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149 comments:
I think this is the first time I've been first on any list!
Blessings! (Mary)
Blast! Missed it by two minutes!
Anne, Shalom! This is in reply to something you wrote on the last blog. I think the idea of "Nephilim" (Nephilii?) appearing again as in the days of Noah refer to a "type" rather than a specific example. What I mean is, the Nephilim resulted from the union of two separate species. What we have today is the potential unions of different species through the use of genetic manipulation. On the one hand, we now have cats that glow in the dark; on the other hand, we have Britain enacting legislation to prohibit mixing non-human genetic material with human genetic material. It's only a matter of time before some researcher announces that they've cured some genetic deformity by using gene therapy to splice in bovine (cow) or porcine (pig) genetic material.
To those who are wondering about Cyprus in Biblical prophecy, Cyprus is called "Kittim" or "Chittim". I have read some sources that claim that "Kittim" is sometimes used as a catch-all name for "all those strange people from the ocean to the west," but I cannot verify that.
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interesting choice of scripture.
notice it says boldly-how often do you all approach God boldly? I must admit I more often approach timidly-goes with that whole you have not because you ask not thing more than likely.
flying out tomorrow.
Well, I have discussed enough Nephilim stuff for awhile, so how about something else to bend our minds? This is somewhat relate.
I should apologize to Jim right off the bat because much of this post concerns the Catholic Church. Please do not shoot the messenger. :-)
Joel Richardson is the author of a book I have mentioned and posted about in the past called "Antichrist: Islam's Awaited Messiah." I really enjoyed the book and it really got me to thinking that the religion of the Antichrist is going to be Islam, or at the very least Islam is going to play a big part.
Joel Richardson has a blog site called "Joel's Trumpet" which frequently has interesting posts and comments on it.
Grumpy sent me a link to one of these comments that was very interesting. The comment was made by a guy who calls himself Joe Gringo. Joe is a Roman Catholic and he thinks that Mary and Mohammad's daughter Fatima provide a strong link between Islam and Roman Catholicism. Joe seems to think that this is a positive connection and it will help to bridge the gap and help convert Muslims to Catholicism. I strongly disagree that this is a positive link, but I think Joe maybe right about it helping to merge the two religions.
Grumpy mentioned something to me the other day about the Whore of Babylon mentioned in Revelation 17 being the Catholic Church and the Beast she is riding on being Islam. The Beast eventually turns on the Whore of Babylon and devours her. This makes a lot of sense to me. Again, sorry Jim. :-)
Anyways, here is the post by Joe Gringo on Joel's Trumpet:
Currently I am in the RCIA program at our Catholic church (catholic conversion), this is obviously a big week for all in this program, we have been asked to choose a confirmation name, usually a saint’s name, I believe I am going to choose Pope St. Pius V for various reasons. In my research of St. Pius V, I came across something interesting by Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, it is written that Muslims will be converted to Christianity, in a way that missionaries never suspect, here is the argument:
The Koran has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First, the Koran believes in her Immaculate Conception and in her Virgin Birth. The third chapter of the Koran places the history of Mary’s family in a genealogy that goes back through Abraham, Noah, and Adam. When one compares the Koran’s description of the birth of Mary with the apocryphal Gospel of the birth of Mary, one is tempted to believe that Mohammed very much depended upon the latter.
Both books describe the old age and the definite sterility of Anne, the mother of Mary. When, however, Anne conceives, the mother of Mary is made to say in the Koran: “O Lord, I vow and I consecrate to you what is already within me. Accept it from me.”
When Mary is born, her mother, Anne, says: “And I consecrate her with all of her posterity under thy protection, O Lord against Satan!”
The Koran has also verses on the Annunciation, Visitation, and nativity. Angels are pictured as accompanying the Blessed Mother and saying, “O Mary, God has chosen you and purified you, and elected you above all the women of the earth.”
In the nineteenth chapter of the Koran, there are forty-one verses on Jesus and Mary. There is such a strong defense of the virginity of Mary here that the Koran, in the fourth book, attributes the condemnation of the Jews to their monstrous calumny against the Virgin Mary.
Mary, then, is for the Muslims the true ‘Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed himself. However, after the death of Fatima, Mohammed wrote: “Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary.”
In a variant of the text, Fatima is made to say, “I surpass all the women, except Mary.”
This brings us to our second point, namely, why the Blessed Mother, in this twentieth century (1950), should have revealed herself in the insignificant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations she would be known as “Our Lady of Fatima.”
Nothing ever happens out of heaven except with a finesse of all details. I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as “Our Lady of Fatima” as a pledge and a sign of hope to the Muslim people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her Divine Son, too.
Evidence to support these views is found in the historical fact that the Muslims occupied Portugal for centuries. At the time when they were finally driven out, the last Muslim chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima.
A catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him she not only stayed behind when the Moslems left, but even embraced the Catholic faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he lived to Fatima. Thus, the very place where Our Lady appeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed.
The final evidence of the relationship of Fatima to the Muslims is the enthusiastic reception that the Muslims in Africa and India and elsewhere gave to the Pilgrim statue of Our Lady of Fatima. Muslims attended the Catholic services in honor of Our Lady; they allowed religious processions and even prayers before their mosques; and in Mozambique the Muslims, who were unconverted, began to be Christian as soon as the statue of Our Lady of Fatima was erected.
Missionaries in the future will increasingly see that their apostolate among the Muslims will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Because the Muslims have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion with the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her Divine Son.
As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the Divinity of Christ, so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.
END QUOTE
I recently read a book called “Politics, Prophecy, & The Supernatural” by L.A. Marzulli. Among other things, it talks about the Fatima Apparition that Joe discussed above. The following is from this book:
Politics, Prophecy, & The Supernatural – Fatima as a Harbinger of Deception
Before entering the strange and enigmatic world of Marian apparitions, I want to set something straight (for the record). In no way do I intend to demean those who believe in, or have faith in, these apparitions. There are many sincere people who believe that these manifestations are what they appear to be: that of Mary.
I, however, have a completely different take on the subject and, like others who have delved into the events (including some Catholic priests), believe that these apparitions might be a deception by Luciferian/Satanic elements. Keeping this in mind, we will focus on one particular event that happened in the Fatima, Portugal, in 1917. This event has been “approved” by the church and has been a source of inspiration and faith for millions of Christians. (By church approval I mean that the event of Fatima has been examined by the Catholic church and deemed to conform to the true teachings of Jesus Christ and is in harmony with church teachings.)
Again, the purpose of the following discussion is not to denigrate but rather to express my utmost concern that the events in question may, in fact, be a harbinger of deception.
In my research for the Nephilim Trilogy, I found myself in some pretty strange areas of study. One area that piqued my interest in particular was the Fatima apparitions that took place in the early part of the twentieth century. For those of you who are unfamiliar with these events, I will provide a thumbnail sketch. This is an accounting that comes from having read multiple sources regarding the event.
In 1917 three children (who would later become known as seers), Lucia Santos and her two cousins Francesco and Jacinta Marto, were tending sheep when they beheld an apparition of, what it would later refer to itself as, “a lady from heaven.” The apparition told them to come to the same place – Cova da Iria (Irene’s Cove, a place located near the town of Fatima, Portugal) – on the thirteenth day of the following month. The children told their parents about what they had seen and this set off an uproar in the town. The apparitions continued for months, finally culminating in the local priest instructing the children to ask the apparition for a sign.
They did as they were asked, and the apparition told them that the following month, which was October, there would be a sign, for all to see. The next month upwards of seventy thousand people gathered in the field at Cova do Iria. It had been raining all day, and there was a thick layer of clouds overshadowing the crowd.
A cross section of humanity gathered that day: bankers, peasants, clergy, bakers, young, old, reporters, believers, and skeptics alike all waited for the sign that the apparition had promised would appear. The appointed time for the “sign” to manifest, which was noon, came and went, and nothing happened. The crowd grew restless.
An hour passed and one of the “seers” called out, “It’s the Lady.” The crowed could not see her, but the children apparently did, and everyone waited to see what would happen next. The dark sky suddenly parted to reveal what many onlookers described as “the sun.” It spun around throwing off an array of colors and then, to the terror of everyone, began to fall in a pendulum like motion to earth. What followed was mass hysteria, as people thought the end of the world was upon them. Some dropped to their knees, while others ran about screaming hysterically. (This event is now called, “the Miracle in the Sun.”)
The “sun” then began to ascend to its rightful place in the heavens, and when it had departed, the crowd realized that their clothes, which had been soaked by the constant rain, were dry. Most everyone in the crowd that day had his or her worldview altered for all time – many choosing to believe in the apparition that called herself the Lady from Heaven. Imagine yourself standing in that field and experiencing what would later be hailed as, “The Miracle of the Sun.” Would you examine your belief system? If you were of another faith, perhaps Judaism, would this event cause you to wonder as to what you were seeing? If you were an atheist, would not seeing the “miracle of the sun” make you pause and consider that there may be an unseen world? And finally, if you were Catholic, how would it affect you? Would you start going to church everyday or maybe join the priesthood or a convent?
Remember in 1917 the word “UFO” or “flying saucer” was not in the lexicon of the local inhabitants. Those terms would come later in the twentieth century. The people who saw the “Miracle of the Sun” had no reference point, nothing in their realm of experience to compare with at what they were looking. I realize that the Catholic Church has embraced the apparitions, and the previous Pope, Pope John Paul II, credited the failure of his assassination attempt to “Our Lady of Fatima.” He also entrusted the world to the “Lady of Fatima.”
However, one must remember that the Pope is a man and that the priests, bishops, and clergy who witnessed the event were also men and that all of us are, in fact, not infallible. In their two coauthored books “Heavenly Lights: The Apparitions and The UFO Phenomenon” and “Celestial Secrets: The Hidden History of the Fatima Cover-Up”, Portuguese historians Dr. Joaquim Fernades and Fina d’Armada cite eyewitness accounts of the Fatima event. I have included these eyewitness accounts form “Heavenly Lights” because they add an important perspective that was not addressed in my previously provided thumbnail sketch.
Eyewitness Testimonies of the Event as Taken from Heavenly Lights
Jose’ Proence De Almeida Garret, A Lawyer: Moments before, the sun had broken overhead through a dense layer of clouds that would have otherwise hidden it, allowing it to shine clearly and intensely. I turned toward that magnet that attracted every gaze, and I could see that it was similar to a disk with a distinct and lively border, luminous and lucent, but harmless.
Newspaper, Beira Baiza: The sun uncovered itself, and had a diverse gradation, appearing sometimes like a solar globe…enclosed by an aureole of flames, other times a metallic disk as if of silver.
Mario Gohino, an Engineer: In a radiant sky, the Sun could be looked at straight-on and which with eyes wide open, without blinking, as if we were looking at a disk of polished glass illuminated from behind, with a rainbow of iridescence on its periphery, seeming to have a rotating movement….And the Sun did not have the brilliance that hurt our eyes on normal days, as it was a majestic disk, magnetic, which attracted us and sort of revolved in the immense sky….
Raio de Luz, a Religious Periodical of the Time: Suddenly a luminous disk, the size of a great host, but one which could be gazed upon as one gazes at the moon, appeared, as if it stood out from the Sun, descending visibly…
Gilberto Dos Santos: I saw the Sun, seeming a dull, silver disk, but more luminous than the moon.
Maria Romana: The Sun gave the appearance of a globe of dull silver fire, surrounded by a very dark purplish disk.
Ana Maria Camara: I saw a very clear, silvery blue disk, without rays…
More eyewitness accounts could be cited, but I think the point has been made. This official version of the story was packaged in the religious terminology, specifically Catholic dogma, of the day. What I mean by Catholic dogma is that the apparition was declared to be Mary, the mother of Jesus. Authors Fernandes and d’Armada have researched this aspect and, according to them, they believe that there was a rush to judgment in this regard. They have interviewed a fourth witness to the events that until recently had been overlooked. However, based on the multiple descriptions of a “silver disk” and a “sun” that did not have the blinding qualities of the sun, it appears from the eyewitness accounts above that what people were looking at was a craft of some sort. I believe that if you or I could somehow transport ourselves back to 1917 in Fatima, Portugal, we would point overhead and say, “I can’t believe it, a flying saucer!” or maybe, “Look at that, a UFO…”
Yet, despite all the hype over this life-changing, Fatima event, what is extremely disturbing is that there are photographs of everything buy the key element of this “event.” There are photographs of the crowd, standing in the rain. There are photographs of the three children both before and after the phenomenon. There are photographs of everything but the actual object itself. I know this because I actually went looking for any photographic proof of the “Miracle of the Sun.” I called a center in Canada that specializes in the Fatima apparitions. I asked if there were photographs of the event.
The woman I spoke with assured me that there were; however, when I pressed her to produce some, she was unable to do so. I called back several times and the story was the same: “The photos are around somewhere, but right now I can’t find them.” After a month or so, she confided in me that she found it strange that none existed. I also spoke to someone, off the record, who has researched the Fatima apparitions, and he informed me that he had never seen a photograph of the “Miracle in the Sun” (source protected).
