Tuesday, March 25, 2008
Hebrews 10:19-25
Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
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151 comments:
Me first - I cheat!
Thank you, Jim, I am now awake, prepared, and know the truth thanks to the Ultimate Conspiracy link. I was living in a fog until now. No one will ever deceive me again. ;-)
Everyone else, you'll have to look for the link on the last post. Then you, too, can be enlightened.
Here, Anne, I'll post it again:
Hey, Everybody! WAKE UP! You REALLY need to read this RIGHT NOW, if you're going to be prepared!
The Ultimate Conspiracy Theory
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nice selection and how appropriate
Jim
waaaay to funny!
You know, if Joel doesn't enable comments soon, we could set up an unofficial Joel Rosenberg mirror site that will be visible on a Google search. That way we could still witness yet have the power to delete comments - and still maintain the solitude of the cave.
Just a thought.
Okay, Jim, that was just about the weirdest thing I've read in two years.
I wonder where Frosty's fit into all that?
Thanks Jim, good laugh! I agree Nate, way too much time.
Nate, please gives us a quick preview of the book and what made you take a step back?
Alesia - That's a confirmed cheat!!!!!!! Nice post though.
Thanks
jeri
Here's an excerpt from Nephilim Stargate.
http://www.ahrimangate.com/excerpt148.htm
Sorry, no time to blue link.
Nate, I'd like to hear how it changed your view, also.
Joel has a new post, though still no comments
Thanks for the web site, Anne!
Nate very interesting post, with lots to chew on. Thanks. I had not really delved into the spiritual side of our Christian walk but you have opened up something that will need plenty of prayer, study, meditation and thought. I will need to pick your fine brain on some aspects, if you don't mind and anyone else's if they care to comment.
Nate, a friend of mine sent me a devotion that goes right along with what you posted... I like the policeman analogy. lori
You Must Control The Devil
JAMES 4:7 NKJ
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee
from you.
Most believers expect God to control the devil, but God gave
you that responsibility.
EPHESIANS 4:27 NKJ
27 nor give place to the devil.
Would God tell you not to let the devil have any place, if you
had no say about it? If the devil does have a place in your
affairs, it's because you allow it.
The devil will take over -- if you let him.
Jesus won the victory. It legally belongs to you. But the devil
is a criminal, who doesn't obey the law unless forced to. You
must enforce Jesus' victory and Lordship in the situations of
life, or the devil will take control by default.
No human being, in themselves, is any match for the devil. So
you can't resist him in your own ability or name. You are not
more powerful than the devil, but you do have more authority as
a believer in Jesus Christ.
Just as a policeman in uniform has the backing of the entire
government and all its forces, so believers have the backing of
God and all His forces, when we stand against the devil in
Jesus' Name.
God gave you authority to resist the devil, and expects you to
use it. If you disobey God by not using it, things will not go
very well in your life.
Praying to God to stop the devil's operations is no different
than my son asking me to take out the trash, after I told him
to do it.
God told us to resist the devil and he would flee. We must
believe and act on God's Word.
SAY THIS: I will resist the devil and he will flee from me.
Nate,
Have you read "Nephilim and the Pyramid: Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse"?
While I thought the "Stargate" book was good, I found the "Pyramid" one even better.
The Bible says in Ephesians 4:27 not to give place to the devil (or his demonic cohorts).
It also says in James 4:7 that we are to resist the devil, and make him flee from us in terror.
Furthermore, it says in Philippians 4:8:
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things.
I think that there is a danger that we could be lead astray by all this discussion and thinking on demons, nephillim (=giants), UFOs, visiting beings from outer space.
Remember, the devil's only tool against the Church is that of deception - getting us to think and speak things that are not of the Word.
Anything we say has an impact on our world - to summarize Mark 11:23 - we will get what we say, or as Proverbs 18:21 puts it, the tongue has the power of life and death (See also James 3:5-12). I believe God had the writer of Proverbs write that because it is absolutely true - we can bring about life or death, even physical death, by what comes out of our mouth.
Furthermore, what comes out of our mouths is indicative of what is in our hearts (innermost beings), as Jesus said in Matthew 15:19:
“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.
and in Luke 6:45:
“A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
I think that there is a danger that we might be distracted and led astray by going off on bunny trails concerning the emergence or appearance of "alien beings" during the end-times - it's obviously a fascination amongst the New-Agers - much of their "theology" is wrapped up in this type of stuff.
From that fact alone, I would counsel that we be very careful about pursuing knowledge and understanding in this area. I am sure the enemy would love to distract us from thinking and meditating on the Word.
My belief is that as we get greater revelation of the Word and what it says about these ties, that the truths we will learn are going to far more mind-blowing and exciting than anything the enemy can dream up to distract us.
There is so much we don't know, yet, concerning the days we live in, and the very soon coming return of the Lord. The Bible has everything we need to know, and I do not believe it says we need to concern ourselves about aliens, UFOs, stargates and all the other demonic activities and manifestations that seem to be growing in strength and power in these last days, rather that we should focus on God, what the Word says, and making sure we are fulfilling our own personal destiny that God has called us to.
Anyway, that's my 2-kopeks worth.
Love you guys in the Lord,
John
John,
I understand what you are saying, I do.
These books are specifically warning you of the threat to be lead astray in the end times. I've found that they may have shed light on unknown things of the world, how they may come to light at the end & how we should beware.
I think it IS important to know the crazy things that are being said by new agers & discuss them with fellow Christians. We may be led astray if we DON'T.
For instance, on the surface, Opray Winfrey's garbage may sound appealing to some. I've personally given my daughter self-help books "Purpose driven life", etc. (several years ago)
This may be one of the only times I say this, but, I'm glad my daughter is not much of a reader, for she never read any of them!
My point is: We should be aware of ungodly things in our world. How else are we to do battle against them, steer clear & be knowledgeable enough to help others not get sucked into them?
I may be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but that's what I think about it.
Mac, I think creating that kind of site is a great idea! Some sort of end time discussion group.
Lori, yes, we are clearly taught to flee the devil.
Also thank you for your congrats on my daughter and the job. And Jim, it was extra touching hearing that from you, espec since you are going thru your own employment concerns. Thank you.
I have to admit I have not read any of Joels fiction books. I have Epicenter and am looking forward for his next non-fiction book thats in the works.
I'm going to read Deadheat, from what you all have said it sounds fabulous. But wondered, should I start with his other fiction books first? OR can Dead heat stand alone? Are they a series?
Also, personally I agree with what John said on his last post.
Donna,
The books are a series.
Dead Heat may stand on it's own, but, would be much better if you had read all the other books first.
Honestly, Dead Heat was my least favorite. While it was good, especially beginning & end, the middle, not so much. The other books were much more fast paced. IMO
Donna, I agree you should read the others first to get the most out of Dead Heat. I personally liked Ezekiel Option the best, and that was the first I read. You can get the gist from reading only one (like EO), and you will be able to follow the story in Dead Heat if you don't read any of the previous. But, you will understand the development of the characters so much better and understand the references to other things (such as Morechi (sp?)).
IMO, knowing the history of Jon & Erin is important but not essential.
Thanks for all you input on my "creation" situation. I've been in the middle of "Dead Heat."
I have to tell you-the major necular attacks on the US part really got me upset. Not that it's not possible-my vivid mind just recreates the senario and it makes me sick to envision.
Boatman:
Interesting view.I believe that God had created things before Adam came into the picture. Obvious example being the spirit beings and heavenly places.
As far as our solar heavens and earth are concerned-I had never heard that it could possibly had already been here and was remodeled for God's new creation Adam.
I went over the scriptures. I just don't know if my mind can stretch that far. I'm really the literal type.
I always appreciate your input! In my looking things up I ran across this article:
Gap Theory Biblically Speaking
Lisa
Lori, You said it babe and I agree wholeheartedly! In the scriptures the Holy Spirit inspired a man to write and form a solid base within each of us that the Name of Jesus is powerful and mighty and acknowledged by God and his heavenly hosts to respond and cause an effective reaction to our pleas. Only the Name of Jesus has the power to heal, deliver, protect, and most importantly, save by salvation. HIS NAME IS ABOVE ALL NAMES! In heaven, on earth and below the earth. The Gates of Hell cannot prevail against the believers in that Name. It would do you all a great deal of powerful good to read a book, "THE NAME OF JESUS" by Kenneth E. Hagin.
Now, before any of you wonderful and loved people turn your noses up let me tell you something that I know personally and first hand. I lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma during the early 70's and worked for a precious psychiatrist that greatly admired and respected Kenneth Hagin and his ministry. Kenneth Hagin lived a true Christian life for all of the world to see and he was a very trustworthy human being. His life as a Believers in Yahusha, until the day he took the Savior's hand in heaven, was in harmony with the Gospel and word of God. I knew him and never once did I ever witness a side step or deviation from his revered scriptures. He admonished the extreme preachers of prosperity in a book he wrote in the 90's. He took them to task biblically and soundly. He tolerated no breach in God's word and defended the faith that God is God and there is none like Him.
You have all of the power you need and you have all of the revelation you need in God's word. Men who write books that captivate and deter you from the word of God are working out of their own imaginations.
JOHN: I AGREE WITH YOU COMPLETELY!
You guys are getting blinded by an enemy of your soul and it is time to sound the alarm. John is telling you the truth, Lori is telling you the truth and now, I am the third witness to tell you the truth.
You want to know when something is evil and of the devil? Learn to listen to the Holy Spirit who is within you and stop calling him an "it" or a "feeling". The Holy Spirit was given to all Believers by God after Christ ascended into heaven to take his place at the right hand of Abba Father. You know how we knew when "T" came onto the blog? The Holy Spirit. It wasn't the person of "T" it was the spirit that was posting through her. If you listen you will know. The hair on the back of my head stood up and waved when I read her first comments as an anonymous poster.
Remember that wonderful bliss you felt when you were first saved? That love portion you had to share with everyone and yet you were afraid in some cases to say anything. You probably thought, well I will just live out my new faith in front of them then they will know and I won't offend them by saying anything. SURPRISE! The common thought process was not of God! You got robbed of sharing the Gospel's great news and it was the first step in keeping silence. Jesus told us to go and tell! He even said to make disciples of them all. A disciple is one who is learning. You teachers out there, how long would you keep your jobs if you kept silence?
I don't give two hoots about the Nephs or demons or earthquakes or terrorist! They are all under my feet because Jesus Christ lives in me and he is all powerful. My eyes are his eyes and they are healing because I let my guard down and confessed that my eyes were tired and hurt.
Quit being silly gooses! You were given this space in this time to serve in a powerful way the people of the end times. Love one another and encourage but don't take on an imagination that will only weaken your faith walk. God gave you all of the weapons you will ever need and if you don't think this faith walk is a battle, you have a big surprise coming, very soon!
For without faith, it is impossible to please God! That should be tattooed on everyone's hand! But especially engraved on your heart and mind! Fight the good fight of faith. You want to know who you are in Christ? Read all of Ephesians until you GET IT! deep down in your soul and then bring your mind into agreement that You Are The Righteousness in Christ Jesus. Christ is another way of saying "the anointed one and his Anointing". Christ gave us the power of agreement and what we bind on earth is bound in heaven; what we loose on earth is loosed in heaven.
MAC, I think that is a great idea of a mirror site for Joel. Is there a way we can help?
Love and cherish each and everyone of you and I don't want anyone to stray away from the fold.
Grany
OK, shunning period is over! Besides, it just doesn't work with me!
By the way, in all seriousness, I did a Google search on Glen4Jesus and you guys would be amazed at who and what he does. Just go and see what that man was trying to accomplish. We didn't ask the right questions nor were we interested in his own agenda.
He is working his own fund raiser for Africa and it is eye opening to say the least.
Grany
Well, I sure hope no one would shun you over this!
Personally I agree with most of what you said, and you said it all beautifully!
I do think we need to be aware of terrorists and the whole Islamic militant issue....even though we know who the victor is.
Someone posted info about earthquakes...and how there are more of them and they seem to be getting stronger, etc, and I think that's interesting too.
The other stuff I already agreed with Lori and John about...but even if I didn't I wouldn't shun you or anyone else for having a different opinion.
I doubt and certainly hope no one would shun you over it either.
It's just opinions and thoughts!
And this is just my opinion! :)
Now that I have "Dead Heat" fresh in my mind: This was a qoute I found re:Ezekiel 38/39
(I'm at the part of the book where the US thinks the attack was probably from China.)
"And who are these "coastlands" people that also get torched? Could that be the United States?
Maybe. When Russia comes against Israel, they might launch a pre-emptive first strike against the United States too. They're openly planning to launch a strike against us someday, and for years have been building massive underground cities. They believe their key industrial and government centers would survive a counterattack from the USA, and a preemptive first strike against us would conveniently prevent our coming to help Israel. To be honest, we can only speculate. But in view of current events, these speculations are too close for comfort.
A mutually destructive nuclear exchange would help explain another aspect of end-times prophecy. The Book of Revelation is very clear that in the last-days, power will be concentrated in the Middle East and in Europe. At the beginning of the last days, China ("the kings of the East") will be temporarily in shock from the disappearance of huge numbers of underground Christians (perhaps a larger percentage than in the USA). But China will gather itself for a push westward at the very end. Russia and the United States are conspicuous by their absence."
I found this site to be very revealing about Glen4Jesus. My heart aches for him and it seems odd that the man who appeared on Joel's blog didn't write anything like this blogger did on the link below. If you all would be so kind as to see what you think. By the way, this Glen said he lives in S.A. Jeri, that is where you live and one of the newer women but I can't remember who it is. Any way his link:
www.food-from-heaven.co.za/squattercam/about_me.htm
Also, this link
http://www.food-from-heaven.co.za/squattercam/start.htm
I don't know why I didn't think of doing this before but see what you think about it.
Grany
Oh, Donna, I was concerned about everyone's feelings regarding my post but you know, I have to be true to what the Holy Spirit leads me in doing. I would rather have everyone's condemnation than grieve the Holy Spirit. But I appreciate your words and encouragement.
WE are living in very difficult and yet powerful days that God has ordained for us. I don't want to miss him.
