday coinciding exactly with the very same year as the blessing for the creation of the sun occurs! It happened on Passover, the year of the actual Exodus with Moses, it happened on Passover the year of Haman and the book of Esther, and it happens this year in a few weeks!! If you have time as an individual or a group join with the Jewish community on Wednesday April 8th and bless the Lord that He brought the “Light of the world” on the very day of Passover this year!
What does this mean for believers? I don’t know other than to realize a new cycle is beginning, as Nisan is also the beginning of the religious year. Let's not forget that we are in the first year of a new 7 year cycle (that began last September) and finally the beginning of a new 28 year solar cycle. How's that for signs of new beginnings? And God said He has placed the sun in the heaven for signs during His Festivals so let’s keep our eyes open!
Diana,
Islam- The Devil’s Greatest Illusion Some insight re: the Christian teacher's lack of sense.
Maybe @ the end of the year you can give her a gift of appreciation. "The Mahdi, Islam's Long Awaited Messiah or "Obsession" video & one of those Christian books you wanted her to read. (:
I woke up one of our Christian neighbors to the fact by loaning her one of those videos. She really pooh-poohed it until she saw the documentary.
I was discussing this w/a friend today whose kids moved from a Christian school (it closed) to a public school. She said that they are really lucky to have had Christian teachers 2 years in a row. During the "Religions around the World" session their teacher spent an entire day on Jesus & only briefly touched on the others she was required to mention as well. (“For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. ..." type of thing.)
At her Public school they also have a "Mom's in Touch" prayer group & also "Teacher's in Touch" meetings. Apparently most of the teachers at this particular school attend the monthly meetings.
Another friend of mine has her daughter in Public School & they also have "Mom's in Touch" there.
She said it makes a huge difference in the school when Christian parents are active & praying over the Children in the school.
Lisa, shalom! RE: "Race to Witch Mountain"; I saw it last weekend and enjoyed it. In the opening sequence, there's a mixture of newspaper headlines and videos of different UFOs. I know enough about the cases they were using to recognize all the newspaperr articles they were using were faked -- they looked real, but the names of the newspapers were wrong. Likewise, with the UFO videos, I recognized several that have been shown to be fake.
As for the characters, the aliens are good. They are children (which is why the saucer crashed -- even alien parents have problems keeping their kids from borrowing the family vehicle, too) who are trying to retrieve data from an experiment their parents were doing. The experiment shows how their people could clean up their planet. Opposing them are two factions: one is their own military. They want to just take over Earth, within the next 24 hours, in fact. To keep the kids from returning with the experiment results, they've put the parents in jail and sent a terminator-type creature who will not stop until the kids are dead. The other faction is a secret government agency that wants to capture the aliens and dissect them. Helping the aliens is a down-and-out cab driver who is a former mob wheelman who is trying to go straight, and a disgraced astrophysicist.
<><
MAC, Thank you for the great link to The Times of the Gentiles. I have spent about 2 hours reading and gleaning the wisdom and I feel greatly blessed. Dr. Walvoord makes it come alive and next to Dr. Fruchtenbaum, he's my favorite.
I also like the function of the special scripture link that is present on the site. I just placed my mouse on the scripture and a new little window pops up with the actual verse. When I clicked on the link, NetBible comes up with a zillion other versions of the same verse. I like it! Oh, this is a great age to be living in and so much easier than "The Good Ole Days".
Love to you all,
Grany
Shalom, all! After a few days of thinking about David Wilkerson's advice to have a 30-day supply of food available, I told my ex that I was going to buy 30 days worth of food for her and my girls. (The oldest one is in college -- she'll have to fend for herself, unless she comes to stay with me.) I went to the store and bought a bunch of canned goods in proteins, vegetables, fruits, and breads. (I also included two bottles of omega 3 oil.) The cost was about $120.
I drove the food up to her this morning, and together we noted just how much the girls (both teens) eat and based on that, how many days worth of food I had bought and how much more was needed. Frankly, I was shocked. All that food, which filled up the trunk area of my car, was less than half the amount needed. It made me really rethink all the food I've been buying for myself, trying to stock up.
Has anyone else been trying to set aside 30-days worth of food?
<><
Lisa,
That info you passed on regarding the Passover this year was interesting. Makes me wonder, considering the last two times this happened the Jews were delivered from their enemies if they will again be miraculously dilivered by the Lord this Passover. We'll know soon enough.
Lisa
Satan could use anything for the great deception including religious beliefs and it is pure speculation as to what the great deception is other than God will allow people will believe it. to say that ufo's are going to be it or even part of it is pure speculation and completely without Biblical foundation regardless who believes it. for all we know the great deception is that people are going to believe that the AC is a man of peace when it might actually be obvious to the contrary. It might be related to the rapture it might not. The way things are going the great deception might be that forming a one world government is the right thing to do or that global climate change is real, true and that man is responsible.
science fiction is a fairly harmless genre all things considered and there are worse genres out there.
Mac
that was an excellent article
Bible.org is a great resource. You can click on "List Articles" then select "By Author" or "By Topic". I'm currently reading what Dr Walvoord says in response to psttribulationism.
Posttribulationism Today
Jim, I have stored up about 6 months provision. I thought and prayed about it for awhile, kind of just not getting around to it, until I sensed the Lord saying firmly to me, Do it now!
So, I ordered one of those packaages from a company in Utah, presumably Mormons. I have supplemented it with canned fruits, veg, beans etc when those items are on sale. I watch the experation dates and if I think I won't use something up, I donate it to a food shelf about 3 months before the date. I tell the manager and she puts the items at the front of the shelf so it will be taken first. This does not seem wasteful to me since I like to give to the food shelf anyway.
My home is the place my adult children will get to if there is an emergency, so I have prepared for six adults and two small children. I also prepared with toiletries, female supplies, first aid, batteries, etc. I have water on hand and plain chlorine bleach, plus a filter. Winters are long, hard and dangerous here. I also sense the Lord telling me to prepare with a woodstove. I need my DH's help on that one and we haven't gotten it done yet.
If I am taken out of here (by death or the rapture) I am still glad I've done this. It will be helpful to someone, if not my family, and I feel I was prompted by the Lord and was being obedient.
This year I am determined to learn how to grow vegetables and some berries. Maybe a couple fruit trees.
Lisa, thanks for the link on Islam, I will check it out. Also will consider the suggestion to give her a book or video as a year end gift! I do have that video. It came free to me in the mail.
Jim C,
I also am storing up food. I have been doing so since last fall. I know that I do not have nearly enough considering I have 4 kids. They eat so much!! I also need to do something aobut water but have run out of storage space. I felt the Lord was telling me to get extra food, toiletries since last fall. I did not share this with DH, thinking he would think me nuts. One day a month or so ago he told me that maybe we should be gettting extra food. I loved to show him our stash!
Diana
Very good commentary on our economy in the last week or so
I do not know if any of you read this guy's stuff and I do not even remember where I found this.
Read the postings for the last couple of days.