After being on the Coast to Coast program with host George Noorney, I was contacted by a woman, via the Internet, who produced a picture of the event. However, it was a photograph taken that day of the sun in the clouds, but nothing atypical could be seen in it.
One extremely interesting aspect of the Fatima apparitions was the secrets that were told to the seers. There were three secrets in total, and the first two were revealed to the public. One of which was a vision of hell and the other a request to “consecrate” Russia, or there would be turmoil in the world, and Russia would spread her errors (Communism?) throughout the world.
The third and final secret was recorded in a letter and was supposed to be revealed publicly after 1960. It was not and caused speculation both inside and outside the Catholic church as to the letter’s contents. Pope John Paul II finally revealed it on June 6, 2000, and, in doing so, created controversy regarding the authenticity of the secret. The Pope declared that the secret had to do with an assassination attempt of his life and the persecution of the Catholic Church. There are those within the church that believed that what the Pope read was not the third secret, hence the controversy.
The lone surviving visionary, Lucia, had been in a Carmelite convent for most of her life, which prevented her from talking to anyone because of her vows. She remained silent until her death.
So why am I bringing all this to your attention? In my opinion the “secrets” of Fatima drew people away form biblical truth. They usurped the authority of scripture with extrabiblical revelations. Why else would Pope John Paul II dedicate the world to “Our Lady of Fatima”? This one supernatural event, that of the Fatima apparition, which is controversial at best, shifted millions of peoples’ belief from the solidity of biblical scripture to the “visions” of the three seers who may have been part of a great deception.
Here are some interesting questions that I raise regarding the event/
1. Since there are photographs of the various details of the event, just not the object that appeared, we know that there were photographers at Cova do Iria on October 13, 1917. So where are the photographs of the “miracle of the sun”?
2. Why was the surviving seer, Lucia, whisked off to a convent and essentially silenced?
3. Why have the revelation or “secrets” of Fatima seemed to have overshadowed the relevancy of biblical scripture?
4. Why was the testimony of many eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen a disk ignored?
Since 1917 the events that transpired at Fatima changed the worldview of millions of people. The “Miracle of the Sun” lasted less than half an hour; yet, the event continues to affect millions of people around the world.
What I take umbrage with is that the revelations of Fatima – the secrets that I mentioned earlier, especially the third secret – have usurped the Bible as the source of truth, and in its place provided “secrets” that play upon the superstitions and gullibility of the masses. What is interesting is that some of the clergy of the Catholic Church stat the third secret has never been revealed. Although the Pope John Paul II claimed to have read the third secret in 2001, there are those within the church that believe it was not the secret written down by the seer, Lucia. What is more, if this secret is so important to the church, then why was not it read when it was supposed to be in 1960?
END QUOTE
I ran across this very interesting article about the Pope believing the Lady of Fatima protected him from assassination:
POPE REVEALS THIRD FATIMA SECRET - MAY.13, 2000
I think the Lady of Fatima could definitely be a big connection between Roman Catholicism and Islam in the end times. If you do any googling on the topic, you will find tons of information.
God Bless,
Harold
Hyde,
You could have told us you put up a new post!
Harold - you're killing me man with the novel-like comments! Just kidding - keep em coming!
It's going to take me forever to catch up, it' a good thing I just downed 2 energy drinks & feel like staying up all night.
Lisa - I agree 100% with your last comment. I couldn't have said it better, it's like you plucked the thoughts right out of my head.
Now off to read the rest...
alesia,
Sorry for the long posts. I took a sick day today (I have been fighting a cold all week), so I had some time on my hands. :-)
I have a lot of reading to catch up on so that should be the end of the long posts for awhile.
Jesus is my hope and trust
Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting? For sin is the sting that results in death, and the law gives sin its power. How we thank God, who gives us victory over sin and death through Jesus Christ our Lord!
1 Corinthians 15:55-56 NLT
Jesus lives, and so shall I: Death, thy sting is gone forever! He for me hath deigned to die, lives the bands of death to sever. He shall raise me from the dust: Jesus is my hope and trust.
Jesus Lives, and So Shall I
Christian Furchtegott Gellert (1715-1769)
Just a happy ending?
What difference does Christ's resurrection make? Is it just a happy ending to an otherwise tragic tale? No, of course not. Jesus had to rise, as Peter eloquently stated at Pentecost. It was impossible for death to defeat the Lord of life. The Resurrection proves that Jesus was the Son of God. Our faith is built on this solid foundation. As Paul wrote, "If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.…If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men" (1 Corinthians 15:17, 19).
But He has risen! And as Jesus promised His disciples, "Because I live, you also will live" (John 14:19).
Without Christ, human life is merely prolonged death. Everything is decaying. But Jesus gives us eternal life, which radically changes our life on earth. Not only do we have eternity to look forward to, but we have the power to live in right relationship with God and others right now in our daily lives. Jesus is our hope for the future and our trust for each day. Praise Him!
Morning everyone,
I found this interesting story about the "cult of Kim Jong Il" in N Korea on WND. I'll copy the paragraph I thought was most intriguing....I can't imagine having to practice my faith in such a secretive way.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=60043
"The state is working hard to wipe out Christianity," said Open Doors USA spokesman Jerry Dykstra. "Nowhere in the world is such a high price paid as in this country with its tyrannical regime," he said.
A man identified only as "Brother Simon" told the Christian ministry from a secret location inside North Korea that a holiday such as Christmas is celebrated by Christians who gather in groups of two, to keep underneath the radar that alerts authorities.
"For example (on an ordinary Sunday), a Christian goes and sits on a bench in the park. Another Christian comes and sits next to him. Sometimes it is dangerous even to speak to one another, but they know they are both Christians, and at such a time, this is enough. If there is no one around, they may be able to share a Bible verse which they have learned by heart and briefly say something about it. They also share prayer topics with each other. Then they leave one another and go and look for Christians in some other part of their town. This continues throughout Sunday. A cell group usually consists of fewer than 20 Christians who encourage and strengthen one another in this way. Besides this, there are one-to-one meetings in people's homes," Simon said."
Blessings,
Jen
Interesting, Harold.
The whole Mary thing is big.
My mother in law for one has gone to Lourdes many times. Lots of Catholic women especially go to these spots.
I agree....it has led them away from the gospel. More attention has been focused on Mary than on Christ.
Its really sad.
Harold,
The Mary/Islam connection is very intriguing!
I do keep up on Joel's Trumpet site. He does post great info. The only thing I disagree w/him on is the Rapture timing. (although I am beginning to think there may be more than one during the Tribulation.) I think he is also Catholic or has a close association with them. I tried to pin him down on it once. Many of his thoughts & findings do come from that source.
We just have to remember that we are living in the material earthly realm but are at war with the spiritual realm. Since we know so little about the other dimensions that co-exist with ours-we are at a severe disadvantage. Our only hope is putting everything we've got on the shoulder's of our King Jesus and having the Holy Sprirt guide us. Only if we sincerely do that can we turn our disadvange into THE real advantage.
True Christianity is being attacked on so many different levels we can't even begin to grasp the magnitude of it.
We discover bits and pieces here and there. If we really knew what was going on all at once-I don't know that we could mentally handle it.
I think of it in terms of a parallel universe. Satan uses a parallel deception.
So hang on tight to the King-this is one wild ride-can you even appreciate that we were born in this generation of "The last days"? Wow.
Jesus will reveal to us everything we need at exactly the precise time.
Meanwhile-I do appreciate the discussions on the "bits and pieces" that are discovered.
Lisa
Jen, the article on Kim Jong Il reminded me of something I saw last September in the English North Korean online paper:
Spirit of Defending Leader with Very Life Displayed in Flood-hit Areas
Pyongyang, September 7 (KCNA) -- The recent unprecedented heavy rains triggered off flood and landslide in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, causing heavy human and material losses.
But the flood-victims directed attention to protecting the portraits of President Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il than their families.
I won't quote the whole article, but it would be quite funny if it weren't so tragic.
OK, I just tried to use the link and it only took me to today's "news". So here is the article from last Sept.
Spirit of Defending Leader with Very Life Displayed in Flood-hit Areas
Pyongyang, September 7 (KCNA) -- The recent unprecedented heavy rains triggered off flood and landslide in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, causing heavy human and material losses.
But the flood-victims directed attention to protecting the portraits of President Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il than their families.
The torrential rains on August 9 submerged the township area of Hoeyang County. Over a thousand families there were evacuated to safety places. They came there, carrying not their properties but the portraits of the President and the leader.
Students of Koksan County School for Agricultural Skilled Workers and people in the county defended the picture of smiling President from the downpour.
Ri Chun Hwa, a worker of the Changdo County Clothing Factory, brought over 1,500 books carrying the images of the great men of Mt. Paektu, from the County Publication Circulation Office to a safe place through torrents of water at the risk of her life.
Many people including People's Security officer Choe Myong Gil in Ichon County and teacher of Ichon Middle School No. 1 Hwang Myong Ok rushed in public buildings and dwelling houses without hesitation to save portraits, realizing that they would soon crumble.
Among such people are peasant of the Jongdong Co-op Farm in Phyonggang County Cha Hyang Mi who handed over portraits to rescuers and went to the bottom of the torrent water, peasant of the same farm Pak Jong Ryol who lost his wife and child by landslide but saved the portraits and worker of the Ichon Foodstuff Factory Kang Hyong Gwon who firmly took portraits in his hands in flood though his five-year-old daughter slipped down from his back.
After the flood, corpses were dug out of the silt. Found out in their bosom were portraits wrapped with vinyl sheets to prevent them from being spoiled by water.
It is the just outlook on life of the Korean people to enjoy their existence, dignity and happiness in the effort for defending the leader at the cost of their lives.
Alesia,
I know I said no more long posts for awhile and I meant it when I said it, but I had to break that promise. I hope it is worth it. :-)
John,
You can always find a translation of scripture to support just about any view of the Bible you want to take. That does not make it correct. As I mentioned previously, I tend to use the ESV version because it is one of the most literal translations of scripture and it is quite readable. It corrects many of the mistranslations of the KJV. I always try to state the version I take scripture from in my comments.
You quoted the following passage as proof of the pre-Adamic flood:
2 Peter 3:1-7 (English Standard Version)
1 This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, 3 knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation." 5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
When I read this passage, it is very clear to me that it is talking about Noah’s flood. There is no reason to think otherwise, even if Peter didn’t mention Noah by name in this passage. It wasn’t Noah’s flood after all, it was God’s.
You are always the one talking about making sure to check what the “context” of a passage of scripture is.
So…this passage is clearly talking about scoffers denying creation and “Noah’s” flood in the last days. This is exactly where we are right now. Many, if not most liberal Christians deny creation and “Noah’s” flood right now. I have debated many of them. Denying creation and Noah’s flood go hand in hand. Just about every person I know who believes in evolution instead of creation also denies Noah’s flood.
This passage does not make any sense if it is talking about a pre-Adamic flood. Most Christians have never even heard of this theory, let alone non-Christians. There is nothing for them to deny if they haven’t even heard of it. Denying a pre-Adamic flood in no way effects the accuracy of the Bible or the truthfulness of scripture. Denying Noah’s flood on the other hand puts the whole Bible in question. Noah’s flood is so central to scripture that denying it and creation invalidates the whole Bible as far as I am concerned. In my view, this is definitely what Peter is talking about here. He is warning us about what the last days will be like. I don’t think denying a pre-Adamic flood effects any doctrine in the Bible or is a sign of the last days.
God destroyed the earth once by water during Noah’s time and this passage tells us that God will destroy it once again but by fire this time.
As for arguing that God did not totally destroy the earth with Noah’s flood, I would have to disagree. The only animals or people that survived were the ones that were on the Ark. As for plants growing after the water subsided, what is your point? I don’t think God was angry at the plants and trying to destroy them. Maybe God replanted them while Noah was in the Ark waiting for the water to subside?
The earth was created for man, so if man was destroyed and the animals were destroyed, the earth is effectively destroyed. What would be its purpose for existing after that? One just has to look at the layers of rock strata that were heaped up during the flood to realize the total destruction that the flood brought with it. Mountains were flattened and mountains were formed. Entire continents were moved or arguably formed at the time of the flood. I would call that pretty much destroying the planet.
Genesis 6:13 (English Standard Version)
13 And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
This passage says “I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:17 (English Standard Version)
17 For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life under heaven. Everything that is on the earth shall die.
He said “destroy all flesh” and “everything that is on the earth shall die.” That sounds like God destroyed everything.
Genesis 9:11 (English Standard Version)
11 I establish my covenant with you, that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth."
This passage seems to indicate that God destroyed the earth during Noah’s flood. He said “never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.”