Grany
Grany,
Glen4Jesus- I googled him.
Electronic Transfer?
"Dear Precious Human Being?"
Do you really believe this?
Who is our undercover "cave" operative?
Lisa
Hi Grany & Lisa,
I found his website, too, and the first thing I thought of was...the Nigerian-based scammer emails
(BTW Jim, that group you mentioned some time ago, the one that scams the scammers, was highlighted on a news program I was watching. I actually took the time and read the whole transcript of the Shiverme Timbers one....hilarious!)
About G, I don't know... the website was so poorly organized/written and lots of the photos seem to have been Photoshoppped. Also, the links along the left-hand side all go to ChickTracks. The further I got in, the more confused I got.
My thoughts...
Blessings,
Jen
PS. Anyone else read the article on Joel's about the Coptic priest? Very interesting and someone we should be praying for!
Grany said:
OK, shunning period is over!
I actually thought you meant you were done shunning us since you haven't been commenting much lately!
Grany, I would NEVER shun you - silly woman.
(But, I must say, you have the ability to effectively chastise, down pat)
:)
I just looked at Glen's site and he sounds like some sort of nut!
He had a link to a combat kit against bible thumpers.
The whole thing is kind of strange if you ask me.
I know we're supposed to love everyone and all of that...but we are also supposed to keep away from certain people and things, too.
Hi Grany,
I have googled his site and he seems abit far out and is asking for huge donations. To give you an idea a donation of $3 500 equates to R 28 000 which is quiet a nice sum of money in SA. I will do a better search from my office tomorrow and also make some phone calls. I will keep you posted!
Here is a picture of our Glen:
More of Glen
Lisa
Hi all,
Quick prayer requests from my church that I was hoping to gather more warriors for ... (I serve on a meals ministry and this is a family we are cooking for...)
Mary (the mother of the family) had a mini-stroke leaving
her left side paralyzed. They have gone through COUNTLESS trials the last year two years. They have a 10 month old baby, two other children of their own (2nd grade girl and I am guessing around 7th grade boy)and they have taken in a 12th grade niece. From their trials, they are in serious financial troubles and now Mary will be unable to work.
Mary, in speaking with her
closest friend, stated that she has given up. She was declining
visitors - including her family.
I also delivered a meal today to a lady who has 9 children (ages 21-4) and is pregnant with a baby now. She's been bedridden for about a month with extreme morning sickness to the point she has needed IVs. Through it all, she is joyful and praising God for his mercies (the baby is fine....she lost 3 previous to this pregnancy so there is some concern.) She thinks she's on the upswing now, but there is a lot to do to take care of the existing family, get the house back on track and prepare for the new baby to arrive. And oh, did I mention, she homeschools the youngest ones?!
Blessings,
Jen
Alesia, caution was meant but chastising I will leave to the Lord. LOL.
I haven't been posting very much but I really couldn't spend much time looking at my monitor due to the side effects of the optical exams recently. I am fine now though and watch out! you are all going to get it now! Hehehehe @;o yes!
I am going to make this posting answer all. I thought of the Nigerian scammer too Jen; in fact as soon as I clicked on that first site with his Squattercam/star in the address it was like a light bulb went off inside me. Holy Spirit doing good today! No, change that! Holy Spirit is always good, it is Wilma that has the good/bad times.
Anyway, I did an AOL search for him and not much there. I think it went something like this. He addressed us as from AOL but his main address is yahoo.
THUUNDA are you listening? Reading? Is this guy from your neck of the woods. Is there anyway we can determine if he is for real or not? I did notice Thuunda that he has used Glen4Jesus with a lot of added suffix's like Glen4Israel, Glen4Africa, etc. I am checking right now with Rhema to see if his claims of attending Rhema are accurate and if so, what the outcome of that enrollment was.
Watch out world, Grany the Pink Panter is on the loose.
Jeri, that would be great. I think the important thing is to know what and who he really is and if he is indeed working a scam to put the skids to it. But I would like to pin him to the mat if he ever appears back at Joel's. I hope that someone knows how to alert them regarding the guy.
Well, anyway! God's word tells it like it is "touch not my anointed and do my prophets no harm. Psalm 105: Aw, read the whole thing! It isn't a very long Psalm.
Love you all,
Grany
An article says he belongs to "Living waters Church"
Glen's Church ???
Lisa
Jen, will be praying for both of these families.
Late nite Lisa,
That was very interesting! Yeah, that is the same picture of his wife I had seen previously but I didn't read anything further on her remarks. Thanks for sharing that. Jeri, you might want to see that one too.
that picture at the very bottom looks like it has been altered and added to make it appear that Glen was part of the gathering. Maybe not but it sure looks like cut and pasting that you do in paint.
You know, I can't understand why a man would get on another persons blog and accuse them of fraud and money scams especially if they were indeed serving in much the same capacity.
Like to know more about him.
Grany
Grany,
i think you found the wrong Glen4Jesus - I checked a cached copy of Joel's blog entry for March 21, and glen's id links to an AIM profile document - for which there is precious little info.
I suspect he took the ...200moniker because there is already a glen4jesus(at)yahoo.com, who appears to be connected to S. Africa. the glen...2008 has an AOL mail account, and appears to be from somewhere in the US.
RE you previous blog entry - thank you. Your comment You have all of the power you need and you have all of the revelation you need in God's word. Men who write books that captivate and deter you from the word of God are working out of their own imaginations. is right on.
If something is not addressed in the Bible, then, as far as I am concerned, we have no real business exploring things that are not in the Bible. I would qualify that and say that, since God created everything, He knows very well how things in the natural realm operate, and we at perfect liberty to ask Him for witty inventions and ideas based on Holy Spirit revealing knowledge to us concerning this natural world.
I have heard that a business man asked God to tell him what he could use a peanut for - and as far as I recall, this man managed to come up with over 100 ways to make use of a peanut to create new products!
However, unless the Bible is explicit in explaining, for example what happened before Genesis 1:2, then we can only surmise, but we certainly cannot create a doctrine based on such a surmise. We can, however, look more deeply in to Scripture to see if it sheds light on the subject.
However, having said that, and having quickly looked through the info at the link given by Lisa, the author has made several mistakes in interpreting the Hebrew text based solely on Strong's interpretation. Although Strong did an excellent job, his interpretations are still colored by his traditions and man-made doctrines.
Hebrew can be a difficult language to translate, because it does not have a rich vocabulary. Having said that, the Concordant Version of the OT (CLT) for Genesis 1:1-2 reads:
IN A BEGINNING Created by the Elohim were the heavens and the earth.
Yet the earth became a chaos and vacant, and darkness was on the surface of the submerged chaos. Yet the spirit of the Elohim is vibrating over the surface of the water.
The key phrase in Genesis 1:1 is "created" - the Hebrew is bara, and is only ever used when referring to a complete, finished work that has been created from scratch. If this is the case, why is the earth in chaos in verse 2?
The same Hebrew word 'bara' is used in Genesis 1:27, when God "created" Man. I hope everyone can agree that God created Adam and Eve as a perfect, complete and finished beings, and that they were not created and then became in a state of chaos that He had to re-do (at least, not until Adam sinned).
Interestingly, the Authorized Version translates Genesis 1:28 as
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Exactly the same expression in Hebrew is used in Genesis 9:1:, when God tells Noah and his family to “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.
I also think people rarely take into account what the Bible says about the earth and its climate and atmosphere BEFORE Noah's Flood, and after.
Before, there was a "firmament" of water ABOVE the heavens (=atmosphere), and it never rained. After the Flood, which was in part due to the firmament above collapsing and dumping its contents on the earth, the entire atmosphere and climate of the earth was completely changed, and God had to set up a different process for managing the earth, through the means of climatic seasons - Spring, Summer, Autumn (Fall to you Americans) and Winter, which He said would continue until the end of the earth.
My reasoning is that the Bible clearly tells us God has destroyed the earth at least once, by flooding it, within mankind's lifetime (within the last 6000 years or so), and that He is going to do so again, but with fire. It is not that much of a stretch to postulate that, for whatever reason, God has had to destroy the earth as we know it before Adam and Eve cam on the scene. The geological and fossil record do, I believe, demonstrate this.
The Bible, as I have already said, indicates that God destroyed the world by an act of judgment at some point between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, because the Hebrew expression "tohu v'bohu", literally "a chaos and vacant", but usually translated "without form, and void" in verse 2, is only used in Scripture to describe the results of an act of judgment by God.
The only thing we know about, from Scripture, that fits this scenario is the fall of Lucifer. Jesus says in Luke 10:17 that this fall was like lightening, and that He saw it happen - meaning He saw it happen BEFORE He was manifested as the Son of God in human form. This must also have been BEFORE Adam and Eve were created, since Lucifer - now Satan, was already on the earth.
Now, if you have ever witnessed a major lightening strike, there is a phenomenal amount of energy discharged (remember light is energy -> Einstein's famous equation e = m c squared).
Lucifer was second only to God in heaven - albeit he was a created being and an archangel. Imagine a heavenly being that powerful being flung to earth like a gigantic lightening bolt. I would say that the impact would put any of the major meteorite collisions that have hit the earth in the past to shame. I am sure it would have completed destroyed any life on the earth and made it completely uninhabitable. -just as described in Genesis 1:2.,
God say he originally made the earth to be inhabited (Isaiah 45:18), implying that when He first created it, it was inhabited. By whom the Bible does not say, but since Lucifer was the ruler (=god) of this world at that time, and had kings and rulers under him (see Isaiah 14), it is not unreasonable to assume that the world was previously inhabited by some form of spirit beings (God only creates spirit beings) who had physical bodies of some sort. They were destroyed (at least their physical bodies were, you cannot destroy a spirit) by the cataclysmic forces of destruction loosed by Lucifer's fall to earth.
As I said, there is more to the Bible than initially meets the eye - you need Holy Spirit to reveal its truths to your spirit man - you will never understand it with your intellect. As it says in Proverbs 3:5-6:
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.
Your mind has to be renewed by the Word of God (Romans 12:2), because of itself it will never understand the ways of God. In other words, don't trust your mind, your intellect, your understanding to fathom out the word of God, rely solely on Holy Spirit, who will lead you into all truth.
Have a blessed day.
John
Grany, I did the same Google search for Glen4 and came up with that guy. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, though. Joel's Glen seems to have too much time on his hands to be the same guy. I could be wrong.
Not to contradict anyone here but only in the interest of balance here's a YE Creationist's take on the Gap theory.
Gap Theories
John, you are right about Glen. I just finished reading his personal account of his life and it just does not read the same as the Glen4Jesus on Joel's blog. However, it does seem strange that he never really stated where he was from. He did mention that he had heard the Calvary Chapel sermon and I think that was in New Mexico. But, he could have listened on the internet for that matter.
Taking someone else's name is pretty common to desperate people but something is wrong with this picture too. I got Joel's cached blog comment about Dead Heat being released on Mar 17th. Read the comment section and and copied Lori's biscuit recipe. Oops, got side tracked! Then I did a structual diagram of that Glen's remarks with the other one I posted and they aren't the same. Now I am going back to the drawing board but I will turn this rock every way there is to turn it.
John I would love to see a picture of that big firmament holding back all of that water which God then burst to bring about the flood of Noah's day. I have wanted to see that for such a long time and when we had all of those days of heavy rain just recently, I kept looking to the heavens to see if there was anything that would compare. On TV that night some airborne pictures were shown and it was amazing to see the huge cluster of water clogged clouds in the heavens. That is probably the closest I will ever be to seeing the original.
By the way Strong's has published an updated and corrected concordance that is selling at my favorite bookstore for $30.00. I am planning on checking it out tomorrow. Also, while I am recommending things, Dr. Fruchtenbaum has some great deals on Mp3 that cover Genesis, Leviticus, Exodus and Galatians. I think he also has one on Numbers but I didn't get it. The one on Galatians is full of great information. The outline is free to download from his web site and in addition you get 20% off the purchase price. Don't know how long this lasts but they aren't expensive and sure save a lot of space in my storage units.
Loved your remarks as always and learn everytime you do so.
Love and shalom
Grany
Mac, I didn't see your comment. I think you are right too. Now I regret having cast a sad light on him. But, I have learned from just re-reading the Glen from SA's testimony. You know, it is easy to be critical of another person's production, which I was in this regard and I am deeply sorry, but what if Wilma had lived that kind of life and came from those same conditions? What would any of us be like after we came face to face with a wonderful Savior? Wouldn't that put the fire of the Holy Spirit in us too? I am still trying to come to grips with Why Did The Holy Spirit Lead Me To Find This Second Glen4Jesus today?
I am doing a lot of soul searching believe me. I know there is a lesson for me here and I am going to learn it. Pronto!
Love you all and forever,
Grany
Hi Grany,
I will check out Glen4, here in SA and see how legit he is and what he stands for. If, as he states, he is feeding the poor in squater camps and doing good works I will let you know. At the current exchange rate any small donation from the States equates to a big wind fall here in SA, the rates is $1 = R 8.1
Have a good evening.
Yours in Christ
jeri
it actually would be very easy for Joel to track who he is though. In one of his many rants he said that Joel had visited his church and he had heard him speak. G started posting and then quit. when he came back the second time it was in one of his earlier posts that he mentioned that Joel had been to his church and it sounded at least to me like a recent visit. Joel I'm sure has kept track of where he has been lately to speak and it might be not all that complicated to call the church and ask if they have someone with that name-if G is his actual first name and not something he pirated in toto from someone else.
John
regarding your post about the nephilium etc-that was my gut level feeling also. I am intrigued by some of the concepts but have shied away from reading anything because
I just didn't feel comfortable doing so. I was considering buying some of the books and lo your post. changed my mind back to it's original thoughts of not going there.
To all,
Frucht has some fascinating things to say about the earth pre fall of Satan and indeed about what Lucifer's role was in heaven pre fall. He feels the earth was a mineral garden and that the "gap" between represents the time of Lucifer's fall. It is all in his 6 abodes of Satan which you can purchase to read or listen to. it is actually an appendix in his Footsteps book and quite interesting needless to say.
