Pentecost gave me the key to the Scriptures. It has kept my feet in all the slippery places of all sorts of criticism. The things that are stumbling blocks to so many are stepping stones to me. The inexplicable becomes plain when we recognize the presence and law of the Spirit. It balances scholarship, and gives discernment beyond all human learning. Indeed, learning without the Holy Spirit blinds men to the realities of divine truth. The man who thinks he can know the Word of God by mere intellectual study is greatly deceived. Spiritual truth is spiritually discerned.
- Samuel Chadwick -
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145 comments:
first
ahhh - anonymous' comment, on the last post, derailed me from being first!
laundry made me third!
Alesia, I was so excited for Harold I couldn't tell who had authored the post.
We slept a little late this morning and I haven't had my zip yet. So, am making it now and hope it is strong enough to open the eyes wide and the octane needed for a smooth engine today.
Did anything important happen last night while we slept? Gotta find my way around the kitchen before I attempt any great and wonderful feats today.
Grany
not me this time for post although it is excellent. I actually kept the last good idea I had and put it on my blog :-)
Donna
on his website Frucht does say he thinks that the rapture is the feast of trumpets but it strikes me that in his book Footsteps he says something different. It is just sitting there dancing around that a Jewish Christian that I have read thinks it could be but then makes a strong case it might not be. I'll have to see if I can find it.
Grany
glad to see your migraine is gone. I had read about it and then forgot to post that I also said a prayer for you as well. I find that I spend much more frequent time in prayer these days-throughout the day that I didn't before. I like your fish better than the monkey btw.
Jim C
LOVED your post about the top 10. so excellent and I might add true about the economy also. btw my "sheep" is a DOG thank you-she was very offended although I thought it very funny. she is half poodle and half golden-really most of the time she looks like a golden with a bad perm!
Harold,
Have you ever heard of Jonny Lang?
(I remember us talking about music before, long ago)
He's this awesome, awesome guitarist/blues singer. He started out playing blues at the age of 15! with some of the greats ie; BB King, etc. He's now only 26.
He became a born again Christian a few years ago - Hallelujah - and has put out a fantastic Christian cd - "Turn Around". I can't tell you how much his cd has helped me in the last month or so.
I keep meaning to put together a post on my blog about him, but haven't had time.
Anyway, if you've not heard of him, you should check him out.
I have two of his songs on my blog, under music videos. They aren't the bluesy type songs from the cd but still very good. The song "Only a Man" is soo beautiful.
"HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU, HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEAR _ _ _, HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU"!!!
I'll second that Alesia-a very happy birthday to someone
MR. HYDE, do you know someone who is getting older by the minute?
Alesia, I am running to listen to the music you referenced. I love his music.
Grany
Uncle Bob has asked for our help in finding a shadow/type in Judges 19-21. It's a disturbing story. So far he has an idea of what it represents (most of it makes sense) but it does not bode well for anyone who is not Jewish that remains after the rapture.
I'll explain later, but first, anyone have any thoughts on those chapters?
grany,
Thanks for the congrats on being first. I would like to thank all the people that made this possible..... :-)
anonymous,
Excellent posts! You have a very humble attitude which is very refreshing. I wish I reflected the humility that Christ commands us to have as well as you do.
You did a really good job of answering Donna's question about the 30 day gap.
However, I would like to add one small correction. You said:
“So, although I do not think that Purim is the answer, as that Holiday is only 2 days in the Bible, not 30 days.”
End Quote
Purim in that year 2012 is actually a triple Purim, so it actually occurs over 3 days instead of 2. This has to do with it being a leap year. This could correspond to the 3 ½ days that people celebrate the AC killing the two witnesses.
Here are a couple of good articles that give some details on the triple Purim:
When is Purim Observed?
No one knows the day..." Purim?
A Jewish friend of mine (a non-Christian) has mentioned to me a couple of different times that Purim is the one Jewish festival where even the most Orthodox Jews (the black hats) get falling down drunk out of their minds. This seems to totally fit with the warning that Isaiah gives in chapter 28 about the Jewish priests getting drunk and suffering judgment. My friend also said that it is the one Jewish festival that he thinks will still be celebrated after the Messiah comes (for the first time in his view). If you read Esther chapter 9 where it talks about Purim, it records that Mordecai sent out a decree to celebrate this feast every year and forever. It does not appear that it was a God sanctioned feast (as God is not even mentioned in the whole book of Esther).
As for the whole 30 day gap, it does help to reconcile how there could be the two different number of days listed in Daniel, 1260 days and 1290 days and still have events land on the appointed feast days.
Lisa,
I love your enthusiasm! Don’t let it be quenched by “wet blankets”. You keep an open mind and are always digging for the truth. You made some great points in you Sept. 18, 9:36 AM comment.
Alesia,
No, I haven’t heard of Jonny Lang before, but thanks for the tip. I will have to check him out.
Jib,
First off, I would like to say that I HATE arguing with anyone, especially fellow Christians. I try to avoid it as much as I can. It is counter productive and causes dissension.
However, I feel that I have to be brutally honest with you. You sometimes have some good points in some of your comments, but they are frequently so buried under your attitude and argumentativeness that I can’t see past them.
Atty very rarely posts at the cave or even comes by to read anything anymore because of you. He says that you “Suck all the energy out of him.” I couldn’t agree more.
Atty spends a huge amount of time combing the Internet looking for new prophecy information. He comes up with some great stuff, but unfortunately, he does not bother to post it at the cave anymore because he knows that you are going to have a bunch of negative things to say about it.
The only time that Atty’s discoveries end up at the cave now is when he sends them to me and I decide to post them at the cave. However, I think I am going to stop doing this. It is just not worth the aggravation.
I frequently go a week or two without even stopping by the cave because I know that you are going to post a bunch of argumentative stuff that is just going to aggravate me.
I come by the cave to learn from people, fellowship, and post things I have run across that I think are relevant to end times prophecy. I don’t come by to argue, but it seems I have to spend way too much time doing that lately. I do not understand people who like to argue and you seem to be one of these people in spades.
You told anonymous that you are the “resident questioner.” There is nothing wrong with being the resident questioner. However, you do not usually question things, you usually argue things and frequently get in people’s faces. There is a big difference. Any point you make, I usually have a counter point, but I usually don’t bother to state it because it just keeps the argument going. It is a huge waste of time. You usually get the last word because I have already gotten bored and moved onto something else.
So…I guess I have to decide whether I am going to just clicky click your comments from here on out, or if I am going to go elsewhere. It has gotten to that point.
I apologize to everyone else reading this. I don’t want to create division on this blog that Alesia and Mr. Hyde have graciously allowed us to use. I am just not sure what else to do at this point. Nothing was ever going to change if I didn’t say something.
God Bless,
Harold
I do not consider myself to have the gift of prophecy but I do on occasion "hear" a word/sentence which I believe to be from God. It is different from the normal prayer conversation I have daily with Him, though it is internal, not external.
So now I have heard one of these sentences and feel led to share it here. I have hesitated for days because I doubt myself. But, now I feel I just have to be obedient.
As you might remember, I have been expecting God's judgement on our country for some time, something catastrophic, I don't know what. I started praying maybe about 9 months ago that "it" would not happen in winter. About two weeks ago (I think) I was walking along, minding my own business when I "heard" God say "Winter is almost over". What?? The words were not repeated (they never are when this happens to me) but I understood suddenly, winter is almost over in the Southern Hemisphere. Oh. I had a sudden sinking feeling in my gut and have not been able to shake it since. I am praying like I never have before, with even more anguish for the lost people of this world and the trauma ahead.
Now on a different note entirely!
I went back to the previous post and caught up on the conversations posted after I went to bed. Then I read Anonymous' fair well (yeah, I know it is farewell but I won't accept it) and I was so disappointed that this precious person thinks they are too conservative for us. I don't think that person is aware of all of our TRUE colors and it bothered me. Of all things, people who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, sent to bring salvation and relationship to the whole world and should have basic structure beliefs. My belief has to line up with the Whole Word of God not just the parts that I like and are not subject to a pair of scissors cutting out the ones I don't like. Or believe.
This has really bothered me and I am praying about it. I have forever believed that if it was important for the Son of God who became the Son of Man, then it was just as important to me as a new being in Christ Jesus. If he told the Jewish people to do such and such, then it was what I wanted to do too. Just remember, when I was a child there was far more preaching on the 4 gospels than there was on the epistles. Maybe because there wasn't a real clear understanding of what exactly the rest of the new testament was trying to say but it was the radical preachers who tore into the epistles and especially the book of Acts. They were radical but were they preaching "thus saith the Word of God" in truth? I go back and read a lot of these sermons on the internet and it stirs my heart to overflowing, SOMETIMES! Then there is the tendency to decry the man and the message to the point of wanting to burn them at the stake.
Did extreme men bring about an extreme religious system or did they preach the truth and the ears were not open to it? Did they preach their message out of season and it was meant for such a time as this or should we throw it all out with the baby? How do we know for sure that what we believe as the word of God and its' meaning are the Holy Spirit's? What if we are only seeing in part and that through a clouded sight? Will we be able to see it clearly as God intended before it is too late?
All of these questions are going through me right now and I have to resolve them to the point of God's purpose. It seems a little late in life to have such doubts and questions trying to gain a foot hold in my whole being. Why doesn't the WHOLE BODY OF CHRIST HAVE THE SAME INTERPRETATION OF GOD'S WORD?
Now, I don't expect anyone to answer these questions for me. It is my struggle but I am going to do some very serious searching and praying for the answers. You see, I don't want to worship the Father in any other way but "in Spirit and in Truth".
So, if I seem a little distracted you will already know a little bit the reason for it, OK?
Love you all and seriously desire for you all of God's blessings,
Grany
Lori,
I just watched Prophecy in the News report is about the Sun Spots.
There was not one Sun Spot the entire month of August.
Grace - I forgot to mention that I will continue praying for Jennifer. God bless that baby & family.
Anne - WOW! Thanks for sharing.
Back to Jonny Lang...
My favorite song on the cd is "On my feet again"
I think you can listen to it here:
On My Feet Again
If that doesn't work, go to:
Rhapsody - Jonny Lang and you can listen to all the songs there from the cd.
Harold
I had wondered about that. I don't particularly mean to come across that way and if yours and atty's feelings got hurt sorry however I also think that both you and atty have a problem with things you find being challenged-neither of you like it at all nor do you seem to like debating it. I also remember some of yours and atty's responses to John Boatman being less than gracious when he challenged you on some of your information. Not everyone is going to embrace your information wholeheartedly and believe as you do. People should be skeptical, cautious and critically think about what they choose to believe and sift it through the lens of scripture and not jump on the band wagon of every new theory or thought that comes along. With the presentation of new ideas come debate-both on the positive and the negative and you will find both in the world and amongst Christians. One of the things that I have especially become aware of is the importance of what goes in your mind in all facets of your life and how important it is that it be accurate, glorify God and further his kingdom.
I shall try to tone down my attitude for you but you also have to be willing to defend why you think the information you are presenting is scriptural and do it well, with logic and precision and think it through. You also have to be willing to accept that not everyone is going to agree with what you present.
as far as Lisa goes-her passion is one of her best assets I just wish it were a little more focused so that one could tell what was really important.
oh, and thank you for having the courage to say what you felt instead of hiding it.
for those of you who are interested I did write to Dr Frucht to get his thoughts on a few things. my letter is as follows
"we are having another debate. While I find Mr Blitz's studies on the blood red moon fascinating and informative I don't know that I buy his theories. I still can not get my head around the fact that he thinks he knows the date of the rapture or even the second coming when the Bible is fairly explicit that not even Christ knows. I would love to hear your thoughts on Mr Blitz's theories.
as part of that, i am perhaps disturbed for a lack of a better word that many, including Blitz, seem to feel that gentile believers ought to be paying more attention to our faith's Jewish roots and studying our faith through a more Jewish cultural/context lens (more than likely very true)-it isn't the study I really find disturbing but their applications for lack of a better word that I find disturbing. I find learning about such things interesting and very informative and it helps me understand context and symbolism better but remain hesitant because it strikes me some how, with their applications at any rate, as being some sort of subtle covenant or replacement theology. I do know that some of the dominion now folks (and I have no idea if he is one of them) have adopted a quasi replacement theology approach by saying we are in grafts and therefore entitiled to the promises and covenants God made with Israel. I don't buy that either. I seem to recall that the early church had a significant problem between the Jewish believers and the gentiles regarding observance of feast days etc. i would appreciate knowing your thoughts on this movement of non Jews getting into the messianic movement and whether we as gentile believers really have any business with the Feasts of the Lord in any other context other than knowing about them and how Christ will be the ultimate fullfillment of all of them. "
his response-
"1) The little that I know of Mr. Blitz is from articles on the Internet. Concerning the Rapture, the Bible teaches that the Rapture can happen at any moment, and also teaches that no man will ever be able to set a date for it with any degree of accuracy.