The following passage in Genesis records the state of the earth before the beginning of creation:
Genesis 1 (English Standard Version)
1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
This tells me that the planet was covered with water before God separated water from land. I don’t see any indication that it was recovering from having been previously destroyed.
If we continue in Genesis:
Genesis 1:3-10 (English Standard Version)
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." 7 And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. 8 And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
In this passage, God creates light and then he separates it from the darkness. If the world had already existed before this and was destroyed by God as you say, why did He have to recreate light? Moses records “And God saw that the light was good.” It sounds like God is taking some pride in his work here and rightly so. Does it make sense that He would be proud of His work if He had already done all this before and destroyed it?
When God called the light Day and the darkness Night, were these names He had already used when the earth was previously created and destroyed as you attest to?
When God separates the dry land from the Sea, He also appears to be taking pride in his work. Again, would this be the case if He had already done all this once before?
I am not sure what the point in believing in a Pre-Adamic flood is. It buys you nothing and doesn’t help explain anything Biblical or anything that is in any way relevant to us today. It creates way more questions than it answers.
As for Lucifer being cast down to earth, I don’t believe this has happened yet. As for Revelation 11:7-9 talking about the beast rising from the pit, how do you know this is Lucifer that is referenced?
Consider this passage:
Revelation 9:11 (English Standard Version)
11 They have as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit. His name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek he is called Apollyon.
Who is this Apollyon angel? The passage says that he is the king over the bottomless pit. If Lucifer was down there now, he would definitely be the king down there. Some people may argue that Apollyon is Lucifer. If so, why is this name not used anywhere else in the Bible? Why doesn’t this passage just say Satan or Lucifer? Why the different name?
You believe that Satan has been cast out of heaven to earth already. If that is the case, then this certainly can’t be Satan in the bottomless pit. If he was currently in the bottomless pit, he couldn’t be making trouble for the rest of us or be able to tempt Christ while He was on earth.
Satan is thrown down to earth in Revelation 12:7-9 which is after the passage you talk about in Rev 11 and after the passage I quoted above from Revelation 9:
Revelation 12:7-9 (English Standard Version)
7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world— he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
If Revelation is in chronological order, as I believe it is, how could Satan be cast down after he has already been imprisoned on earth or in the Abyss? If you think Revelation is not in chronological order, it would be next to impossible to figure any of it out.
I would suggest that this Apollyon is one of the fallen angels that were locked up in the Abyss after sexually sinning with the daughters of man (creating the Nephilim). They are mentioned in this passage from Jude:
Jude 1:6 (English Standard Version)
6 And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day—
I believe these are the fallen angels that had children with woman before the flood that are locked up. I do not know what God did with the angels who sinned with woman after the flood.
You said “Lucifer MUST have been kicked out of Heaven before Adam and Eve were created, simply because he is first introduced to us as the enemy of God in Genesis 3:1. If he was already banned from Heaven and thrown down to the earth, how on earth is he supposed to be able to wander in and out of Heaven, as tradition asks us to believe happened in Job 1.”
I do not see in Genesis 3 where it states that Lucifer is an enemy of God, but it is certainly implied and I definitely believe it to be the case at that point. However, this in no way proves that he had been cast down to earth at this point and was “trapped” here. He and his angels had definitely rebelled at this point, but I do not believe they had been thrown out of all parts of heaven. I believe Satan and his angels still have access to certain parts of heaven at this point.
Let’s look at Revelation 12 again:
Revelation 12:7-17 (English Standard Version)
7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8 but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world— he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!"
13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.
This is the account of Satan and his angels being thrown down to earth. Look at verse 10 again:
10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.
This verse says “the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.” Who was Satan accusing before God if he was thrown down to earth before man was even created as you attest? This passage indicates that Satan was accusing man before God day and night. This passage makes it sound like he was in heaven accusing us, but now he is finally thrown down to earth in this passage and everyone in heaven is rejoicing because of it.
This account definitely references back to Job where Satan was going to and fro on the earth looking for where he could case trouble.
Job 1:6-12 (English Standard Version)
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "From where have you come?" Satan answered the LORD and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it." 8 And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?" 9 Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "Does Job fear God for no reason? 10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face." 12 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.
Verse 12 says that Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. I highly doubt that this was the presence of the LORD on earth. The passage to me strongly suggests that this was God in heaven.
If we get back to the previous passage in Revelation 12, verse 10 also talks about the authority of Christ. This verse would not talk about the authority of Christ unless it was after his death and resurrection and He had reclaimed the deed to the earth.
If we look at Revelation 12:12-13 again:
12 Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!"
13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.
This is an account of Satan being thrown down to earth, being very angry (as he knows his time is short) and taking it out on the children of Israel. If you read verse 17 of the same chapter:
17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.
This sounds like an account of Satan talking his wrath out on the “Tribulation Saints” because God is supernaturally protecting the children of Israel in Petra when they flee to the wilderness to escape the Antichrist’s wrath.
I share author Patrick Heron’s view of Satan being cast down to earth at the being of the last 3 ½ years of the tribulation (the Great Tribulation). This passage seems to back that view up. This is when the Antichrist really begins his persecution of both the Jews and the “Tribulation saints” on earth. This is when the Antichrist becomes totally taken over by Satan.
As for all the chapters you reference about God’s Throne coming down to earth, I read them and I in no way got the impression that they are talking about God’s Throne coming down to earth. The passages describe visions that Isaiah and Ezekiel had of God’s throne room and heaven. These passages are used by some people to argue that God uses a space ship. They are pretty freaky visions and who knows what the heck they actually mean. You could argue they mean just about anything if you wanted to.
As for the “sons of God” discussion, again if you look, you can find a translation of the Bible to support any view you like. The evidence seems to be in favor of the “sons of God” referencing “non-mortals” which can be man when he is born-again, with the promise from God to receive a new immortal body when he dies or is raptured or it can reference angels, which are the only immortals in the Old Testament. There were no born-again believers in the Old Testament, so it cannot be referencing them.
I think this passage in Luke you quoted backs that up:
Luke 20:36 (English Standard Version)
36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
“For they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God” This tells me that the angels are “sons of God” and now we are also “sons of God” (“equal” to the angels and immortal) because we have accepted Christ as our savior. This guarantees us an eternity with God in our new immortal bodies.
God Bless,
Harold
Vatican, Saudis Discuss a Church but I don't think it has anything to do with them merging religions.
Interesting history lesson if you don't already know about it.
Coninthian Woman Headcoverings?
Also click on the purple "Hairstyles" link.
Lisa
Interesting article on Walid Shoebat....anyone heard these concerns addressed before?
The Palestinian 'terrorist' turned Zionist
Blessings,
Jen
Sure has been quite here! I was expecting to come back to all kinds of interactions about nephs or mary or something! :)
I hope you are all enjoying the day/evening/weekend.
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"For this is the day the Lord has made; Let us rejoice and be glad in it" Psalms
Donna, it is quiet, isn't it? Maybe it will pick up later tonight. Or should we start something?? ;-]
Shalom! Anne wrote: Maybe it will pick up later tonight. Or should we start something??
Anne, please don't. I'm getting something ready to post in reply to Harold. I'm choosing my words carefully, which is why it's taking some time.
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OK, Jim, I'll hold off!
Harold - You're forgiven - yeah, it was worth it.
I have 2 questions for folks, well really 1 question & asking for opinions on other:
1) Why does the bible always state people were "sleeping" when they died?
2) I had a discussion at work Fri. & wanted to know what you all thought about this:
We were discussing transplants where they put animal parts in humans; pig hearts, pig something to replace valves, etc. I stated I would never do that, even if it caused my death. The people I was talking to, one being the preacher from Church of Christ looked at me like I had 3 heads. I said, I believed it went against scripture & they essentially told me I was crazy.
What would you do in that situation?
HI Alesia....I've never been under the impression that transplants were against anything in scripture... what makes you think that?
Ok anne, lets not start anything! Jim we will patiently wait for your response! :)
Jen,
Have you read this article?
Walid Shoebat
Blessings! (Mary)
Hi Mary,
I hadn't read that particular article, although that's the gist of what I had previously understood about his background/current beliefs, etc. However, the article I linked calls alot of his personal recollections/charity work into question and I hadn't seen those accusations raised before. I was wondering if anyone else had seen the same.
Also, I was wondering which sites others in the group most commonly read in regards to Jewish/ME news, etc. and where on the political/ideological spectrum those sites fall. For example, I regularly check out Arutz Sheva, JPost and YNet News, but I don't know if they're liberal or conservative-leaning publications. It's often hard to discern the biases/motives of the authors because I'm not terribly familiar with the names/lingo, etc. that are being used. I'd like to know what others read and what they know about those sites.
Blessings,
Jen
A friend of mine I've been witnessing to just sent me this.
My point is- I think even your "Average" conservative American may be starting to "get it"
By Ken Blackwell - Columnist for the New York Sun
It's an amazing time to be alive in America. We're in a year of firsts in this presidential election: the first viable woman candidate; the first viable African-American candidate; and, a candidate who is the first front-running freedom fighter over 70. The next president of America will be a first.
We won't truly be in an election of firsts, however, until we judge every candidate by where they stand. We won't arrive where we should be until we no longer talk about skin color or gender. Now that Barack Obama steps to the front of the Democratic field, we need to stop talking about his race, and start talking about his policies and his politics.
The reality is this: Though the Democrats will not have a nominee until August, unless Hillary Clinton drops out, Mr. Obama is now the frontrunner, and its time America takes a closer and deeper look at him. Some pundits are calling him the next John F. Kennedy. He's not. He's the next George McGovern. And it's time people learned the facts.
Because the truth is that Mr. Obama is the single most liberal senator in the entire U.S. Senate. He is more liberal than Ted Kennedy, Bernie Sanders, or Mrs. Clinton. Never in my life have I seen a presidential frontrunner whose rhetoric is so far removed from his record Walter Mondale promised to raise our taxes, and he lost. George McGovern promised military weakness, and he lost. Michael Dukakis promised a liberal domestic agenda, and he lost.
Yet Mr. Obama is promising all those things, and he's not behind in the polls. Why? Because the press has dealt with him as if he were in a beauty pageant. Mr. Obama talks about getting past party, getting past red and blue, to lead the United States of America. But let's look at the more defined strokes of who he is underneath this superficial "beauty."
Start with national security, since the president's most important duties are as commander-in-chief. Over the summer, Mr. Obama talked about invading Pakistan, a nation armed with nuclear weapons; meeting without preconditions with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who vows to destroy Israel and create another Holocaust; and Kim Jong II, who is murdering and starving his people, but emphasized that the nuclear option was off the table against terrorists - something no president has ever taken off the table since we created nuclear weapons in the 1940s. Even Democrats who have worked in national security condemned all of those remarks. Mr. Obama is a foreign-policy novice who would put our national security at risk.
Next, consider economic policy. For all its faults, our health care system is the strongest in the world. And free trade agreements, created by Bill Clinton as well as President Bush, have made more goods more affordable so that even people of modest means can live a life that no one imagined a generation ago. Yet Mr. Obama promises to raise taxes on "the rich." How to fix Social Security? Raise taxes. How to fix Medicare? Raise taxes. Prescription drugs? Raise taxes. Free college? Raise taxes. Socialize medicine? Raise taxes. His solution to everything is to have government take it over. Big Brother on steroids, funded by your paycheck.
Finally, look at the social issues. Mr. Obama had the audacity to open a stadium rally by saying, "All praise and glory to God!" but says that Christian leaders speaking for life and marriage have "hijacked" - hijacked - Christianity. He is pro-partial birth abortion, and promises to appoint Supreme Court justices who will rule any restriction on it unconstitutional. He espouses the abortion views of Margaret Sanger, one of the early advocates of racial cleansing. His spiritual leaders endorse homosexual marriage, and he is moving in that direction. In Illinois, he refused to vote against a statewide ban - ban - on all handguns in the state. These are radical left, Hollywood, and San Francisco values, not Middle America values.
The real Mr. Obama is an easy target for the general election. Mrs. Clinton is a far tougher opponent. But Mr. Obama could win if people don't start looking behind his veneer and flowery speeches. His vision of "bringing America together" means saying that those who disagree with his agenda for America are hijackers or warmongers. Uniting the country means adopting his liberal agenda and abandoning any conflicting beliefs.
But right now everyone is talking about how eloquent of a speaker he is and - yes - they're talking about his race. Those should never be the factors on which we base our choice for president. Mr. Obama's radical agenda sets him far outside the American mainstream, to the left of Mrs. Clinton.
It's time to talk about the real Barack Obama. In an election of firsts, let's first make sure we elect the person who is qualified to be our president in a nuclear age during a global civilizational war.