I too think that inordinately worrying about Nephilim can be unhealthy. It can sidetrack someone away from what's important - even if it may be factual.
You're right about Frucht, Jib. I plumb forgot about his article on Satan!
Jib and Mac, I forgot I had purchased the PDF of that one by my precious teacher. You know, I really do like his take on scriptures and basing them on the original text is also a big blessing.
I have to tell you all something that just really blessed me. I listened to Joel giving his take on Daniel 9 at the Cosa Mesa, Ca. Calvary Chapel. He did it such a way as to equate it in todays setting. Of course, you probably all listened to it when he first put the link on his blog but I am running about 3 or 5 weeks behind everyone else, panting all the way, and I just finished listening. He is getting better and better every time.
I like the flash traffic alerts from him also. It really gives you more info that way and I can keep them for future reference.
I am going to waddle off and read my copy of the 7 Abodes of Satan and try to keep up with you kids.
Love and smooshies,
Grany
Lisa,
I am sorry to hear about your struggles with talking to your husband about creation. I will be praying for you. Nate and Donna have given you some very sound advice. Nate is totally right about arguing doing no good. So often I find myself getting into "discussions" that end up going no where.
Most times, you are not going to convince the other person no matter how much evidence is on your side (especially if this person is a non-Christian or new to the faith and you are talking about something concerning God). They are much more interested in winning the argument and trying to get their points in than actually listening to what you have to say. This has to be especially hard and very frustrating for you when the person you are arguing with is someone that is close to you.
If we went into every discussion with the Lord's Spirit in mind as Nate suggests, we would all get ourselves in a lot less trouble. :-)
John,
Speaking of discussions…
I try to have a Berean attitude towards Bible prophecy, end times discussions, etc. Being open-minded is a big key to understanding end times prophecy. As long as something is clearly not unbiblical, I am willing to listen to just about any theory and decide for myself after researching, reading the scriptures and praying whether it has merit of not.
One of the things that really bugs me about the Rapture Ready site is how closed minded and “know it all” their moderators are. They do not allow any discussion that is contrary to their very narrow minded view of what how the end times is going to unfold. They are going to have a lot to answer for someday.
That being said, one of the things I really liked about Joel’s blog was the openness (with a few exceptions on occasion) to discuss other end times theories, before the unpleasant elements found the blog site and messed it. I enjoy the same at the cave and I would like it to remain that way……
I will try to choose my words carefully here. Several of us who post at the cave have read “Nephilim Stargates” and/or “The Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse.” Everyone here who has actually read these books (that I know of) has had positive things to say about them and has found them to be very educational. I have heard interviews of the authors of both books and have been very impressed with their sincerity and hunger for the truth.
Have you read either of these books or done any research about them? This kind of reminds me of the “Earthquake Resurrection” “discussion” at Joel’s site a year or so ago. People were weighing in with their negative comments having never read the book.
Alesia is one of the people who has read these books. As she is one of the two people who maintains this site and is gracious enough to let us hang out here, I think she is entitled to discuss anything she likes without feeling like a puppy being whacked with a newspaper. Maybe she doesn’t feel that way, but that is the feeling I got when we are “cautioned” yet again about getting “side-tracked” talking about Nephilim etc. If you are not interested in discussing this topic, don’t. It is that simple.
In your defense, I am sure your cautioning us is in the spirit of brotherly love and you sincerely feel this topic can lead us astray. I get that. However, that is your opinion. It feels to me more like you are talking from a position of authority and we are “babes in the woods.” I have been a Christian now for over 3 decades (I am sure this is small potatoes compared to someone like Granny). I am not bragging when I say this, as I have wandered during that time, and it would not be something to brag about anyways. We are all saved by the grace of God at the time He decides and it is nothing we have done in and of ourselves to boast about.
My point is I have been around for awhile, and like most people who post at the cave, I have read a lot of Christian books in that time. Questioning the judgment of those of us who like to talk about these books and Nephilim is a little insulting. It implies that we are not mature enough as Christians to know what is Biblical and what isn’t.
That being said, there have been many things that you have posted over the last year or so that I have 100% disagreed with. There have been times I have had to sit on my hands after reading some of your comments. I have kept my mouth shut in the interest of being Berean , keeping the peace, and showing brotherly love. However, when I see you once again “cautioning” us about talking about Nephilim and implying that the contents of these books is not backed up by scripture, I couldn’t keep silent any longer.
With some of the theories you present, you are on pretty shaky ground pointing the finger at the theories of others. In my opinion, your theory about their being a flood that destroyed the earth before Noah’s flood is far more out there than anything I have read in either one of these Nephilim books. The author’s of these books quote plenty of scripture to backup their theories.
You say your flood theory is backed up by scripture and you quote a few verses that you interpret as supporting a pre-creation flood. This evidence is very subjective and paper thin at best. I am not sure how God destroying the earth with a flood before creation makes any sense at all. The fallen angels are spirit beings and would not have been “destroyed” by a flood, so what would be the purpose of God using a flood to destroy the earth at that point?
If you read the account in Genesis 1 of God creating life on this planet, it does say the earth was covered with water and was without form and void. However, when God created land and separated it from the water, it sounds like to me that it was a first in the universe, not something that He had already done before. That would not be very original at that point. There is no indication whatsoever in Genesis that this planet was anything but a new creation, not a planet being renovated after a previous destruction.
I believe God created all organic life (not including Spirits, Angels, etc.) on this planet about 6000 years ago. I believe He created this organic life in 6 literal, 24 hour days as the account of Creation in Genesis clearly states (unless you are an evolutionist that is forced to twist the scriptures severely to make them "compatible" with evolution).
I will also state that I don't know for sure how old the earth itself is, how old the Solar System is, or how old the Universe is. The Universe could in deed be very ancient. However, there is significant scientific evidence that I think clearly demonstrates our Solar System is not nearly as old as evolutionists like to claim. Well, they have to say it is billions of years old to make their theory of evolution "work".
One of the biggest proofs of the Solar System being young is the volcanic activity on Jupiter's moon Io. This moon has 400 active volcano's on it that spew lava up to 150 miles in the air. Io is only about the size of our moon (1/6th the size of earth) and yet it has not cooled. According to evolutionary theory (requiring billions of years), Io should have cooled to a dead rock billions of years ago, but there it still is, spewing out lava like it just started yesterday.
There are many other examples of why the Solar System is probably only a few thousand years old and not billions or even millions of years old, but that is a long discussion.
John, you mentioned the following in your comment:
"Note: the fossil/geological record, if at all valid, should point to this event. One (not the only) such event could be the mass extinction and major destruction that occurred an estimated 251.4 million years ago, known as the Permian–Triassic extinction event."
I believe all of the fossil record (all of the rock strata from Pre-Cambrian layer rock on up) was built about 4000 years ago during Noah's flood.
When paleontologists, geologists, and evolutionists start throwing around millions and billions of years for date estimates of fossils and layers of the rock strata, I know they are full of it.
If one takes the time to seriously look into their methods of dating these fossils, rocks and artifacts, they will discover that they are very flawed. They are guilty of circular reasoning. Many decades ago, evolutionists decided that they needed 5 billion years for evolution to occur, so they decided that the bottom layer of the rock strata, the Pre-Cambrian layer, must be over 5 billion years old and the next layer up, the Cambrian layer (which is the lowest and supposedly oldest layer that fossils are ever found in) must be about 5 billion years old. As they climbed up the layers of the rock strata, they decided to arbitrarily assign other ancient times to the layers that they thought fit their theory of how things evolved.
Once they had established this "accurate" timeline, then it was a simple matter of assuming that the fossils found in those particular layers of rock strata must also be the same age as the rocks that "usually" contain that type of fossil.
In reality, fossils are frequently found in the wrong place,—especially far below the strata layer, which evolutionists claim was formed at the time this particular creature was supposed to have lived.
There are three ways that the experts deal with this problem: (1) Ignore the evidence. (2) When large numbers of fossils are found in solid rock below their proper
strata, they are said to have been “downwashed” through the solid rock into lower strata. (3) When they are found above their theoretical strata, they are said to have “reworked” themselves into a higher strata. That is, they slipped, slid, or fell up through solid rock into higher levels.
As long as the “experts” have given the problem of fossils frequently being in the wrong rock layer to support the theory of evolution and an ancient earth a “scientific” label like “downwashed” and “reworked”, everything is fine. They don’t have any feasible explanation for why it happens, but at least they have labeled the problem.
As for the various dating methods that paleontologists and geologists use to date rocks, fossils and artifacts, they are all very flawed. These dating methods, like carbon dating and all radiodating methods are all based on several big assumptions. The biggest of these assumptions is that the rate of radioactive decay that is currently observed for the various elements that are used in radiodating (uranium, thorium, etc) has always been the same as what we currently observe. These methods also assume that there has been no contamination of the samples and there was no daughter elements present in the sample to start with.
All these big assumptions are thrown out the window if the atmosphere on the planet was different in the past (like the think cloud canopy over the earth before the flood) and the flood itself totally rearranging the surface of the earth. Even though there is huge evidence that the climate of the earth was vastly different in the past and that there has been ice ages and catastrophic events in the past, paleontologists do not take any of this into account when they are using these flawed methods to date things. They assume a uniform timeline, which is contradictory to all the scientific evidence. So…because of this, there is no reason to put any stock in the ridiculously long time frames that scientists come up with when they date fossils and rocks.
As a Christian, there is no scientific or Biblical reason to believe that organic life has existed on this planet any longer than 6000 years.
I hope my email does not open a “flood” of controversy as that was not my intention. I don’t like arguing with anybody, especially fellow believers. We should be supporting one another not arguing. My point is merely that I think we should let people talk about what they feel like talking about without “raining on their parade.” If we are not interested in the topic, let’s just not comment.
God Bless,
Harold
Amen, Harold.
Something to ponder:
Schweitzer’s Dangerous Discovery’
PS Harold, I made my Neph comment because, from personal experience, I did spend too much time on such subjects (UFO's etc). But that's not to say that people should not talk about these subjects just because someone else does not share that belief. I was thinking more about balance because of my own past situation.
Harold, thank you for your desire to speak your heart without harming another. I appreciate your words about freedom to express and to ask one another what do you think about such and such, here's what I think.
My two cents for what it's worth (two cents!):
We should not indulge our human curiosity on things from the evil one, however it is good to have a reasonable understanding. Neither should we treat it as entertainment, which is also something our human nature can have an unhealthy desire for. But, I'm grateful for those who have an understanding about these things for the times when spiritual warfare is too intense for someone like me. I am checked by the Holy Spirit at a certain point when I study demonic presence, etc. I must stop and start to sing praises to God.
But I had never even paid attention to the Nephilim before I began to read this blog. It was just some obscure something in Noah's time. I now have a bit of knowledge and have people I respect to talk with about it.
I was praying this afternoon about how to talk about this with all of you because I know how much we all respect and love Grany and I still consider myself to be new at this. Grany, you have helped us on many things, taught me much, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this one. I say this as a younger sister (maybe not too much younger) who loves and respects you.
God bless you all!
Oh, and I find the discussions about creation fascinating!
"(Jesus') enemies had their opinion about Him," Wright wrote in a eulogy of the late scholar Asa Hilliard in the November/December 2007 issue. "The Italians for the most part looked down their garlic noses at the Galileans."
Obama's Pastor Slurs Italians in Latest Magazine
Personally, I'm not a big fan of garlic. Not that there's anything wrong with it.
I think it's time to get the famiglia to pay a little call on the pastor.
A Perfectly Prophetic Storm
Hey all,
My wife and I have been noticing for a while the increased amount of anony attacks that Joel's site is suffering. It's getting very intense lately. I see that as a good indication that Joel's books or the Joshua fund work or both are ticking off the other side.
Harold, I agree with a lot of your comments regarding creationism vs evolution. Have you checked out Barry Setterfield's work? He is a nice Christian man who has been somewhat ostracised for his Christian beliefs even though his work is sound and his ideas have been essentially stolen by others for publishing. If you agree with his work on VSL (variable speed of light), the time of creation in the biblical account, certain aspects of planck's constant and zero point energy all make logical sense. His math is all over my head, though!!!
Here's my longwinded take on studying UFO's, Nephilim, and other issues. God makes each of us to be interested in certain things. He made me to like physics, engineering, obscure scientific disciplines, motorcycles, and basically anything with an engine. I used to think spending time studying such things was wasted, but then I realized God made me this way for a reason, and my interests have opened huge doors for me to witness to non-Christians. Perhaps your interest in the nephilim is similar. At the very least, it allows you to knowledgably discuss it with other biblical scholars who don't share a solid doctinal base. Just my two cents.
Mac and Alesia, thanks for hosting this site.
In His Grip,
Scott
Harold said...
"I try to have a Berean attitude towards Bible prophecy, end times discussions, etc. Being open-minded is a big key to understanding end times prophecy. As long as something is clearly not unbiblical, I am willing to listen to just about any theory and decide for myself after researching, reading the scriptures and praying whether it has merit of not."
Words we should ALL live by in my opinion, that I can't emphaize enough!
John/Boatman909, you said "There is so much we don't know, yet, concerning the days we live in, and the very soon coming return of the Lord."
I totally agree, but if you believe there is so much we don't know. how can you say "I do not believe it says we need to concern ourselves about aliens, UFOs, stargates and all the other demonic activities and manifestations that seem to be growing in strength and power in these last days"?
Your statements are almost (not exactly) mutually exclusive. If there is so much about the last days you acknowledge not knowing, isn't it at least possible that UFOs, Aliens or Stargates could make up part of that unknown?
There's ALOT OF THINGS (not screaming here, just using caps for emphasis) the bible doesn't address, but that doesn't mean we ignore or diminsh its importance or relevance to end-time events.
And John/Boatman909 (and I say this with respect for you), if we don't need to concern ourselves with demonic activities, why does Ephesians 6:12 state "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" ?
That verse would appear to clearly refute your statement.
And sorry Grany, I disagree with your concurrence with John's statements.