The truth is that the Rapture does not have to come on any Jewish festival and, therefore, it is a violation of Scripture to set any kind of a date, even presenting it as a possibility. The Rapture will never be a datable event: it can happen at any time during any year between now and the start of the Tribulation.
2) Regarding the Messianic Movement- There is nothing wrong with Gentile believers becoming part of a Messianic Congregation, but they must take a few things into account before doing so.
First of all the Messianic Congregation should be teaching the Bible from a literal, exegetical basis. What that means is they should teach what the Bible says and not what they want it to say.
Secondly, it is important to understand the Bible from a Jewish perspective. The Old and New Testament was written by Jewish people with a Jewish mind set.
Just as with churches, the Messianic Movement has many different doctrinal teachings and one should carefully choose a solid congregation with solid teaching.
The other thing to be aware of is that Jewish believers are still Jewish and Gentile believers are still Gentiles. They do not become Jewish by following rabbinical practices. The first believers were Jewish and followed the Jewish Messiah. By the grace of God the New Covenant, was offered to the Gentiles. In that, Jew & Gentile are one in Messiah. The covenants that were made with Israel are only for the Jewish people and while Gentiles partake in the blessing of salvation they do not take the place of Israel in the covenantal relationship. The Gentiles are not “takers over,” but partakers of Jewish spiritual blessings.
I agree with you on the place of the Feasts of the Lord. While they have a deep cultural meaning to Jewish believers, the Gentile believer can see the Messianic prophecies and fulfillments in the Feasts of the Lord."
note that in this letter he seem to contradict what his website says about the feasts and is consistent with what I remembered reading in his book Footsteps of the Messiah.
On discord among the saints
One thing I've been especially hit hard with lately
(last 6 wks) is the frequency with which I am encountering divorcing Christian couples or those with severe family conflict. I've never seen so much sadness, depression, and trials in people I know worship and believe in the Lord. I have come to believe that we are all, yes the cavepeople too, targets lately for the shining one and his minions. Please keep this in mind when something posted here rubs you the wrong way. You may be under spiritual attack. I'm sure in ways we don't understand this little online fellowship has impacts for the kingdom that somebody wants to break up like he did on Joel's site.
"Therefore, encourage one another, and build up one another, just as you also are doing. " I Thes 5:11
In His Grip,
Scott
Scott,
I couldn't agree with you more!
Jib and Harold,
There is a time to speak out, and then again, sometimes not.
The differecne is found somewhere between courage and wisdom. (Ecclesiastics 3: 1-8)
Granted this has reference to all things under heaven.
In this day of grace, we all should be following the leading of the Holy Spirit, and acting accordingly.
Grany,
Perhaps you have lived long enough to be witness to a progressive revelation of God, and God's Word?
Remember in the 1950's, when Oral Roberts was all but stoned when he said, "God is a GOOD God?"
And Kenneth E. Hagin, when God told him to "go and teach my people faith?"
Bible principles, that hadn't been taught, and were all but buried.
How about Martin Luther? "The just shall live by faith?"
Also, according to the end of the book of Daniel, there will be some things (prophecy) saved for the End Times.
We do see thru a glass darkly now, concerning many things. But to walk by faith, pretty much explains why God doesn't chose to reveal everything to us, right?
Off my soapbox. And these are just my two cents, anyway. Anyone else?
Thank you Alesia for noting my request and praying for my friends.
Since this request was at the end of the last post I am going to post it again and ask that you would please, please join me in prayer for this very difficult situation!
This is what I had previously posted:
"Grateful to see the Lord so at work in the cave dwellers!
I just found out that my friend (Susan) whose daughter Jennifer is pregnant with the baby diagnosed with spina bifida will be having a C section on Monday at 8:30 AM.
The doctors want to take the baby (Kaitlynn) 2 weeks earlier than planned because of concern with the encephelitis.(sp)
I sooooo covet your prayers for them. Jen is the mom. Susan is my dearest friend.
Lord willing I may be going up to Tacoma where they live to be with them on Monday.
These are the most precious people in the world and God has been moving mightily in their family.
Whenever I tell them of all of the people praying for Kaitlynn and all they are so humbly grateful."
Grace
Lisa
I did just send you an email but not exactly the one I was going to send :-)
Scott
thank you for your thoughtful post, it was an answer to prayer.
Marge
thank you for your comments as well. since you asked, :-), I have always thought that what was being referred to was actually the resurgence of dispensationalism and the rise of Christian zionism. I think I would have to also put in there reconsidering the Bible via a Jewish lens.
URGENT PRAYER REQUEST----
I just got a call - my daughter is going from urgent care, via ambulance, to the hospital.
She has had a bad cold & is having a hard time breathing.
Urgent care can't keep her oxygen levels from plummeting & are concerned.
Please pray
Sa'ar: Livni wants 'leftist' government
Nato plan for rapid-reaction force to counter Russian agression
Margaret Thatcher's speech to the College of Europe "We should develop the WEU, not as an alternative to NATO, but as a means of strengthening Europe's contribution to the common defence of the West"
Explosion at Pakistan Marriott hotel kills 40
Pakistan President: We Won't Tolerate Violation of Sovereignty
16 FOREIGN NATIONALS/CORPORATIONS INDICTED ON CHARGES OF ILLEGALLY EXPORTING POTENTIAL MILITARY AND EXPLOSIVES COMPONENTS TO IRAN
Hamas says favors national unity government with Fatah
Russia made clear Saturday it opposes Western push for sanctions against Iran
ANC forces South African President Mbeki to resign
CERN: Damage to new collider forces 2-month halt
NATO Members Wonder: Will The Alliance Hold
Ahmadinejad Grows Stronger In Iran
Father, we ask for you to intercede on behalf of Alesia's daughter in Jesus' name. Please help restore her oxygen levels and give the medical staff at the attending facility, wisdom regarding her treatment. Lord, please give Alesia the peace that passes all understanding. We rebuke fear and death in the name of Jesus.
amen
Amen.
Jib,
I agree.
Alesia
praying with you.
Grace
please tell your friends about caringbridge.com I think they would find it helpful and of value. a family from my parents church used for their son and it was an excellent help to them
so under the weird category we have this offering.
Will Giants Walk the Earth Again
as with most things genertic engineering has noticeable benefits in several fields but can be used for evil.
I join you all in prayer for the healing of Alesia's daughter.
alesia;
Joining in prayer with everyone for your daughter!
grany;
"Why doesn't the WHOLE BODY OF CHRIST HAVE THE SAME INTERPRETATION OF GOD'S WORD?"
This is the central most disturbing question I have asked also. You are not alone with this question, I did post some time ago on it. It troubles me greatly. I, least of all, do not have the full answer. I wish I did because it is so troubling to me. God Bless all!
Maranatha!
Thank you very much, my dear. I may be getting older but I'm not getting any younger...er...I may be getting lder but...
Now what was I saying? Hmmm slipped my mind...
Jib,
"People should be skeptical, cautious and critically think about what they choose to believe and sift it through the lens of scripture and not jump on the band wagon of every new theory or thought that comes along."
You know what Jib-we really don't do that. You jump to presumptions before you have gone through the studies we have.
That is where some people get frustrated with you.
We've already compared the scripture and gone through it. I can prove this by the last statement you posted about the Jewish Feasts & what you know about them. If you would have already done the research you would have realized that on every Feast date so far that lines up w/the solar & lunar eclipse cycle-some major event in Jewish History has occurred.
God is as anal and precise as you are. He's already told us in scripture that He uses the constellations to communicate with us. So I don't think it's a negative trait to be spot on and precise since it's also an attribute of our Creator. On the other hand-He is also supernatural and that aspect of His attributes can't be pushed into neat & organized package. Some things are out of our control. In order to speak in tongues you have to submit yourself 100% and let the Holy Spirit take over & just let it flow. You have no control over what is said other than just keeping your mouth shut to not say anything.
So as in every aspect in life it's all about balance.
As far as this "Alien" topic. I got a word from the Lord on that one. If it wasn't the Lord-then it must have been from Satan & I didn't know how to test the spirits properly. Regardless it was a desperate plea to God in concern for someone else & it was answered the next day. So from what I have looked @ so far it still appears to be OK and not one of malice intent.
So if you want to scoff @ the Alien subject go ahead. But if it was from the Lord it's not me you'll have to answer to. That's why I never worry about it & keep on posting information under that topic.
If it is true & something of this sort does come to pass then at least if it's been covered & no surprise. If it's not true-then great. I don't want to see those critters anyway!
We don't really mind debates & different perceptions if they are offered out of research & knowledge.
A general opinion is welcome. But to get dogmatic about a topic when you have not immersed yourself in it is what gets a few of us hot & bothered.
Some of us have more time to spend (such as myself-I don't work other than the kids) to read, research, & pray.
You have a high stress job & a blessed responsibility to your patients. You probably spend most of your extra time in study & prayer but it probably does not compare to the amount of time some of us can spend looking @ various Biblical topics just for the simple fact of allotted time.
I've been praying for something more to open up my direction. Visiting the old, sick, or anything to do w/the Lord's will. As of yet I'm still on standby. So I take that as keep doing what you’re doing-even though what "I" want to do is something more tangible. But for now it's studying various Biblical subjects & planting non-sprouting seedlings.
(talk about frustrating.)
Why was my neighborhood burnt down & I was sent to TN only to move back to CA 1 year later? I have no social connections in TN-so it's given me the time for introspect & drawing closer to Him w/o the distractions. That's the only thing I can figure out because it's about the only thing I've done other than family duties.
You’re a great momma hen protecting her chicks but can you just give your opinion w/o the extras until you've had the opportunity to fully study what you’re skeptical & questioning about?
You still may not agree with us but at least you won't think we are as careless & gullible as what is portrayed.
Only just saw the prayer request, Alesia.
Praying earnestly for your daughter.
I am not the same anonymous who has recently posted here. I'm praying in the Spirit that I will be as gentle as he was.
I read the post where Dr. Fruchtenbaum replied to Jib's question.
I must tell you that I am very confused, as my famiy has attended several of the Messianic Bible Study Family Camp's at Camp Shoshanah and I have listened to the Frucht speak many times regarding the rapture.
I plan to write to him also and ask him for an explanation - maybe he has changed his mind. But on his "Come and See" section he also has added his teaching regarding the rapture, and he in part says the following (which I've lifted off his PDF file):
.........."This event is said to happen at the time of the last trump (1 Thes. 4:16). Both Midtribulationists and Posttribulationists try to identify this with the seventh trumpet of the Book of Revelation. But this cannot be what Paul meant by the last trump; because, at the time his first letter to the Corinthians was written, John had not yet written the Book of Revelation. The Corinthians would not have had any knowledge of seven trumpets. Yet it is evident from the fact that Paul used the definite article the last trump, he expected the Corinthians to know what he was talking about. The only knowledge they would have of trumpets are those spoken of in the Old Testament, especially those of the Feast of Trumpets. The last trump refers to this feast and to the Jewish practice of blowing trumpets at this feast each year. During the ceremony; there is a series of short trumpet sounds concluding with one long trumpet blast called the tekiah gedolah, which means, "the great trumpet blast." This is what Paul meant by the last trump. As such, it says nothing concerning the timing of the Rapture; only that the Rapture, whenever it comes, will fulfill the Feast of Trumpets.
(emphasis added by me)
Very curious..........when I get my reply from the Frucht, I will post it here also.
Blessings to you all.
Well, I was thinking, rather, mulling around in my little pea brain about the rapture not taking place on a feast day.
But then the Lord reminded me of a scripture in Luke where Jesus was talking about pulling an animal out of a crevice or ditch, on the sabbath because it needed to be rescued.
I am curious about a couple of things....to the last anony...how did you find this blog?
Just wondering! We welcome new folks!!
Thank you for posting and we will all be interested in Dr. Fruchtenbaum's response.
Maybe he has changed his mind.
I know over the years I have changed my mind on certain topics.