Subject: Kind of scary, wouldn't you think? Remember--God is good, and is in time, on time, every time. According to The Book of Revelations the anti-Christ is: The anti-Christ will be a man, in his 40s, of MUSLIM descent, who will deceive the nations with persuasive language, and have a MASSIVE Christ-like appeal....the prophecy says that people will flock to him and he will promise false hope and world peace, and when he is in power, will destroy everything. Is it OBAMA?? I STRONGLY URGE each one of you to repost this as many times as you can! Each opportunity that you have to send it to a friend or media outlet...do it! If you think I am crazy..I'm sorry but I refuse to take a chance on the "unknown" candidate.
Just letting everyone know that Kathy (Overcomer) has been invited to fellowship with us. Please wlecome her when she posts.
Donna - I was specifically referring to transplants involving putting animal parts into humans for transplant. They are using pig's cells, valves, heart for a variety of human ailments. I think they can even use bovine (cow) for heart transplants now.
Wouldn't this constitute cross-species?
This actually is in line with all the neph/noah flood talk.
Harold, Shalom! Your extended post of 9:28 PM dealt with questions of Marian apparitions, particularly of the ones at Fatima, Portugal. Let me summarize my reply by saying that I agree with you. Just not for the reasons you believe.
One of the difficulties I have with long posts such as yours, Harold, is that they take even longer posts to respond to properly. It's even more difficult trying to decide which issue to respond to first. I will not be able to address all the questions or issues you brought up, simply due to lack of time, but I will do my best.
The overall theme of your message is that Marian apparitions are leading people away from G_D. On this I have to agree with you, but not completely. I remember reading an article several years ago that stated that the number of Marian apparitions was increasing, and that with each event the messages of prayer repentance were growing more urgent. The article was talking about events that had been approved by the Vatican.
However, what the article didn't mention is that the number of events that are being investigated have skyrocketed in the last 50 years; that the number of these events that are being deemed as spiritually dangerous has also gone up; and that there are a growing number of non-Catholic, non-Christian, and New Age practitioners who are claiming communication with Mary and who are spreading these supposed messages even though (or sometimes because) they contradict orthodox Christianity.
BTW, I'm using the word "event" to cover these three experiences: "Apparitions," where the seer sees Jesus, Mary, angels, saints, or some combination thereof, as something external to themselves. People other than the seer may see a glowing haze or ball of light, or some other physical phenomenon. "Visions" are where the seer views Jesus, Mary, etc. internally; and "locutions" are where the seer hears the voice or voices of Jesus, Mary, etc. Like visions, locutions are strictly internal to the seer, i.e., other people don't hear the voices.
The Roman Catholic Church takes all reports of supernatural phenomenon, particularly the three types of events, very seriously. It doesn't just up and say that such-and-such a vision is authentic without doing a LOT of investigating. This article details what must be done before any event can even be CONSIDERED to be authentic. It's a process that can and often does take decades to complete.
Here are two lists of alleged events that have taken place in North and South America. The first one goes into more detail on what the investigators are looking for and doesn't list the ones that have been disapproved by the Church. This second one is actually from the web site for the film "The Third Miracle" and lists events that have taken place since 1950.
There's one more site that has a list of both "reliable" and "false" revelations and apparitions. I'm a bit hesitant to refer to this site, since his list of "reliable" events contains a few events that have not been approved by the Church; however, his list of "false" events is quite thorough, and should give you an idea of what I meant when I talked about non-Catholic, non-Christian, and New Agers claiming communication with heavenly beings.
So yes, it is possible for a CLAIMED Marian apparition to lead people away from G_D. However, the apparitions that are approved are approved because it is shown "by their fruit" that the apparition helped people to return to faith in Jesus Christ. As one of the articles I linked to put it,
The content of most of these visions and locutions typically have several common characteristics:
— request to return to Jesus.
— request to pray to God frequently.
— request to confess and repent for sins.
— request to sacrifice for the purpose of converting sinners.
— warning that if humanity fails to return to God through His son, Jesus Christ, then a series of catastrophes will occur that will wipe out the greater portion of humanity and set the stage for the coming of the anti-Christ. The timeframe given for these events is most often described as "very soon".
If you were to look at the evidence and not just the "thumbnail sketch" of Fatima given in your posting, you would see all five of these characteristics. You would also see the fruit of conversion to Jesus appearing in untold thousands of people. L.A. Marzulli, whom you quoted, appears to have focused so much on "the three secrets" that he seems to have totally ignored the message that the three seers at Fatima were passing on: that we must all engage in prayer, reparation, repentance, and sacrifice, and the abandonment of sin. If we do not, we will suffer the chastisements of enslavement, annihilation, war, and famine. In fact, what Mr. Marzulli seems to be focusing on is this:
Remember in 1917 the word “UFO” or “flying saucer” was not in the lexicon of the local inhabitants. Those terms would come later in the twentieth century. The people who saw the “Miracle of the Sun” had no reference point, nothing in their realm of experience to compare with at what they were looking.
In other words, rather than coming out and saying that the Miracle of the Sun (where the sun "danced in the sky") was a Luciferian deception, he appears to be saying that it was something that today we would call a UFO. Perhaps that is why this happened back in 1917 and not today.
Let's put ourselves back in 1917. Mr. Marzulli wonders why there is no photograph of the Miracle of the Sun, when there were photographers there. What was the state of photography back then? What cameras were being used by Portugese newspaper reporters at the time? I do not know the answers to those questions, except to know that they certainly didn't have the high-speed films that we do today. The sun "danced in the sky," meaning it was in motion. Perhaps photographs were taken, but the results were so blurry that they were considered useless and were discarded. Also, the witnesses all describe the sun changing color. The newspaper photographers would have been using monochrome film, so any change in color would not have shown up -- again, a worthless photograph.
To cover the other questions Mr. Marzulli has, 2. Why was the surviving seer, Lucia, whisked off to a convent and essentially silenced? the answer is, she wasn't. FWIW, the boy Francisco died in 1919 after spending 6 months in the hospital dying of an unknown illness; his sister Jacinta died in 1920 after spending 18 months suffering from bronchial pneumonia, an abscess in her lung, and finally tuberculosis. During the time they were out of hospitals, all three children suffered exhausting interrogations and insults of disbelievers. When I say they suffered, I mean suffered. Portugal at the time was going through its own culture wars, with Christians (both Catholics and Protestants) on one side and anticlerical/ atheistic/ Masonic groups on the other. The children missed the apparition of August 13 because the local police chief -- a dedicated Freemason -- arrested the children (who were 7, 9, and 10 at the time), threw them into prison, and spent the next two days alternately offering the children bribes and threatening to boil them in oil (at one point he had a pot of hot oil on a stove and was telling the children he would put their hands in it) if they did not confess to making up this story.
So in 1921, when a formal investigation into the apparitions was launched, the local bishop arranged for 14-yo Lucia to be sent to the Dorothean Sisters in Oporto. This was both for her own safety and to ensure impartiality in the investigations. In 1928, when she was 21, she joined the Dorothean Sisters. She did not join the Carmelites (and thus have a vow of silence) until 1946.
4. Why was the testimony of many eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen a disk ignored? Again, that didn't happen. Numerous witnesses reported seeing the sun "as a disk" when it was moving in the sky. It's only those two Portugese historians who want to re-interpret Fatima to be an alien invasion.
3. Why have the revelation or “secrets” of Fatima seemed to have overshadowed the relevancy of biblical scripture? Again, I don't see that happening, at least not among the faithful. The first "secret" was a vision of hell. The second "secret" was to pray for the conversion of Russia to keep her from spreading Communism. The third "secret" wasn't supposed to be released until 1960. Not that it HAD to be released in 1960, just that it could not be released until then. It turned out to be a prediction of an attempt on the life of the Pope. So I'm not seeing anything here that constitutes an "extrabiblical revelation," except among the Vatican conspiracy theorists.
It's late, so I'll finish up tomorrow. Shalom, all!
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Are Mr Hyde & I expected to contact the Library of Congress for the copyrights on these textbooks?
That wasn't in my job description, Oh I see it now, in fine print the "other duties as assigned" clause - I don't think I'm being paid enough! hmmph
:)
Alisia, Shalom! I don't think the use of small parts (such as heart valves or blood vessels) from other animals is a cross-species mixture like the Nephilim. Simply put, you're not combining genetic material, any more than putting a Corvette hubcap on your Metro will turn your Metro into a sports car. While I can see using small bits and pieces here and there, I have a real problem with using entire organs from pigs or cows or any other animals. My concern is that when you use an entire organ, you greatly increase the risk of a virus jumping species; i.e., a virus that might exist in pigs but doesn't affect humans because we prepare and cook the meat, might get a toehold in humans if you put a pig's heart in a human.
BTW, on a totally different subject, does anyone know enough Hebrew to say what the Hebrew form of "Antichrist" would be? "Antichrist" is Greek; I'd like to be able to talk to Jews about the anti-HaMessiach, the need to be wary of a false Messiah.
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Jim - Thanks for the response.
While, no, it is not technically cross-species, their not taking 2 different species & making another species. You still would be a human walking around with animal parts in you to, perhaps, keep you alive. Surely, that must fall into the no-no category, no?
Jim, I, for one, don't mind the long posts. They give me so much to think about. However, sometimes (like today) I can't take time to read it all so have to come back later.
Jen, for a couple of years I have been reading periodicals from many different countries because I wanted to know what those people were hearing about issues, whether state run papers or independents. Here is a site that lists the urls of many foreign newspapers. Of course, it helps if you can read the local language and get news that isn't "edited" for us who are English speaking.
onlinenewspapers
Mr. Hyde, I think you'd better raise Alesia's wages. More cookies and a latte?
Just dropping by... glanced at the posts...one thing..I thought Kathy has already been posting here!
1917..interesting year...funny that's the yeat these apparitions started....that was the year of the Balfour Declaration, in which the Zionist movement was given the official go ahead.
I'll read posts later...even the long ones! :)
looks like an interesting link, anne, thanks
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All this discussion after I went to bed last night! I have a lot of catching up to do.
Lisa, Obama scares me. I think that no matter what is said about him, his faults will be glossed over and explained away into oblivion. I can't really explain this to others, though, even Christians who support him. I look like a nut. Some think I am a nut!
Is anyone out there who approves of, plans to vote for, or admires and sees nothing wrong with him?
Donna, as one who (though independent) might lean a little farther left than many of us, what do you think? By the way, my Christian husband who was a Republican for 25 years or so, plans to vote for Obama. We have some tense moments when he gets going about how the Repubs have done such a poor job. I agree that they have made many mistakes, but both Obama and Clinton are a mistake.
Please excuse me if this subject is too political for this blog. I think of this issue as part of the end times scenario. I will stop if you all think it belongs elsewhere, though, quite honestly, I need some help in discussing this with my husband and others I love dearly who are of the same mind as him.
About voting.....IMHO....
We can no longer look at the candidate, we MUST look at the party of the candidate!
Though both parties in this upcoming election have weaknesses, even strong weaknesses, we MUST consider the party with the greater strengths!
Which party best describes your worldview - your viewpoints about this country? Which party MORE clearly lends credence to how you perceive a nation founded on Christian principles should conduct itself.
Personally...nope, I best not go further. Just pray and vote your worldview convictions. That's what I will do! I'm not fond of either candidate, but there is only one path I can hold to!
Rejoice....our redemption draweth nigh!
Jen, have you looked at the Jewish newspaper, Israel Today - online?
Blessings! (Mary)
Alesia
am i correct in remembering there is JW in your background? if so I would submit that perhaps the whole animal thing even with bits and pieces so to speak may be left over from that.
Closed heart surgery wasn't even attempted until WW2 and that was just to pick bullets out of the hearts of GI's. The first open heart operations were done in the early 50's. The first heart transplant was done in 1967 by Bernard (who stole the idea and technique from Debakey et al but that's a different story). Bovine and pig valves have been used in medicine since the early days of cardiac surgery. It's actually only been within the last 30 years or so ( I think) that some insurance companies have stopped considering cardiac bypass of blood vessels as non experimental surgery! The ability to safely transplant a human heart and keep the patient alive long term didn't happen until cyclosporin was found which if memory serves was in the 80's or so. actually cyclosporin completely revolutionized the entire transplant injury.
metallic valves are a recent invention when you consider valves weren't even worked on until the 50's-metallic probably successfully in the late 60's?. metallic valves are also not appropriate in all cases. you have to take life long coumadin (blood thinner) to to keep the valve functional. if you can not take the coumadin for any reasons you can not have the metallic valve.
i wouldn't hold it to be crossing specie lines either-I think that refers more to crossbreeding. I do agree with Jim though about using whole animal parts- lots of potential for viral illnesses in particular.
there are new muscle substitutes that are out for abdominal wall reconstruction that are made out of a particular layer of intestinal wall from pigs-some are made of human skin obtained from organ donors. also used for a variety of reasons although I
don't think they work generally as advertised but that's a personal opinion. they have only been around for perhaps 3 or so years. they also have particular reasons to use over actual muscle and meshes etc.
i personally wouldn't have a problem with a tissue valve and wouldn't choose death over it. I would probably for a whole heart.
one of the major problems and the reason the medical establishment fools around with whole animal parts is that there just aren't enough organ donors. the amount of organ donation is a lot less than people think-roughly about 30% or so. not enough of even kidneys to go around and that's a double organ. If the organ donation rate was doubled to around 60% some have said that there would be no patients on dialysis at all because everyone would get a kidney. liver heart, lung, pancreas would also be raised and would make an impact but wouldn't get everyone off the lists. Using whole animal parts comes about because they want to see if they can, most docs view death as the enemy and failure so they can't bear to let someone die without trying something radical.
got to go-running late. nice to have a room with high speed that doesn't cost all outdoors
I will be so disappointed if Walid Shoebat is a fraud. I have heard about these contradictions before, how some things just don't make sense. I can understand his family being dishonest about his past, but htere are other problems with his story. Just from these two articles:
From Jerusalem Post article: Shoebat's claim to have been a terrorist rests on his account of the purported bombing of Bank Leumi. But after checking its files, the bank said it had no record of an attack on its Bethlehem branch anywhere in the relevant 1977-79 period.