This is my biggest gripe about Christians. Too many Christians get so caught up in their own personal interpretations of scripture, that God help anyone else with a different interpretation. That's what drove me nuts about a poster on Joel's site way back who was known to old timers there who prior to dramatically bidding farewell to everyone had a habit of pulling the statement "the holy spirit told me" out of her holster every time someone disagreed with her. I see it used again by others and it's embarassing. Just Google what others on the internet claim the holy spirit is telling them and you'll realize what company you're in when you claim to be moved, instructed, told, or whatever, by the holy spirit. It makes Christians look silly and demeans the validity of our faith. None of us has the answers, but you wouldn't know it from the opinions many harbor about differing opinions from others. As Harold mentioned, this happened before with David Lowe's book.
I personally would almost never claim I was moved to do anything by the holy spirit unless I could prove it. I think it's too easy for many Christians to "exploit" the holy spirit by claiming what they attribute to it, in order to shore up their own biblical argument or point of view, and regardless of whether they realize it or not, it undermines the faith.
As far as the topic of Harold's posts, I enjoy them immensely and here's just one reason that I hope might resonate with some of you. Have all of you forgotten that the bible warns repeatedly of deceptions and strong delusions in the last days? Doesn't that raise a red flag for you? It does for me, and because of it, I keep an open mind about alot of things so I don't become deceived or deluded from having too narrow an interpretation of what might happen.
That's all I plan to say about it, regardless of the follow up comments, not because of any ill will towards anyone, it's just not productive and I don't have the time : (
God Bless you all,
Still Grumpy as ever ; )
Harold,
Thank you, I agree. We should all be respectful of what others are talking about. I know for sure there are 6 of us here (at least) that have read about & are interested in these books/topics.
Actually, I saw your name in my email first & thought "YAH, Harold's coming to my rescue!" LOL
I don't want there to be any hard feelings amongst us, but, what Harold says about these books is correct - they are chockful of scripture & most everything that is discussed comes straight from the bible. If someone denounced them AFTER reading them, then I would be all ears & take note.
I didn't know there was negative discussion about Earthquake Resurrection. I'm in the middle of that now & can honestly say, it is intellectually kicking my behind. That book is completely about scripture, it practically analyzes every word!- which is why it is taking me so long to read.
With all that said, I DO understand what others are saying. I don't think all of ones time should be spent on this stuff. It should not be the main, or even a large focus, that's for sure.
I have a much better understanding of some things, it has caused me to delve further into scripture that I might not have otherwise because of reading these books. I have found them to be valuable in my spiritual growth. But, I can understand where others may disagree on this, and that's ok too.
God bless you all, my brothers & sisters in Christ!
well I'm going to really set the cat amongst the pigeons :-)
to me, the discussion about the nephilim I see as being very similar to the one that was had about D&D. now before you all blow a gasket hear me out...
As a preface, I am major into sci fi in a really big way which typically goes along with the D&D thing. I have in the past attended many sci fi conventions and have seen that world up close and personal-lots of sex, alcohol, sex, alcohol and probably some drugs for good measure. i truthfully have not participated in D&D nor do I know that I would want my son to participate but more because I've seen the lifestyle and participated to a certain extent in the lifestyle which goes a long with sci fi conventions and by extension the gaming world. I got involved in the sci fi world because of Star Trek not generally associated with demonic influence. My brother did get involved with gaming and got really bad grades in college and got involved to a certain extent in the gaming lifestyle but I don't know or think that it was anymore demoniacally inspired than if he'd been in a rock band or watching sci fi movies. so to me, D&D for some people really would be opening a door for demonic influence and violence but not for everyone. I personally would approach playing with some degree of caution simply because I know that Satan can use it as a portal for influence but I don't see role playing games as being anymore intrinsically evil than going to the movies, reading books, watching tv. I think Satan can use anything as a portal for influence. I also to a certain extent don't see that playing D&D would help me keep my mind on things above. I understand where Jim is coming from and his line of reasoning with it and actually don't have a problem with his reasoning. I'd still have to say though I wouldn't want my son participating in the gaming world because I am acquainted with that world and the bigger scene of sci fi conventions-sex, drugs and alcohol are as I said a big part of that world just as they are in rock bands and Hollywood (also two areas I'd rather he never get involved in for pretty much the same reason)
I see the Nephilium thing as being the same. I think it could be a problem for some but don't see that it would be a problem for everyone. my response to John, badly stated, was that it was a confirmation for me that I personally shouldn't read on this subject because it might lead to real problems for me and was for me a confirmation from the Holy Spirit not to go there. But that's me not any of you. Again, people have differing thresholds and different weaknesses. I sense myself being drawn to reading about these subjects, being fascinated by it etc. I would love to be able to read some of these books because with sci fi it is right up my alley so to speak. I'm a little jealous I'll admit and so curious I barely can stand it.
So I don't think that an interest in and reading about the Nephilim is intrinsically problematic-depends on what you do with the information, how you process the information, how the information impacts your life both negative and positive. rather like D&D
Grumpy
good to hear from you and your chiming in. I did get a major chuckle out of part of your post.
Having said that, I think that each of us need to realize that God speaks to us in different ways and I do think if we listened a little harder for that small still voice in our busy lives we might find He speaks a lot more frequently to each of us as individuals than we realize cuz we are not actively listening. One thing I've discovered as I've started losing some of my hearing (I am starting to lose the ability to follow conversations if there is background noise/conversations going on) is that if the room is noisy or the person really soft spoken, I have to actively listen to what they are saying and a lot of times I still have to ask them to repeat what they've said and listen harder. It is amazing how much work active listening is.
While not entirely comfortable with the whole tongue, faith healing things etc, one thing I have learned from both John ,Grany and Marge is to stop and think about- am I actually actively listening to what God is trying to show me or say to me and to try and hear that small still voice.
I have truly struggled with wanting to read about the nephilim but have not really been able to get past the disquiet I sense in my inner being about reading on the subject. I had finally decided that I was going to buy and read some of the books anyway when a big red stop sign was raised. Guess if that makes me a kook I'm a kook but I truly think for me that was a Holy Spirit moment saying-not for you. double drat. God has quite clearly enabled some of you to read the material and not be adversely affected by it. Lucky you-seriously.
not going to disagree with you on that one at all Nate-likely entirely true.
as I said-Satan can and will use anything he thinks he can use to sow discord, false notions, bad theology etc to keep people from finding the One True way. I just don't think that it makes whatever intrinsically evil. I would remind you however that Jules Verne was a pre 20th century sci fi writer and sci fi in all likelihood isn't as much of a problem as fantasy-which is all about fairies, ogres, magic etc. Sci Fi's general problem is that it is very human centered and humanistic.
the problem as I see it is that the nephilim have a grand total of one verse in the Bible and there is an incredible amount of debate over who or what they were or are. To build an entire theory of ufo's, preflood technology, pyramids, ancient civilizations etc based on this one verse seems a little sci fi like to me
as I re read your comment I think what you are actually saying is that satan is using Sci Fi to blind people to the fact that nephilim existed and were all these things to get us to believe that they didn't exist and that they were just a fairy tale. I would think it would be just the opposite quite frankly and that a sci fi generation would be far more likely to believe that the nephilim were real, the source of ufo's etc. Most sci fi folks don't believe that we are alone in the universe and a lot of the ones that I know wouldn't bat an eye about the nephilim being the source of preflood technology etc and especially ufo's
I just want to add 1 more thing, after seeing some of the other posts...
While two of these books have "nephilim" in their titles, there is much more to the books than just that.
Harold, thanks so much for starting this dialogue & having the courage to speak up. You've enabled others to comfortably express their honest opinion & I think that's great & very important.
We should all be doing our best to raise each other up.
Alesia
how diplomatic of you :-)
Jib,
Yeah, well, I've had a loony kind of day with bizarre thoughts and words coming out my mouth (or rather, coming out of my brain, into my fingers)
Thought I'd give diplomacy a shot & see if I fair better.
~chuckles & snorts~
Gruuummppppyyyyy! Good to hear from you even if it did take all this neph talk to bring you out!
BTW There's no question that they exist. I train with them all the time...
OK, I go now.
Jen, I'm praying for the families.
I have a request for prayer from the kids we work with.
"Em"- was raped 2 months ago, thinking about doing drugs again, I invited her mom to attend church this Sunday, Em will be with her dad. Em was suspended today, some girl insulted her and then slugged her and Em is a tough cookie and beat the daylights out of her.
D's little sister has special needs and his parents are fighting with the county because the county wants the parents to take over her education.
S's adopted brother was just beaten to death by his biological father, Sophie is really sad.
"C" is moving to Ohio to get a new start, need prayer for spiritual growth and for a good church.
"B"s granddad was hit by a car, he's been in the hospital for a few weeks.
Mike is having brain surgery tomorrow (2 tumors) and is being treated for malanoma.
We have a group of kids that show up weekly, eat pizza, run off campus to do drugs. Pray that they'll stay so the word can get into them.
Folks, the devil is trying to kill children. "Em" is only 13. "C" has had multiple sex partners. We work with middle/high school youth in a VERY afluent area. These prayer requests are from the ones who'll talk, some won't say anything. We have to continue to love them and hope that God is working in them.
Please pray for our family as we continue sharing the love of Christ with these kids. Thanks, I covet your prayers. lori
Aw Lori, that's a whole lotta bad stuff.
Am praying for all of them.
How sad.
Hey, you guys and dolls, wait for me! I read all of the comments and I feel sad that I have upset you all with my remarks. But, I have to say this to everyone: If you are balanced in your reading materials and know what God's word is saying, well based and not apt to start seeing Demons in everything, then read the other but don't make your fellowship with the Lord a once in a while contact in the meantime.
I said that none of those things scare me and they don't! Reason is simple; I leave them alone and they leave me alone. So, yeah, I am not a person who is terrified of snakes, frogs, bugs, but you put a spider in my path and it is Katie bar the door.
My concern is simply, don't forsake God's word for anything else. We can stand on God's promises and his word to remove us from evil and danger of all kinds. I can't say the same thing for Joel's novels, or anyone elses. You guys are young enough to separate truth from fiction and if the study of neph's is in line with God's word, then that is a different story. But until I know it is right there, I have to leave it alone.
I know we are all different and I thank God for that. But, we are put together for a purpose and I don't want to lose sight of that at all. I love each and everyone of you, equally. I don't ever want to make you think I am spanking anyone because I don't live life that way. If you are about to step in a cow chip, I will probably laugh and then point it out to you but when something is bothering me I will probably say something. I just want you all safe and on sound ground. As far as being a Christian longer, I wouldn't put that as a criteria because it is what you have put into your heart in the time period that is important. Some people that I knew in the past had been saved 50 and 60 years but they never grew and didn't try to. They had heaven insurance and the premium was paid and that is all they were interested in.
The part that always has had a big influence in my life has been 2 Tim. 3; long before Israel was restored as a nation, long before I was saved. The other passage is in Revelation where we are told that in the last days, men's hearts would fail them because of the fear and dread of what was happening on earth. That sounds scary enough and I believe we are about to see some of it begin in our life.
No one has the right to try to control what others do. It is considered a form of witch craft to be controllers with our fellowman. God does not do it and we shouldn't either.
So, I respect and honor your opinions and cherish your fellowship. You are all old enough to make your own decisions and work out your own salvation.
Love you all,
Grany
Hi all,
I am not intending to start any kind of flame war but just read this - a literal translation of Genesis 6:1-5 (taken from the Concordant Version of the OT):
1 And coming is it that humanity starts to be multitudinous on the surface of the ground, and daughters are born to them.
2 And seeing are sons of the elohim the daughters of the human, that they are good, and taking are they for themselves wives of all whom they choose.
3 And saying is Yahweh Elohim, "Not abide shall My spirit in the human for the eon, in that moreover, he is flesh. And come shall his days to be a hundred and twenty years."
4 Now the distinguished [ones] (= the nephilim) come to be in the earth in those days, and, moreover, afterward, coming are those who are sons of the elohim to the daughters of the human, and they bear for them. They are the masters, who are from the eon, mortals with the name [implying that these are mortal beings, not angels??].
5 And seeing is Yahweh Elohim that much is the evil of humanity [no mention of angels] in the earth, and every form of the devices of its heart is but evil all its days.
It seems, from the original Hebrew, that God (Elohim) was angry with men - not angels. He was specifically angry with the "sons of the Elohim" (these are men, not angels - there is NO reference to angels anywhere in the text), because they had started mating with "the daughters of men" - the descendants of Cain, in other words those that did not follow after Elohim. Which is why He chose to destroy all human beings except Noah's family by temporarily flooding the earth, because of their evil ways. Noah, was by the time of the Flood, the ONLY righteous man alive - its really incredible how quickly things went down hill. Remember that many of of Adam and Eve's descendants were alive for up to 1000 years - almost to the Flood - so there was no real excuse for Mankind to not know about God, and how He wanted them to live.
Man's tradition has created this whole thing about the Nephilim - that they were fallen angels, who slept with woman and created giants. The original Hebrew just says that they were the original "distinguished ones", the men of renown - or as the Hebrew puts it "mortals with the name" (or men who had made a name for themselves).
Jesus said, very clearly, that angels do not marry. The context (in Matthew 22:23-32, Mark 12:18-27) is talking about men and women being married here on earth, and having children (or at least having an intimate physical relationship - sex), and Jesus is explaining that when we die, we are no longer able to get married, and therefore will not be procreate in the manner we are accustomed to - because we will like the angels - who are created beings who, according to what Jesus is saying, do not procreate, nor can they have intimate physical relationships - sex, either with each other, and certainly not with another species.
According to the Bible, all creatures (including Man) can only mate with another of their own species (the Bible uses the phrase "after their own kind"), with the express purpose that they procreate and multiply - see Genesis 1:20-31.
This is a basic law - the "Law of Reproduction". Given the above, I cannot see how angels could ever mate with humans to produce anything. As far as I can ascertain, it is the "traditions of men" that have assumed that the "distinguished [ones]" otherwise commonly termed the "Nephilim", come from or are angels - fallen or otherwise. There is nothing in the biblical text to allow us to make that assumption. In fact, according to Strongs [5303] the root word "nephil" has the meaning "properly, a feller, i.e. a bully or tyrant:--giant."