The Bible can be confusing. Some things are not that clear.
concerning the last trump;
I have read teaching that this trumpet is the one that is sounded after the trumpets for assembly ect. are sounded. This "last trump" is the one sounded for the command to "move out", therefore this is parallel to the rapture teaching to "move out". It makes the most sense to me since Paul was given to writing about military related examples in relation to the Christian life. It is not tied to any trumpet sounding in scripture. Has anyone else heard of this? Of course it could just be too simplistic an explanation?? But I like simplistic LOL.
Maranatha!
Lisa
I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what I have and have not studied. I viewed Pastor Blitz's material and came away with different conclusions. to imply that I must not have studied as much as you because I reached different conclusions is presumptuous on your part.
Does God put signs in the heavens-yes he does, he does so so that all may be without excuse when they stand before the throne for judgment. However, looking at data and then trying to fit it in with a preconceived notion or theory or what Scripture says is not appropriate. We should be looking first to scripture and then to the data of the real world including signs in the stars. There is only one blood red moon mentioned in Revelation. I think it is safe to say that one of the upcoming blood red moons will be one of the ones described by Blitz. I think it is also safe to say that the exact significance of all the upcoming blood red moons is at this time unknown.
as far as being dogmatic goes-that would be the pot calling the kettle black I think. you, harold and atty for that matter are as dogmatic about your new theories and can not abide any criticism in any form. Because I look at what you say critically and don't welcome with uncritical enthusiasm all this different information I stand accused of being a wet blanket, overly critical, dogmatic and various other epithets. So because I haven't spent hours upon hours studying any of this I can't proffer criticism and point out potential weakness? interesting. So if you have studied this for hours and hours you ought to easily be able to counter my arguments with further evidence or other evidence-if you can not then perhaps you might want to rethink or re study your information. While you may have studied the information, have you actually critically looked at the information.
As to frustration it is mutual let me assure you.
as far as jumping on the band wagon-sorry, that is still the impression I get.
last anonymous
I also would be interested in this discrepancy between what is on his site and what was sent to me in his response. I do believe it is also what he wrote about in his book. It may be that he has changed his mind but if so I am not sure how he changed it.
Jib,
I will post his reply.
I kept thinking after I posted that maybe he is really stating that whatever day the church is raptured that it will fulfill the Feast of Trumpets, and not saying, as I always thought he was saying that it will be on a Feast of Trumpets, one of these years.
But that doesn't make sense to me, as I don't see how you could say it was fulfilled if it does not occur on the Feast of Trumpets.
It is also possible that he has just simply changed his mind, and feels that he was wrong in the past. I know, I've done that (not that I'm comparing myself in any way to him - my goodness no.)
Anyway, we'll soon see, as he is always very good at answering promptly.
Have you gone to Camp Shoshanah for his Messianic Bible Study Family Camps?
My family has sure enjoyed them. He is such a wonderful teacher and it is just beautiful up there.
Blessing to you.
I would agree. no I have not been but would like to do so but time constraints won't make it possible for a couple of years at least and by that time who knows.
I don’t want to spend too much time on this subject, but here’s my take on all this:
This forum reminds me a lot about what happens at Jack Kinsella’s Omega Letter. There are people there from diverse backgrounds and they bicker there as well. They bicker over basically the same things that we do. Surprise! We are all Christians but we are human as well.
Harold, I can relate to not liking to be challenged constantly. I’ve been guilty of challenging others and I don’t like it happening to me. Truth be known, I am VERY curious about the same stuff you post about. In fact I bet a lot of us are. I nearly posted a link to Dr Earth Quake’s interview of Mike S Heiser because I found it absolutely fascinating. From my point of view, I do like hearing the latest theories and I would like you to keep posting them here, as others do. Same goes for ATTY. The same goes for others who have posted here before and feel they can’t for whatever reason - John (Boatman) if you’re still reading here.
My own comments about Biltz resulted because, over the years, I have seen similar excitement over possible rapture dates only to be wrong and the mockers chimed in. One of my many faults (apart from the fact that I’m still researching the rapture beliefs) is that I often visit other sites who just love to sling mud at pretrib over petty and downright erroneous issues. Perhaps I’m too sensitive – my comments here derived from that. I ask myself, had I been a Hadley with all this interesting info – do I keep it in? Don’t I have a duty to say something? Hadley decided to present the info and went out of his way to stress that he wasn’t sure what this all meant. I can’t vouch for Biltz because I’ve only read his recent disclaimer. I was concerned that some might feel let down if September goes and nothing happens.
Like at the OL, we’re a diverse lot and I’m sure there’s lots of other stuff that others might like to post here but haven’t. I’m sure that Grany, Kathy, Marge and others would like to talk about stuff that we’ve discussed before (and bickered about) but don’t for the sake of peace. I notice that Jack Kinsella at the OL rarely interferes with the heated debates that happen occasionally over there. We’re all Christians and we all agree on the essentials of the faith. We have diverse interests – I definitely don’t agree with some of the opinions here – Alesia knows that well! But I’m also a relative babe in Christ. The older I get the more I realize the more I need to learn. What I’m saying is that people should feel free to speak their minds but also accept that others may not agree or be interested in the topic, and may even challenge in some form. But let’s be mindful of each other’s feelings.
Let us all be wise Bereans, but also tolerant of one another’s opinions and interests (within scriptural boundaries). When the Lord returns, let Him find us doing that. Time is running out for this world and we need to support each other.
I have a lot of secular friends that I socialize with. I went out to dinner on Friday night with some of them and I can tell you that that experience made me appreciate the OL and you guys here so much more.
Let’s all love and tolerate one another. He IS coming soon!
Maranatha!
I have been out socializing all afternoon. I went to see my wonderful friend to talk about Jesus and we sure did! Oh, I wish we could all just get together under an old oak tree and share until we all cry HOLY, HOLY IS THE LORD GOD ALMIGHT! I went to see my precious friend Minerva but she wasn't home and I was really disappointed so I troddled off to Wally world sure I wasn't going to see anyone that knew where I was coming from. Then I ran into about a happy dozen of the most wonderful sisters in Christ you could ever want to be with. It was wonderful.
I was composing my comment when Harold and Anne were publishing their comments, so I didnt' go back and read anything until I just got back. I am not going to stir the pot but I find Joyce's input a blessing and value her opinion. I know that above all she loves the Lord and desires to serve him and him only.
I love Harold too and though I don't enjoy the same pursuits as the guys do, this is a world made up of varying likes and dislikes. That is a given. The main thing is to dwell together as brothers and sisters in Christ and if you really consider what a real family is like, that is exactly what we are doing. Will we ever see eye to eye? NO! But we can learn from each other and that can be the difference between life and death.
That being said, the things that really matter is that we all love and desire to serve the Lord until he comes and then the rest of the trip is up to HIM!
I miss Child of the King too, and all of the others that we used to have in fellowship but disagreements took a toll and if Child should happen to read this or it is passed on to her, I would like to say "Please forgive me my assumptions about things that happened in the past and I was wrong. I don't say that light heartedly but in all sincerity. Please do forgive me."
This is the season of Teshuvah on the Jewish calendar and a time of reflection and making things right. Forgiveness and asking forgiveness is part of it. I don't want anything keeping me from the completeness of God for any reason. And, I desire that for all of you to.
Anne, you received a word about winter being almost over and it could mean lots of things. If you have a Strogs concordance, look up the word "winter" in it and cross reference it with where and what this word is referring to in other instances. You might have to chase yourself around a lot of different bushes in the process but Winter could mean a lot of different things. Winter is the time when growth comes to rest. Winter is the season of cold; non production; lean times; the season after harvest, you get the picture but what does the scripture mean when it uses this word.
Along about that time, the Holy Spirit will step in and help you in your search. Don't give up and get discouraged because the purpose is there for the digging.
Now, I have to go read the rest of the comments. Alesia, I saw where you had requested prayer for your daughter when I was scanning for the comments after mine was posted. Am praying for her too and you also.
Love you all, my brothers and sisters in Christ; please don't bruise easily!
Grany
Wonderful posts!
Amen!
Well, hind sight is always the best use of the hind. Too bad I didn't read all of the comments before I made mine.
Think I will go watch TV.
Grany
Oh, the irony!
Obama lectures 900 rabbis: my campaign is like a shofar
EPU,
Jen
Dear Lori,
I was reading what you sent me the other day from that blog about 2015 and saw the one person mention 2012. i thought i would give you something to think about:
There has also been a lot said recently about 12/21/2012 being the last day because there are so many things that point to then. For instance, the Mayan calender was written down thousands of years in advance, but mysteriously it ends on 12/21/2012. Even ancient Chinese oracles point to that day. As do prophecies from people during the middle ages, and much more. With that in mind, there is something in the Bible that few know about.
You will recall that there is "the prophecy of the fig tree" in which Jesus said that the generation that sees it bloom will not pass away before He returns. That chapter seems to deal with Jerusalem. So if we look at Jerusalem, it came back to the Jews in 1967.
Now, there are two genealogies of Jesus in the New Testament. One goes from Adam to Jesus, which would be 4,000 years. There are 77 people in that genealogy. If we divide that we come up with 52 years per generation. The other genealogy covers from Abraham to Jesus. There are 42 people listed there. If we count from Abraham to Jesus and divide by 42 we come up again with 52 years per generation. It looks like a generation is 52 years to God.
Now, add 52 years to 1967 and you come up with the year 2019. If that is the date of the second coming, we need to back track 7 years for the length of time for the tribulation to find out when the rapture could occur, which must happen before the tribulation. Seven years back from 2019 brings us again to 2012. Maybe there really is something to the date of 12/21/2012. That could be the beginning date for the tribulation. The rapture would have to occur before then, just 4 years from now.
I am not saying I believe it 100%, but it sure seems logical.
Love, Uncle Bob
Just a quick note: Alesia is quite sick as well. She has a raging temperature, sore throat and aches and pains, so please pray for healing.
Something slightly different; for you dream buffs. I recently dreamt that I was in a library and was "EATING" a commentary on the book of Revelation. Any interpretations?
Commenting about Revelation will make you hungry? Or, You are going to eat your words that you took from the Commentary about Revelation? Shall I go on?
Grany
Was that after or before you had dinner the other night with friends?
Praying for Alesia right now!
Grany
Mac,
Just depends. Was it sweet in your mouth and then turned sour in your stomach? Maybe you think you are John the Revelator. haha.
Mr. Hyde,
On a serious note, I'm the first anonymous and boy am I feeling lousy. And even more so after spending time in prayer.
I just returned from the ICU where our Manager of the Pregnant Crisis Center is in critical condition. She was in a serious auto accident late last night.
My wife had been to the ICU earlier and came home when I relieved her. she had read the comments here while I was gone and told me that I should take a look. She had been crying.
I want to ask your forgiveness. And, please don't tell me it wasn't my fault. I don't think anything would have turned ugly if I had prayed for the good reputation of Mark Biltz instead of taking it on myself to correct the situation. My wife agrees with me too.
We buried a young lady today who died 2 days before her 100th birthday. A godly woman who was the quiet pillar of our church. Her family was the one who started our congregation. I wish all of you had a Sister Franny in your congregations. We knew that because she was loved by all the members of the other churches in our town, and by the entire town, that we would need to have the celebration of her life in one of the largest sanctuaries in town, and even then we had overflow like you wouldn't believe. It was a long celebration as almost everyone wanted to testify about how she had touched their life. So, when we took her back to the cementery on our church grounds, people who were in the overflow rooms were given a chance to speak too. What a glorious celebration of a saint's life. The day that she died she was a little sad as she said to me, "I really thought I would be in the rapture, but I know it will all be okay, as soon as I lay eyes on my Savior." I reminded her that she would in fact be in the rapture and would receive her glorious new body before those of us still here. She smiled, and said "Of course, I know that, but I wanted to see the look on your face when it happened." A few hours later, she closed her eyes and went into the arms of her Savior.