Shoebat told The Jerusalem Post that this could be because the bank building was robustly protected with steel and that the attack may have caused little damage.
Asked whether word of the bombing made the news at the time, he said, "I don't know. I didn't read the papers because I was in hiding for the next three days." (In 2004, he had told Britain's Sunday Telegraph: "I was terribly relieved when I heard on the news later that evening that no one had been hurt or killed by my bomb.")
From Arutz Sheva article: “At the last minute I saw some children walking around near the bank and decided ‘this is ridiculous’ and threw it on a rooftop nearby.”
Anne again:
Maybe the bomb blew up on the rooftop?
He says so many good things that it's hard for me to denounce him, but I'm aware that I can be fooled!
OK, now I'm off to church.
Welcome Kathy...I'm with Donna..I thought you were already a part of our band of misfits!
Anne - I agree with you about Obama, I don't know what it is about him, but something really creeps me out.
Anne, now I feel bad, I wasn't complaining about the long posts - just teasing. Plus, was feeling loopy, silly lastnight from sleep deprevation.
Mary - I often feel the same way, I'd rather vote for a bad republican over a good democrat. I'm just having major issues with McCain. This is going to be a tuff one.
Anne,
Can't your Christian husband see through the charm?
Initially, I liked Obama. I still think he appears ok and speaks well.
But-Look what has been exposed on this man. The mechanics behind his the "political face".
I think that "Christian" church group he belongs to could almost be a smoke screen of an Islamic agenda.
There is such Racial Hatered and Anti-American sentiment in their rhetoric. It's absolutely pathetic!
This is what the guy admires. He is aboulutely leaning Muslim and Pro-Palestianin and Anti-Semitic.
So don't tell me he "was not aware" of what his pastor and church group are saying. That is the biggest whopper lie of them all.
Really, you have to be BLIND not to see through this.
The Republicans are beaten down by this war. Mc Cain is old but seasoned.
I think people are tired of the Clintons but at least with Hillary you know what your getting.
With Obama-we are going down in flames. Do the American people really know what they are voting into office?
I don't think there is any excuse at this point unless you don't want to face the truth and only look at his "political persona" and not what is really driving him.
Go to this link and scroll down to Obama-see what he says.
Joels Trumpet
Ok, I have to calm down.This may be part of the end times plan.
I can't help but get in a tizzy. Deep breaths-I need oxygen.
Lisa
Good Morning Everyone,
Getting ready for church but wanted to drop in and say hello after Mac's gracious invitation. I've been missing the fellowship at Joel's!
Good words Mary...
Thanks for the welcome you guys.
Blessings to all today as you worship the King!
Kathy
I'm really not that much of a "political" type person but you'd think I've turned into and activist over this"Obama" issue.
Obama in Sheeps clothing
Jib,
The JW was me.
Kathy, welcome! I think we already thought you were invited to the cave.
Lisa
Thanks Jib for taking the time to respond to my question. Wow, you really know your stuff there.
I've never been a JW, but have had pretty in-depth studies with them.
My thinking on this may very well have come from that, in part.
I really want to hear others thoughts & reasoning on this, out of curiosity, but truth be told, I've already made up my mind as to how I feel about.
On a different note: Amazon is one smart company. I just received email for recommended reading from them. For those who don't know, once you purchase a book from them, they send you recommendations for books of similar topics. One caught my eye:
"From 9/11 To 666: THE CONVERGENCE OF CURRENT EVENTS, BIBLICAL PROPHECY AND THE VISION OF ISLAM"
Has this book been discussed here? As anyone read it yet?
Mac - you'll be happy to know, they also recommended Jack Kinsella's "The Last Generation". I keep forgetting to order it, now I will.
Hi Kathy!!!
LOL Lisa - the more I read your comments, the more I like you! I think we may have been separated at birth. I'm glad you're here with us!
Alesia,
With the past loose morals of my Bio-Dad-It's entirely possible.
(Don't know about you mom though. My birth parents were the prime example of the 60's-70's party generation.)
He He,
Lisa
HI Anne,
I'm not sure what to think of Obama. I have to admit that I love listening to him talk and he seem genuine.
I'm not so sure about this "seeing right thru him" stuff.
I realize people seem to think he's a secret moslem and all of that. And some speculate he could wind up being the antichrist.
Others speculate that George Bush could be the antichrist, too.
I can't imagine that he or anyone could be for partial birth abortion (I haven't looked into it enough.)
The only thing I have read so far that causes great concern for me is his association with General McPeak, due to McPeaks stand on Israel.
However, just because Obama is associated with someone, it does not mean they believe the same way.
As far as a Presidential candidate...I honestly do no know what to think about it all! I can't imagine him being president or even winning.
So....those are some of my thoughts at the moment.
<><
Joel has a new post.
Netanyahu (?) may not be the favored leader for Israel, but at least he would refuse to allow Jerusalem to be divided or to give up any strategic land in Israel.
Any thoughts, anyone?
Hi Kathy - Good to "see" you again!
Blessings! (Mary)
Absolutely, Mary, for sure!
I whole heartedly agree!
Mac did invite me a few months ago but I was hesitant to drop in. I know some are uncomfortable with my eschatological position and I wanted to be sensitive to that. But, we are all one in Christ based on His righteousness and not on our eschatological positions. I missed the fellowship at Joel's after he shut down the comments, again. Just so you all know, I'm not here to convert you to prewrath but to enjoy the fellowship in Christ.
A wonderful message this morning out of Romans 11. Our Pastor even touched on the Joshua Fund! He also touched on all the Muslems coming to Christ in that part of the world.
I'm waiting for Dead Heat to arrive and am looking forward to getting my eyeballs around it.
As far as politics, my two cents is that we need to vote our consciences and then leave the results up to the Lord for He is the one who puts leaders into power to accomplish His purposes.
Thanks again for all the welcomes Everyone.
Kathy
Oh, Alesia, I knew you were just kidding! (About the long posts) I guess I sounded kinda serious, didn't I. I haven't seen the 9/11-666 book, but I'm going to look it up.
Lisa, no my husband doesn't see it (the charm). And, he's a very bright man with many conservative Christian friends who are thinking just like he is! I feel a little lost out here!
Quite honestly, I'm expecting Obama to win, but that it will be a disaster for our country and also that it is part of the end times plan.
Donna, thanks for your thoughts. This is a difficult election, don't you think?
Kathy, I'm so glad you are here! I also thought you were here all along.
Where are all the guys? Fingers all tired out from all those long posts?? :)
Here is a great site I ran across.
Alot on "Global Warming" and Politics.
Following is one of the articles:
Demented Delusional
I cannot comment on this alleged Obama terrorist connection because this is the first I have heard about it. If the story has any real legs Obama will be finished.
New Media Alliance - Jim Kouri
There is a far-reaching scandal brewing for presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, thanks to a radio talk show host based in Oregon. Syndicated talk host Laurie Roth’s revelations make the news story about Obama’s relationship with a racist, anti-American pastor look like child’s play.A top official at the Pentagon during former-President George H. W. Bush’s Administration and a former CIA intelligence officer maintain that Barack Obama and former Weather Underground honcho William Ayers funneled money to Professor Rashid Khalidi, a known terrorist sympathizer.
Khalidi serves on the faculty of Columbia University in New York and is best known as the professor who invited Iranian President Ahmedinejad to visit Columbia University after he finished his speech at the United Nations. According to confidential sources, Khalidi has direct ties to the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO), a group on the US State Department’s list of known terrorist groups.
“One source for this information was once a top military figure in the 1990s. He doesn’t take making allegations lightly. If he says something happened, believe me, it happened,” said syndicated radio talk show host Laurie Roth (http://www.therothshow.com/)
Anne,
What is your husband thinking?
What do they see in Obama and what is the thought process?
Do they see the "baggage" that comes with him?
Along the same lines. That last link I put up on "Demented Delusional" is a pice on Mc Cain and how he would have us sold up the river into the "New World Order."
The one positive aspect of him I see is he knows the true threat of "terrorism."
I guess all three paths may lead to the same destination.
Lisa
uh oh...
By ALESSANDRA RIZZO - Associated Press Writer
VATICAN CITY(AP) Islam has surpassed Roman Catholicism as the world's largest religion, the Vatican newspaper said Sunday.
"For the first time in history, we are no longer at the top: Muslims have overtaken us," Monsignor Vittorio Formenti said in an interview with the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano. Formenti compiles the Vatican's yearbook.
He said that Catholics accounted for 17.4 percent of the world population _ a stable percentage _ while Muslims were at 19.2 percent.
wait... I didn't read the whole thing:
"When considering all Christians and not just Catholics, Christians make up 33 percent of the world population, Formenti said."
Only 33%, that's really sad.
Lisa, I will try to give you some of his reasons, but I must admit that it has become such a sore spot for us that it is hard for me to discuss with him. He enjoys a good debate and is very good at it, while I quietly listen to a variety of opinions and come to my conclusions from gathering information. In other words, he talks, I listen but I'm not sure I can accurately repeat what he says.
But, he is so frustrated with the financial mess which I think he would say could have been controlled by better regulation when the Republicans were in control. He thinks Cheny is just downright evil (I don't think that is too strong). He is disgusted with the corruption amongst the elected party members and feels that we just need to clean house and start over. He despises Hillary, though, and would choose McCain over her (he thinks). I think it would be true to say he'd have preferred Biden to Obama. He has great respect for Obama's intelligence and thinks he would be able to bring about "change" for the better and bring the country together.
I don't have the ability to argue these points and I while he would think it just a good discussion, I take it too personally. So, I try not to bring up the things like Wright because I think he would consider that to be...I don't know what, not unimportant, but not an issue that would disuade him.
His friends come to a point of agreeing with him, so I'm thinking of finding a way to lock him up till after the election before he convinces too many people to vote Obama! ;-]
This is my last link of the day. I need a break. Thought it may be of interest since we just had the "Alien" discussions.
Aliens from outer space or the Great Deception
Lisa
Kathy - No need to ever feel that way. We ALL have different views about one thing or another, we all love each other regardless.
Anne - You sound like such a good wife :)
Didn't realize Joel posted the comment about Catholics-vs-Islam as well. Haven't been fanatical about checking his site, as of late. oops
"Mr. Hyde, I think you'd better raise Alesia's wages. More cookies and a latte?"
Alesia, the cheque's (oz spelling) in the mail.
Anne - You sound like such a good wife :)
Alesia, you must be referring to my wanting to lock him up! That's what a good wife would do, right? Till he comes to his senses?
Oh, nearly forgot; welcome, Kathy.
Anne,
You might want to read why Walid Shoebat thanks Eileen Fleming....Thank You Eileen Fleming
This might lend to a better undertanding of this man. I don't know him personally, but like you, I would be very disappointed if he was a fraud.
All he is accused of in this article reminds me of those that followed Jesus around ready to accuse him at every point and ready to trip him up.
I will stand by the God and the Message that Walid Shoebat proclaims. Walid is a mere man but He proclaims a powerful Lord!
Blessings! (Mary)
Mr Hyde - I was really looking forward to more cookies & an extra latte! Not my fault, Anne started it!
Anne- ha, ha I would guess most women have thought about locking up the hubby at some point or another. sorry fellas
I was referring to you knowing you would get fired up & having the sense not to quarrel.
I've not mastered that restraint! (no hubby - but in general)
Do I have any takers on this question I asked last night?
Why does the bible always state people were "sleeping" when they died?
Is it simply a matter of not having a word for died/dead?
alesia,
Your view of being against pig valves and cow valves for replacing heart valves in people has me a little confused. I have gone to church all my life (5 different ones) and they have all been pretty strict, in most cases, Baptist churches. In that time, I have never heard anyone in any of these churches say anything about it being even remotely morally questionable to have a heart valve replaced by non-human parts.