The real problem is that we have been so conditioned by traditions and doctrines of men, that it sometimes very hard for us to let go of these traditions and seek to know what the Word actually says.
In my limited expereince, people will become almost violent in their defense of their traditions, even when they can see that the Bible clearly says something different.
That is not intended as a criticism of anyone here - it is just that Jesus said that our traditions can cause the Word of God to be of no effect (see Matthew 15:6) - in other words we can, through our traditions and man-made doctrines, completely miss what the Word actually says, and no amount of reasoning or study seems to be able to overcome that, until we go to Holy Spirit and ask Him to show us.
I personally have had a hard time overcoming some of the erroneous teachings I received in the past, which I now recognize as being man-made doctrines and traditions of our "elders" from times past.
That is why I want to share with all you guys what I have received out of the Word as a result of being shown how to read, interpret and understand it, without reference to any outside source, other than historical records for context (and even those are often suspect in accuracy and content).
The Bible is, in some miraculous, supernatural way, able to explain itself - the more I study, the more I am amazed at how much is in it, and how incredibly detailed God's plans and purposes are for us.
John
Jib, Shalom! When you wrote
I have in the past attended many sci fi conventions and have seen that world up close and personal-lots of sex, alcohol, sex, alcohol and probably some drugs for good measure.
all I can say is that you and I obviously went to VERY different sci-fi conventions!
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all I can say is that you and I obviously went to VERY different sci-fi conventions!
I must concur, earthling.
I have been on vacation over the last week and, only now, have had the time to comment. John and Grany, I agree completely on staying away from new ager stuff.I dabbled some in the 80s so the small voice inside me now said DO NOT EVEN READ ANYTHING (His emphasis not mine)so I'm trying not to even think about it. On a personal note, I resorted to looking through church adverts. in the paper and found two that bill themselves as "full gospel." Are there any red flags I should look for (other than adding to or subtracting from the Word). I plan to visit the closest to where I live this Sunday? Lisa, I looked at your church's website, but it is too far from where I live to give me the community I need.
Sorry that delete was mine
I don't drop in often and I have really only scanned many posts so I hope this is not out of place, but I must say My God is the same today as he was yesterday. Listen for that small voice yes!!!
My mother was very sick with cancer during her treatments she ended up in the hospital. I only received a call that she was in the hospital and everything was ok ( we are 600 miles apart). The second day after I received the call, I went home from work and sat down after a long day -- I HEARD -- Go tell your mother I am with her and it is not her time.
Ok ---I hesitated thinking it was just me but it happened again and my bag was packed. I drove all night to get to the hospital went into her room the next morning (8 hour drive) and she just started crying and so do I. I told my mother God says he is with you and it is not your time, she immediately stated crying again and told me she keep hearing a voice the night I left my home telling her God is here God is here. My mom said she kept looking around and no one was in her room with her.
This was the first time she was in the hospital and she was in heart failure they did not expect her to leave. she improved so much, I took her home the next day.
Yes this was the first time the second time she went in for clots in her lung, they said she was lucky to have made it to the hospital, again she went home.
To date the scans cannot find the cancer.
I am not sorry but I believe the Holy Spirit does talk to people, healing's happen and God pours out his spirit on people. I only fear that we just do not understand how Big and wonderful our God is.
I know this forgiven sinner has been blessed beyond anything I could have imagined and I know he walks with me everyday.
This is not meant to make anyone upset this is only my testimony.
Blessing to you
Sheila
ha
guys, it might depend on who you are with. the people I was hanging around with were definitely into the sex and alcohol and I saw plenty of it. This was at one of the largest cons in the midwest (a few hundred, may be a thousand). I have been to some smaller cons and I would agree-nothing going on that was seamy or bad etc. A friend who was interested in sci fi wanted to go to the larger one, I had forewarned her she might not like it, and it was like there were two cons going on concurrently-there was very definitely a not so seamy side layered right on top of the rather seamy side. I was no doubt hanging with the wrong crowd for a time in my life-all that is there you just have to look for it.
seriously-the con I used to go to most of the time was populated mostly by 20 somethings. you have seen footage and heard of spring break? this con was like spring break for geeks :-)
Grany
I understand where you are coming from and appreciate the words of wisdom-no substitute for experience and only you know how much of what you are saying is by direct leading of God and how much is just plain based on life experience. I would suspect that there is a fair amount of both. the older I get the more I look around for godly experienced people for advice to avoid some of the pitfalls of life. while I might not agree with everything and everything might not be applicable to my situation, the life experience is there and to me valuable. you are always a treasure.
John,
you always give me so much to think about and consider even though many times I don't agree with what you are saying and sometimes I do. and sometimes I have no idea so your ideas are a spring board to new thoughts.
to all,
I think part of the "problem" is that we all do come from different denominational backgrounds and life experiences. for those of us who were raised in particularly staid or rigid backgrounds other denominations are scary (at least they are to me) especially if they aren't staid or rigid. and then there's Jim who is, gasp, a believing catholic! oh my what is the world coming to. ;-0
if you all only knew how many times you have as a group stretched me far beyond my comfort zone in a lot of areas and not just the spiritual ones.
back to the nephillim again-I get the impression that this is more a new phenomenon as far is it being more part of the mainstream- believing that they are fallen angels etc. likely there have always been folks who think that but I still think that the more traditional and widely accepted view point is the one that John mentions. the fallen angel theory might not at its roots be new but as far as the number of books etc being written it is a fairly recent thing. I believe when the subject first came up Mac, or may be some one else, mentioned that there were more new age sites talking about the nephillim than Christian sites. I find that interesting and worth consideration-how do we know that it isn't a new age infiltration of Christianity? I would note interestingly enough that Frucht if I'm not mistaken thinks that the nephillim are indeed fallen angels.
Lori
no doubt Satan is going after the kids and families. how very sad that these kids are going through these things.
I have to tell you, since my son's salvation we have started getting complaints from one of his preschools about "inappropriate behavior and comments". NEVER got many complaints at all and now this and twice in one week. we've had to have some interesting discussions this week about people's parts and underpants-no touching and no sand.
I will agree not even close to being as bad as what the kids you mentioned are going through but interesting all the same. when one comes to Christ, Satan doesn't really care about your age, he's going to make life difficult.
Jib, Shalom! The biggest con I ever went to was Minicon, held in Minneapolis over Easter weekend. They started holding it at Easter because they couldn't find a hotel willing to host a convention of weirdos during the regular convention season, and Easter is usually a time when the hotels are empty. Now they have hotels bidding to host the convention, because hey! it's 800 people at a time when normally they'd be empty. The Easter part didn't bother me because I lived in Minneapolis at the time so it was no biggie to go to church and then back to the con.
(Although there was one time that just stands out in my mind, going to church with some friends who were dressed in full medieval garb -- long story [TOO LATE!] complete with swords, and seeing the reactions of the people around us. The weapons were peace-bonded [meaning they were tied to the scabbard or sheath so they couldn't be accidentally pulled out by anyone], which what made what happened so special. Before entering the pews the two gents [the ladies weren't armed -- at least not where anyone could see -- these were true period garments, folks] stood up straight, undid the peace bonding on their swords, pulled out the swords so about an inch of steel showed, then both genuflected and offered the hilts of their swords towards the cross. In any Western culture with royalty, including Britain, this is what you do when coming armed before your King: you offer Him your sword as a sign of fealty, to show that you are ready to offer your sword -- and your life -- in His service. Coming so soon after reading and meditating about how all His apostles abandoned their King, letting Him die on a cross, this was a very powerful gesture to anyone who understood the symbolism.)
As for drugs, that would be a definite no-no, and cause for being evicted from the con without a refund from either the con or the hotel. The convention committee had worked too hard and long to find a place to hold the convention and dealing with hotel officials who were skittish enough about dealing with weirdos, to take a chance on developing a reputation among the local convention scene as a group of druggies. This attitude persisted throughout the years, so it's been fairly well established by now. Besides, as one T-shirt I saw said, "Who needs mind-altering drugs when you've got Science Fiction?"
As for sex, again I couldn't say. I don't think Minicon ever got as wild as spring break is supposed to be, and I never witnessed anything that I saw as overtly sexual, but as you pointed out these are 20-somethings taking a break from the mundane world. At the time I was most involved in conventions (20 years ago) most single sci-fi geek girls had been hunted to extinction; I'll wager the situation has changed since then.
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Sheila, Shalom! Wonderful news about your mother!
Lori, I'm keeping all of your charges in my prayers.
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I'd like prayers for one of my office staff.
she just lost her treasured aunt (her substitute mother figure) and the day of the burial her brother was admitted to a hospital up near phoenix. she received word yesterday that her brother had to be life flighted to Denver because there was no neurosurgeon or neurosurgical bed in all of Arizona to take care of him and his newly diagnosed brain tumor. She is devastated. Pray for matilda please.
I would note that if you live or are visiting the state of arizona-do not have a neurosurgical emergency. very few of our state's neurosurgeons take emergency cases anymore because the cost of getting med mal insurance to cover neuro emergencies has risen to the point where very few will pay for it. med mal insurance cost is in part determined by the types of things one does and if you want to do the same things as emergencies. generally the cost of med mal insurance can be anywhere from 20-50% higher to cover emergencies. in the state of arizona the cost of covering neurosurgical emergencies is staggeringly expensive. I believe the quoted figure was between 175k-200k/year, although that might be the figure cost of non emergency brain surgery, I really can't remember. that's a lot of brain surgery to cover that kind of cost. there was a report of one man in his 40's who died of a very simple neurosurgical problem because it took several hours to find someone to take him as a patient and he died before the transfer could take place. very sad.
Shiela, Thanks for your testimony. This must be building your faith as well as your mom's. We'll keep her in our prayers.
On the whole neph. topic, I haven't said a whole lot. For a while I was studying everything I could on the anti-christ on who he could be if he were living today. (IMHO, I think he's alive) And then one day I felt the Holy Spirit say, "quit looking for him, look for me."
My focus turned from looking for the evil one (who will be revealed in his time) to looking forward to seeing my Jesus face to face. I want so much to know him better and serve him.
God is not the author of confusion. There are a lot of answers I'll get from him one day, in the meantime, I must trust him with every breath and every fiber of my being. I must cling to the one who saves, heals, restores and delivers.
He is the vine and we are the branches, our life comes from him. Cling to him, don't let anyone or any theology cut you loose.
Jim
let's just say things have changed a bit since you did cons :-) there were many many more sci fi geek girls going to cons when I went. their costumes were shall we say, not period medieval wear. more like orion slave girls although that was one of the more tame costumes. anything Leia wore especially her slave girl costume or some of the klingon costumes was certainly better. most did dress in regulation next gen body suits though but hey-they can fit right snug. I remember talking to one of my favorite authors, a man in his late 50's if memory serves, when a girl in a very skimpy costume walked up and essentially propositioned him. yea, that was the end of my conversation since I was pretty much fully clothed. never got into the whole costume thing at any time.
I would agree that drugs were mostly a no no but there are always a few in any bunch. love the t shirt slogan btw. one of my other favs was "reality is for those who can't handle science fiction"
cool story about the church visit.
Lori
very wise words
Sheila
how fantastic for your mom!
Wonderful, Lori!!!
Amen!
Fox News:
With Iranian backing, Hezbollah guerrillas have dramatically increased their rocket range and can now threaten most of Israel, senior Israeli defense officials said Thursday.
The Lebanese group has acquired new Iranian rockets with a range of about 185 miles, the officials said. That means the guerrillas can hit anywhere in Israel's heavily populated center and reach as far south as Dimona, where Israel's nuclear reactor is located.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to divulge the confidential intelligence assessment to the media.
When Israel and Hezbollah fought a monthlong war in 2006, Hezbollah fired nearly 4,000 rockets into Israel. The longest-range rockets fired, which Israel said were Iranian-made, hit some 45 miles inside Israel.
Although Israel's air force managed to take out most of the group's long-range rockets, the military failed throughout the war to halt the short-range rocket fire that paralyzed northern Israel and killed 40 Israeli civilians.
After the war, the U.N. dispatched a peacekeeping force to distance Hezbollah from the border and prevent the group from rearming. But Israel says Hezbollah's Iranian and Syrian patrons have steadily provided the group with large amounts of rockets since then, many of them capable of hitting central Israel. However, it has not revealed the evidence for its claims.
Hezbollah and U.N. peacekeeping officials were not immediately available for comment.
The defense officials did not say how many of the new rockets Hezbollah has obtained. However, Israelis have said previously that overall, Hezbollah now has many more rockets in its arsenal than the 14,000 it had before the conflict -- likely more than double that number.
In early March, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon reported Israeli claims that Hezbollah's arsenal includes 10,000 long-range rockets and 20,000 short-range rockets in southern Lebanon.
Israel also faces near-daily rocket barrages in the south from Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip, ruled by the Islamic group Hamas. The rockets from Gaza, mainly crude short-range projectiles, have killed 13 Israelis since 2001. Like Hezbollah, Hamas has strong ties to Iran.
Joel has a new post...
also... Obama, Clinton both dismiss evil facing U.S., says author, Joel C Rosenberg
he has some strong dialog...
"This why other writers and producers are speaking out. Because the threat is real, and it's not going away. But much of America and most of Europe is sleeping. May we all awaken, before it's too late"
Fitna Video
This is a link the controversial Fitna video released by a government official in the Netherlands I think, about how Islam plans to rule the world
Networks are actively trying to remove, so you may want to catch it while you can.
Warning it has some graphic scenes to it
Mike
Mike, Shalom! I had some problems with Hotair.com, but I was able to watch the film at LiveLeak.com:
Fitna the Movie: Geert Wilders' film about the Quran (English)
Really good, and very disturbing. Be advised: while they don't actually show anyone BEING killed, there are pictures of decapitated heads and people who have been executed by hanging.
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I watched on liveleak.com and had no trouble loading in English.
It is similar to Obsession, but maybe more headlines from Dutch papers.
Interesting to see the population explosion of Muslims in Europe.