The reason for telling you all of the above, is that Franny never saw herself particularly gifted except in the intercessory prayer area, which she indeed was but we saw her giftedness in so many more areas. She was never assigned a sunday school class, yet she was asked to speak often in so many of the classes, in fact, probably every one now that I think of it. She knew her Bible, and she knew her God and Savior. And she loved everybody. As I sat and listened to all the testimonies today, of how she had affected every life, I was amazed and I knew her well. She was widowed before I came to the church, so I never knew her husband, but they say he was just like her. I can probably count by the fingers on one hand how many times I came to the church and didn't see her. And yet, she was out in the community just as often, spreading the love of God with her presence. She assisted at the Crisis Pregnancy Center, she dicipled personally every soul she brought to the Lord. She was on the counseling team, she was head of the prayer teams, on and on I could go. I never heard her correct anyone with her tongue, but convicted we were by watching her walk and her talk. And, as I was reflecting on all those things today, I was so ashamed of meddling when I had no cause to meddle. I could almost hear her asking Jesus to forgive me and to teach me the correct way to bring about good changes in a person's life. Our people learned how to pray correctly, by listening to her prayers. She never gossiped when giving a prayer request, she never let anyone else know what the cause of the concern was when she was asking for prayer for someone else, only that they needed prayer. She always said that God knew the problem and the answer was on the way. I heard her speak on controlling that little thing in our mouth called a tongue so many times, I think I could give her sermon myself. She never let on that anyone in our church had that problem, she was just sharing what the Bible said, just like any pastor would do, although she wasn't a pastor herself. But God certainly gave her the gift of sharing the Word. I recall her saying that sometimes we speak without thinking and something terrible comes out, but when we put something down on paper with pen and ink, it is worse, because we have had time to think about it, and we have had time to hear the Spirit's counsel, so if the evil comes up from our heart and onto paper via pen, we need more time with the LORD. I recall her saying so many times, the LORD doesn't like it when someone hurts any of His kids. And, I know she is right. He doesn't.
I've received the LORD's forgiveness, now may I please have yours? And all of the others that have been hurt by my talking when I should have been praying instead.
I love all of you with God's love.
Sincerely,
A Servant of the LORD amd
A Sinner Saved by Grace
Anony #1
hmm-might I point out Scott's post of earlier today and tell you I think that is true? I certainly hold no grudges or ill will toward you. and given the postings of today...
I will be praying for the young lady in question. Don't forget to pray for the medical staff taking care of her.
I loved your description of Sister Franny and especially liked her comment about the rapture. she sounded like a most remarkable woman.
btw I do know for certain that the comments about a time to speak or not were not directed at you if that bothers you.
continue to post here please.
Jib,
Nothing anybody said, did I take personal. It was what was said to you by others that hurt so much. Then, it seemed like a huge rolling stone gathering moss. And, I was convicted by the Holy Spirit. I don't think any of what followed would have taken place if I had not posted. I still think you are wrong in your assessment of what he said, but I should have left it up to the Holy Spirit. God has never given me the right to correct another brother or sister, especially if I was not the hurt person. If you had sinned against me, then I should go to you privately and with God's help create harmony and love between us but never publicly. You did not sin against me, I sinned against you and God. And, I defiled Mr. Hyde's blog spot.
Will you forgive me?
I was not angry at you because of what you said about Pastor Biltz, I just wanted to correct what you said about him. And, it was not my place.
I can not be excused just because I did not know the people here or how some of them would react.
Personally, I don't think anything terrible has happened here at all.
We are just chatting about different things.
People here have diff backgrounds, beliefs, personalities and everything else.
We have different triggers... the biltz stuff has come up already....we've chatted about it before. I'm glad its come up again.
IMO nothing has been defiled at all.
We all, or most of us at least, can come across strong on certain topics.
I fell asleep in a chair while watching the news....just signing off....you all will be in my prayers.
<>< night
yes I do although I don't feel as strongly about it as you do. as to whether what was said would have been said without you-I don't know about that.
anony #1
I decided to separate these comments from the other post.
we are entitled to disagree. While I don't necessarily agree with all PAstor Blitz's conclusions his arguments are as Jack Kinsella pointed out compelling but..
and as to the date setting-I will admit he doesn't set a date for the rapture specifically but it is tacit in his reasoning for the significance of that particular cycle in 2014-2015 if one places it at the end of the trib.
truthfully I would place that at the midpoint of the tribulation since I believe that the "great day of the Lord" refers to the entire last half of the Tribulation. Frucht gives the best most compelling argument for this that I have run across.
if one accepts the premise that the cycle of 2014-2015 is at the end of the tribulation then if one is pre trib that would mean that the rapture would have to be this year. Further if you accept that this set of conjunctions occurs at the end of the trib within the space of very little time and in the extremely near future we must have Is 17, Ps 83, Ezk 38, the setting up of a one world government, the rise of the AC, the confirmation of a peace treaty by the AC, the melding of the world's religions and the building of the Temple with resumption of the sacrifices all before 2009 or within at best 6 months of the start of 2009 and at that 7 years after jan 2009 is jan 2016. I do think however it is more than possible if one places the 2014-2015 cycles at the midpoint of the tribulation, the tribulation really wouldn't start until the year of 2012-there is more than enough time for all the above events to start and even complete before that time. I also suspect that there will be an undefined period of time-how much is anyone's guess-between the events of the rapture and the start of the tribulation.
I should add that was really what the take home message I got from the video-I don't disagree in principle that those particular lunar eclipses aren't significant I just think the significance remains to be seen and I would place them at a different point in the trib.
Anonymous; I forgive you even if there is nothing to forgive. I really don't think all the current issues here can be attributed to the Biltz topic or your input. I'm sure it will blow over - as it should. Keep posting. Don't think you're too conservative - maybe God directed you here for a purpose. You may well have something we need to hear.
Harold; I meant to say earlier that there are many who appreciate to hear about any new ideas out there. I, for one, enjoy your posts even when I disagree with the premises. Trust me, my interests are quite eclectic.
Grany, I've been studying Revelation fairly passionately lately. Maybe the dream was telling me that I was trying to digest it all?
Jib,
Thank you. Now, maybe I will have a peaceful sleep.
I do not want to debate you on your take of the double parenthesis around the 2014-2015 Jewish year. As I would only be speculating. I have no idea what it means.
I do admire Dr. Fruchtenbaum' teaching but I have never read his book. I too have heard him teach that he believes the Rapture will fulfill the Feast of Trumpets. I think he may have just changed his mind or as the other anonymous said, we may not be hearing what he meant.
I also admire Dr. Thomas Ice's teaching on Prophecy too, but I don't agree with him either on everything. But, I do listen and I do ponder it in my heart as I am studying the scriptures.
I read Donna's comments, but I still have to go with the Holy Spirit directing me and His convictions. It is my LORD I need to please. And, I pray I never make that mistake again.
You may be right that you may have been hit even if I had never said anything, appears from what I read this evening, these things have happened before. But, I did comment when I shouldn't have, and I take responsibility for my part.
Thank you for forgiving me, at least that is how I am reading your "Yes I do."
Please don't take offense, but I have to ask you if your heritage is British? I have a friend who lives in Britain and his name is Jib Livingston. So, when I see your name, I think of a round country jolly gentleman. Can't help it, because that is who he is.
So, if you're not round, country or jolly, please forgive me again.
And, my Jib would never discuss end time prophecy, he says it is "too thick" for me.
God bless you Jib. See you in My Father's house.
As Homer Simpson would say, "D'oh!"
Damage to atom smasher forces two-month halt
Alls well that ends well :)
Someone wrote a play about that, didn't they? (smile)
Goodnight from western WA.!
Sleep well, all!
Oh, my goodness.
I have no idea how I did that, ending up with two identical messages.
Mr. Hyde,
Will you please delete one of them?
Again, I am so sorry for my part in the flare-up.
I noticed tonight that Alesia posted the last message on your home page. I read about her sickness, and we will be praying for her and her daughter.
See you upstairs in my Father's house.
p.s. Your name Hyde sounds like you may be British too. (just teasing).
I've deleted the double post.
No, not British. I'm an Aussie with an Italian background (and a mixed one at that) - nothing to brag about.
Good night, all. Have a blessed day tomorrow!
Things Don't Just Happen
by Esther L. Fields (before 1944)
Things don't just happen to us who love God;
They're planned by His own dear hand.
Then molded and shaped, and timed by His clock.
Things don't just happen; they're planned.
We don't just guess on the issues of life,
We Christians just rest in our Lord.
We are directed by His sovereign will
In the light of His holy word.
We who love Jesus are walking by faith,
Not seeing one step that's ahead,
Not doubting one moment what our lot might be,
But looking to Jesus instead.
We praise our dear Saviour for loving us so,
For planning each care of our life,
Then giving us faith to trust Him for all,
The blessings as well as the strife.
Things don't just happen to us who love God,
To us who have taken our stand.
No matter the lot, the course, or the price,
Things don't just happen; they're planned.
Death Wish: The Impending Suicide of a once great nation by Fr. John Corapi
"Their complaint was humble and it was simple. They were not distressed by rising gas prices, or the deteriorating economy in general. They were not even frightened by the exponential increase of natural disasters. The threat of global warming or global terrorism did not greatly disturb them.
They had become an endangered species, and little had been done to answer their terrified and silent screams from the womb... "
The link is to a page that has both a pair of YouTube videos of Fr. Corapi's presentation (gotta love his voice!), and a printable PDF file.
<><
Anony, several of us have posted things that have led to strong dissagreements.
I've freaked out several time in response to posts re: Mary and the saints as I believe praying to them is idol worship or close to it. (We have at least one resident Catholic here.)
(I was raised Catholic.)
Others have freaked out over posts re: tongues discussions.
Others over pre-trib/pre-wrath.
Others over "once saved always saved".
And salvation by works vs faith.
There are probably other hot topics that we just discuss and have dialogues that at times gets intense.
So this is not that big of a deal, in my opinion.
I may be speaking out of turn, but somehow I think jib (who is a female as jib are her initials) can handle Harold's statements.
She is skeptical and responds so, and is the first to admit it.
I doubt Lisa gets upset over jibs recent statements to her. Lisa does tend to jump onto lots of things...that is obvious by the many posts of(somewhat unusual at times) topics she brings up. I am sure she would be the first to admit it, too.
Some of us are more blunt than others. I personally think many are too politically correct and don't speak up when they should actually.
I also like to hear about some of these new things. I'm not sure how new they are...some of these teachings seem to reinforce things many of us have already thought to be possibly Biblically based.
Lots of us are on the fence about lots of this. Lots of us are kind of "let's wait and see" about some of these things.
So we are quite a garden variety here.
Hopefully we all believe "For GOd so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever would believe in Him would have eternal life."
He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No man can come to the Father, but thru Him.
Maranatha!
<><
New post at Joel's.
-HB
Jib,
I enjoy the discussions & fellowship we have @ the cave but I don't see it as the place to concentrate on winning debates.
If there is something specific that you would like me to answer the next time something comes up then just mention it. I probably won't think to hit all your required points without telling me exactly what you would like to know.
**The other day I started working on what has happened in past Jewish History based upon the on the blood moon/solar cycles but its not finished yet.(I didn't want to post it 1/2 done.)
Anony,
Please don't beat yourself up over our spats. Thanks so much for sharing about Sister Franny. She's certainly an inspiration.
The more we spat around here the more we realize how far we fall short from what we will one day through the grace of God become in Christ.
Sister Franny has us beat.(And she even beat us to Heaven!) But remember Peter? When Jesus asked him Do you love me three times?
Do you love me as a friend? Do you love me as a brother? Do you have divine love for me?
We are all on different stages of the same road so don't expect to be @ the end of the road like Sister Franny. I don't know how old you are but she's got 60 years of wisdom & experience on me.
And I know I'm rock in and rollin along that road and either I'll get called up and shaped up or after all the bumps and bruises of rolling along or being tossed around in the sea-after time & many trials my hard headed rock of a brain will be smooth and polished by life experience & spiritual growth.
Jesus loves us the same whether rough or smooth. He knows where we will be in the end.
Meanwhile we just help eachother and put up with eachother here through it all.
I found this new article by Jack to be interesting and helpful so I thought I would post it. Hope you all find it so too.
From This Day On I Will Bless You
This Week’s Featured Article by Jack Kelley
On the twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, in the second year of Darius, the word of the LORD came to the prophet Haggai: “This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘Ask the priests what the law says: If a person carries consecrated meat in the fold of his garment, and that fold touches some bread or stew, some wine, oil or other food, does it become consecrated?’ ” The priests answered, “No.”
Then Haggai said, “If a person defiled by contact with a dead body touches one of these things, does it become defiled?”
“Yes,” the priests replied, “it becomes defiled.” Then Haggai said, ” ‘So it is with this people and this nation in my sight,’ declares the LORD. ‘Whatever they do and whatever they offer there is defiled.
” ‘Now give careful thought to this from this day on —consider how things were before one stone was laid on another in the LORD’s temple. When anyone came to a heap of twenty measures, there were only ten. When anyone went to a wine vat to draw fifty measures, there were only twenty. I struck all the work of your hands with blight, mildew and hail, yet you did not turn to me,’ declares the LORD.