Much love to you all,
Grace
MAC, that site is tremendous and I think it should be a part of our regular bible searches, so I am putting it on my homepage so it is there at a click. If you keep this up, I will have nothing but bible references on my homepage and then what will DH do when he wants to see the news? I know! I will make just a link for news feeds like Google just put up. Now if I can learn how to work it and it doesn't disappear into the wonder world of cyberspace.
I watched Grant Jeffrey last night teaching on the Antichrist and it was very, very interesting. I love to hear him anyway because his voice doesn't hurt my ears like some of the others. His remarks are well worth the time spent and he has some very strong arguments that are needed so we can remain balanced in our perspectives. I am all for Rhema word regarding God's scriptures but I am totally turned off to the wonder/wander lust of some people who have set their selves up as the authority on the real revelations. All of that harkens back to previous times when charlatans entered into the sheepfolds and introduced doctrines of demons. Especially in this time and place, simply because at any moment from this point on, Christ could call us, as Born Again Believers in Jesus Christ, Home. Then we would leave behind a legacy of fairy tales and vain imaginings. I pray that none of us here have that to answer to Him for and the best way to guard against it is very simple. Stay away from it! If you think you are receiving a new Revelation or a private one, look up the scripture that tells you, It Ain't So! Just as there isn't a legal word "Ain't" the same is said about private or new revelation. Bible says it and I believe it, and that is that!
I don't believe and never will believe in aliens, mythology, Big Foot, Little Foot, apparitions, nor do I ingest LSD, Angel dust, heavenly feathers, whacking and smacking demons and devils, and I don't even practice chants. Cinderweller never existed, pumpkins don't turn into coaches, and mice don't become footmen, Hansel and Gretel are only names and I don't bake children either. Snow White should never have taken up with a bunch of dwarfs in the first place and women don't live in shoes. So, now you know! I am real Stick in the Mud of the first kind and I intend to stay that way. I will not be around when the Antichrist appears in this world scene that is fast approaching and anything with 10 horns I am staying completely in another atmospheric realm from. Don't have any desire to bow down to any man and I won't have to lose my head over a egomaniac because of it. My feet are shod with the Gospel of Peace and quite capable of calling on God to put all evil under my feet. If my feet are shod with the Gospel of Peace, then peace has to be the victory and Jesus has already defeated our enemy!
Now I have to conquer my oven and get to cooking for DH and DW.
Love you all,
Grany
Diana, Shalom! You may want to consider getting a water filter, given your water needs. What I'm doing is building up a two-day supply for 3 people that I keep in a closet; and then I'm keeping an extra 4 gallons on a rotating basis. The grocery store across the street has a Calgon water station. You can either buy the water bottle there (70 cents) or bring in your own bottle (25 cents). I keep 4 gallons of that water on hand, using it to make my coffee every day and refilling that container when its empty so that I'm always getting fresh water in.
Now that I'm awake and thinking, that $120 isn't so bad. On the camping/emergency web sites, the lowest price for a kit of food for 3 people for 30 days is just under $600, not counting the shipping.
The only problem I can see is that we simply used the serving size printed on the food cans, which can be very small if the company is trying to convince you the food is low calorie. In other words, we may be greatly underestimating their food needs.
<><
Diana
didn't mean to offend. different times. my folks wouldn't have thought twice about your daughters assignment if I had brought it home at the same age when I was that age (mid 70's). They would have considered it learning about other cultures because the times were different-Islam wasn't trying to take over the world, 9/11 hadn't happened although the hostage crises was looming in the distant future, and Christianity was still more or less respected and not denigrated to the point it is now and the ACLU had only just started trying to kick God out of schools. I do believe we did have a dress up day where we had to dress up as one of the grecoroman gods or goddesses or perhaps had to write a paper on which one we would like to be. I think it was dress up and I'm also pretty sure I went as Athena and my mom helped me make the costume.
of course there were some in our church who were aghast that mom was letting me take tap and ballet due to the "skimpy" costumes but saw nothing wrong with her daughter being a majorette.
I have to honestly say I probably wouldn't have a problem with the assignment but have to admit in this day and age I might dig my heels in and pull him just because I know Christianity would not be presented in the same fashion and they are just doing all this to be politically correct.
you know it's odd
we store stuff just because my DH and I talk about what you all are doing but I just can't shake the impression that we at least aren't going to need it or we won't be in this location-one or the other. I also can't shake the impression that it has something to do with this summer because at least for a week we will be with family in florida. we are the guardians of my brothers kids and they are the guardians of our son. just a nagging feeling at times about that whole trip.
Alesia, thanks for the thoughtful link to Praise and Coffee. I will check it out.
Jib, I am sorry. I was not offended at all by your comments. I know what you mean. We studied the Greek gods too. Yes, and the Greek gods aren't the ones trying to take over the world today! LOL Yes, it is the times. Victoria told me that two of her friends dads are uncomfortable with the study as well and are considering pulling them out of class as well. I think the teacher needs to be woken up (as many Christians in this country) and this may help.
Diana
Marge,
Did you know about the Stand Up for Marriage rally in Olympia yesterday? My husband and I went with a small group from our church. About 2,400 people met on the capital steps to let our state representatives know that we are against their desire to legalize gay marriage in WA State.
Here's a story about it if you are interested. Of course our liberal media barely covered it.
My husband and I have begun storing food as well. We also are going to stop throwing away our old phone books...they are easier to store and much less expensive than Charmin! :)
Kathy,
No, I wasn't aware of anything like that going on in Olympia. I haven't been following the news, as of late.
Good for you, and your husband! Making a stand is always a good thing!
Thanks for the link. I'll have to check it out.
I hadn't thought about keeping telephone books. It does put a new meaning in...let your fingers do the walking though...doesn't it?
(moan) Sorry, I couldn't help myself :)
Gotta run for now. Are you getting tired of our rain, or what? (smile)
Stay warm/dry!
Love,
Marge
Joel's new post:
INSIDE THE REVOLUTION: PRESIDENT OBAMA APPEALS TO LEADERS OF IRAN, BUT IGNORES THEIR END TIMES THEOLOGY
You know what Marge? The rain actually doesn't bother me. You know what else?
You made me laugh!
On our way to the rally, a friend who lives on a small, ten acre farm told us about Monsanto and their plan to take over the seed industry. Now that got me to thinking about down the road, another way AC will control buying and selling...
Here's an interesting read regarding Monsanto...
Kathy,
Actually, I was born in Tacoma, so I'm used to the rain, too. But sometimes...it gets me down :(
I love seeing the sun shine! As well as the Son shine :)
Monty, is a neat little area. My father's family hail from the Aberdeen, WA. area. (transplanted from Iowa, in about 1910)
I'm glad you got a laugh out of my telephone book comment. There are times, I have to slap myself to stay in line :)
Thanks for the links, and information!
Love,
Marge
I really have to take off now. (to Summit View, near Parkland)
Jim C.
I've never had so much food stored. It's probably only a month supply.(Ann I remember you & a few others have had a burden about keeping a reserve about a year ago?)
I had brought up Wilkerson's warning & 30 day suggestion @ my Bible study two weeks ago. The study leader looked @ me cross-eyed & no one else said anything.