Was the cartoon character Mohammed?
Mike, thanks for the heads up (absolutly no pun intended!)
Lori, Shalom! Well, you know Joel's statement is just more proof for Anonymous' claim that Joel is warmongering for an attack on Iran.
I spent some time on Father Zakaria's website yesterday (Father Zakaria's Ecumenical Outreach Ministry), and it looks really good. If you click on the "Books" list, you go to a page that has English- language collections of the texts of some of Fr. Zakaria broadcasts. These provide answers to a lot of questions on comparisons between Islam and Christianity. Very interesting reading.
Given some of the responses to the "Fitna" film, it's probably a good idea that Joel has shut down the comment section of the blog for a while.
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take the children in the house before you going pouring that gasoline on the hot BBQ
UN rights council passes Islamic resolution on religious defamation
Mike: Thanks for the link on Fitna video, very concerning stuff. Glenn Beck has had some of those clips of hate speech from mosques on his program too. Very disturbing! I see by Joel's new post that he was supposed to speek on Glenn Beck but was rescheduled for later.
Also, very well put Harold and Grumpy, we don't alway agree, we are all from diverse backrounds but can all agree on the unmatched Grace of our Lord Jesus in placing us in his Body the Church. We are all here for a reason (sometimes different reasons) and He knows what they are, Praise God! May we continue to learn from one another in the Lord's light and Grace.
God Bless!
Hi guys,
I was able to watch the Eng. version at the link Mike posted, too. Wow...the Quran verses really make me think twice about the Muslim families I've worked with....they seemed genuine but I guess if they were really adherant to the faith it could have been a facade.
I think we need to be praying for anyone willing to take such a risk (ie. Wilders). He's basically going to live the rest of his life looking over his shoulder, along with concerns for family/associates. Anyone know his background/views other than on this issue?
And I was thinking the same thing about Joel's....maybe he shut down the comments, not because of our rip-n-tear, but because of the possibility of some really ugly stuff getting posted by new people coming to the blog in light of his book/interviews/columns.
Blessings,
Jen
Thought I'd pop in to say hello but the cave's empty. Just a few bats flittering around. Or should that be fluttering? Perhaps it's butterflies that flutter. Although my heart does that too, sometimes.
Cheerio.
wow very disturbing film but really important to see.
I don't know that the average Muslim subscribes to this any more than some average Christians subscribe to everything the Bible tells them to do or be either. as odd as it sounds, since I think most folks generally consider Muslims to be more faithful in following the tenets of their faith, there really are some out there who would deny that those verses exist or that they are out of context or that isn't what they mean. I mean, we have actual clergy saying that the Bible doesn't condemn things like homosexuality and that the verses used are "misunderstood", mistranslated etc. If not all Christians agree on how to practice our faith, it does seem a little absurd for us to expect all muslims to practice their faith all the same and to the same degree. just my two cents
I had a thought earlier. what do you all think about one of us writing a letter to send to Joel via his publicist regarding the recent shut down. we can say we are sorry if our behavior was part of it, ask for guidance from him for future reference etc. it can then be posted here by whomever and then those of us who want to sign it can do so. the poster/sender of the letter can then have comments sent to their email with an "I agree or whatever" and copy and paste them onto the email and send to publicist from all of us.
me get 100
Joel's already got another post up -- "Dead Heat" is now #6 on the Publisher's Weekly hardcover fiction list.
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Anyone have any more info on the shutdown of comments at Joel's??
God Bless!
Jib, Shalom! I'll volunteer to write the letter. Give me a day or so to let the Spirit move me, and I'll have something posted here for comment/corrections.
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Jib, I don't think Joel disabled comments because we were out of line. I think he could see that the negativity generated by the mouses and Glen were escalating - not diminishing - every time he added a new post. Given that he has been very active, he may have thought it strategically better to stop the comments for now - hopefully only temporarily.
GT, Shalom! Sorry, but no. If Joel knows about the cave, he hasn't indicated one way or another.
Going off on a tangent, I followed a link that was on the YNews article Lori linked to about the UN Rights Council. The link was to "Prophecy News Watch" and there were a couple of articles there that caught my eye. One was about something that happened last January, "Clergy ‘bless’ New York abortion clinic, calling it “sacred ground”" The "blessing" even included a rabbi blowing a shofar to celebrate the "freedom" the new clinic represents. I can only thank G_D that there weren't any radical/rebel Catholic priests in that group.
The other article was in the "Other World Events to Watch": Welcome to the new Babylon - Empires in the Desert. It's about all the new, billion-(with a "B")-dollar construction projects going on in Dubai, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. It was the one on the new city being built in Saudi Arabia that caught my attention. "King Abdullah Economic City" will cost more than $120 billion, and it will be located on the Red Sea with a major port, about an hour's drive away from Jeddah and a couple of hours away from Mecca and Medina.
What made me stop and do some more research on this was the mention of Jeddah, Mecca, and Medina. While Riyat is the capital of Saudi Arabia, the Government Center is in Jeddah. In his book, "Why I Left Jihad", Walid Shoebat makes a case for Saudi Arabia being "Mystery Babylon." One of the keys he uses for interpreting Saudi Arabia as "Mystery Babylon" is the quantity and type of materials imported into Saudi Arabia, which match the descriptions given in Revelation 18 and Ezekiel 27. They even import water. Given all the money being made by doing business with Saudi Arabia, it makes sense that "...The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn for her, because there will be no more markets for their cargo." (Rev. 18:11) It struck me that as much as the merchants of the earth might be distressed at Jeddah, Mecca, and Medina being destroyed, they would be REALLY upset at losing a $120 billion market.
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Mr. Hyde, Shalom! The English Grammarian in me is compelling me to speak -- or write, as the case may be. Bats can "flit"; butterflies can both "flit" and "flutter". "Flit" means to move quickly from place to place, not staying in one place long but quickly moving to a new place a short distance away. It's what I do when I'm supposed to be doing things like housework or dishes -- like right now -- which is besides the point. "Flutter" means to hover while flapping wings. It's not really hovering -- hummingbirds hover, but butterflies flutter because they're bouncing around but staying in about the same place in the air. Your heart flutters, because it's flapping around inside your chest while still staying in the same place -- inside your chest. At least, until the one causing your heart to flutter comes to take your heart and hold it close, which is either very romantic or very creepy, depending on how you look at it.
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Jamie (Lightshine),
I meant to link this site for you when we last 'talked' but forgot to. I thought it would be helpful for you in your work with your neighbors.
Blessings!
Jen
http://www.isaalmasih.net/index.html
Joel has a new post this morning
don't know how much if any I'll have access to computer for the next several days. pray for traveling mercies for us
okay
Jib - have a safe and happy trip.
Grany - I am still getting info on g4Jesus from SA. Bit slow, as been busy at work and will be in the bush this weekend.
Mike - thanks fro the link.
Very disturbing and the biggest for me will be the total lack of interest from the western and Christian people. It will only turn heads if the muslems start rioting and performing, so lets see what happens. We are all in The Lord's hands, so lets all pray.
Have a Christ centered weekend.
jeri.
re: joels post
Since this "land for peace" deal has not exactly worked well, I can not understand how or why anyone would continue to pressure Israel into giving up even more land.
It's absurd!
And the Golan Heights? To Syria?
What are they all crazy? Hello?
Nentanyahu would never allow this to happen.
At the same time, the world stage does seem to be getting "set"!
Donna, Shalom! I agree with you about the stupidity and futility of "land for peace" and the return of the Golan to Syria. This whole bit about pressuring Israel to participate in her own destruction reminds me of what was happening prior to Israel declaring independence. The US State Department REALLY didn't want Israel to declare independence when the British left. They wanted Israel to accept a "Trusteeship" in order to placate the Arabs. They even went so far as threatening (through back channels) to prohibit the transfer of humanitarian funds gathered in America to Israel if Israel declared independence.
I think it's just that the US State Department doesn't see any immediate benefit to supporting Israel, and sees a lot more benefit to opposing them, even so far as to wish for Israel's destruction by the Arabs if it would insure a steady supply of oil to the US.
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Hello all...
Having just returned from Israel, traveling into 'occupied' Syria (as Palestines refer to northern Israel) and the Golan Heights, my heart is really breaking for Israel. I know all of this will work out for the End Time plans, but how 'dangerous' (to say the least) for Olmert to even consider giving up the Golan Heights.
Not only will this be a military tragedy for Israel, it will also be an economic and lifestyle tragedy because of the water in this area and the fertile soil (that which is cleared of rocks!). The land was plush and green and the cultivated land was beautiful, planted in terraces on the mountains and in plats in the valleys. Israel is already pumping water from the Sea of Galilee to irrigate its crops. If Syria owns the Golan Heights, does Olmert not realize the danger of an even greater limitation of water, a necessity for life?
I realize that the only and the best thing we can do is PRAY (Yes...I'm shouting!) for Israel and the Peace of Jerusalem.
Blessings! (Mary)
Mary, it's all the more sad since the UN rejects water as basic human right
Corrected link..
Mary, it's all the more sad since the UN rejects water as basic human right
JOhn
Thanks John and Lori,
What has mankind come to? Well, we know, don't we? We've come to almost if not exactly that which the people in Noah's days prior to the Flood!
The Lord is merciful in tarrying, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should come to faith in Him.
Blessings to all! (Mary)
Oops...or is it Kathy? Sorry....
Just a "feel good" exercise.
'Earth Hour' to plunge millions into darkness
Don't know why but it feels like the calm before the storm?
Anyone else out there?
Mike
Thought I'd share this story found on Youtube :-)
92 year old women witnesses to robber!
Stacy that was great..
Mike
In Joel's new post, A-mad and Assad look like they're ready to waltz or do the cha cha.
Now I'm off to throw some iron around for a while.
Mike was right, Stacy - that was a great story. That old woman looks so much like my own mother - in attitude too.
News...
US State Dept Ignores Palestinian Anti-Semitism
Secretary Of State Rice Refuses To Meet Netanyahu
Update: Rice to meet Netanyahu during visit
Maybe the blogosphere has some impact after all....
Israel: The New "Old" South Africa
Obama's Secretary of Defense?
A road becomes a dividing line in the West Bank
John
I know this is grose but I couldn't resist.
If you already think Tom Cruise is wierd-take a look at this.
Tom's best dish
Lisa
Stacy,
What a great woman of faith! Super story.
We had the strangest thing happen last night.
After I put the kids to bed a man came up to our front (mostly glass)door while I was nearby on the computer.
He looked like a slight older southern man and asked me if I could give him $5.00 for gas. His mother was in the hospital w/a stroke and he didn't have enough money to drive there and back. He would pay back the money the next day & he just worked in the nearby town. He came to our house because he saw the lights were on.
So I went and found my husband, gave him the lowdown, he immediately talks about "the gun" (didn't get it)but goes to the door and hears the same story.
Then he returns to the man with the money and tells him not to worry about paying him back and to go see his mother.
It's hard to say if this was some scam guy or not. He just came out of the blue. Have any of you heard of people doing this?
My husband thought since he only wanted 5 dollars that he was probably alright.
(Of course this whole senario leads me to a dream where bad guys barge into the movie theater I'm in and shoot me in the thigh.)
Lisa
John,
I read your comments about the Nephilim just being humans and I have to disagree with that theory and translation of scripture. Why were these people so huge if they were just normal people? Why does scripture mention these giants repeatedly if they were just large people? It leaves way to many unanswered questions. Many of the strange things in our history on this planet are much better explained by these creatures not being completely human. Everything from Greek mythology, to the impossible structures such as the Great Pyramid and the Temple of Jupiter at Baalbek (which is made of insanely big rocks that we couldn’t even move now with all our modern technology) to alien abductions, etc.
As for angels not being able to reproduce and creatures reproducing after their own kind, yes, that is how God designed things. That would be why Genesis emphasizes creatures reproducing after their own kind repeatedly. That being said, why did Moses emphasize repeatedly that creatures were reproducing after their own kind and everything being good in the beginning after creation and before man sinned?
I think this explains why God was angry enough to wipe out the whole planet with a flood when it became really corrupt. His law of creatures reproducing after their own kind was violated in an extreme way by the fallen angels. God wanted to wipe out this “demon-spawn” as well as the wickedness of man. Satan’s plan was to corrupt the line of man so that the Messiah could not be born of man. That is why Moses records that Noah was “perfect in his generations.” His bloodline was pure.
You said “I cannot see how angels could ever mate with humans to produce anything.”
I would suggest that Lucifer, next to God, is the most powerful creature in existence. He was probably present when God created the universe and he maybe even assisted. He probably knows more about creation than any other person other than God. I am sure he has the power to violate God’s law of reproduction (with God allowing it of course). Man is partway there now with the cloning of animals and the manipulating of DNA to create hybrid crosses between plants and between animals. Lucifer is way smarter than we are, so I would think he would have figured this out eons ago.
There are a couple of examples in the Bible of angels taking human form, so that makes it plausible that they could also mate with humans. Lot protected the two angels who visited him before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah from a crowd who wanted to rape them. If these two angels were not human at this point, what was Lot protecting them from and what was the crowd’s interest?
As for the sons of God being angels, here are a couple of verses that I think indicates this:
Job 1:6 (English Standard Version)
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
Job 2:1 (English Standard Version)
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD.
These passages in Job really make it sound to me like Satan was tagging along with the rest of the angels (sons of God) when they went to talk to God. I have heard the explanation made by some that these “sons of God” were just men, but I don’t think that makes any sense. This was after Adam and Eve had been thrown out of the Garden of Eden and man did not have direct access to present themselves to God anymore. If God wanted to talk to man at this point He could, but people had no ability to just present themselves to God. After all, no human has seen God.
This passage also from Job maybe the best evidence that the “sons of God”, at least in the Old Testament, refers to angels not to men:
Job 38:4-7 (English Standard Version)
4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell me, if you have understanding.
5 Who determined its measurements—surely you know!
Or who stretched the line upon it?