I also have a vested interest in this discussion. My father, who will turn 80 in October, had a heart valve replaced and double bypass surgery about 4 years ago. The replacement valve was pig tissue. My father is the strictest Baptist you will ever meet. He has never had a drink in his life, has never had a smoke in his life, never swears, is against dancing, going to movies, etc.
If he didn't have any issue with it, I sure as heck don't. If he hadn't had that surgery 4 years ago, he would have died 4 years ago. As it is now, he is still teaching Sunday School with my mother and farming full time. I am glad he is still with us. :-)
Jim,
Your post was interesting. However, the reason for my post was to show a connection between the Catholic Church and Islam. The connection being that the Catholic Church and Islam hold Mary in very high esteem and the events at Fatima, Portugal strengthen that connection. As mentioned in my post, Mary is the only woman that Islam holds in higher esteem that Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad.
Whether the events at Fatima in 1917 actually happened, or if they were a hoax, I don't really care. The point is that many millions of people think they happened and that strengthens the ties between the Roman Catholic Church and Islam. Do I think it was aliens? Absolutely not. It was either evil spirits, or it was genuine.
I do find it interesting that the pope had Cardinal Angelo Sodano reveal what the third secret was instead of revealing it himself. I would have thought that something that publicized and seemingly important to so many followers of Catholicism would have been revealed by the Pontiff himself, particularly because it concerned the assassination attempt on his life.
If I was into conspiracy theories, I might suggest that it was because the pope is supposed to be infallible, and if he knew something was not true, he would certainly not be the one to read a statement saying it was....
Again, whether these events actually occurred or didn't occur is not up for me to determine. I just want to point out there is a strong connection between the Roman Catholic Church and Islam. It is interesting how much the connection between the two has been in the news the last couple of weeks.
Jim, I hope I didn't offend you. That was not my intention. If I did , I apologize. I am just throwing out theories here.
God Bless,
Harold
Joel has another new post.
Mat 2:19 ButG1161 when HerodG2264 was dead,G5053 behold,G2400 an angelG32 of the LordG2962 appearethG5316 inG2596 a dreamG3677 to JosephG2501 inG1722 Egypt,G125
G5053
τελευτάω
teleutaō
tel-yoo-tah'-o
From a presumed derivative of G5055; to finish life (by implication of G979), that is, expire (demise): - be dead, decease, die.
Joh 11:11 These thingsG5023 saidG2036 he: andG2532 afterG3326 thatG5124 he saithG3004 unto them,G846 OurG2257 friendG5384 LazarusG2976 sleepeth;G2837 butG235 I go,G4198 thatG2443 I may awake him out of sleep.G1852 G846
G2837
κοιμάω
koimaō
koy-mah'-o
From G2749; to put to sleep, that is, (passively or reflexively) to slumber; figuratively to decease: - (be a-, fall a-, fall on) sleep, be dead.
I need to study this further. Both terms are used and there might be a definite reason.
I'm wondering if the term dead is used for the lost and the term sleep is used for the saved.
I have mixed feelings about using animal body parts to keep someone alive. I can certainly sympathize with you, Harold. If I had a loved one who was dying and needed some animal body part to keep them alive, I’d be for it. But at the same time I read lots of articles that disturb me, like where science is growing human body parts on animals for transplantation and such. The world is looking to science for immortality.
Mary, the Shoebat link was interesting and helpful. I'm not 100% sure about him, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
One of the remarks cleared up the bomb on the rooftop...he threw it on the rooftop of the bank!
Thank you Mac for looking into that.
I'm wondering if the term dead is used for the lost and the term sleep is used for the saved.
hmm, there's an interesting thought.
Apparently the whole 'animal parts' thought is more of an individual moral issue, rather than scriptural.
Thanks Harold. Glad to hear about your dad.
mac...what does all that G32 type thing mean?
Donna; this may help.
Wiki -Strong's Concordance
Great, thanks, mac. I have a concordance...I should dig it out and use it! I'm almost positive it's a Strongs.
Mac,
What's with all those numbers?
Is that considered typing in tongues?
I know I said I was done for the night but:
Occult Eagle Spirituality
this is from Kinderquilt who wanted me to pass this on to all of you.
The sisters reference Grany, Marge and I btw.
Hi my dear sisters, (and Pastor Ed),
Just wanted to drop you a note about my trip with The Joshua Fund and Joel. We will
be flying on April 2 at 8:00pm and landing the next day at 1:30 pm, Israel time (I
think they are about 7 hours ahead of us, but I could be wrong...you probably know
better than I). I will be on bus #2, the yellow bus :). We will stay in Tel Aviv the
first night and travel to Tiberius where we'll stay for the next four nights. Then
we will go to Jerusalem for the final 5 nights and leave at 1:00am Israel time
(ugh!) and get back here on the 14th at 5am (that's NYC at 5am; at least I'll be
traveling back to my house against the rush hour traffic!) My daughter's boyfriend
has his limo license and has offered to drive me there and pick me up. I told him
okay, only if he allows me to give him some money (it would have cost over $400 to
get a ride there and back, so I am saving some money) to take my daughter out to a
nice restaurant after they drop me off. They love the city and know their way
around, so they were very excited to do it.
The official name of the trip is "The Joshua Fund Prayer and Vision Trip and
Prophecy Conference in Israel 2008". I just call it the Joshua Fund trip :) Joel
has promised to mingle among all six buses to give everyone a chance to ask
questions. If I get close enough, I'll say Hi to him from all of you, but I'm not
getting my hopes up. Although, maybe it'll be like on the TV show "The Love Boat"
where the captain would invite single travelers to dine with him: maybe Joel and his
wife will invite me to first class on the plane....naaah! :)
Anyway, just being there will be such a blessing and I'm going to take lots of
pictures (soon as I figure out this newfangled digital camera...) and will have my
husband help me do a blog or whatever people do when they want to post their photos
(like you do, Joyce). Then you can do a virtual trip to Israel, okay?
The original itinerary listed all the popular places to go, so I'm sure we will do
those things. But, one of the highlights will be the Joshua Fund Conference and
relief project we will be doing. I have no idea what the project will be, but I'll
give you the details when I get back. You can probably watch the conference "from
gavel to gavel" ...I think the information for watching it is on the Joshua Fund
website. Please pray that it will be a major blessing to Israel and that it will
help more Christians know of Israel's plight. Thanks, ladies. I know that I can
count on you to pass the word along. It's one thing for brothers and sisters to read
about Joel's trip on his blog, but another to take part in it personally. If all of
his readers were to lift him and the other speakers (including Pastor Skip Heitzig
from Calvary Chapel in Albuquerque, NM), up in prayer, I know that God will do a
mighty work!
Well, I have to go for now and will probably not have a chance to write again until
I get back (though I may be able to check my email :) ). So until then, may the
Lord bless you and keep you, may He cause his face to shine upon you and give you
peace. Next year in Jerusalem!
Mac
While I would agree that people look to science for immortality it doesn't just refer to the delaying of death. Most people not only don't want to die, they want to remain fit, active, in possession of all their mental abilities etc. In other words, not only don't they want to die, they want to be young too. So halting, slowing or reversing the aging process is as much apart of the quest for immortality as the avoidance of death.
While weird, growing individual parts for transplant on or in animals isn't going to lead to immortality-just organ replacement. It doesn't halt, slow or reverse the aging process. As long as there is no rejection and things function normally, it will halt the dying process at least from that particular disease being treated with the transplant. While not entirely aware of growing human parts in animals I can't say I'm surprised-there just aren't enough organs to go around. There are cultural, religious, ethnic and primal factors which inhibit the donation of organs. Of those who are organ donors they may be rejected on the basis of age, infection, presence of cancer or other diseases. Interestingly enough, if the dysfunctional kidneys of a diabetic are transplanted into a normal person, the damage from the diabetes can be reversed. go figure.
Alesia
both medical history and organ donation are interests of mine. I attended a seminar on organ donation in the past (about 15 years or so ago) which is where some of the information was obtained. therefore the current organ donation rate might be higher than the 30% it was but I'll bet it isn't much higher.
May be we should have Kinderquilt ask about the blog and perhaps what Joel wants us to do in the future with the annoying ones etc. ?
Shalom, all! Harold, I'm still working on a reply to your reply; however, in researching it I've come across SO many different sources I'm trying to put them together in a coherent response. While I'm waiting for my thoughts to come together, here are some other links that I thought might interest people.
"America's Rabbi" says we are in the time of Noah "Everyone is familiar with that section just before the flood, of giants," said Rabbi Lapin. "The King James translation refers to these people as giants - one thing, in the Hebrew, it becomes immediately very clear is that what we really are talking about is aborted people, aborted fetuses." "In Hebrew," explained the Rabbi there is "one word for giants (and) aborted fetuses." Comparing the time of Noah to the current day, the Rabbi said, "Babies that are aborted eventually bring about a culture of death that destroys society."
Several of the sites that had been hosting the "Fitna" video have pulled it from their sites. In one case (LiveLeak.com) going to the link to the video instead shows an apology by the web hosting site, stating that there have threats to the staff "of a very serious nature" and some leaks from the British media that could affect the safety of the staff. See the apology here. However, it's been reposted on numerous other sites. Plus, the "Gates of Vienna" blogsite is getting volunteers to translate the subtitles into a number of other languages. You can read about their progress here, and you can get lists of alternate locations here and here.
These next few links are from SpiritDaily.org, a website that has news from various sources related to prophecy, end-times, spiritual warfare, and miracles, all from a Catholic viewpoint. I'm including them because they relate to some of the topics we've discussed recently.
WHEN IT COMES TO 'SIGNS,' THE QUESTION IS WHETHER SUCH ARE FROM GOD OR THE DEVIL
If Prophecy Is Imperfect, Especially With Dates, It's Still Strange And Fascinating (Be sure to click on the link for the 1990 prophecy.)
Things Fall Into Place If We Pray To The Holy Spirit And Seek God's Blueprint
Cast off spirits of failure
A potpourri of prophecy
<><
Thank you Mr. Hyde.
Harold, Shalom! You wrote:
Your post was interesting. However, the reason for my post was to show a connection between the Catholic Church and Islam. The connection being that the Catholic Church and Islam hold Mary in very high esteem and the events at Fatima, Portugal strengthen that connection. As mentioned in my post, Mary is the only woman that Islam holds in higher esteem that Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad.
This paragraph covers two points. The first one, that a common regard for Mary by both the Catholic Church and Islam creates some kind of "connection" as in a common area of worship, is simply not true. I mean, if that were the case, why is the Saudi government forbidding the construction of any kind of Catholic church in Saudi Arabia? And why would the Saudi representatives break off contact with the Vatican due to the conversion of a Muslim to Christianity?
Your second point is that the name of the village where this took place, Fatima, is proof that the events there are linked to Islam because Fatima was the name of one of Mohammed's daughters. Again, not so, because Fatima, Portugal wasn't named after Mohammed's daughter. The village was named after a beloved princess. As the Moors were being driven out of Spain, this Islamic girl fell in love with a Christian soldier. When her family left, she stayed behind, converted to Christianity, and married the boy. They became the local prince and princess, who were known for their kindness and generosity; and when she died the village took her name in her honor. In other words, the village was named after a pagan who converted and lived a life of Christian charity. I would think that's the kind of example you'd WANT to encourage.
You wrote: I do find it interesting that the pope had Cardinal Angelo Sodano reveal what the third secret was instead of revealing it himself.
While that may be what we would expect our Hollywood stars and athletes to do (in order to win glory for themselves), that's not what the Pontiff would do. The Roman Pontiff is the leader of a sovereign nation (The Vatican), which means there is a protocol to be followed for such things. Having the Pope read a statement about himself is not part of the protocol.
As for the third secret being so "important to so many followers of Catholicism," trust me, it isn't. It's important to the media and those looking for sensationalism. And as for the Pope not reading it because he's supposed to be infallible, you're not even close. The Pope's infallibility only extends to matters of Faith and Morals, when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra ("from the throne"). There are protocols that have to be followed there so there is no question in the future as to whether or not the Pope was speaking ex cathedra. Again, releasing a statement to the press is not one of those protocols.
FWIW, one reason it's taken me so long to write this message (I started at 5:30, folks) was that I was researching Catholic end-time prophecies, trying to confirm something I thought I read years ago: that Mary the Mother of G_D will play a very important role in the conversion of Muslims to Christianity in the end-times. In fact, I found quite a few Catholic saints said this same thing in different ways. The reverence for Mary in Islam is in fact helping pave the way for Muslims to convert to Christianity. It is illegal in many Islamic countries to talk about Jesus. It is NOT illegal to talk about Mary. Catholic Christians are able to talk to Muslims about Mary, the Mother of Isa (Jesus), and explain about how we as Christians believe she is the Mother of G_D.
(FWIW, these same saints also all predict that Islam will conquer and destroy Rome. Remember, you read it here first.)
<><
Jim,
That video is back up at the site you provided for the apology and is viewable upon statement that you are over 18 years of age.