‘From this day on, from this twenty-fourth day of the ninth month, give careful thought to the day when the foundation of the LORD’s temple was laid. Give careful thought: Is there yet any seed left in the barn? Until now, the vine and the fig tree, the pomegranate and the olive tree have not borne fruit. ” ‘From this day on I will bless you.’ “ (Haggai 2:10-19)
After returning from the Babylonian captivity the Jews had faced a lot of resistance in trying to rebuild their Temple. Finally they gave up, wrongly deciding that perhaps it wasn’t God’s timing. When they did, they faced another kind of trouble as well. They lost the Lord’s favor, and from then on no matter how hard they worked they weren’t successful. Each time they thought they were getting ahead, they discovered they were actually getting behind. Even their offerings weren’t pleasing to Him.
On the day they they turned back to the construction of the Lord’s house, this all stopped and He restored their blessings. What was the lesson? He wanted them to put His house first, especially in times of persecution.
Financial Disasters
The Lord’s depletion of their stored up goods is a model of today’s losses, first in the decline of the dollar and now in the decline of property values. The dollar has lost over 28 % of it’s value in the world markets, making the foreign made products we buy, or those made of imported materials, more expensive. (Try to find something on your shopping list that doesn’t fit into one or the other of those two categories.)
The average home in the US is now worth 25% less than it was a few months ago. Since most people didn’t have 25% equity in their homes to begin with, that means the average home owner now owes more on his or her property can it can be sold for. Estimated losses for the Real Estate market will exceed $1 trillion. About one third of that, $350 billion, has been reported so far, so we can expect much more bad news on that score. Officials are projecting that up to 110 retail banks could fail this year, but some estimates put the eventual total at well over 1,000 before this crisis is over.. If they’re right then one out of every eight banks is already in some kind of financial trouble. Retired Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan has called this situation a “once-in-a-century” financial disaster, and it’s impacting financial markets all over the world.
Natural Disasters
The blight, mildew, and hail of Haggai 2 are models of the natural disasters that are also afflicting us now. We’ve just entered the hurricane season and already the damages are in the billions. As it was with the Israelites, the fruits of our labors are disappearing, and our offerings are not pleasing to the Lord.
Things that were external and physical in the Old Testament often become internal and spiritual in the New. In the Old Testament the Temple was a building in Jerusalem, but in the New we are the Temple of God, and things aren’t national anymore, they’re personal. The good news is that as believers we’re not held captive to the fate of our nation like the Israelites were. In 2 Chron. 7:14 the Lord promised the Israelites,
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
This was a promise to the Jewish people that if as a nation they would return to their covenant relationship with God he would restore His blessings on the Promised Land. The application of this promise to the US is not appropriate. For us the applicable verses are Matt. 6:31-33.
So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
This is a promise to each of us personally. We’re not to worry about how we’ll get by. We’re to seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be given us as well. The Lord’s feeding of first 5000 and then 4000 was meant to teach us that He is able to provide when we’re willing to let Him. The feeding of 5,000 is the only one of His many pre-resurrection miracles that’s described in all four gospels, which means that except for the Resurrection it was His most important one.
Now that doesn’t mean we can sit back like baby birds with our mouths open crying, “Feed me”. Paul said that he who will not work shall not eat. (2 Thes. 3:10) But it does mean that we are to put our trust in Him to take care of us regardless of the circumstances, to do the work He gives us no matter what it is, and concentrate on coming closer to Him.
Let’s Get Personal
The time is coming soon when every Christian family in America will either have a personal experience of miraculous survival in the face of financial disaster or will know of one who has. In each case the story will be the same as it was for the Jews of Haggai’s day. As soon as they stopped worrying about their own lives and turned back to the business of building the Lord’s Temple, His blessings were restored. As soon as we stop worrying about how we’re going to survive the potentially difficult days ahead and focus our lives on Him we’ll experience the same result.
Please don’t misunderstand me here. I’m not talking about some external application of legalism. I’m not talking about mindless obedience to rules and commandments while our hearts are in rebellion . I’m talking about an inner reliance on the Lord, about restoring our faith in both His ability and His desire to provide for us.
There’s no prophecy we can point to for assurance that the Lord will save the United States. Applying Old Testament promises meant for Israel to the US is just another form of replacement theology. This is not a national issue. This is a personal one, and each one of us will determine the outcome for our own lives.
The very day that Israel decided to resume building the Lord’s House He restored their blessings. This is a part of the prophecy you can claim for yourself. The very day you determine in your heart to place your life in His hands He will begin blessing you.
That doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll all get to keep everything we now have. Some of our possessions are actually the cause of our problems, both because we’ve over spent to get them and because they’ve taken our focus off the Lord. Some of them have even enslaved us, and were much more fun in the getting than they are in the having. Many came with ongoing ownership costs like interest or other fees that eat away at our resources.
The Lord will show you what, if anything, has to go. And don’t worry about incurring losses. If He tells you to get rid of something and you obey, then over time He’ll restore your losses. How do I know this? Three reasons. One, He wants you to store up treasure in Heaven. (Matt. 6:19-21) Two, He’s promised that you’ll be made rich in every way so you can be generous on every occasion. (2 Cor. 9:11) You can’t do either of these if you’re taking huge losses. And Three He promised to repay you for the years the locusts have eaten. (Joel 2:25) That means when you turn back to Him He’ll give you joy in return for the misery you’ve caused yourself.
But don’t think He’ll restore your fortunes just so you can keep all your toys, or get them all back. That’s the failure of the so-called prosperity gospel. The Lord’s promise is that we’ll be made rich so we can be generous, not so we can be irresponsible or selfish. It’s in being generous that we store up treasure in Heaven, where no form of property or currency devaluation can do us harm. Generous people are also the happiest people. See how it works?
Some will say, “I’m so far in debt even if I started today it would take 10 years to get out.” I say, “How much debt will you have in 10 years if you don’t start today? The way I see things shaping up, you can either downsize voluntarily and do it the easy way, or you can wait till you’re forced to and do it the hard way.
Now I know better than anyone that the rapture could come any day now and spare us all these things. But if you’re part of the 90% of believers with a pagan world view, the longer He waits the more time you’ll have to finally start storing up treasure in Heaven, where it will benefit you forever. When you know you’re moving to a different city soon, you begin thinking about your new home and what your life will be like there. Take my word for it, you’re moving to a different city soon, so you’d better start thinking about it.
I used to pray for more money so I could pay the bills on my outrageous lifestyle. I didn’t get it. Now I live on less than 1/3 of what I used to spend and in every sense I’m wealthier than I was. Now I pray for more money so I can give more to His work, and He always sends it. You think maybe there’s a lesson in there somewhere? Selah 09-20-08
Maranatha!
Dear Lori:
Please tell your wonderful prayer partners about the latest with Geoff. His Oncologist told him that because many insurance companies are now not paying for chemo and radiation on many new cancers because they know they don't work, he wants Geoff to attend an Oncologist Forum with him. He wants him to tell them all the alternative treatments he tried and Geoff is going to attend and will tell them about the alternatives.........but is also going to tell them what healed him was prayer from around the world and Jesus. So ask them to pray he can touch some of their hearts. Thanks so much. And again thank them from me personally for their faithfulness. They are such a blessing.
Love, Mom
Lori,
I looked at Judges but I'm drawing a blank in finding a type of shadow. Let us know when Uncle Bob reveals what he's come up with-now he's got me curious!
GT,
Good article. Interesting today that our Pastor had a completely different message re: what's happening w/the US and how we should respond.
He focused in on prayer. Luke 18:1"Then He spoke to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart,......Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on earth?"
1 Timothy 2:1-4 (Pray for all Men)
"Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires all me to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth."
5.)For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Jesus Christ....
8.)I desire therefore that men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.....
Basically that it's past time for intercessory prayer for our leaders of this country.(Presidents, politicians, pastors,
judges...) That it is good and acceptable in the sight of the Lord to pray for them in order that God (who holds their hearts in His hands) may influence our leader’s decisions. Not to mention that our leaders may see the truth & find God.
Then he really got on people who call themselves "Christians" who support anyone who is pro-choice.
That life is more important than what financial or social gain may trickle down to you if they are elected.
It's time to get on our knees and start praying. Pray for a Revival.
That sincere heart rendering prayer can change the course of God's judgment.
***He also did make a little quip about not being into end time doom/gloom mentality.
So really both of these thoughts apply to us. One-we should pray for our leaders & a revival regardless of whether we think we'll taken home soon or not & Two-we should be sensible, have things in order both materially & spiritually, and not worry about tomorrow should it be God's will that He not withhold his hand from the U.S.
What do you think?
Should we have a sense of urgency and desperation for God in light of what is happening to our country?
Lisa,
Before I post what Uncle Bob's thoughts are on those chapters, tell me what do you think the Bible is referring to when it talks of "the time of the gentiles will be completed"
I think whether or not you agree with him (I'm not sure yet) will depend upon your definition.
thanks
lori
The reason I asked you to explore that first, is that his interpretation is so devestating to some ideas we've held for so long.
Shalom all! Thought you might find this interesting in light of the expansion that Gog desires:
Moscow's moves in Georgia track a script by right-wing prophet
Lori, Shalom! After reading and re-reading Judges 19-21, I think it can be summed up in the last verse:
In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what he thought best. Judges 21:25
NOT what everyone believed HaShem wanted, NOT "after consulting the Lord", but "what he thought best." During the time of judges there was no king because G_D didn't want anyone to come between Him and His people. Yet they refused to seek His guidance. As a result, with everyone doing "what he thought best", there was no one to remand another: who are you to tell me that my way is wrong. Rather like today's moral relativism.
This allowed the situation to develop so that travelers and strangers could be assaulted, raped, and murdered with impunity.
Note that in the beginning, the Levite was offered all the safety and convenience that custom required, and more: not only did he stay three days at his father-in-law's house, but the FIL got him to stay a few days more as his guest. When they were traveling, he chose to keep on traveling until they reached a city of Israelites, believing they would be safe there. However, it wasn't the Benjaminites who offered shelter, but a stranger to the region. This is the first clue as to how low the Benjaminites had fallen.
Once you offered someone food and shelter, they were your responsibility. You needed to protect them, since their blood would be on your head. This was so important and the penalties for violation of this code were so severe that it was better to offer up your virgin daughters (who would be the only ones to suffer) than to give in to the crowd (where your entire family would suffer). If you offered your daughters to these people you meet every day, they may reconsider; if they don't, you should be able to have judgment passed against them. If you gave the stranger to them to abuse and kill, though, then you're a "made man" -- anyone can do anything against you, and you will never be able to call on your neighbors for protection against anyone again. Since the crowd didn't hesitate to kill the concubine and leave her at the doorstep, that REALLY shows how bad the situation was.
The situation was so bad, that the only way he could have made anyone believe it was to send pieces of his dead concubine to the leaders of all the tribes, including the Benjaminites. When the Benjaminites refused to help bring the rapists to justice, that's when G_D's justice was poured out upon them. This is a story of the Israelites taking justice against one of their own who refused to listen to the Lord, but in the end showed some mercy towards the remnant so that one of the twelve tribes should not disappear. The Benjaminites lost faith in the Lord, and so fell to this level of lawlessness.
I think it very telling that after this story comes two stories of exceptional faithfulness: Ruth, who became the type/story of the Gentiles coming to G_D; and Hannah, whose faith in G_D produced Samuel. (And if you want to talk about types and shadows, compare Hannah's song in 1 Samuel 2:1-10 with Mary's Magnificat in Luke 1:46-55!)
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lori;
These verses come to mind when you mentioned the "time of the gentiles will be complete". Especially verse 16 which seems to point to a time "after God will take out of the gentiles a people for His name".
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
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Here is a bit of our dialog with Uncle Bob:
From Bob; I was studying the story of Joseph in regards to Benjamin. Joseph Prince, the minister from Singapore, had said that he thought Benjamin represented "grace." I found him to be wrong, but he was on to something. In reality, Benjamin represents the church. Grace was given to him. Remember, Joseph gave him five times the amount of food (5 is the number for grace). There are a bunch of other things in this shadow, but for brevity's sake I will say that as soon as I saw Benjamin as the church, everything in the Judges story became clear. As an aside, though, a mystery was cleared up for me as to the divining cup put in Benjamin's sack. I always wondered about that since God was against divining. I now see that shadow as representing the fact that God gave us (the church) a "look" into heaven, the same as divining cups were used to look over the other side of death.
Here is what I see in the Judges story:
The concubine is the Law or Old Covenant. That makes so much sense now because even Paul tells us that Haggar (a concubine) was the Old Covenant and Sarah was the New Covenant.