6 On what were its bases sunk,
or who laid its cornerstone,
7 when the morning stars sang together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
God is talking about when He created the earth in this passage. The “sons of God” could not have been men if they “shouted for joy” at the creation of the earth. Man was obviously not alive when the world was created, so the “sons of God” in this verse has to refer to angels or other beings that were alive with God when He created the earth.
I did a search of the Old Testament and everywhere I found the phrase “sons of God”, it does not refer to men. That being said, the following passage in Deuteronomy seems to contradict that in many translations:
Deuteronomy 32:7-8 (English Standard Version)
7 Remember the days of old;
consider the years of many generations;
ask your father, and he will show you,
your elders, and they will tell you.
8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
Most translations substitute “sons of Israel” or “children of Israel” for “sons of God” in verse 8. However, this makes no sense. I tend to use the ESV translation for most because it is one of the most literal translations of scripture (more so that the KJV and with less mistranslations) and it is the one we use at my church.
I ran across this explanation of this passage in Deuteronomy, which I think makes a lot of sense. It agrees with a lot of the other research I have done and the passages in Job which I quoted above:
Bene Ha 'Elohim Defined
Early Rabbis saw "bene ha 'elohim" as referring to righteous men, not as the "Sons of God." The Church fathers understood it as referring to the descendents of Seth. Both are kind of interesting because neither want to address that gods mated with humans and produced offspring.
The phrase "bene ha 'elohim" and its variant "bene 'elim" is found in other passages in the Bible, such as Job 1:6 and 2:1. Here, the Sons of God present themselves to Yahweh in the heavenly divine assembly. Job 38:7 says that the Sons of God have been with Yahweh at the creation of the world. They also appear in Psalm 89:7, where Yahweh is proclaimed incomparable to all other gods, and in Psalm 29:1 where the ""bene 'elim"" sing praises to Yahweh.
The passage in Deuteronomy (32:8) reads "When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided the sons of man. He established the borders of the peoples according to the number of "the sons of Israel"." The weird thing about this passage is how can the borders of all the peoples be established according to the sons of Israel when Israel hadn't already been established? The end seems to contradict the beginning. This contradiction doesn't appear in all Bibles, like the RSV based on the Greek Septuagint (dated from the 3rd century BCE), which state "according to the number of the Sons of God." This is also the wording in the Hebrew DSS version, which is now the oldest version of Deuteronomy we currently have, & what scholars now believe as the most authentic.
The implications are that the Sons of God are not just present at the beginning of the world, but also figure prominently in dividing nations. That implicates that while Yahweh chose Israel as his nation, each of the other Sons of God also received a nation to rule over.
END QUOTE
There are examples in the New Testament where Jesus says we will be the “sons of God”, but this is after our resurrection to our new bodies. The following verses are particularly important:
Luke 20:35-37 (English Standard Version)
35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
This verse says that we will be equal to the angels and are sons of God, being of the resurrection.
Paul talks about us being the “sons of God”:
Romans 8:13-15 (English Standard Version)
13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
He talks about being the sons of God if we are led by the Spirit of God, which we only receive after our acceptance of Christ. This would not apply to the people in the Old Testament.
Paul talks about us being revealed as the “sons of God” in the future:
Romans 8:18-24 (English Standard Version)
Future Glory
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19 For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
According to this passage, we are awaiting our adoption as sons and redemption of out bodies. So…I think if anything, the New Testament backs up the fact that “sons of God” are not mortals. They are creatures with “glorified” bodies.
As for God saying that angels do not marry or give in marriage, yes, that is God’s rule. However, that does not mean that some of the angels didn’t violate that rule. Angels have a free will just like we do. Unfortunately for the angels, the choice to rebel or follow God seems to be a one time choice, with no path for atonement like Christ provided man with.
Jib said, “the problem as I see it is that the nephilim have a grand total of one verse in the Bible.”
END QUOTE
While it is technically true, that the word “Nephilim” only appears in two verses in the Bible, this is misleading. The word “Nephilim” is translated as being “giants” or “fallen ones” depending on who you ask. There are plenty of references to these “creatures” in the Bible:
Genesis 6:4 (English Standard Version)
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
Numbers 13:32-33 (English Standard Version)
32 So they brought to the people of Israel a bad report of the land that they had spied out, saying, "The land, through which we have gone to spy it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of great height. 33 And there we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak, who come from the Nephilim), and we seemed to ourselves like grasshoppers, and so we seemed to them."
The passage above equates the Nephilim with the “sons of Anak.” Look at all the passages in the Bible that mention the sons of or descendants of Anak or Anakim:
Numbers 13:22 (English Standard Version)
22 They went up into the Negeb and came to Hebron. Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the descendants of Anak, were there. (Hebron was built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.)
Numbers 13:28 (English Standard Version)
28 However, the people who dwell in the land are strong, and the cities are fortified and very large. And besides, we saw the descendants of Anak there.
Deuteronomy 1:28 (English Standard Version)
28 Where are we going up? Our brothers have made our hearts melt, saying, "The people are greater and taller than we. The cities are great and fortified up to heaven. And besides, we have seen the sons of the Anakim there."'
Deuteronomy 2:21 (English Standard Version)
21 a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim; but the LORD destroyed them before the Ammonites, and they dispossessed them and settled in their place,
Deuteronomy 9:2 (English Standard Version)
2 a people great and tall, the sons of the Anakim, whom you know, and of whom you have heard it said, 'Who can stand before the sons of Anak?'
Joshua 11:21 (English Standard Version)
21 And Joshua came at that time and cut off the Anakim from the hill country, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the hill country of Judah, and from all the hill country of Israel. Joshua devoted them to destruction with their cities.
Joshua 11:22 (English Standard Version)
22 There was none of the Anakim left in the land of the people of Israel. Only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod did some remain.
Joshua 14:12 (English Standard Version)
12 So now give me this hill country of which the LORD spoke on that day, for you heard on that day how the Anakim were there, with great fortified cities. It may be that the LORD will be with me, and I shall drive them out just as the LORD said."
Joshua 14:15 (English Standard Version)
15 Now the name of Hebron formerly was Kiriath-arba. (Arba was the greatest man among the Anakim.) And the land had rest from war.
Joshua 15:13 (English Standard Version)
13 According to the commandment of the LORD to Joshua, he gave to Caleb the son of Jephunneh a portion among the people of Judah, Kiriath-arba, that is, Hebron (Arba was the father of Anak).
Joshua 15:14 (English Standard Version)
14 And Caleb drove out from there the three sons of Anak, Sheshai and Ahiman and Talmai, the descendants of Anak.
Joshua 21:11 (English Standard Version)
11 They gave them Kiriath-arba (Arba being the father of Anak), that is Hebron, in the hill country of Judah, along with the pasturelands around it.
Judges 1:20 (English Standard Version)
20 And Hebron was given to Caleb, as Moses had said. And he drove out from it the three sons of Anak.
Deuteronomy 2:10-11 (English Standard Version)
10 (The Emim formerly lived there, a people great and many, and tall as the Anakim.
11 Like the Anakim they are also counted as Rephaim, but the Moabites call them Emim.
You will notice in the last two verses I listed they say the Emim were a people as tall as the Anakim. These verses also say that they were also counted as Rephaim, but the Moabies call them Emim. So…we have two more synonyms for the Nephilim. There are another 17 verses in the Bible that mention Rephaim, but I won’t bother to list them all here. You get the point. Two of the more significant verses that talk about the Rephaim mention their giant King Og:
Deuteronomy 3:11 (English Standard Version)
11 (For only Og the king of Bashan was left of the remnant of the Rephaim. Behold, his bed was a bed of iron. Is it not in Rabbah of the Ammonites? Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its breadth, according to the common cubit.)
Deuteronomy 3:13 (English Standard Version)
13 The rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, the kingdom of Og, that is, all the region of Argob, I gave to the half-tribe of Manasseh. (All that portion of Bashan is called the land of Rephaim.
The following verse mentions that the Anakim, at this point in the book of Joshua, were no longer in Israel, but had been driven out to Gaza, Gath and Ashdod.
Joshua 11:22 (English Standard Version)
22 There was none of the Anakim left in the land of the people of Israel. Only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod did some remain.
Now what infamous person do we know from Gath?
1 Samuel 17:4 (English Standard Version)
4 And there came out from the camp of the Philistines a champion named Goliath of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.
That’s right, Goliath!
A cubit, depending on your sources, translates into anywhere from 17 ½ to 22 inches. A span is supposedly 9 inches (this would make sense as that would be about half a cubit). Eighteen or Eighteen and a half inches, seems to be the most widely held view of what a Hebrew cubit measured. So…if we take 18 inches as a cubit and 9 inches as a span, Goliath was 9 ft. 9 inches tall. I don’t know about you, but I can’t imagine a mere human being that big and still able to move quickly and fight in battle with very heavy weapons and armor on. There is almost no one on this planet presently that is even 8 feet tall despite our population being 5 billion or more people larger than it was in David’s day. The 3 or 4 people who are currently over 8 feet tall, look like they have been stretched and are out of proportion. They are slow, awkward, have back problems, other medical problems and are usually not very strong considering their size.
Goliath was small potatoes compared to the size of King Og if we are to assume his larger size from his bed length (9 cubits is 13 ft. 6 inches).
This following passage from 2 Samuel mentions more giants:
2 Samuel 21:15-22 (English Standard Version)
15 There was war again between the Philistines and Israel, and David went down together with his servants, and they fought against the Philistines. And David grew weary. 16 And Ishbi-benob, one of the descendants of the giants, whose spear weighed three hundred shekels of bronze, and who was armed with a new sword, thought to kill David. 17 But Abishai the son of Zeruiah came to his aid and attacked the Philistine and killed him. Then David’s men swore to him, "You shall no longer go out with us to battle, lest you quench the lamp of Israel."
18 After this there was again war with the Philistines at Gob. Then Sibbecai the Hushathite struck down Saph, who was one of the descendants of the giants. 19 And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob, and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim, the Bethlehemite, struck down Goliath the Gittite, the shaft of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam. 20 And there was again war at Gath, where there was a man of great stature, who had six fingers on each hand, and six toes on each foot, twenty-four in number, and he also was descended from the giants. 21 And when he taunted Israel, Jonathan the son of Shimei, David’s brother, struck him down. 22 These four were descended from the giants in Gath, and they fell by the hand of David and by the hand of his servants.
Giants are also mentioned in 1 Chronicles.
So…while the word “Nephilim” may only appear in two verses in the Bible (depending on the translation, the word’s many synonyms (giants, sons of Anak, Rephaim, etc.) appear in many places.
If we go back to the first verse in the Bible that mentions the Nephilim, it has an interesting parallel with the book of Jude:
Genesis 6:4 (English Standard Version)
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
Jude 1:6-8 (English Standard Version)
6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
8 Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones.
Genesis 6:4 talks about the Nephilim being on the earth in those days (before Noah’s flood) and also afterward (Goliath and he buddies), so the fallen angels were at it again after the flood. If these Nephilim were just normal people, the flood would have wiped them all out and that would have been the end of it. Obviously, they were reproducing again after the flood according to this verse.
Verse 6 above from Jude talks about some angels “leaving their position of authority and their proper dwelling” being kept in eternal chains in the gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day. The 7th verse of that same passage talks about the sexual sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, obviously drawing a parallel with what these angels had done. It would not make sense to mention this in the next verse if it didn’t relate to the angels not “keeping their position of authority.”
The following verse in Jude is also interesting:
Jude 1:13 (English Standard Version)
13 wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
It appears that this verse is equating these angels with “wandering stars” whom the gloom of utter darkness is reserved.
Also from Jude:
14 It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones,
This is a very important verse because it refers to the prophesies of Enoch. Enoch lived some of his life during the time of Noah. As far as we know, there are none of his prophesies in the canon of scripture. However, we do have the Book of Enoch. What is the topic that this book talks most about? It talks about fallen angels mating with women and corrupting mankind. Is this a coincidence? I don’t think so.
The last really interesting section Jude talks about scoffers in the last days:
17 But you must remember, beloved, the predictions of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ. 18 They said to you, "In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions."
I do not want to be one of these scoffers.
There is an interesting passage in 2 Peter that ties in Noah’s flood, the fallen angels who are chained in gloomy darkness (I believe Peter is specifically talking about the fallen angels that sexually sinned with woman before the flood) and Sodom and Gomorrah (which is an obvious reference to sexual sin):
2 Peter 2:4-6 (English Standard Version)
4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
Jesus makes a reference to the end times being like the times of Noah:
Luke 17:26-27 (English Standard Version)
26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.
So…if the times of Noah involved fallen angels mating with humans, as I think there is very strong evidence in the scriptures that this was the case, maybe this indicates that this will happen or maybe is happening in our time. That in my estimation makes it worth at least considering. I wonder if I should buy a sling shot?
For those of you who think I may be obsessed with Nephilim, this is the first Nephilim research I have done in several weeks. I just finished reading a book called, “What is Reformed Theology” by R.C. Sproul and I am currently reading “Mere Christianity” by C.S. Lewis. I am pretty sure there is no mention of Nephilim in either of these books. :-)
God Bless,
Harold
Boatman, Shalom! One of the articles you linked to had a link to another article that had something I had never considered before:
Another false dawn?
This opinion piece analyzes Cyprus. Frankly, I'd totally forgotten that Cyprus exists, except for being mentioned in prophecy. But I also remember there was a horrible bloody civil war on the island back in 1964, fought between the Greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots, which resulted in the island being divided. There's still lots of bad blood there, and a lot of birds are coming home to roost.
Simply put, the problem of a divided Cyprus is the biggest block to Turkish membership in EU than any other issue. Greek Cyprus is joining the EU and in a few weeks will be able to use its veto of Turkish membership to get a more favorable deal out of the Turkish Cypriots. If a deal to unify Cyprus cannot be agreed-upon by the Cypriots, Turkey will not become a member of the EU. I'm sure that once a deal IS made to unify Cyprus, then Turkish entry into the EU would follow within six months -- probably less.
<><
TexanForChrist, Shalom! I have to agree with you about "the calm before the storm." It's almost like tornado season. Every so often I want to look out the window to make sure the sky isn't turning green. It's knowing that something IS going to happen, but not knowing what or from what direction it's going to come.