(No doubt I'm cast as the Black Sheep of the fold.)
Then this past meeting one of the ladies who was not there when I relayed the warning said she had something to say.
Her husband went to the men's breakfast meeting and Pastor Ray told the men that they should have a 30 day supply of food on hand.
I said-Oh, he probably had seen Wilkerson's warning-to which they all agreed.
Did someone post this already? I've seen it at other blogs but I can't remember if it was posted here before. Sorry if it was.
New Sixth-Sense Technology
"A genius team at MIT takes us one step closer to living in Minority Report by creating a finger-controlled phone/3-D projector."
Last line from the video spoken by the presenter who I think is an MIT professor:
"Who knows, in another 10 years we may have a 'sixth-sense' brain implant."
I'm not big on technology, but this really gave me the shivers.
Lisa, you're not a black sheep. You're just a member of the Tin-Foil-Hat Brigade.
;-)
<><
Wow lots of comments and info I'll never get caught up!
Just thought I'd pop on and say hi though!
<><
Terence Corcoran: Is this the end of America?
There are a number of interesting comments that follow the article as well such as...
...The food commodities of the world are securely tied to this crash, it will be not be pretty as food is the 'new oil'.
Grany,
Your March 19, 2009 8:32 PM comment regarding NETBible (aka NEXTBible) inspired me to check it out. Thanks. I hadn't seen that site before.
I was a little confused by the use of two names for the site. In some places it is NEXTBible and in other places it is NETBible.
What further confuses the issue is the fact that NET (The NET Bible, New English Translation Bible - 1996) is one of the many translations they have available on the site.
Did anyone have a chance to click on the tab labeled ITL - draft? That is a cool interlinear feature.
Can anyone figure out the color coding of the lines they draw connecting the English with the NTGreek?
I'm sure someone here can figure it out. If you do, would you let me know? Thanks.
Well Jim,
I consider you one of my brethren in crime.* If I'm not a "normal" Evangelical then you can't be a typical Catholic either.
HE-HE-HE
I have proof than I'm A-typical since I have not read or seen the movie "Twilight." Nor do I have any inkling of desire to fantasize about falling in love with a Vampire & the "forbidden love" scenario.
From what I can tell-that makes me a definite minority of the women I know & have met. Christian & Non.
Catholic Blogger & opinion of Twilight. (You'll see on this page @ the Chicago "Twilight" Convention they had two actual Occultist Vampire experts give presentations.)
Is this just a worm on a hook that could eventually catch a big fish?
As Christians do we feel impervious to delving into occultist or strange "Fantasy" movies & material because the underlying tone & messages could never have any negative effect on us?
As long as it's supposedly "make believe" it's OK? Such as how God is portrayed in "The Shack".
There is a subtle deception going on in the venues of Hollywood, Music, Media, & Literature & it stems from an evil source.
It's a shame there are so many Christains who do not discern it & at least prevent their children from being exposed. Yes, even if it means "being the bad guy" when all of their school mates are talking about it.
Lisa;
Although I do not believe in UFO's in the traditional world view (that they are aliens from outer space). I was indoctrinated in this view in school ect. until I came to see the truth and possibility of them being evil spirit beings (or at the very least secret gov. projects). I do however believe that there is a possibility that they will play a part in the coming deception.
I cannot see any other reason for the whole UFO indoctrination into main-line thinking that is going on at this time in our history if it did not play a part in the end times. Just take a look at children's cartoon shows, there are so many now with various alien themes and TV in general is being flooded with UFO themed programing. I was watching the program "UFO hunters" the other day and they were saying that sightings and encounters in the US and Europe are increasing by 100 times the number of just a few decades ago. Why would this type of thing be happening now. I think we may be reaching a point of "full disclosure" soon to come.
It could also be the rantings of my humanistic thinking, I do not know?? It does seem like we are being prepared for something to come of it all.
Also, did any one hear if Glenn Beck has said any more about those FEMA camps and that whole conspiracy thing going around the net??
I have to go get my tinfoil hat now!
Maranatha!
Where do I get one of them hats?
the vampire stuff is a different story and I think parental involvement is key.
DH told me that after he and his sibs saw Mary Poppins that they went home lined up blocks and snapped their fingers to try and get the blocks to move. his mom then told them about make believe, special effects and was able to demonstrate by reversing a home movie how the blocks looked like the were picking themselves up. they apparently didn't try to make the blocks move again.
Yes I think some fantasy is ok some is not (like twilight) and I do think it is ok so long as one has the conversation that it is all make believe and not real. It is extended imagination nothing more.
UFO literature and science fiction has been around since the 1920's and interest waxes and wanes with taste. there are no more ufo/alien movies out than there have been at other times. If anything the 70's and 80's were slightly more populated with such.
this "cover up" is one of the main governmental conspiracy theories out there-that we are not alone. it has been going on since the late 60's and earlier and is imo no more intense or out in the open than it was then.
as to the popularity of the genre-it does play to primal fears and people like a good scar occasionally.
The ufo's may or may not play into endtimes deception. One could just as easily say that due to the increase in dark movies and books such as twilight that vampires will be the big deception because there is a substantial increase in the number of books about vampires as well as movies over any other time prior to this.
Sorry if this story by Glenn Beck has already been posted...
Hey guys-Jenny here,
We started talking about storing food about two summers ago. One handy web site was going to a LDS site for food storage calculator. I'm not LDS , but the site was very informative. Apparently it is not uncommon for them to store food for approx. 2 years at a time. They seem to already have food co-ops in place and may be the best prepared for this situation. The food calculator gives you the amt. of how much food you will need for a year but you can divide by 12, 8, 6 depending on how many months you want to go.(the biggest grain we stored up was rice, you can buy it in 50 lb bags at reg. grocery store everytime you go and it is not expensive). Not that you need all this type of food because of the way food is packaged now, but it makes you think of all the categories and helps you organize. You also need about 1 gallon of water for every adult per day. Distilled water is the cheapest and stores the longest and can be used for a variety of things. There are also water purifier systems for sale in camping stores such as Gander Mountain, etc. for about 49.99. maybe cheaper at Academy or Wal-mart.
web site:
lds.about/com/od/prepardness/foodstorage/Food-Storage-and-Emergency
or google food storage calculator.
Also, from living on the Texas Coast/hurricane season always meant 10 supply of stuff. Don't forget batteries, paper goods, wet wipes, medicine and a first aide supply.
We've had this together for quite sometime and whenever we leave on a trip, I think that is when something will happen and all our supplies are at home. But then the Holy Spirit quickly reminds me that God has not given us a spirit of fear. Do all that God gives you the means to do and remember The Victor really does have your back........your front and hopefully your whole heart.
Love the Lord with all your heart
Buy in bulk(BIB) don't forget your neighbors what a tremendous time of witnessing that will be:) A good time to use up all that rice:)
Fighting the Good Fight,
Jenny
GT,
Well at least I know I'm in good Tin-Foil hat company.
You all know what I think are in these UFO's- Modern Day Nephilim.