The Five days the Levite delayed is speaking of Grace. Once Grace was concluded (Jesus' crucifixion), the concubine (Law) was killed.
We then go into the Israelites fighting the Benjaminites (Jews versus the church), which lasts for two days (2,000 years). On the third day the Benjaminites see the cloud of smoke leave (The church becomes an apostate church and the Holy Spirit/Cloud leaves the church).
The Benjaminites are destroyed. A remnant must be given a bride. They get their bride from Jebesh Gilead (Jebesh comes from the root word for Jerusalem and Gilead means rock, thus rock of Jerusalem being Jesus). This is a shadow of the rapture. (Actually, remember that bride and bridegroom are almost interchangeable - they speak of a union).
After that another group of Benjaminites needs a bride, which they get from Shilow. The key here is Shilow. That was the place of the original tent of meeting for God before Solomon's temple. This group of Benjaminites is the tribulation church.
I wish I had hours to go into more details right now, but Shilow is the big deal for me. It was impressed on me that this meant that the church during tribulation times would be solely Jewish. It would include no Gentiles, which makes sense when we consider that the "time of the Gentiles" would have been completed. What God seemed to be impressing on me was that all of us are wrong when we think (like the Left Behind series) that our loved ones who are left behind after the rapture will have a chance. I believe from what I am seeing in this shadow that all Gentile eyes will be blinded, like the Jewish eyes are now. This thought sent chills up me. It makes me realize even more the need for evangelism now. I should have seen that because the 144,000 evangelists are all Jewish. When the days of the Gentiles is completed, it is completed. Our loved ones have until the rapture.
My response to him:
Dear Uncle Bob,
I have one question regarding the theory that only Jews will be saved after the rapture. So are you saying that the evangelists will only be evangelizing the Jewish population? I sure hope you're wrong. lori
His comeback:
Dear Lori,
That is the impression I am getting. It is totally new to me, too, but as I said, it does make sense since we are told that the end comes when the time of the Gentiles is complete. I guess complete means complete. love, Uncle Bob
Dear Bob, what you are saying is very frightening. I do remember you telling me that in the Bible, a woman always symbolized the church. Please tell me more of what you believe. With the Spirit of God. Tom
Dear Tom,
No, a woman does not always represent the church. In this case, the woman (concubine) represents the Law (old Covenant). Adulteresses normally represent idol worship or any worship other than that of God. In Christ, Bob
Bob, Wow that bothers me about Aunt Catherine..............!! If so, "Lord delay your return till her heart softens." Sharon
Dear Sharon,
It did me, too, but the more I think about other scriptures today, the more I think it is corect. Love, Bob
Bob,
Me, too. However, I don't think that is the end of the prophecy, there is more; those numbers most likely mean something just as Ezekiel being on each side. Sharon
Question/comment from a friend: Lori,
Interesting.
However, Joseph Prince teaches that "we" are the Benjamin generation. (the church) And that 5does represent the no. of grace, associated with Benjamin. (and 5 times the favor) I believe your Uncle Bob, (maybe) turned off Joseph Prince's broadcast too soon, and didn't get the entire teaching. Okay, that is where the teaching of Joseph Prince leaves off, from what I've heard. I agree with that teaching. I dunno about the rest. interesting, though.
You may want to correct your Uncle Bob, about what Joseph Prince teachs, though.
Joseph Prince is an awesome Bible teacher, in my opinion.
and his response to that comment/question:
.... I understand that Prince teaches that we are the "Benjamin Generation," and I understand what he is saying and agree with him that we are the generation of grace; however, in his new small book The Benjamin Generation, Prince also says that Benjamin represents "grace" itself. On this point I think he is wrong.
Benjamin very clearly represents the church, which is given grace, just as Benjamin was given five times the food at the feast. Five again being the number for grace. Benjamin does not represent a personification of grace. There is a distinct difference. It is a minor one considering what Prince is trying to talk about, that being that we are the "grace" generation, which we are. However, it becomes a major point when trying to understand Biblical prophecy such as was given in the story in Judges. The two remnant groups of Benjaminites obviously represent our church and the tribulation church. The two groups do not represent different forms of grace. Grace is grace.
Once again, though, I will say that Joseph Prince is one of the very best around.
Love, Uncle Bob
I looked up the meaning of Benjamin, His original name was a little different, but his mom knowing she was dying after giving birth, called him, Benoni which means, Son of my sorrow. His dad later changed his name to Benjamin. Is there any significance of that story as it relates to the church? That would be cool. lori
from Uncle Bob: Dear Lori,
Yes, Jesus became the man of sorrow, which is why Benjamin could not have that name. The church is "His right hand," which is Benjamin, what Jacob named him.
Love, Uncle Bob
lisa;
Funny you should mention about intercessory prayer for our leaders. Lately I have been praying in my dreams (crazy as it may seem) for unsaved people and for those that God seems to be calling to come back to Him (in some cases whole people groups come to mind). I used to "pray the Psalms" and many that I memorized came to mind in my dream. I was not going to mention this before because it sounds so crazy. I get a real sense that he is doing a "last call" throughout the world. This is just my sense and not any that I have seen written about. I don't know what to make of it but I know in the dreams I must obey the commands to pray and it is what the Lord is desiring me to do.
It seems at this time that he is also doing a separation of the wheat and tares and this has been going on for some years now and is getting more intense. This is evident when we see the hatred toward those who follow closely with the Lord and those who follow their own path. It is really getting late and this no time to be walking after our own lusts.
Maranatha!
I just learned that Gov. Sarah Palin has requested that all Christians please pray the 27th Chapter of Psalms for this country and the elections everyday. I was watching a huge Church service on national TV and when it was announced, everyone began reading that psalm out loud. It was quite moving.
GT: I think you and I are sharing the same experience of praying while we sleep. I don't understand it either but my husband told me again this morning that I was praying loud enough that he could hear me during the night. I sleep in the other end of the house because we are like running water; he's cold and I'm, well, I am! So for him to hear me in his bedroom I have to be speaking way above a whisper. Of course, after years and years of public speaking, I have a megaphone voice except on the phone. I don't know how to whisper anymore. But I was not aware of praying and when I asked him what I was praying about he told me he couldn't understand a word I was saying. It sounded like I was speaking Portuguese. That is one language I don't speak!
As the times gets closer, it seems the heat gets turned up quite a bit and God does take drastic measures when HIS PEOPLE are called to pray. During the 9/11 crisis I remember waking up grieving so much that I hurt. It wasn't that I was scared of anything, but the heartbreak going on in this world was really hitting home and God called. I was not aware that I was praying except for the reports from hubby every morning. The only word I can remember focusing on at that time was 2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." But we didn't pray it in all honesty. We only prayed that God would take away the threat and then we allowed the liberal news media to torture, condemn and destroy the President of the USA. Have you all not read in God's word that HE ESTABLISHES RULERS, JUDGES, AND MEN IN HIGH OFFICES! Just as we all have the love of God in us, if we are truly saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, we know when evil shows its' ugly head. During that time, we began to have the same condemning words coming out of our mouths regarding Pres. Bush and cursing the work and power that was being used to protect us from our enemies.
Now this is to everyone: As Christians, we deserve to be awakened in the middle of the night to pray. It is probably the only way God can actually influence us to do so and to keep our own little selves out of the "Daddy, I want" equation. I remember a precious old gentleman asking us all to commit to praying for at least an hour before we retired for the day and I raised my hand to do so. I did pray but I don't think that I did so for an hour; maybe 15 to 20 minutes but not an hour.
But we will learn to pray and God's house will be called a house of prayer. That has some very serious undertones to me. Maybe we need to get focused on real intercession. Have any of you ever read Andrew Murray's "On Prayer"? It is a great book and many, many bible scholars have utilized this precious man's teaching in their own personal life. On page 502 in my copy, under point 6, Andrew says "With sin cast out, God's presence is restored. He states that securing God's Presence gives power to overcome all the works and designs of the enemy. The truth is so simple that the very ease with which we acquiesce to it robs sin of its power. If when God is with us, we are victorious, then the responsibility for defeat must lie in our hands. This means that some sin must be causing it. Therefore, we should immediately search out and put away any sin that besets us. But each of us has a solemn obligation to examine our own life to find out what part we may have in this evil.
God never speaks to His people about sin except with the purpose of saving them from it. The very same light that shows the sin will also show the way out of it."
He was demonstrating why some people can be used in interceding for others with great moves of God. There are some who believe that being an intercessor is a gift of the Holy Spirit but I truly believe that interceding for others is something we are all called to do. The Gifted Intercession seems to be for very special purposes related to the Church.
Now Marge and I both have loved the teaching of a wonderful pastor/teacher who has gone on to be with the Lord, Kenneth E. Hagin. Before any of you start rolling your eyes, remember, He was God's servant and I knew him personally. I loudly (remember megaphone voice) proclaim that he lived daily, purely and totally his life for the glory of God. He did it when no one was looking and he was one of the most humble men Anointed of God, that I have ever been blessed to know in my life time. But, my point and you had best listen, "it is IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE GOD WITHOUT FAITH IN GOD". If God said it, and I read it then it is the end of the subject~! He will do what he said he will do but you have to have faith first! Not in yourself but in God and what he said. But Pastor Hagin lived a life of prayer and faith. His teachings are some of the most profound I have ever read. Get past religion and start trusting God.
Remember, Jesus took on the Religious establishment and called them white washed sepulchers and other such beautiful word pictures.
Does the word Laodicean mean anything to you?
Grany
grany;
I think you are right about the "Daddy I want" prayer. Maybe that is why I pray in my sleep, my waking prayers seem to go towards the "me" type of prayer (although the Lord does steer me back).
Intecessory prayer is the least selfish and most "heart of God" type of prayer. I don't think that one of us would be here if someone, known or unknown, had not prayed for us. And of course the Lord himself prayed to the Father for all those that the Father had given to Him!! So should we do any less!!
One other thing that has crossed my mind in these times. I Know the Lord will use the hard times ahead to draw everyone closer and also draw those that would not normally
even think of Him to come to Him. I believe this is the reason these things are occuring. He will use it as a winnowing(sp) process. Any thoughts on this?
Maranatha!
Grany,
Who are you mad at? Why are you yelling?
Anomy #2
anony #2
I'm not mad just couldn't get the caps off of my keyboard again. I have something called sticky keys and for the life of me, I cannot disengage it. I have to shut down the computer most of the time but this time I did a new thing, hit refresh and it took it away. Then I promptly forgot to change it to lower case.
I am getting a new keyboard tomorrow and not near soon enough. Thanks for caring.
Grany
Grany,
Excellent post!
Some additional thoughts about Kenenth E. Hagin.
1. don't pay any atttention to what so-and-so said, that Kenneth Hagin said. There have been quite a few things taken out of context. You need to hear his entire teaching, before you arrive at any honest opinion.
2. New Age. NO! Kenneth Hagin NEVER taught New Age. However, there are some ripped-off New Age teachings, that come directly from the Bible. It's the same old thing, about rat poison being 99% pure grain, and only 1% poison. So, before you make any false accusations, you need to exam Kenneth Hagin's teaching, in light of the Bible.
I wished I could have met Kenneth Hagin! But, I intend to meet him someday. What a man of Faith!
A little story I heard about Kenneth Hagin, that I found amusing. (it was during his Homegoing Service, in fact) One of his students had taught him how to swim, as he hadn't learned to swim in his younger years. (he was on a death bed as a youth, and God raised him up!) Anyhow, one day this younger man (don't recall his name) came into his office, and Kenneth Hagin was looking at an article about himself. (negitive, unfortunately) He read a few sentences to this younger man, then looked up, smiled, and said, "it's sad, isn't it?" Then he said, "let's go swim :)"
I agree, Grany. It's time to clean our own front doorsteps. Amen, to that!
Revival begins at home.
Has anyone gotten an update on Alesia and her daughter yet?
Anomy #2
Mac, how is Alesia and daughter?
Alesia's dughter is much better but Alesia is still quite sick.
Thank you for asking.
Be good. (old Aussie expression)
We will continue with our prayers for Alesia, and praise God that her daughter is better.
That must have been scarey.
Mac, if you ever decide to read or recite anything, let us know. I, for one, would love to hear your voice speak, as I assume you have one of those accents. :)
Mac, funny thing that you should tell me to be good. I struggle with it everyday and sometimes I just have to hang out with Hyde but my place is in the Cherokee hills of Okieland. You have no idea how good I am at escape! But I am very concerned about Alesia and when you talk with her tell her that we are all praying for her healing by the Stripes of Jesus Christ, please. Thank you kind sir.