This I believe is our greatest human enemy and 'it' is fueled by satan, the enemy of G_D, the true G_D!
The film is horrific in nature, but very informative!
Blessings! (Mary)
Jim, or anyone, what does FWIW mean?
Kathy, I am not pre-wrath or pre-trib. I haven't made a decision and might not ever (until it happens!). But, you have helped me to understand the position and I thank you for that. I have a good friend who is pre wrath and who points out that Corrie ten Boom also was. I am actively studying the pre-trib view right now, but will also study the other viewpoints, if only to understand what they are saying.
I now have about ten tabs open, thanks to all the links from last night! So, I'd better get reading.
nate,
This is the last comment I saw on Joel's blog before it was turned off:
Aenea said...
Tim Stewart: aenea, I don't believe the Holy Spirit is going to move me to speak to a cartoon character pointing a gun at me. GROW UP!
Even children know that avatars aren't really the person they are communicating with online. (Where does Joel get these people? Sheesh!)
END QUOTE
I can't say for sure if this was the last comment, but it was within a few minutes of the plug being pulled.
I never knew that men were not trying to get pregnant.The guy Beatie is actually a transmale which I found out is a woman who turns into a male.
I had never looked at a "Trans" site but did find it interesting that the Transexuals do seem to love Obama. Hillary was also on the cover of "Advocate" magazine.
Male Pregancy
Wikipedia
You know, I probably didn't really even care to become aware of this. But-it's further proof of how sick this world really it.
Anne, Shalom! "FWIW" means For What It's Worth.
And if you're wondering about being pre-wrath or pre-trib, come join the Catholic view! We're pan-trib (as in, it will all pan out in the end!)
:-)
<><
Jim,
I like your pan-trib view.
Here is an article-I thought the Matthew 24 explaination was good.
Why Some Reject
IF we are still around to see the signing of a peace treaty with Israel for seven years and we also see the building of some sort of temple...it will get rather exciting I do believe. In the meantime, I know we'll continue to see an increase in wars and rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes...you know the drill. I know we are all watching the signs and keeping our eyes on Israel.
We received an email last night from a gentleman who visited our church a few months back. He has gone into Iraq to work alongside the believers there. He just learned that an Iraqi pastor that he knows was arrested and will probably be tortured. It's happened to him before. He's asking for prayer for Pastor Kareem, for endurance.
Shalom, all! Just wanted to let everyone know that I picked up my li'l yellow scooter Saturday morning. Click here to see the dealer's picture of my new baby. I still need to figure out a way to mount a basket in the back -- probably U-bolts holding a milk crate. I've put about 14 miles on her since then, mostly just cruising around empty parking lots getting a feel for handling her. I'll tell you this: it ain't like riding a bike. When riding a bike, I can feel the road as I push through the pedals. Leaning into a turn comes easily and naturally.
But when riding a motor scooter, I don't get that same feedback. I would try to turn, and the front wheel would suddenly jump and point straight. I put the blessed thing up on curbs several times before I learned that I really do need to lean into the turns, just like a bike. By not leaning into the turns, I was actually forcing the front wheel to go straight. I did take it out on the roads a couple of times (to get to the parking lots) and found out that 25mph seems a lot faster on that thing than it does in the car! I did get it up to 30mph once, but that was an act of desperation, brought on by the car behind me wanting to go the speed limit.
In theory, this scooter can go up to 45mph. It's going to be a while before I'm comfortable going 30. At the same time, I keep thinking of when my ex-wife and I bought Rollerblades with our income tax refund some 20 years ago. We'd go rollerblading on this trail by a creek, and spent our first few days going very slowly up and down the hills. By the end of the third week, we realized we were taking those same hills a full speed, and that the hills themselves weren't hills anymore, they were just places where the trail went up and down a foot or so. I won't be riding today, because it's raining, and I think I need a little more time before I try going out in the rain, but by the end of April I expect to be using this instead of my car for 99% of all my traveling.
<><
Hi Kathy, we will definitely be praying for Pastor Kareem.
It is just unbelievable that something like this could take place. So horrible, sad and shocking.
Jim..we hope you are having fun with your new toy!
Jim,
That looks exactly like the scooter my sister-in-law has. They are a lot of fun! I got my sister-in-law's up to about 32. Do be careful and Nate is giving good advice, keep a watchful eye on your mirrors!
Donna,
Thanks for praying for Pastor Kareem.
Alesia,
Why does the bible always state people were "sleeping" when they died?
I had found a great article w/chart the other day & can't find it now-he is another good one.
What happens when you die?
Again:
What happens when you die
Overcomer, Shalom! Pastor Kareem will be in my prayers.
Lisa, Shalom! Thanks for the link ("Why Some Reject"). I will admit, I had to laugh when Mr. Jeffrey wrote about finding the writings of Ephraem the Syrian "after more than a decade of searching." He could have saved himself 10 years if he had bothered to check with the Catholics. St. Ephraem the Syrian is considered to be one of the Fathers of the Church (by "Church", I mean the Universal Church, made of all believers), and his works have been available in translation for some time. (He wrote in Syriac; his works were translated into Greek for the rest of the Church community. They were also translated into French during the French Mandate.) You can read an article about him in the 1917 edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia here. If you click on the "Fathers" link in the upper right corner of the page, you'll be taken to a list of "The Fathers of the Church". You can then scroll down to "Ephraem the Syrian" and read a sample of his hymns and homilies. The [DOCTOR] after his name means he's also considered a "Doctor of the Church", meaning his writings have been considered to have especially enriched the Christian faith.
While St. Ephraem the Syrian may have taught about a pretribulation rapture, his teachings were not agreed upon by the rest of the Church. You'll note that the work of St. Ephraem cited by Mr. Jeffrey was dated 373 AD, twenty years before the Third Synod of Carthage established the biblical canon in 397. St. Ephraem wrote commentaries on all the books of the bible, including some that were later deemed "non-canonical" (such as "The 3rd Letter to the Corinthians"). Since his commentaries, teachings, homilies, and other writings were read throughout the Church of the day and influenced Christian thought for centuries, yet his teaching on rapture was not, we can only assume that it was rejected by the rest of the Church at the time.
I also have to wonder: if Mr. Jeffrey considers St. Ephraem the Syrian's writings on the End Times to be authoritative, I wonder if he would also consider St. Ephraem's other writings such as the intercessions of the saints:
(You victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Savior, you who have boldness of speech toward the Lord himself, you saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us and enlighten the hearts of all of us so that we may love him. (Commentary on Mark [A.D. 370]));
or Mother Mary's immaculate (i.e., sinless) nature:
("You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?" (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]))
to be equally authoritative?
<><
Lisa, Shalom! The answer to your question ("What happens when you die") is simple! I learned it at summer camp one evening:
The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out,
The worms play pinochle on your snout.
They eat your eyes, they eat your nose,
They eat the jelly between your toes.
:-D
<><
Grany, have you battened down the hatches?
Okie Radar is getting very colorful..
I pray you stay safe, I've heard a couple of tornados set down in Okie Land..
Mike
Shalom, all! I wanted to pass on to you something I just found out about. There is a Catholic group in Tennessee, St. Michael the Archangel Organization, that is trying to promote prayer to stop both surgical and non-surgical abortions. Towards that end, they are trying to get 1,000,000 people to pray the Rosary for one hour all at the same time -- Saturday, May 3, from 9AM to 10AM ET. (That would be from 1300 to 1400 UT, for those outside the States.)
I realize some of you aren't Catholic (:-D) but I hope you would agree that spending an hour of prayer united with other Christians to stop abortion is a worthwhile thing. If you would like to commit to joining in that cause, please go to this website and click the REGISTER link. You don't need to give any information -- it's just a promise that you will be praying in union with all the other people to pray for an end to abortion. Thanks.
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Grany, you still there? Or do we need to call you Dorothy?
Hi Jim, I will definitely keep the abortion issue in my prayers...however I won't be using rosary beads or praying to Mary or the "saints" or anyone else like that...only to God thru Jesus...our direct Line.
:)
I agree with Nate...watch out for those crazy drivers! They must be in Iowa, too!
Mike and Jim,
It didn't come near my dwelling place no matter how much Jim (hubby) worried and stewed. A few claps of thunder, lightening from west to east in clouds only and some rain. Pleading the blood of Jesus keeps me from worrying. Now all of you good baptist, try that in your theology!
Grany
Glad to hear all is well with you all in Okieland, Grany!
NATE, I finally got into the article I think took down Joel's. It was March 23, 2008v and the topic was Why is the bush Administration pushing to divide Jerusalem? Here are the comments that remain. I know that I posted a response to the anonymous telling me I was too old to scuba dive.
posted by Joel C. Rosenberg @ 12:21 PM
4 Comments:
At 12:56 PM, OpenID glen4jesus2008 said...
In response to my posts it seems Joel Rosenberg is attempting to cover his tracks rather than deal with his selfish ambitions. Has anyone noticed all the information now missing from the Joshua Fund web site? It looks like he saw the things that I saw. What incriminating evidence was in the information he pulled from the site? Any IRS auditors reading this may want to ask Joel Rosenberg for all those records. Perhaps he is hiding a big scandal somewhere. Meanwhile, I pray he doesn’t shatter the faith of believers in the process. This is just my opinion, campsmore.
At 1:02 PM, Blogger Great Grany 5 said...
Joel, I thank you for your comments and keeping us informed of the news that the secular media refuses to report. I know that what you are telling us is the truth simply by the witnesses that we have in our own personal family. We have relatives who have worked in the ME for decades and helped to set up the oil exploration and processing in many of the countries. Some of them are also in civil service to the USA and maintain that same report.
I thank you for your dedication and honesty. Unlike some of the narrow minded, cheap shots taken at you and your career, I truly count your work as a valuable ministry in these times of an age coming to an end. This end of times scene we are living in is full of deception and wickedness so it is refreshing to me and many others to count you as a brother in Christ.
Shalom
At 1:04 PM, Blogger Great Grany 5 said...
Glen I just gave you the kiss off of all kiss offs.
CLICKY CLICK!!!!! FELT SO GOOD TOO! ALMOST LIKE TAKING A FRESH SHOWER AFTER A SCUBA DIVE.
Grany
At 1:12 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...
grany, you are too old for a scuba drive.
Post a Comment
<< Home" That is all I could find on comments in Cache. Nothing past that one. I will keep trying but so far nothing.
Grany
Jim,
That was my favorite song as a kid! I used to drive my parents nuts w/it.
(I have not taught it to my girls-hum,wonder why?)
I don't know but I doubt Mr.Jeffrey considered anything other than if the early church fathers thought in terms of pre-trib. Funny-the Catholics had the info for years that he was searching for.
I have come to the conclusion that the Catholics have acquired quite a bit of useful information in the history of Christianity.
I know Joel Richardson digs up a whole bunch of stuff from their sources.
Can't wait until the Church is truly Unified in theology.
We are unified in Christ I know- but to have one truth will really bring relief-will it not?
Lisa
Only managed to have a quick peek of the comments today.
Kathy; am praying for pastor Kareem.
Will talk to you all later.
Grany; hope you are well. Will look at that link you sent, soon.
"I also have to wonder: if Mr. Jeffrey considers St. Ephraem the Syrian's writings on the End Times to be authoritative, I wonder if he would also consider St. Ephraem's other writings such as the intercessions of the saints:...."
Jim, my guess the answer to your questions is a resounding NO.
Obviously Jeffrey was trying to counter the fallacious Darby accusations promulgated by MacPherson against pre-trib by trying to show that the idea was around long before Margaret MacDonald. Personally, I think any doctrine or belief should stand the test of scripture, not history. The apostle Paul was forever putting out the fires of false doctrine even in his time and Gnosticism had already swept through a lot of the church before he was martyred.
BTW Only One has not sinned and that is Christ Jesus.
Nate
i was in meetings most of the day and then did a little sight seeing and swimming. I did forward your letter on to Kinderquilt. I save the comments from all sites for about a week or so but deleted those early since I wanted to keep my storage of info etc down on my webmail just in case we didn't get a hotel room with internet access.
a funny story to lighten your day a bit. The spanish word for "ice" is "hielo" which looks rather close to the english word hello. the little cubby where the ice machine is located has the spanish word on top of the english word. My son read it as "hello ice", greeted the ice by saying "hello ice" and then proceeded down the hallway saying "hello lamp" to all the lamps in the hallway!
Shalom, all! Here's the latest news from around the world:
From Pakistan Christian Post: Saudi Arabia: No churches unless prophet Mohammed recognised, says expert
Riyadh: March 29, 2008.No churches should be permitted in Saudi Arabia, unless Pope Benedict XVI recognised the prophet Mohammed, according to a Middle East expert. Anwar Ashiqi, president of the Saudi centre for Middle East strategic studies, endorsed this view in an interview on the site of Arab satellite TV network, al-Arabiya on Thursday. "It would be possible to launch official negotiations to construct a church in Saudi Arabia only after the Pope and all the Christian churches recognise the prophet Mohammed."