If you read the book of Enoch the evil spirits (hauntings & many appariations) on this earth include the spirits of the Nephilim of the Bible days. The actual fallen angels who impregnated human women are chained up @ a certain place in Hell.
According to the Book of Enoch these fallen angels were here on earth sitting down w/their hands over their faces. They petitioned Enoch to ask God if He would have mercy on them & forgive their transgressions. Enoch went to God in heaven (via ? dream or transported somehow) & He said- NO WAY! What they did was an abomination. (My paraphrase) They are condemned & will have their final sentence on the Day of Judgment.
You're right. People who follow the actual sightings & abductions say it's greatly increasing in frequency.
We can only speculate what all the fearful sights, wonders,& supernatural events will take place to deceive the world.
I think it's all around us but at this time God is holding it in check. Satan & his cohorts will only be able to go hog wild on God's time clock. (I wonder what those frogs are which come out of the abyss?)
The cattle mutilations all have special "signatures" left on them. One is a special "mark" around the neck area-could be somewhat vampirish. They are also left bloodless. (Genitals or uterus removed-also tongues cut out.)
The abductees often also have a special "mark" on them as well. Most of them experiencing some type of "operation" & some of the male humans having been sexually aroused for their purposes of fooling around w/human DNA.
This was some good footage but the skeptics will probably think it's a giant space jellyfish w/o tentacles or something.
Space Shuttle Columbia On Sunday, February 25, 1996, the Space Shuttle Columbia deployed an experimental tether into orbit. The experiment was called the Tethered Satellite System (TSS- 1R) and it's purpose of this was to attempt to generate electricity by utilizing Earth's magnetic field.
What really made "The Tether Incident" famous was the appearance of many unidentified flying objects (UFOs) clearly visible in the NASA footage.
Take up your Cross
Good article Mac.
GT, Glenn is still researching about the FEMA camps. He doesn't believe that they're going to be used to round people up, but he's not going to say so definitively until he can get some answers about them. He'll put it on his show when he has something one way or another.
Jenny, thanks for the link to the LDS site. I spent another couple of hours at the store today, buying both for the 30-day project and for the local food pantry. Frankly, it's gotten so that I spent a good part of the evening checking out pressure canners, to see what would be involved in canning meat, as well as vegetables. I DID decide to buy a dehydrator tray so I can make beef jerky. The only thing about jerky is that unless you put it in a vacuum-sealed bag with an oxygen-absorber, the jerky only lasts about a week. A fair substitute is putting it in a glass jar with an air-tight lid. I've found that after you've emptied out spaghetti sauce jars and salsa jars, you can get an air-tight seal by folding over a piece of Saran Wrap so it's a little bigger than the jar mouth. Then, use a piece of foil to hold down the plastic wrap and screw the lid on. That should be air-tight enough to store the jerky.
As for water, since it's just going to be me and possibly one other person, I'm just going to stock up on PUR filters.
<><
Well, I am just not so sure about the UFO's and/or Nephs. It all sounds pretty crazy to me, but who knows, I guess time will tell.
I am interested in finding out more about stocking up on food.
We do have a decent amount of pasta and olive oil, some dried beans...canned soups and tomatoes seem to go fast.
What I can't understand though is all the focus on gay marriage, thats brewing in vt again
. Now I am not one of these Christians who are hate filled toward gay people as most of you already know.
I'm a hate the sin, love the sinner type.
Just seems to me there are a lot more importnat things to focus on.
We already have civil unions.
Then in todays paper was a letter to the editor written by a female gay minister promoting gay marriage.
I just hope He comes again soon. I just don't know how much more this world can handle.
I feel sorry for the kids growing up in this environment with all thats on tv, movies, not to mention commercials.
I feel like I am a stranger in a strange land.
I will check out these links re: stocking up on food. thanks.
The Bat;
"Where do I get one of them hats?"
Bat, you cannot purchase one at a store that I know of. One must hand make the hat out of regulation grade tinfoil and it must be hand-shaped to the individuals actual belief in UFO's. LOL
Maranatha!
Yes good article mac.
I hope and pray that the Billy Graham's will speak up loudly so that all will hear the true gospel message.
There are so many great preachers and teachers out there....but it does not seem to me that the average person has heard them.
"But then the Holy Spirit quickly reminds me that God has not given us a spirit of fear."
Thanks, Jenny, I needed to hear that!
Jim C,;
Thanks for the reply about Glenn Beck, I thought I had missed any further "news" about the camps. I haven't been wearing my tinfoil hat all that much lately. LOL
Lisa;
I do believe that some of the people who write on the net are going overboard on the UFO and occult stuff. They certainly are letting their human imaginations run away with their thinking and any good Biblical sense. It is one thing to be aware and informed and another thing for it to be taken to the "outer limits" of human imagination to gain an audience. I believe there is far to much of the latter going on with some of these web sites. That being said, I am drawn to the fact that a lot of the "abductions" have a demonic feel to them and that is the connection I see in it to the endtime theme.
It is like any teaching that relies on a few misinterpreted passages of the Bible to build a case for some false teaching. These teachers take a "possibility of meaning" from scripture and build a whole teaching from them!
Also, the book of Enoch is not a good place to go to get sound Biblical ideas from. As you know, it was not written by Enoch and was rejected because of its non-Biblical theology. I have read it in the past and to me it does have a "kabala" leaning to it!
Jib;
You are right in your assement of those "cover up" theories being around since the 60's. I wrote about that to point out how the secular world looks at these things. That is a good gage to see how this disception is progressing and how it could play a role in eschatology. I do however, see an increase in focus on these things by the secularists and even some in the churches. This in itself may be a way to lure people away from the central issues. The idea that these sightings ect. are increasing at this time as the secularists themselves are saying should be something to be aware of.
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on the issue and I am not trying to be critical of anyones views, just trying to bring some of it into perspective.
Maranatha!
Something to keep in mind, is that the Bible says; the coming of the Son of man shall be as the days of Noah. (Matt. 24:37, Luke 17: 26)
We know the DNA was corrupted. And not to offend anyone, but I also believe there were Nephilim present. (look in Dakes Bible, for Bible references, and they are plentiful) So, maybe I should go today, and stock up on the extra thick tin foil, for my tin foil hats? LOL! Count me in, with the tin foil hat club, at any rate :)
Anyhow, I actually popped in, On Line, to give you all a really good website to study Bible prophecy. If anyone enjoys Manna-Fest, Perry Stone, you're gonna like Bill Cloud's website and Ministry. (Shoreshim) Bill Cloud used to be part of Perry Stone's research team, and still does some research for him. Both ministries are located in Clevleand, TN. And while Bill Cloud's ministry has been mentioned before, (Grany has also mentioned it) I received his magazine in yesterday's mail, and it is, On Line, too. It's excellent!
www.billcloud.org
Have a wonderful weekend! And keep smiling!
Top 10 lasagna recipes
we tried the crockpot one I think or the slow cooker one-which ever used the hamburger. we do recommend leaving out the salt. we also recommend using the lesser time-6 hours as the cheese starts burning otherwise.