Grnay
Nate, great material. Thanks for posting it. Sir Isaac Newton is one of my favorite history figures and the subject of my thesis. He did love God greatly and did strive to know Him personally.
Good night everyone and have a blessed week in the Lord.
Grany
Grany, I struggle too - every single day! Thanks for your prayers for Alesia; she has been very sick but is getting a little better. She's also swamped at work, so her illness couldn't have come at a worse time. But I'll let her know you're all praying for her.
Thanks, Nate, that was an intriguing post.
I've always loved the writings of K. Hagin.
The dream mentioned about the rapture and looking around for loved ones reminded me of the destruction of Sodom and Gommorah and the deliverance of Lot's family.
Will there be any danger of us looking around for loved ones as there was danger for Lot's wife?
I know it's a weird thought, but then again, we are a peculiar people.
Lori, I had to run out before I could post this but in regards to the "times of the Gentiles."
(**Thanks for bringing that to mind-I really had to re-think what I hear people tell me it is and what I actually think it is. Most subscribe to the belief that it's the dispensation of the Church up to the point of the rapture but I don't think so since my view is Pre-Trib.)
Luke 21:20-24 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (21) Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. (22) For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (23) But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. (24) And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months .
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
I think it means that God will not return and set up His kingdom in Jerusalem until the 2nd Coming of Christ. The 2nd Coming is the end of the times of the Gentiles.
Rome had taken 3.5 years to tread down Jerusalem in the past and the Anti-Christ's empire will also have 3.5 years to do the same.(Revived Roman Empire-Head of apostate Christianity or ?)
Israel will still be trampled after the Anti-Christ sets up shop & will likely still use the Gentiles to trample it. I think the Bible says Jesus won't come back for Israel until : Luke 13:35 Behold, your house is left to you desolate; and I say to you, you will not see Me until the time comes when you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'"
***On the track of your Uncle
BTW-there is no way I would have got that parallel since I don't have that throughout knowledge of all the OT stories to connect all those dots. (I guess that's why we are suppose to study to be approved.)
But three thoughts on that.
#1 The Churches of Revelation. There is a remnant out of the Corrupt,Dead,& Faithful churches which are spared from God's wrath.
The others are told to "Overcome" & they will be saved.
#2. They are Myrters & Christ followers who don't take the mark in the Trib who the Anti-Christ goes after when he can't get the 144,000 protected by God.
3#. This is the one that gets me:
2Thesalonians 2:11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie
2Thesalonians 2:12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spoke, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
This "Delusion" certainly fits into Uncle Bob's theory but I guess it depends upon the timing of which it is sent. Maybe there will still be some period of time in the Trib for true repentance beforehand for the "overcomers." Let's pray.
That's all I can think of right now. (:
Some really good thought on "the Delusion."
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord Video
This one gave me something to think about:
Mc.Cain & Susan Palin. How can they walk together Unless they agreed? by Pastor Chuck Baldwin
Glad to hear that Alesia's daughter is doing better. Alesia you are in my prayers!
****I want to remind you that Jennifer is having the C section tomorrow at 8:30 AM PST and the baby will go into surgery for a shunt and spinal surgery immediately. We covet your prayers.****
That is incredible about Geoff!!
All day long I have thought about Hebrews 11... Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Thanks for sending me that devotional too Marge! It is exactly what I have been pondering in my heart. God is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Grace
Jim G., Shalom! Thanks for the link to the NIV version of Psalm 27. I have to admit, though, that I prefer the NAB version better. Verse 2 in the NAB, "When evildoers come at me to devour my flesh, These my enemies and foes themselves stumble and fall." just sounds, I don't know, ... churchier.
(Of course it could be that one of the readings this Sunday was Isaiah 55:6-9, and this psalm reminds me of that scripture:
Seek the LORD while he may be found,
call him while he is near.
Let the scoundrel forsake his way,
and the wicked his thoughts;
let him turn to the LORD for mercy;
to our God, who is generous in forgiving.
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
As high as the heavens are above the earth,
so high are my ways above your ways
and my thoughts above your thoughts.
)
While I am sure there must be differnt thoughts on the Time of the Gentiles, I too have been taught tht the Time of the Fwentiles ends with His second comeing at the Mt of Olives.
Interesting that you wrote about the book of Daniel, Nate, as I have been studying that Book once again.
Daniel is the Book that introduces the term Time of the Gentiles....and in this book Daniel lays out the calendar for the Gentile world.
I plan to spend time looking over the info you wrote about in your post so that I can understand it clearly.
I do not know much about Newton....other than some of his theories/teachings...and will put learing more about him and his work on my to do list, too.
Have a great day!
New post @ Joels. OLMERT CALLS PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN BIBLE PROPHESY DELUSIONAL
***We already knew that didn't we? Otherwise he would not DARE to divide the land of Israel.
Thanks so much for all your concern & prayers!!!
My daughter is doing much better, Praise God. When she went to the hospital, her oxygen level was in the low 50's! Only after a shot of steroids, 4 breathing treatments & oxygen for several hours did it start rising.
I was absolutely useless as I was full blown sick as well. I really just wanted to crawl into the bed with her!
But we're now both slowly on the road to recovery.
Thanks again - love to you all.
Lori
to an extent I can take what your uncle said a little further. I remember being VERY startled when I read of ANYONE other than the 144000 coming to Christ after the Rapture as described in the Left Behind books. I was taught the first time I was interested in eschatology, or was at least under the impression, that no one other than the 144000 would come to Christ during the Tribulation. so what your uncle says in a sense is "old news" to me.
my conclusion after looking in to this was
1-if one considers the saints in Revelation crying out for justice to be Tribulation saints, the fact that they can not be numbered would argue against only Jews being saved. We know from other passages that only 1/3 of the Jews will be saved (and currently a number can be placed on the number of Jews living throughout the world) and unless we're going to count everyone who potentially has a hint of Jewish blood in that 1/3 (those who don't know that ethnically they have Jewish roots) I am at a loss as to what to do with that particular passage without getting into preterism (ie that those saints represent all the martyred saints throughout history)
2-the spreading of the gospel during the early church ie when it was carried to the world by Jews, there was phenomenal, exponential growth of what became the church. Because the Jews rejected Christ the mantle of claiming the world for Christ then fell to the gentiles. I think the anecdote that Joel tells of his dad thinking he was the first Jew since Paul to be a Christian speaks to this. Quite frankly with a few exceptions-such as the Great Awakening-the gentiles have been not nearly as effective as the early Jewish missionaries. Can you imagine what 144,00 Pauls would do for Christ? Perhaps the time of the gentiles means nothing more or less than we will be removed from our inability to win the world for Christ and those who should have been evangelizing will now take over?
Donna
I used to sail when I was younger also and a "jib" is part of a sail boat as well. :-) and I got quite a chuckle out of the rest of your post.
Anony #1
well you got the round part right :-)
Grace - please keep us posted about Jennifer's baby girl. Still praying.
Donna - Yep, he does have an awesome aussie voice!
Lori - awesome, awesome news about Geoff!!!
Jib,
Good closing thought about the 144,000 "Pauls" (possibly) being the end of the time of the gentiles!
Grace,
You're very welcome! Joseph Prince is an awesome Bible teacher!
Alesia,
GREAT news about you, and your daughter feeling better! May you recover in record "God speed!"
Have a good day, and God bless all!
I have read a few editorials from Christian commentators that have all used verses generally applied to marriage and church fellowship to say that Palin is committing a grave sin in being "unequally yoked" to McCain as his VP. On the premise that McCain is not a christian, when did it become non-biblical to go to work for a non Christian in any capacity? She's running as his VP-not going to marry him, not going to church with him, they will be running a country together. I'm afraid I don't see the difference in running a country with a non Christian and running a business with a non christian or being employed by a non christian. If folks are going to start using scripture generally held to refer to two other relationships for business then there are a whole heap of Christians across the country committing the same sin as Sarah Palin.
Alesia
great to hear both of you are better. we should continue to pray for them.
I've posted a link to this before but think it is worth re-posting. This link is a completely new thing for me and very mind bending to say the least for me. It is a post about eternity and Christ's 6 hours of the cross being sacrificed for our sin by Dolphin Lambert. Well worth reading
6 hours on the cross for eternity
I should say I don't know how much of it I agree with or not but it has really given me pause for thought trying to think through the whole thing and all it's ramifications and how it should impact on my life.
Shalom, all! Today is an equinox, and I thought you might be interested in some sun photos related to that:
… all things being equal…
<><
Here is an update from Susan, Jennifer and the baby~~
I heard from Susan a few minutes ago and there is some very good news!
The baby is in surgery now. God has so had His hand on this whole thing.
First of all, they guessed the baby would weigh about 7 lbs 2 oz but....she weighed 9 lbs and 2 oz which is great! They checked her out and she is very healthy!
Jennifer and Susan both got to see the baby. Susan said she looked right at her and her family and started crying!! LOL!! The nurse said that she had some great news...that baby was wiggling her legs!
They are in surgery removing the cyst on the spine and closing the hole that is allowing the spinal fluid to leak out. The doctors said that in 29 years of surgery experience that they have not seen a cyst that large.
The cyst she has is talking about is the one on her back at the spine.
The water on the brain may not be as bad as they thought. They said that they may not even have to do the shunt on her! At least for now.
One of her little feet was pushed in an upward position but the nurse said that physical therapy will most likely fix that.
Susan said that her entire family was at total peace during the whole procedure and that they were very aware of God's hand on all of it.
They also did not have to do the double incision on Jennifer during the C-section which is so good. She said Jennifer is just happy as a lark and doing really well.
I will hear more when the baby is out of surgery and update you more.
Most of all, Susan wants me to personally thank each and every person who has prayed and are continuing to pray. It means everything to her.
Please continue to pray! She should be out of surgery in a few hours and I will update you more then.
Bless every of you!
Grace
We were informed by 2nd and 3rd line management today that my boss has another job opportunity that he wants to explore, so he will not be back.
Please pray that God will send the right manager for our facility.
I would love it if they sent a conservative!
Is that too much to ask?
I was somewhat suprised to read this about Zola Levitt but then I've hadn't done a background check either.
Zola Levitt (1939-2006)
General Teachings/Activities
I skimmed the article about Zola Levitt, and clearly someone has an axe to gring with Zola, IMHO.
Just to discuss one item. And that's concerning the theory of "old earth," and the closing arguments that this article contains.
Go to reasonstobelieve.org, (Hugh Ross) and you will find out that this is NOT what Chrisitans, that beleive in an old earth, believe. It's pure baloney! I should know, because I ARE an old earth believer!
I'd really think twice before making any false assumptions about Zola Levitt. Hey, he was human. So are the rest of us, the last time I checked. I have some of his teaching materials, and heard many of his T.V. programs. I've never heard anything that was taken out of context, or wasn't purely based on the Bible on either his teaching materials, or his T.V. programs.
Anyway, be careful what you say, or for that matter post. If it isn't 100% truth, it's a lie.
Remember the rat poison? 99% pure grain, and 1% poison. It kills all the same.
Germany and UK want global financial regulator
Venezuela to buy Chinese combat planes: Chavez
Spies Warn That Al Qaeda Aims for October Surprise
Military intelligence: Iran halfway to first nuclear bomb
UN protestors: Stop Iran
Syria deploys troops near border
Syrian troop build-up worries Beirut "...military experts who requested anonymity doubted a country would deploy 8,000 or 10,000 troops just to stop smuggling on its borders."
N.Korea asks U.N. to back off from nuclear site: IAEA
UN votes to extend NATO-led force in Afghanistan
Can an Israeli-U.S. company save the world's dying bees
Former IAF official: Israel will face 'rain' of rockets in future war
China paper urges new currency order after "financial tsunami
Senate Boosts Funding for Laser Weapons
Surprise spring snowfalls blanket KZN , city in S. Africa
I just talked with Susan again this afternoon. They have named the baby Kaitlynn Lorraine!
She said the baby is out of surgery and in intensive care. She came through the surgery with flying colors. Everything went absolutely perfectly.
After they removed the cyst the spina bifida is only about an inch long. The doctor said the size of the cyst was actually a blessing because it gave them so much more skin to work with.
They are so excited because when you tickle the baby's feet she wiggles them. Alot of times it is just hip movement but she is moving her feet and legs.
And....that little upturned foot has resumed the correct position already.