<><
jim.carroll,
You said:
This opinion piece analyzes Cyprus. Frankly, I'd totally forgotten that Cyprus exists, except for being mentioned in prophecy.
Forgive me for my ignorance, but I don't recall Cyprus being mentioned in prophecy scriptures.
Would you mind giving the prophecy scriptures you are referring to.
I've only been to a few prophecy conferences.
Thank you.
John and Harold, thank you for this discussion. I am learning much from you both.
Harold, I have a question. If the fallen angels are currently mating with women, what would you expect from that union? As you pointed out, those who are 8ft or more today have health problems which prohibit great strength.
Could this be an indication that we are not as close to the last days as we think? I'm not hearing or reading about an abundance of children who are inordinately large or strong.
Genesis 6:4 (English Standard Version)
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
If we are watching for things to be like the times of Noah, it seems like the last days can't come until we see the results of fallen angels mating with women.
Your thoughts?
jim.carroll,
I don't want to be a pest, but I also wanted to ask you if Cyprus had another name in the Tanach.
I did a word search on Cyprus, but there were only 8 verses retrieved, all in the New Testament.
Thank you.
anonymous @ 6:03, can you please identify yourself?
Anne,
You touch on a very interesting point.
If you look into current statements made by New Age practitioners, they are looking for the "Nephilim" - they also call them the "Watchers" - to return, to herald the new age of enlightenment, and take Mankind to a new level of global consciousness.
That's why there is all this talk of "stargates" and aliens and UFO's etc.
My take on this is that Satan knows the signs of the times, knows that Jesus is coming back to collect the saints and take them out of here, and I think he is preparing mankind for the event by quietly feeding them the idea that alien beings are coming to earth, and I believe that the Rapture will be presented as being the result of these alien beings removing all those crazy fundamentalist "born-again" Christians, because they are what are stopping Mankind moving forward to this new age of enlightenment.
This is one reason why I think any focus on "Nephilim" and aliens, etc., is actually playing into a great deception of the enemy - to set the stage for a world after the Rapture that Satan can more easily take control of. That is also why I am convinced that the one world religion will be based on New Age teachings and ideas, rather than Islam.
I do not think that the "giants" in Genesis 6 have anything to do with "the days of Noah" - which were quite a long time afterwards.
Anyway, that's my take.
John
For the record, I believe the case for the "Sons od God" being angels outweighs the Sethites explanation in credibilty.
As The Days of Noah Were
Mischievous Angels or Sethites?
Harold, you and Grumpy haven’t come across as being obsessed over the nephilim at all. Tom Horn might be, but that’s probably more a business thing.
John, I'm not sure if I agree with you on the neph thing, but I do agree that this might be part of some type of deception to explain away the disappearance of so many during the rapture.
Even with UFO's, if they are real, I believe they're satanic. When was the last time that you heard about someone's great encounter with an alien. The stories are always of poking and proding and pain. No alien's ever come down to balance a check book, bring about world peace (can't happen anyway) or pay off my house.
Personally, I have no desire to read about them. I'm trying to keep my focus on Christ and like most of you, be a watchman on the wall.
Mac, I'm curious about our anonymous poster.... any response?
No response yet, Lori.
Harmless so far but I will go into action if the situation changes.
In fact, now might be a good time to enforce blue ID. What do you all think?
John, thanks for the input, but hold on! You said "I do not think that the "giants" in Genesis 6 have anything to do with "the days of Noah" - which were quite a long time afterwards." I've not heard this before. (Some say I spend too much time in a cave!) It seems to me according to the text that the days of Noah were contemporaneous with the Nephilim.
Gen 6:1 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in [1] man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” 4 The Nephilim [2] were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
Would you explain your thoughts on this further? Am I wrong?
I agree, Mac, go blue! When I see the grey anonymous it's like a jolt of lightning goes through me. No offense intended to anyone who has only good and innocent intentions.
Say, I wonder why we haven't heard from JustMe?
OK, I've gone blue. If the anony wants to stay anonymous but can give me an ID (post a comment on my blog) I might reverse it.
Well, at least there seems to be a discussion going on about these nephs! The whole thing sounds a bit out of whack..but who knows.
Lots of prominent BIble teachers seem to be leaning towards the possibility of all of this being accurate.
Personally, the whole thing gives me the creeps!
Anne,
I don’t mean to suggest that “fallen angels” are currently mating with humans. As you say, I haven’t seen any giants around. I was more thinking along the lines that this may soon start to happen “again”, possibly after the church has been raptured. However, there have are been a ridiculous amount of alien abduction accounts in the last few decades. Most of the people telling these stories seem to genuinely believe what they are saying.
The stories are usually very similar and as Campsmore said, they are always very negative experiences. They always seem to involve something to do with reproduction experiments being performed on the people abducted. You would think if these stories were made up, there would be at least some stories of people having fun with aliens. However, there doesn’t seem to be any.
I am also not suggesting I believe in these stories. If someone had asked me about alien abductions a few months ago, I would have said that anyone who claims they were abducted by aliens is nuts! However, after reading books by Thomas Horn, Patrick Heron, and L.A. Marzulli, I am not so sure. These people seem to have their heads on straight and they are all claiming that these reports are in fact fallen angels and evil spirits messing with mankind. This makes a lot of sense to me. I have always wondered how there could be that many crazy people on the planet. Maybe they are not so crazy. These supernatural beings maybe setting things up for a new round of deceptions.
It is interesting, and scary how close scientists are to cloning humans (maybe they already have and aren't telling us). They are crossbreeding animals right now, which is something that may have also been going on in Noah's time.
How does this relate to all this talk of Nephilim and fallen angels in the Bible? I guess the parallel is that there is evidence that this type of thing has happened before.
In Biblical times, there were all kinds of myths and legends that led people into all kinds of pagan religions and away from the one true God. I think this mythology of gods coming down to earth and mingling with humans etc. was all based on some truth. I think these gods were fallen angels. Satan is the ultimate counterfeiter, liar, and master of deception. He takes what God has made and he twists it. What better way for him and his fallen angels to lead people astray in Biblical times than to start all these myths about gods?
How does this relate to today? Well, now we have all this new age talk of aliens and alien abductions etc. instead of mythology.
I think John is totally correct. I think that after we are raptured, “aliens” who are actually these fallen angels or Satan’s army or whatever you want to call them are going to make an appearance and claim that they were responsible for creating us. They will claim responsibility for the disappearance of the church as well. It would totally fit in with much of this new age thinking that is becoming more and more prevalent. Popular author and militant atheist Richard Dawkins suggesting that aliens may have started the process that evolved us really demonstrates where the thinking of some people is at right now.
One of the reasons I talk about this stuff and keep an eye on it is because I would like to know what Satan is up to. God has his plan and that is what we should be concentrating on. However, Satan also has his plan, and it doesn’t hurt to get an idea of what that maybe. I want to be able to warn people of potential pitfalls and knowing the enemies game plan is helpful.
I also think there could be a connection to the December 21, 2012 date. There is so much talk something dramatic happening on this date that it would not surprise me at all if Satan performed some deception on that day. Can you imagine the reaction of people if “aliens” suddenly made their presence known, especially if we are gone and not here to point out the obvious delusion? Maybe this is part of the delusion that the apostle Paul talks about occurring in the end times.
Obviously, this is all speculation, but there is a lot of evidence to support this speculation.
Much of the Biblical evidence for the fallen angel’s activities in the past comes from the Book of Enoch. This is book is not canon, but the book of Jude refers to Enoch’s prophecies. To me this gives this book some credibility. Enoch lived just before Noah and was probably still on earth for some of Noah’s life. What was happening in Enoch’s day would still be occurring when Noah was alive before the flood. Enoch’s accounts do seem to line up perfectly with scripture. The book also discusses the fallen angels messing around with animals (mating with them) and crossing them with other animals.
If Enoch’s book in anyway contradicted the canon of scripture, I would thrown it out the window.
We do have to keep all this stuff in balance. Getting buried in the study of fallen angels etc. can be dangerous. You don’t want to be ignorant of this stuff, but having a heightened awareness of what evil lies around you has its own caveats. You don’t want to open yourself up to this stuff. I myself have on the rare occasion through studying this stuff sensed an increased sense of evil. I know this is when to back off, read some scripture and pray.
God Bless,
Harold
Good comment, Harold.
BTW I'm going to put up a new post soon as we're getting close to the 150, so keep a look out for it.
Hmmm. OK, I think you have both helped me (along with the links).
I probably won't study this much on my own, because I don't like to indulge in things like this. (like I said, I won't even watch scary stuff on tv) I'm satisfied, except for John's further comments.
Thank you for taking so much time to explain so well, John and Harold.
Good night, brothers and sisters. Sleep well!
I have to concur with Harold.
I have the book of Enoch and have read all I need to be convinced in the Nephilim subject.
When I read the Bible, about the Giants, what they did, how God delt with them-He was not telling us about them for no reason.
I believe he only tells us what he wants us to know and when we need to know it.
I'm not obsessed, or scared, or effected in anyway by knowing about Nephilim.
I find it interesting and it could explain so much about myths and mankinds past.I really don't have any desire to research anymore about it. I know enough-and do not care to know any secrets that Satan knows that God does not want us to know yet or ever.
I think that is where the danger lies.
Whether Nephilim will effect our future is yet to be seen.
Since I think satan still has "access" to heaven and the war in heaven has not happened yet in Revelation-then when that happens and he's cast down here for good-God may let these evil ones manifest themselves into human forms again.
(Of course for His own purposes)
Right now I just think evil spirits are able to possess a human but not take form and mate.
Do I know that as a fact. Of course not.
Could I possibly identify it if it happened in our life times? Maybe.
Could I identify it if I knew nothing about it? probably not.
So that's all I have to really say about Nephilim. Depending who you are trying to witness to- it could open up a person into a discussion of the Bible and then of course lead to salvation.
Some of you are not comfortable with the subject- so then don't go any further than the Bible.
As far as I'm concerned they are definately mentioned.
That's my 2 cents.
Lisa
Harold,
Regarding a pre-Adamic world that was destroyed by water, read 2 Peter 3:5-7:
5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Note that v5 tells us that the heavens and the earth "were of old", and the earth had seas and land masses - meaning they had been around a long time since Creation - i.e. a LOT more than 6000 years or so.
In the Greek the text for v6 reads:
through which the then existing world system [literally cosmos], by water having been deluged, was destroyed
This old world, that had been in existence since Creation (Genesis 1:1) was therefore, at some point after God created it, completely destroyed by water (Genesis 1:2). This could not have been Noah's Flood.
Please note that Noah's Flood did NOT destroy the earth, because shortly after the waters had subsided, Noah was able to start planting crops, and trees definitely survived the Flood (remember the dove that found an olive branch). At that point there were still sea creatures, land animals of every kind, and birds ready to to re-populate the earth, since these had been saved from the Flood by being with Noah in the Ark.
The world system that had been in operation before the Flood quickly re-established itself through the descendants of Noah's family.
Remember also that, according to the Word, only Noah was regarded as righteous by God - the only one left on earth by the time of the Flood - the only one who could still be called a "son of God".
God had mercy on him and allowed his immediate family to survive. It is very probable that amongst his sons-in-law one at least was a descendant of Cain (and therefore, according to my understanding, one of the "sons of men"), and therefore would carry the genes for giantism - which is why we later see the rise of the Anakim, who were renowned for being giants, and who eventually gave rise to Goliath and his brothers.
As far as your explanation that in the OT the term "sons of God" were angels, I have to strongly disagree. I believe that it only due to mans' traditions that people believe this.
The assumption in Job Ch 1-2 that the "sons of God" refer to angels is based on the false understanding that Satan still has entry to Heaven - the passage in Revelation 11:7-9 makes it clear that there was no place found in Heaven for him, and he is no longer able to go before the Throne of God in Heaven (which is perfectly logical, since nothing evil can exist in God's presence in Heaven, including fallen angels, Lucifer included).
Lucifer MUST have been kicked out of Heaven before Adam and Eve were created, simply because he is first introduced to us as the enemy of God in Genesis 3:1. If he was already banned from Heaven and thrown down to the earth, how on earth is he supposed to be able to wander in and out of Heaven, as tradition asks us to believe happened in Job 1.
Rather, Satan is on (or "in") the earth - trapped here since his Fall and is only able to walk about on the earth (Job 1:7) (in accordance with the prophesy given by God to Eve - Genesis 3:14-15), therefore, in Job Ch 1, what we see is the Throne of God appearing on (or above) the earth, to give audience to the righteous men alive on the earth during Job's lifetime - the occasion has nothing to do with angelic beings or Heaven.
This occurrence, where the Throne of God comes down to earth, is described in Scripture on several other occasions, when Isaiah sees the Throne of God (Isaiah 6:1-3); when Ezekiel sees the Throne of God (Ezekiel Ch1, Ch10); and when Daniel sees the Throne of God in Daniel 7:9. You know these events are describing the Throne of God, because they match the description in Revelation 4. Thus we can see that God's Throne is not limited to Heaven, but can move between Heaven and Earth at will.
The term "sons of God" refers throughout Scripture to righteous men (and women) living on the earth
If you search the New Testament, the term "sons of God" ALWAYS and ONLY refers to born-again believers (as does the term "children of God"), never angels. Scripture is always consistent, therefore the reference in the OT must mean the same.
Paul is absolutely clear that the born-again believers are sons (and daughters) of God - and he puts this squarely in the now, not in the future, in Romans 8:14:
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.".
If that is not enough, in John 1:11-12, it says that we who are born gain are given the right to call ourselves the "children of God":
"12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
In Luke 20:36, Jesus makes a clear distinction between angels and born again believers, saying:
"... nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection."
However, I am sure that whatever I said would convince you that "Nephilim" are not the offspring of fallen angels, so I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
God bless you,
John
While I lean towards John's explanation of the sons of God, daughters of men, etc, I am glad that we are able to openly discuss this here and that people seem comfortable with it.
Thanks for the explanations! I appreciate all of the info and links!
You all are awesome!
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