TO THE TIN FOIL HAT CLUBERS! Ahh, now you are forming a club so how about dividing it into categories. I have to agree with Marge about the Neph's being here on earth at the beginning and I truly do believe that they will be the ones unleased on the world after the AC comes on the scene Big Time. Remember the pits they are chained in now will be opened and they will get their time to torment mankind.
Now, as to the UFO's, nope! Too much pizza and beer!
Now, there is a category that I feel I truly belong to and that is the end time group. A growing number of bible scholars believe that there will not be salvation for those people who put off accepting Jesus as Son of God and son of Man a little too long. I believe Salvation will still be very possible and even though they will go through the Tribulation, they will be martyred for their belief. The Holy Spirit will still be here but the Church as we know it will be gone. TIN HAT Please!
You see, it is all in a matter of what is important to each person and not so much a thing as following the crowd. I also take literally what the Word of God states whether it makes sense to me or not. As time goes on, each mystery of scriptures seem to get a fresh light and things happening in the world take on new meaning.
How many of us understand the vision of Daniel of the wheels within the wheel? Not me but I am of the persuasion that the day is coming that I will understand it because the Holy Spirit will reveal it to all of us. Not a private revelation but an event will happen to illuminate the whole thing. TIN HAT PLEASE!
So, as you can see, I don't have enough imagination for all of the sci-fiction realm, just the ones that perk my interest. Just the same as the difference between the likes and dislikes (disinterest is a better word) that women and men have regarding pastimes. Sports VS theater; Opera VS country music; NASCAR VS Baseball; Cooking at home VS camping out; and the list goes on. I love to paint, sew, cook and read. My list then gets broken down into categories of each group.
So, then it becomes obvious that Tin Hats aren't required as each one of us is an individual with distinct tastes and interest. Pure and simple. We all fit together like a wheel within a wheel and that is how it was supposed to be. Praise God he didn't put one or two patterns in play to make humanity. How boring that would be.
I like variety and it is the spice of life.
Grany
Daniel had no vision of a wheel in the middle of a wheel. See Ezekiel, chapter 10.
Anonymous, right on! I have Daniel on the mind today as a precious friend has sent me a DVD on Daniel's Timeline and it is really interesting. To top it off, as I was typing my comment here, DH tells me that Daniel is on the phone with a message for me. Now that can blow anyone's mind.
Thanks for the correction and it helps me get back in the here and now.
"Eze 1:16 The appearance of the wheels and their construction was like gleaming jasper, and all four wheels looked alike. Their structure was like a wheel within a wheel."
By the way, the NET Bible site is really a great place for all of us oldie ones with eye problems. The print can be enlarged greatly and I can once again read the footnotes. Besides which, it will still be here after we are all long gone if the world retains the Internet as it is now.
Thanks again Anonymous.
Grany
OK now...as far as this neph stuff goes....I should know this already and could look it all up again...but to refresh my memory...isn't the belief in nephs role in the end times mostly due to the "as in the days of Noah" verse?
(I've been taught and thought that the 'as in the days of Noah' more had to do with people eating and drinking and marrying, etc, without realizing the judgment that was about to happen around them.)
I'm sure I can make one of these:
On the Effectiveness of Aluminium Foil Helmets:An Empirical Study
Bat;
I am disappointed. They didn't test my kind of tinfoil hat. My version comes to an abrupt point at the top which makes it virtually impossible for any signal to get into the brain do primarily to the sharp point on top (the signals just roll off of the top to the ground).
Donna,
Yes, that was one of the main things going on in "in the Days of Noah"-the Nephilim. The problem is that the fallen angels came back again even after the flood & bred w/human females again. (I guess they are a determined lot!) In the Bible it says that they produced a race of “Giants.” It tells you all of the "tribes" of these Giants (post-flood I believe) & even the size of a Giant's bed. That's why they were so scared to fight & conquer the promised land & said "we are the size of grass hoppers to them!"
Now-a-days there are not reports of actual "fallen angels" coming down & directly physically "doing it" like in ancient times. It's that DNA is taken from humans to make another crop. Someone who has catalogued these modern day Nephilim said there are 40+ different types. I’ve only known about a handful but they are various in appearance and not just “Giants” like in the Biblical description.
If you Google "Ancient UFO Paintings" you will see that there are cave paintings, idol statues, & even nice (oil or ?) paintings from the 1500's and beyond depicting saucer shaped vehicles in the sky & also pictures of what we consider to be Alien grays, Reptilian types(from Iraq), & others. These things are not just found in a specific geographical area but have been found world wide.
The Elongated head shapes from the Egyptian era are also interesting. Many of these artifacts are in museums.
To me it provides a strong indication that the Biblical account is true & that they have been among civilizations throughout world history. If true-it would sure explain how the ancient civilizations like the Mayans, Druids, & others obtained their knowledge.
Now J.R. Church takes it a step further & he seems to think that in Ezekiel's account of being transported into heaven-the lighted wheel description sounds like it could be describing a modern saucer shaped inter-dimensional vehicle.(Different account than the "fiery chariot.)In the Book of Enoch it describes a cloud/fog & pillar of light which takes Ezekiel into a "house" which describes, lights, fire, lightening...
Honestly, that part really freaks me out. I envision the catching up to be more of a Star Trek dematerialize & change your body type thing. Not a bunch of UFO's beaming Christians up into the clouds.
(Ironic that is exactly what the seers & channelers say will happen to those people who don't have the right vibrational frequency as they are the one's creating havoc & ruining "Mother Nature.")
Donna:
I too heard that teaching until a few years back when the whole Neph thing began or resurfaced again (I don't know which). It is now being accepted more widely and is being identified with the verses about "the days of Noah". I believe that the argument for the Neph is compelling with the exception of angels pro-creating with women. It was common teaching that angels could not do that. The outcome of the Neph teaching adds an additional reason as to why the first creation was destroyed (even though mans sins are reason enough).
Now if we find that the corruption of man came from some other method of genetic manipulation, as is being proposed by some now. Then the theory may become more plausible (even though the Bible states otherwise concerning the sons of god or angels). Once again it's one of those "whether it makes sense to me or not" things that Grany mentioned.
There I go again, rambling on...
Just one of those days...
Maranatha!
Lisa;
I didn't see your post on the neph until I had posted mine. WOW, tinfoil hat, tinfoil hat, where's my tinfoil hat!!! I better go hide in the closet now!! LOL
Maranatha!
GT,
I was just looking into what this Kabala teaching was & kind of glad I did because one of the books I have which a Jewish man wrote references the "Zohar" which is one of their books. In it he attributes some fulfilled prophecies in our day (6 day war-& some others) & gives God the glory-but what I didn't know was that the books the Kabala people use were written by "Automatic" writing. That means a spirit (evil) has to possess the human body to do the writing. CREEPY!!
The Book of Enoch-I have & read it but nothing really stood out which would be Anti-Biblical. I would hope the Holy Spirit would give a warning signal if it was bad. Prophecy in the News is doing a monthly study on it right now so that's why it's fresh in my mind.