"If they don`t recognise him as a prophet, how can we have a church in the Saudi kingdom?"
Iraqi detainees refusing to go home: US general
BAGHDAD (AFP) An increasing number of Iraqi detainees are refusing to leave detention centres despite being eligible for release because they want to complete studies begun behind bars, a US general said on Sunday.
"In the last three or four months we have begun seeing detainees asking to stay in detention, usually to complete their studies," Major General Douglas Stone told a news conference in Baghdad. Some parents of juvenile detainees, too, have asked that their children remain behind bars so they can continue their schooling, said Stone, the commanding general for US detainee operations in Iraq.
The Story of a Convert from Islam – Baptized by the Pope at St. Peter's
This article describes what happened at the baptism, how the convert has had to spend the last five years with an armed guard, living with his family at a secret location. It also has his own story of his conversion in his own words, the statement by the chief author of the letter from 138 Islamic scholars last year (he's not to happy), and a reply to the statement. Long reading but interesting in light of the first article in this posting.
These next three links belong together:
Urban Legends & the Great Commission
Why Do Muslims Convert to Christianity?
The Grand Mufti on Freedom of Conscience in Islam
The first link is a critical analysis of the statement that there were 6 million conversions from Islam to Christianity in Africa every year. The article points out that the prayers of the faithful and the love shown by Christians toward one another and towards others is perhaps the biggest draw for Muslims.
The second article is about a survey done to find out why Muslims would follow Christ. Between 1991 and 2007, about 750 Muslims who have decided to follow Christ filled out an extensive questionnaire on that basic question. This article summarizes and analyzes the results. Be advised: the first comment is a VERY long (longer than harold and me put together!) and very confusing post by a Muslim who is trying to show that Christianity is false.
The third article is an analysis of an interview of the Grand Mufti of Egypt on the question of freedom of conscience in Islam. It was published in the Washington Post in 2007. Summary: freedom of conscience is allowed in Islam, but abandoning your faith undermines the stability of society, and society must defend itself. The article also includes information about an Egyptian man who wants to legally change his religion on his identity card so that his children will be legally Christian. He and his pregnant wife have had to go into hiding, and the case is still before the Egyptian courts.
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just a quick request.
i received word that one of my mom's best friends finally succumbed to her breast cancer today. She as nearly as we can tell was a believer. her mom who survives her is a believer and one of her sons, that sons kids and one other grand kid are Christians. her husband to anyone's knowledge is not although perhaps not far off given the comments he made. her daughter was my best friend growing up and will be completely and utterly devastated by this. please pray for the family, that God will give them comfort and that those who aren't believers will come to Christ. btw they aren't having a funeral but a celebration of life ceremony
Russian intelligence sees U.S. military buildup on Iran border
And...
Dick Cheney leaves Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabia 'braces for nuclear war'
Wonder what Dick said to them?
And
is Elam Iran?
If Elam is Iran, given what
Jeremiah 49: 35-37' says, maybe Iran takes a big hit before the Gog/Magog war, given the pace of current events in Iran and the middle east.
God Bless,
Grumpy
grumpy,
That is very interesting! I had given up hope that the U.S. was ever going to do anything about Iran. The information about Elam is interesting as well.
Happy April 1st, everyone!
Check out this cool video about
a newly discovered species of Flying Penguins
Blessings,
Jen
9th Circuit upholds constitutionality of Ten Commandments monument
Thanks Nate, many news stories have come out in the last five days that indicate ominous events for Iran. In fact now
Syria says it's ready in case of US military action There are warship and other military movements being reported on blogs etc., by those with inside info, that is not being reported in the MSM. I don't remember this many articles being so related to each other and to other events that portend so strongly that a war will break out. If one is going to break out, doing so before the election will most likely ensure no Democrat gets elected, which would be a Godsend for sure, even though I'm not at all happy with Bush.
The Kingdom 'braces for nuclear war
US nearing radar deal with Czech Republic to warn against Iranian missiles
Russia's UN ambassador urges Iran to hold talks on nuclear program
I just wanted to mention that at Jack Kelly's (www.gracethrufaith.com) site is a three part series called the "Seven Things You Have To know To Understand End Times Prophecy."
In my opinion, it's a good, solid basic (pre-trib) teaching on BIble prophecy and end time events.
I'm bringing this up since most folks here like Jack Kelley's teachings and some people have been asking about the sequence of end time events.
(I misplaced Grumpy's directions on hyperlinking...but will find them sooner or later.)
jib your friends family will be in my thoughts and prayers, as will all the people campsmore wrote about a few days ago.
Please keep my husband in your prayers...he is going thru a tough time. Thanks.
<><
I just read this at the Jerusalem Post website. Interesting date and year...May 14, 2008 The 60th year anniversary of Israels' birth:
"US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice believes that a framework for an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians could be reached by the planned May 14 visit to Israel of US President George W. Bush, Channel 1 diplomatic correspondent Ayala Hasson reported Sunday."
Donna, we'll be praying for your husband. lori
Jen, Shalom! I wanted to say thanks for the link to the penguins! It ranks up there with the BBC programme on the Great Italian Spaghetti Harvest story!
<><
Thanks, Lori and all :)
(Nate, I've just spent the last two and a half hours researching this, because I think it's important. I started writing this reply before my research was completed, which is why things will sound very different between the beginning of my reply and the end.)
Nate, Shalom! You wrote:
Jim, Could you write a story on how this battle would go down?
Nate, I can try, but frankly I'm not feeling much being moved by the Spirit about this. I believe Jeremiah 49:35-37 was fulfilled with the Iranian Revolution and subsequent events. The revolution lead to an Iranian diaspora (I will scatter them to the four winds, and there will not be a nation where Elam's exiles do not go.) The "bow of Elam" was destroyed during the Iraq-Iran War when thousands of their men, boys, and children were killed and "the mainstay of their might" (their oil industry) was also severely damaged: they can pump and produce the oil, but can't refine it. If they want to project force, they'll need to buy their gas and diesel fuel from other countries, meaning that the other countries have a stranglehold on their military. Whatever action Iran would plan would have to be swift and decisive, because without a way to quickly process their oil into usable products, they could not withstand a protracted war. I'm guessing that they have less than 30 days of gas and diesel stockpiled for military use, and none for civilian use.
I'm guessing nothing will come of this. We know that Persia (the major portion of Iran) will be a major player in the War of Gog/Magog. If you'll check out the original sources for the story on the "military buildup on Iran border," you'll see there's something fishy about the story. The link goes to "Abba's Watchman" web site, which details their reports from Russian intelligence. There's also a link to the "ORIGINAL ARTICLE"; clicking on this link brings you to "Alex Jones' INFOWARS.COM" website (http://www.infowars.com/). The "ORIGINAL ARTICLE" is an RIA Novosti (Russian news agency) story that INFOWARS.COM has dated March 29, 2008. If you go through the comments section, though, you'll see several people found that this article originally appeared on the RIA Novosti web site (http://en.rian.ru/) on March 27, 2007! In other words, the news story is a year old. I confirmed this myself by using Google to find the "RIA Novosti" web site. The resulting search page had the web site as the first entry. The second entry was the link to this news story, with a date stamp of 20070327.
So if we discount this news story, what we have left is a report from an Iranian news source that says the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is preparing to counter any "radioactive hazards" that may come from a US strike on Iranian nuclear facilities. The Iranian report is supposed to be based on a report in the "government-guided Saudi newspaper Okaz," meaning that this report didn't get printed in Okaz without the full knowledge, approval, and possibly at the direction of, the Saudi government. I could not find any equivalent story in any Israeli news source.
Granted, any fallout would have to go through Jordan to get to Israel, and the breezes off the Mediterranean could keep nuclear material away from the majority of the Israeli population, and the Saudis are separated from Iran by only the Persian Gulf, but I seriously can't believe that Cheney would warn the Saudis but not the Israelis. So we have a story in a Saudi government newspaper (and ONLY in that newspaper) that is being quoted by an Iranian news source. We have a year-old Russian news story being repeated on the web page of a conservative talk show host (not that I would accuse him of being a conspiracy junkie) as current news, which includes a news story/editorial about how this is all happening while America is looking the other way (A Third American War in the Making?).
I think someone is trying to jerk someone else's chain, but who's the jerkee and who's the jerk, I can't really tell.
<><
Hi all;
I just read this link this morning;
http://www.newswithviews.com/BeritKjos/kjos88.htm
It is about the influence of "new age" gaining a strong hold in the US and around the world. It is in the main stream like never before. I had a thought regarding this and wondered what you all might think about it.
Regarding the "strong delusion" at the end of the age, I thought what if the rapture took all the true Christians out and there were none left to witness to the truth of the Gospel. Wouldn't this allow this strong delusion to occur (no witnesses to the truth)? Wouldn't it also lend support to the idea of a pre-trib rapture? This thinking is also finding its way (or is already) into the compromising churches. Any thoughts on this?
God Bless!
Nate, Shalom! There's about a 3-week interval between the beginning of the 60th year of Israel and the end of the 40th year of the Unification of Jerusalem. I think that's going to be a pretty busy time, both in the world and prophetically. (It's why I spent so much time researching that stuff in my previous message.)
<><
Shalom, all! Something tells me Bush should be extra careful when visiting Israel next month:
Hamas TV puppet 'kills' Bush as revenge for U.S., Israeli actions
<><
Shalom, all! Here's an interesting question:
Would Jesus want to convert Jews?
<><
Interesting in light of the discussion yesterday (I don't know how to do clickable links): They are admitting human/animal hybrids in UK @ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7323298.stm
Jim,
With what I just read I would have to say yes!
"...because many treat Judaism as an unsaved, subordinate faith-"
Oh really? I guess some Christians may but I sure don't see it that way. If it were not for the Jews we wouldn't have the chance to be saved in the first place. Jesus tells us not to think of ourselves as "better" than the Jews.
Love the final quote:
"Rather than worrying who needs to be converted to get into heaven, Christians and Jews should join together to create heaven here on earth"
Oh,yeah and by the way, maybe we should join up with Joel Osteen. We could all be one big happy family then Jesus would want to come back.
Give me a break!!!!!
Bah Humbug!
That's what the Jews really feel isn't it? If they establish "Heaven on Earth" get their rebuilt temple in order-then Jehovah will show his face upon them again.
I think this is really a timing issue. Doesn't the Bible state that the Jews hearts are hardened? Jehovah has a plan for them and will deal with the Jewish nation on his terms and time table.
So I can see how that article would get the Jews defensive.
Personally I think open honest discussions would be of great benefit. Just letting them know about "Christian" end times events, how & why we believe that Jesus is the/their promised Messiah, and learn all we can from them in terms of their Jewish history & foundation.
JMP (just my opinion)
I've researched in the past some of the Jewish end time beliefs but if anyone has some good info on it let me know. I probably didn't even scratch the surface.
Lisa
GT,
I think this new age philosphy is the "strong delusion". At least at this particular point in time it sure seems like it.
I saw that "Secret" book in stores/airport/etc.. but had no idea what is was about.
(Obviously I never picked it up)
Good to know.
Lisa
Afternoon all,
Another prayer request for a family that our church is helping in the meals ministry....
The young mother, Janine, was diagnosed with ALS a few months ago. She was just to the Mayo Clinic and they confirmed the diagnosis and offered no new options. One of the team members delivered a meal this week and said the disease is moving rapidly. The husband is obviously grief-striken and they're not sure how/how much to tell the kids. I don't know their ages, but I think the eldest is 7. Prayers for a miracle healing are first, but also prayers for strength and discernment for all the other issues that will come up in the process.
Blessings,
Jen
PS. I didn't realize it at first, but the link from yesterday about the male pregnancy is different than the Beaties' (transgender pregnancy) story. This one, "Mr. Lee" is an actual male, not a transgendered female, who is pregnant. The doctors used the concept of ectopic pregnancy to instigate it, along with hormone therapy. Basically, the placenta is growing in the lining of his stomach tissue, not in a uterus.
GT & Lisa,
I saw an interview with the author or "The Secret" in which the question was posed, "So a child who is raped is guilty of bringing that on herself?" (Because the message of the book/movie is that of the law of attraction...we attract to us what we think/speak/believe, etc.)
The author hemmed and hawed a bit, but finally said that yes, it's painfully true that we also attract suffering to ourselves just as we attract joy/wealth/success, etc.
The interviewer was floored and had some harsh remarks in response.
That part of the book's message isn't getting nearly as much publicity as the rest.
Blessings,
Jen
Lisa, My dad converted to Judaism about 15 years ago. I recently asked him if he believes the messiah has come or is yet to come. He told me that he believes that there are many messiahs. I don't have any idea of what he's talking about now. It's one bizarre move after another.
hiccup!
Lori, would you like me to bring you some water for those hiccups?
Must check the stock in the pantry while I'm at it.
New post is up.
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