They did not have to shunt her. Please be praying about that. They will be checking her on Wednesday and Friday to see if they will still need to do it.
Susan said that there was total peace and absolute smoothness throughout everything. They were even able to get the baby into surgery much earlier than anticipated because of a cancellation.
Jennifer's husband has been able to be in with the baby and has taken a ton of pictures to show Jen. They will send them to me as soon as things settle down.
Susan's faith is soaring. She is so grateful to the Lord and has repeatedly told me to tell all of you for your prayers and continued prayer support. Please be praying that God will heal any residual fluid on her brain so that the shunt will not be necessary.
I will let you know of any more news. God is soooooooooo good. He has touched this situation so clearly.
Thank you from me and God bless you all!
Grace
Prsise God from whom all blessings flow.
Praise Father, Son and Holy Ghost!
Praise!
I'm with Marge on Zola. He will be well rewarded by the Lord! Even Chuck Missler gets a hiding from some of these Discernment Ministries and I owe him a great debt. And poor old Hal Lindsey and pretribbers in general - aren’t we all deluded escapists following a satanic teaching originating from MM?
I find some of these Discernment Ministries often get very negative in the way they present their cases, even if it’s factual. I’d hate to be a high profile teacher – it’s easy to criticize and, conversely, difficult to teach the truth. No doubt one can find some website, somewhere, that will find something wrong with Spurgeon too.
But, Marge - old age earth? Now that is heretical! ;-)
Hebrew Calendar Primer
Interesting!
Hi Nate, interesting article on Newton. I've referenced before his work on Daniel. I have a copy I've read twice, and haven't yet gotten the part about the Jubilee return of the Lord. I guess I'll have to re-read it again. He was an amazing mind and a great argument that science and literal biblical interpretation can co-exist logically. He was known to solve math problems overnight that doctoral mathematicians on the continent has been working on for months.
See you all soon,
In His Grip,
Scott
Grace - That is absolutely fantastic news!!!!!
Please let her know she & the babes continue to be in our prayers.
Praise God.
Should I put a disclaimer on what I post that I don't necessarily agree with what is stated?
If I agree I say so. If I don't or am not sure I say nothing. In fact I have the "Levitt Letter" sitting here on my desk.
But "if" Zolet was involved & supporting the Ecumenical Movement (unification of religious beliefs) then warning bells sound off for me.
As far as the Old Earth theory I don't know enough about it to comment other than I believe in a literal 6 day creation cycle. It would be nice to know more about this theory if you’re so inclined.
After a little further looking at the bone picking author and some of what he wrote I agree with & other things he wrote I don't.(ie:He thinks the gifts of the Spirit had gradually ceased.)That seems to be the case with most of the things I've been reading lately.
I'm as perplexed as anyone as to why if we are all filled with the same Holy Spirit we come up with different Christian beliefs. It just may be our life experiences, influences, & how well we listen when the Holy Spirit prompts us. I wish a loud voice from heaven would shout down and say "Hey there-you've got it all wrong-look @ this!"
So all I can do is follow the Holy Spirit the best I can and rely on God to make sure I stay on the proper path because I surely won't succeed relying upon myself. He knows I'm counting on Him 100% & I have faith that He'll lead me though all these end time deceptions. There has been many a great preacher/teacher who has veered off course later in their ministry.
So if the rule is that we have to agree 100% with whatever post we link here then that's fine. My contributions will probably fall by 90%. Maybe that's actually a good thing.
Grace,
So happy to hear the news about
Kaitlynn Lorraine! My eldest daughter's name is Lorraine and her best friend is named Kaitlynn.
**I'll never forget that name (:
Lori,
I just received your uncle Bob's book "Unlocking God's Secrets" and can't wait to read it!
Knowing of and sharing Zola Levite was a highlight of my life. That article is written by a man who condemns all who do not believe as he does. Go to this link and see the articles of faith that is listed there.
www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/sof.htm.
I agree with Marge and Mac Lisa. I believe we can all find the negative dialogues out there on the internet quite easily but I, for one, am more interested in a Good report, which is the direction that God's scripture takes us. Also, we are not to be slanderers or giving an ill report of others. Beings I was there when the Ecumenical movement began and it was widely accepted by most of the religious bodies, it seems strange that this minister picked Zola out to condemn. Especially after Zola's death when he cannot defend his self.
I have more important things to do with my life than jump in the trash can looking for dirt in some one elses life.
Grany
Concerning teachers and false teaching.
I think the focus should be on what a person teaches (how closely does it match the intent of scripture or what God is trying to communicate). This of course involves correct interpretation of the whole Word of God. Most, if not all "off the track teaching" involves focusing on only a part of scripture or over emphasizing one part over another or misapplying scripture to an area that it is not refering to. If you look at the different cults and false teaching and their beliefs you see this over and over again.
I said all this to say that Zola may have done or believed certain things that were questionable but I have reviewed many of his programs and teachings and he did not display any of these traits in his teachings. He stuck to the whole Word in his teachings (even if his focus was eschatology) and had a huge heart for seeing his fellow Jews come to Jesus. The fruit of the Spirit was displayed in his life.
The attacks on Zola seemed to be more of a personal nature then about what he taught. I am not intending to be critical about the posting (lisa) but I am suspect of the person who wrote the attack.
Maranatha!
Grace, that is wonderful news and I am still praying for them all. I got very excited reading the report and still humming my praises to a loving and generous Father.
Alesia, welcome back to the living! Good to see you posting.
JIM C. that picture was very interesting. Wonder if Spring time in the Southern Hemisphere is going to be peaceful.
I found a brand new keyboard in my computer room that was still wrapped and I am trying to get used to it now. My little Geek friend is going to try repairing my other one as it is my favorite and was not just a regular keyboard. My old, trusted one is the favorite of all time and Microsoft doesn't even make it anymore.
I now have my shofar but I won't be blowing it. I have a wonderful recording of the shofar being blown in Jerusalem back at their Jubilee in the 90's and it makes shivers run up and down my spine. I also witnessed Phil Driscoll blowing the shofar at a Christian meeting and he was actually making it sound wonderful. He went through all of the levels the Jewish men go through when they blow the shofar at Rosh Hashanah. So, rather than making a strange noise to the Lord and impeding his return, I will play my recording, hold up the horn I brought back from Israel and say "Come Lord Jesus, I am waiting for you with great Joy and anticipation".
Grany
I play to play a recording of it, too.
Grany, are you going to explain to Jim what the recording is all about, or just play it without saying anything about it?
Just wondering how I should handle it and thought I'd ask.
Grace, how wonderful that all has gone well! Thank you, Lord!
Ok now you all have me curious about Jubilee.
Does anyone have any suggestions re: where I can find some decent info about it?
I'm familiar with the description in Leviticus. I was looking for info about when it is supposed to take place in modern times.
From what I can tell its controversial (surprise-surprise) but thought maybe someone out there could point me to some info about it.
There is so much inaccurate stuff out there, I hate to waste my time sifting thru it all.
Thanks.
"Donna - Yep, he does have an awesome aussie voice!"
Hahahahahahaha...that's if you think someone who doesn't pronounce his r's sounds OK. Has Alesia mentioned his lithp?...vewy scarwy.
I had better go away now.
Mr. Hyde, do your fingers have a cold or sumptin?
DONNA, I am going to be real brave and wake Jim up with the recording and all the while I will be outside on the patio lifting my shofar! Jim wakes up really, really well! As long as I am outside that is! LOL
@;o}
As to your question about Jublilee there are several places on the internet about it but I will get you the links so you can avoid the trashy ones.
Grany
BTW, Lisa, please don’t think I was having a dig at you. I am reliably informed by a special someone that sometimes I need to clarify my statements.
I do pay attention to what these Discernment Ministries say and I think we do need to have discernment – I just sometimes wish they’d use some too. I noted that the author mentions Zola’s divorce and that he changed his church. Yet we are given no other info, and it is implied that by Zola doing this; it is somehow wrong, without knowing his personal circumstances. As for the ecumenism participation, I know that Zola spoke out against this movement. I can’t comment further without checking what he spoke about at that particular conference. He may have been merely teaching THE GOSPEL.
Just recently on Slice of Laodicea and Apprising ministries, Ray Comfort was firmly taken to task for speaking at a Word of Faith conference. Ray defended his actions by saying he is preaching the Gospel whenever and wherever he gets the chance to do so. But that did not sit well with Ingrid and Ken. As far as they were concerned, he needed to be taken to task because he wasn’t speaking out enough against WoF, irrespective of the fact that he was using the venue to teach the Gospel. Regardless of what I think of WoF, I find that sad.
Donna: Here is a partial list
www.jcpa.org/jl/vp393.htm
www.christian-witness.org/archives/cetf2006/jubilee36.html
net.bible.org/dictionary.php?word=Jubilee+Year
and then this one where you can search all kinds of information.
http://judaism.about.com/
On this site there is a topic on Jubilee.
But Donna, type Jewish Jubilee in your search engine box, top of the browser for me, and then hit enter on your keyboard. That will take you to a listing of every site there is concerning Jewish Jubilee on the internet. If I am not mistaken, Dr. Walvoord has an article about it too.
Grany
No matter what group is involved, there will always be excesses and unrealistic mind sets. Happens! Sad, yes; unavoidable? Not until Jesus gets here for the 1000 year reign. He was the only perfect one and they crucified him too. Now we just do it with our mouth and our stinkin thinkin. Does that excuse us? No but life goes on and so does condemnation of things we really know nothing about, don't know enough about or don't agree with. There is also the problem of assumption!
Grany
Grany; regarding this shofar - are we all blowing at the same time?
Should we all be sychronizing to a specific world time?
haha you all are too funny!
Thanks for the info and links!
<><
Lisa and others
I didn't read the article, don't intend to read the article given the comments made about the article, don't really know much about Zola except what I have gleaned from postings at joel's back when he passed away. Given that as a pretext however
1-i do agree with Lisa on the 100% rule however-it seems a bit excessive and overdone and if that is the standard to which we want to hold ourselves for all things truth be told none of us are going to be posting all that much.
2-If the article she linked to does trash Levitt unfairly it at least to me did not appear to be intentional on Lisa's part since I got the impression from her second post she really isn't all that familiar with who he is and what he did.
3-a disclaimer isn't a bad idea if it is something or someone with whom you are unfamiliar and are seeking further knowledge.
i have to go work some more.
I nearly forgot. Jim G, thanks for linking that Psalm earlier:
Psalm 27
1 The LORD is my light and my salvation—
whom shall I fear?
The LORD is the stronghold of my life—
of whom shall I be afraid?
2 When evil men advance against me
to devour my flesh, [a]
when my enemies and my foes attack me,
they will stumble and fall.
3 Though an army besiege me,
my heart will not fear;
though war break out against me,
even then will I be confident.
4 One thing I ask of the LORD,
this is what I seek:
that I may dwell in the house of the LORD
all the days of my life,
to gaze upon the beauty of the LORD
and to seek him in his temple.
5 For in the day of trouble
he will keep me safe in his dwelling;
he will hide me in the shelter of his tabernacle
and set me high upon a rock.
6 Then my head will be exalted
above the enemies who surround me;
at his tabernacle will I sacrifice with shouts of joy;
I will sing and make music to the LORD.
7 Hear my voice when I call, O LORD;
be merciful to me and answer me.
8 My heart says of you, "Seek his [b] face!"
Your face, LORD, I will seek.
9 Do not hide your face from me,
do not turn your servant away in anger;
you have been my helper.
Do not reject me or forsake me,
O God my Savior.
10 Though my father and mother forsake me,
the LORD will receive me.
11 Teach me your way, O LORD;
lead me in a straight path
because of my oppressors.
12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes,
for false witnesses rise up against me,
breathing out violence.
13 I am still confident of this:
I will see the goodness of the LORD
in the land of the living.
14 Wait for the LORD;
be strong and take heart
and wait for the LORD.
China paper urges new currency order after "financial tsunami"
"The world urgently needs to create a diversified currency and financial system and fair and just financial order that is not dependent on the United States."
Lisa and Joyce,
I apologize for over reacting.
This is a blog that respects free speech. So do I.
However, I respect Zola Levitt's memory, and his ministry. Which is still going on in his absence.
The reference to being 100% correct wasn't offered as a rule. Only a reminder about poison.
Again, I'm sorry if anyone took offense.
God bless, and continue on :)
P.S. If anyone is interested in learning about old earth, go to:
reasonstobelieve.com
It's Hugh Ross's ministry.
New post is up.
Everyone have a God-blessed day!
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