The entire UFO topic has always attracted the fringe/occult of society & probably the main reason why most people just laugh it off.
There is no doubt it demonic in nature-you've even got the "Nation of Islam" embracing that a Black Jesus is going to appear in one @ his 2nd Coming.
Now, I'm taking my Tin-Foil off & changing hats. There are too many electric impulses going on & I'm afraid it may produce a short circuit.
STARBUCKS in the ME Check this out-I find it Hysterical. If anything the woman's picture on the Starbuck's cup is some pagan goddess.
Oh, come on GT!
Go ahead and search what your ancestors painted in caves & on canvasses! It sure looks like the real deal to me (:
After you see the 1st ME Starbuck video-then here is what logo most likely representsMulesine
Lisa;
Kabala is gnostic in nature, like the gnostic heresies that came about in the first centuries after Christianity. All of them have a form of secret knowledge (occult) that is known only by the members. Gnostic cults have been in existence from the beginning. They are usually some perversion of God's truth, like the original meaning of the star formations in the night sky (Zodiak). They are now perverted to point to pagan god's instead of the one true God. So we know where all this secret knowlege comes from.
Concerning the UFO thing in history. I followed the whole "chariots of the gods" thing when it come out years ago and am still not totally convinced with the cave paintings ect. They are things we can't decipher but that does not mean they are depicting neph's or UFO's. It seems too convenient a fit to how people imagine it to be.
Maranatha!
GT,
I never saw that documentry so can't comment. My degree is based in Art/Art History so I may put more emphasis in what I see dipicted in visual communication.
If it's an authentic piece of art and clearly shows a flying disk/disks or a big headed large slant eyed being I have the tendency to take it literally.
Did anyone see this on Joel's Trumpet? From Leftist to Islamist to Capitve
"Copeland is responsible for spreading many of the Faith movement's unbiblical teachings. He distorts the biblical concepts of faith and covenant. He reduces God to the image of man while elevating man to the status of God. He lowers Jesus to being a product of positive confession who took on a satanic nature at the cross. And he promotes the occult practice of creative visualization."
"Copeland's errors are largely due to his negative stance on reasoning, his poor handling of the Bible, his aversion toward theology, and his bias against tradition.
Hank Hanegraaff and Erwin M. de Castro, "What's Wrong with the Faith Movement? Part Two: The Teachings of Kenneth Copeland." Christian Research Journal, Spring 1993, page 16"
More articles to ponder:
How to Receive the Holy Spirit - According to Gloria Copeland Let Us Reason Ministries points out the unbiblical nature of her doctrine.
Kenneth Copeland: 'God is both male and female' by Joseph Chambers
Kenneth Copeland's land of Biblical Revelations Thorough article by Let Us Reason Ministries
What's wrong with the Faith Movement? Part Two : The Teachings of Kenneth Copeland by by Hank Hanegraaff and Erwin M. de Castro. See also Part One: E. W. Kenyon and the Twelve Apostles of Another Gospel
Ye Are Gods? Orthodox and Heretical Views on the Deification of Man Good overview, that also addresses Copeland's teachings on the subject.
The above was taken from The Apologetics Index website:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/c53.html
Quotes from Copeland:
Quotes -
"God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself...He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even."
"Following the Faith of Abraham," tape 01-3001, n.d.
"You don't have a god in you, you are one."
"The Force of Love," tape 02-0028, 1987
Be Bereans, don't be fooled by false and blasphemous teaching.
LW, Shalom! You posted a comment in the last blog March 17 at 1:43 PM about "Kings", and I don't think anyone replied to you.
I watched the premiere and I enjoyed it. I have to agree with your statement, To me, it seems like someone took the basic plot line of the Biblical story and imposed modern greed, avarice and evil on those people, giving the impression that they were all like that. It seems to destroy any integrity that those men had, and it remains to be seen how they will dishonor David. I think if they were NOT going to do that (impose modern greed, etc.) it wouldn't ring true to the audience.
As for Saul appearing more evil in the series, well, I kinda lost interest in Saul when I read about how he kept trying to kill David because he was jealous of David's popularity. I am disappointed that they're making Jonathan into an enemy of David, because to me that friendship with David and Jonathan's eventual fall is one of the tragedies of the story.
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Anonymous, mind giving us a name so we know what to call you? Are you telling us these things about Copeland for any particular reason? Maybe we were discussing him and I've just forgotten.
I just spotted a different interpretation of the Nephilim at
this site
It says among other things that:
The Nephilim were an antediluvian race (pre-flood) race which are referred to in the Bible as giants. They were reportedly the children born from the "daughters of men'', and the "Sons of God''. It is most important to note that they are mentioned almost simultaneous to God's statement that He would destroy the earth by flood, and it seems from this association that their affect upon mankind was one of the primary justifications that brought the destruction.
The Sons of God
Nobody knows what the ''Sons of God'' were, but the most obvious interpretation is that the Nephilim were a hybrid race between two distinct but sexually compatible beings. Many believe the ''Sons of God'' were fallen angels who corrupted mankind. The ''Sons of God''' are clearly distinguished from the daughters of men. This suggests the ''Sons of God'' were either not born on earth or simply righteous men as opposed to earthly. We can only speculate, but as angels are not biological organisms, they are not likely to be reproductively compatible with humans.
Another logical interpretation for the ''Sons of God'' is they were other created men. It is largely assumed that Adam and Eve were the only humans created in the beginning, but the Bible does not describe every person on earth, nor even everyone that was important to God. Only key individuals or situations are included within the text, and we can not say with certainty that God only created one pair of humans....
And Also Afterward
In Genesis 6:4 it is said the Nephilim were on the Earth in those days - and also afterward. This seems to clearly imply that the Nephilim were also on the Earth after the flood of Noah. Although the Nephilim are only mentioned one other time in scripture after Genesis 6, during a false report brought back to Moses by the explorers of Canaan, this reference would suggest that the Israelites were familiar with the Nephilim.
Anonymous, read your assassination attempt of Kenneth Copeland and Gloria Copeland and all I can feel for you is deep sorrow. It really speaks very low of anyone to slander any person who is in God's service, whether you believe what they say or not. Then you quoted Hank Hanegraff and as far as I am concerned, you really stepped into it big time. If I don't agree with you that does not give me the right or an excuse to attack your belief system. You are welcome to your opinions, I have heard them before and didn't agree at that time either. But one thing I know for sure, without dispute, Hank was caught, proved to be altering tapes of what he purported to be KCopeland when in actuality, he had spliced different tapes into one to try to destroy another man.
Paul warned that the tongue was deceitful above all things and it was one of the most difficult things to win control over it. Paul didn't know about the fingers typing deceitful things but the wickedness of man will always find a way to destroy someone else.
I don't accept your remarks no matter who or what you sign yourself in as. If you want to jump to conclusions about what is being taught, then go right ahead because you are the one doing the jumping and the final judgment is still just ahead. But you will have to forgive me for not taking part in your party or being affected by what slanderous things you have entered here. If Kenneth Copeland is a tare, God's Appointed Angels will remove him; it isn't your place to elevate yourself and Hank to that position.
Grany
P.S. TO ANONYMOUS:
Goyim still means "non believer" no matter what web site it is posted on. It also refers to the World as a whole that is outside of the Jewish faith.
1835–45; < Yiddish < Heb goi nation, non-Jew, Jew ignorant of the Jewish religion
1. A Hebrew word used in the Jewish Scriptures (a.k.a. the Old Testament). The word literally means "nations," and is always used within these scriptures to refer to the nations of the world. Significantly, within the Old Testament, Judah (the Jewish nation) itself is called a "goy."
2. In the Old Testament, the Jews were called to be a nation separate from the other nations, which were all Pagan. And so, colloquially, all non-Jewish nations came to be called "goyim" as in "the nations" from which the God of the Old Testament had called upon the Jews to separate themselves.
3. A word used by some Jews to refer to Gentiles (non-Jews). The word can have derogatory connotations, such as the word "black" when used to refer to persons of African descent. It can be neutral or negative depending on the context and the intent of the speaker.
Anonymos,
You think highly of Hank?
This web site pretty well says it all
Personally, I am not familiar with the Copelands.
Hank H....I am pretty sure he is the BIble Answer Man?
I had no clue there were all of those allegations made against him....but have heard Jan Markell's frustrations re: him and his teaching.
some mice?
DONNA, impersonators but in reality they are the "little Foxes" of this passage in Song 2:14, 15
14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock,in the secret places of the stairs,let me see thy countenance,let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely. 15 Take us the foxes,the little foxes,that spoil the vines:for our vines have tender grapes.
This text is Christ speaking to his bride, the Church. I am only going to look at v. 15, the little foxes.
At the time this was written, vineyards had protective walls around them. The purpose of the walls was to keep out the animals that would harm the grapes. Foxes is a generic term, and includes jackals. These animals would not eat the flowers nor the vines, but only the fruit, the grapes. If the vineyard was not closely watched as the fruit came on, these animals would destroy the fruit of the vine.
The spiritual truth in this verse is quite obvious:
Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another."
The whole thing is discourage anyone who will hear and take part in their chagrin to the place that they are unable to trust God's Word or His ministers. It is the first step in forming a personal following and eventually a Regelious Cult. The only thing you can judge them on is their "Fruit that Glorifies God".
I could tell you I am Martha Washington and the great, great, great, great granddaughter of Pres. Washington and you would only have one way to disprove it. History! What I say isn't the measure of me, it is what I am 24/7/12 months every day of my life. In private and out in public no matter who is watching or listening.
Grany
I heard David Jeremiah say today that the only people of those left behind after the rapture (he's pre-trib) who will be given the opportunity to repent and be saved are those who had never before heard the gospel. All others who had already heard it and rejected it will be given over to the strong delusion and will not be given a second chance after the rapture. He said nothing about Jews that I heard, and I didn't hear the whole program.
Thoughts, anyone? Are more people thinking this way or am I just now learning about it?
I had no idea about Hank Hannegraf, Grany. I've only heard him two or three times for a few minutes and I think he was talking about Mormons. Or, wait a minute, maybe he was the one talking about Jesus being Jerusalem in eschatology.
ANNE I used to listen to Hank a long time ago but then he became more interested in correcting everyone else in the ministry and it really turned me off. I didn't tune him in to hear gossip and I soon learned there were far more educated men and anointed ones at that to listen to. Just a matter of selection as far as I am concerned. Hubby doesn't like to listen to my type of music (classical and worship) but he loves to listen to Willy Nelson and The Sons of The Pioneers. OK, I am fine with that but I still listen to my choices when given the chance.
I have never heard the teaching on the singular people who can be saved after the rapture but I know David Jeremiah is pretty well grounded in the Word. Did he explain where he finds that in scripture? I am going to check to see if he goes into any detail on it later. Most of his teaching/sermons can be accessed on the net somewhere, I am sure. I will just check it out and see. Interesting take on it though. However, I would hate to think that I would have only one chance of salvation prior to my conversion in 1964. I sat under some of the most outstanding preachers of the 40's, 50's, 60's before I was convicted and lead to the Lord. Just think, that was all of the years of my childhood from the age of 6 on into adult womanhood. Oh, God was really patient with me now that I look back on it.
I do know that during the years we were doing the video recording of the complete church services where I was a member, we were greatly impressed to transfer them to a permanent type of recording material and off of the VHS tapes they were on. We put over 3000 of them in a vault that is specially created for long term storage, on DVDs and cataloged them for future reference. We went so far as to record a Communion Service, up close and focused on the elements and purpose of everything being done. None of our services were omitted at the time and when it came time for a permanent recording, we selected a sequential bible study/topic program. It was one of the greatest experiences I have ever had. I so hope they will be used by those who remain and are instrumental in bringing the lost and fearful into the glory of God.
Grany
Hi Anne. I've heard the same thing elsewhere but I disagree. If there is a pretrib rapture, I think "thousands" of people who hadn't made a decision for Christ will do so. There are many who are sitting on the fence now - an event like the rapture might sway them. As for the "delusion" I think forms of it are already here.
New post is up.
Grany, I think Hank should get out of the finger-pointing business. That article you linked points out just one of many fiascos associated with Hanegraaff. His attitude to Israel also is a concern.
IN COPELAND'S OWN WORDS - (Listen to the tapes and read it in his own publications) THEN JUDGE FOR YOURSELF.
Copeland is perhaps the best known proponent of the charismatic's "little gods" teaching (see below). He says Jesus told him:
"Don't be disturbed when people accuse you of thinking you are God ... They crucified Me for claiming I was God. I didn't claim that I was God; I just claimed that I walked with Him and that He was in Me. Hallelujah! That's what you're doing ..." ("Take Time to Pray," Believer's Voice of Victory, 2/87, p. 9).
Copeland thus denies the uniqueness of Christ, saying that Christ was not God, only that He walked closely with God. And as Copeland says, so does he! Copeland, thereby, places himself on the same level as Jesus Christ, willing to blur the distinction between the will of God and the will of Copeland. Copeland seems to think that he and Jesus have about the same authority for the believer, and sounds like New Ager Shirley MacClaine when he says:
"You're all God. You don't have a God living in you; you are one! ... When I read in the Bible where God tells Moses, 'I AM,' I say, 'Yah, I am too!'" ("The Force of Love," Tape BBC-56).
Copeland teaches that Adam was "created in the god class"; i.e., he was a reproduction of God:
"He was not subordinate to God ... [but] was walking as a god with the authority of a god. ... What he said went. What he did, counted. [And when he] bowed his knee to Satan and put Satan up above him, then there wasn't anything God could do about it, because a god had placed [Satan] there" ("The Force of Love," tape #02-0028).
Copeland teaches, as do all the Word-Faith teachers, that "Jesus Died Spiritually" (JDS). What makes the Word-Faith teachers' version of JDS, heresy (if not blasphemy), is their teaching that our redemption comes not from Christ's death upon the cross, but from His being tortured by Satan in hell for three days and nights! Copeland has, thus, embraced a heresy known as the "Ransom theory of the atonement." It is the view that Christ's death was a ransom paid to Satan to settle the legal claim the devil had on the human race because of Adam's sin. But that view contradicts the clear Biblical teaching that Christ's death was a sacrifice offered to God, not to Satan (Eph. 5:2) Copeland, for example, says:
"He allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell as if He were the most wicked sinner who ever lived ... Every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him ... [They] tortured Him beyond anything that anybody has ever conceived ... In a thunder of spiritual force, the voice of God spoke to the death-whipped, broken, punished spirit of Jesus ... [in] the pit of destruction, and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life ... He was literally being reborn before the devil's very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles ... Jesus Christ dragged Satan up and down the halls of hell ... Jesus ... was raised up a born-again man ... The day I realized that a born-again man had defeated Satan, hell, and death, I got so excited ... !" ("The Price of it All," Believer’s Voice of Victory, September 1991, p. 4.
It is both fanciful nonsense and heretical to teach that our redemption comes through Satan torturing Jesus in hell. That would make Satan our co-redeemer. If he didn't torture Jesus enough, we wouldn't be saved -- and if he did, do we thank Satan? Incredible! Moreover, Satan isn't even the proprietor of hell. He hasn't even been there yet. Nor will Satan torture the damned but will himself be tortured with "everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41) when death and hell have been "cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:14).
Before He died, Jesus cried in triumph, "It is finished" (Jn. 19:30), indicating that our redemption has been accomplished on the Cross. Christ told the thief on the cross who believed in Him, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Lk. 23:43), not in hell! He said, "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit" (Lk. 23:46). Yet Hagin, Copeland, et al., say He ended up, instead, in the hands of Satan in the depths of hell! What blasphemy!
Other Quotes Illustrating Kenneth Copeland’s Heretical Teachings
That Adam was God manifest in the flesh.
“God’s reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself, and in the Garden of Eden He did just that. He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even. ... Adam is as much like God as you could get, just the same as Jesus. ... Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh.” (Following the Faith of Abraham I, 1989 audiotape, #01-3001, side 1)
God lives on a mother planet
“Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet.” (Spirit, Soul and Body I, 1985 audiotape #01-0601, side 1)
“You don’t think earth was first, do you? Huh? Well, you don’t think that God made man in His image, and then made earth in some other image? There is not anything under this whole sun that’s new. Are you hearing what I’m saying? This is all a copy. It’s a copy of home. It’s a copy of the Mother Planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like His and put us on it.” (Following the Faith of Abraham I, 1989 audiotape, #01-3001, side 1)
And more quotes:
"God is “a being that is very uncanny the way He’s very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6’-2”, 6’-3”, that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of a couple of hundred pounds, little better, [and] has a [hand] span of nine inches across.” (Spirit, Soul and Body I, 1985, audiotape #01-0601, side 1)
“[Adam] was the copy, looked just like [God]. If you stood Adam upside God, they look just exactly alike. If you stood Jesus and Adam side-by-side, they would look and sound exactly alike.”(Authority of the Believer IV, 1987, audiotape #01-0304, side 1)
God has no right to the earth at all; He needs an invitation.
“God had no avenue of lasting faith or moving in the earth. He had to have covenant with somebody. ... He had to be invited in, in other words, or He couldn’t come. God is on the outside looking in. In order to have any say so in the earth, He’s going to have to be in agreement with a man here.” (God’s Covenants With Man II, 1985, audiotape #01-4404, side 1)
Ownership of the earth is Satan’s.
“God’s on the outside looking in. He doesn’t have any legal entree into the earth. The thing don’t belong to Him. You see how sassy the Devil was in the presence of God in the book of Job? God said, ‘Where have you been?’ Wasn’t any of God’s business. He [Satan] didn’t even have to answer if he didn’t want to ... God didn’t argue with him a bit! You see, this is the position that God’s been in … Might say, ‘Well, if God’s running things He’s doing a lousy job of it.’ He hadn’t been running ’em, except when He’s just got, you know, a little bit of a chance.” (Image of God in You III, 1989, audiotape #01-1403, side 1)
“Here’s where we’re gonna depart from ordinary church: Now, you see, God is injecting His Word into the earth to produce this Jesus—these faith-filled words that framed the image that’s in Him … He can’t just walk onto the earth and say, ‘Let it be!’ because He doesn’t have the right. He had to sneak it in here around the god of this world that was blockin’ every way that he possibly could.” (The Image of God in You III, 1989, audiotape #01-1403, side 2)
“The Bible says that God gave this earth to the sons of men … and when [Adam] turned and gave that dominion to Satan, look where it left God. If left Him on the outside looking in … He had no legal right to do anything about it, did He? … He had injected Himself illegally into the earth—what Satan had intended for Him to do was to fall for it—pull off an illegal act and turn the light off in God, and subordinate God to himself … He intended to get God into such a trap that He couldn’t get out.” (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017)
“Adam committed high treason; and at that point, all the dominion and authority God had given to him was handed over to Satan. Suddenly, God was on the outside looking in … After Adam’s fall, God found Himself in a peculiar position …God needed an avenue back into the earth …God laid out His proposition and Abram accepted it. It gave God access to the earth and gave man access to God ... Technically, if God ever broke the Covenant, He would have to destroy Himself.” (Our Covenant with God, 1987, pp. 8-11)
“The Spirit of God spoke to me and He said, ‘Son, realize this. Now follow me in this and don’t let your tradition trip you up.’ He said, ‘Think this way—a twice-born man whipped Satan in his own domain.’ And I threw my Bible down … like that. I said, ‘What?’ He said, ‘A born-again man defeated Satan, the firstborn of many brethren defeated him.’ He said, ‘You are the very image, the very copy of that one.’ I said, ‘Well now you don’t mean, you couldn’t dare mean, that I could have done the same thing?’ He said, ‘Oh yeah, if you’d had the knowledge of the Word of God that He did, you could’ve done the same thing, ‘cause you’re a reborn man too.” (Substitution and Identification, 1989, tape #00-0202, side 2)
Atonement Atrocities. Copeland says that Jesus became a sign of Satan when He was hanging on the cross:
“The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own spirit. And at the moment that He did so, He cried, ‘My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken Me?’ You don’t know what happened at the cross. Why do you think Moses, upon instruction of God, raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That used to bug me. I said, ‘Why in the world would you want to put a snake up there—the sign of Satan? Why didn’t you put a lamb on that pole?’ And the Lord said, ‘Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross.’ He said, ‘I accepted, in My own spirit, spiritual death; and the light was turned off.’” (What Happened from the Cross to the Throne, 1990, audiotape #02-0017, side 2)
“When Jesus cried, ‘It is finished!’ He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne. … Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption.” (“Jesus—Our Lord of Glory,” Believer’s Voice of Victory, April 1982, p. 3)
I have family members who are ministers in this sect. I have listened to this garbage for over 15 years. When they send me tapes, I now just toss them in the garbage. I will continue to pray for them until we are raptured out of here.
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