We love, because He first loved us.
**********************
Could we with ink the ocean fill,
And were the skies of parchment made,
Were every stalk on earth a quill,
And every man a scribe by trade,
To write the love of God above
Would drain the ocean dry;
Nor could the scroll contain the whole,
Tho stretched from sky to sky.
Words found scratched on the wall of an insane asylum in California, 1917
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Bless the Lord, Oh my soul and all that is within me. Bless His Holy Name!
Obama planning billion-dollar 'bailout' for abortion industry
ESCAPE TRIBULATION? -WRONG! This was a great article w/some things to ponder.
Diana,
Another strange occurance happened today. We ended up with a bearded dragon. A REAL ONE!
A Christian friend of mine who works @ my daughter's dance studio had raised one up from a baby & now that her son doesn't play w/it but rather his snake-she wanted to give it to a good home.
So now Lorraine has a new pet in her room. "Ghost" we renamed him "Ghost buster"! He came w/his 20 gallon house/stand,light,nail clippers, & even a leash for walking. She mentioned he's a picky eater & will only eat the Tropical fruit salad from Wal-Mart.
He looks to be about a foot long & is a "red" type.
She was so thrilled that Ghost was leaving & Lorraine wanted him-she drove right over w/her hubby & kids and set the entire thing up the same night. (And what exactly did I get myself into now?)
(: Lisa
Glenn Beck: Are you a Sept. 12th person?
Interesting tidbit about Brit Hume I saw on O'Reilly the other night. He, Hume, is leaving his post at Special Report :( next week and will only do some "commentary" on Fox. But, get this, during all that time off he will be concentrating on "3 G's" God, Granddaughters and Golf. When O'Reilly pressed him about the God part, "prayer?", Brit said, well yes, of course, but much studying of the Bible! Interesting.
I will miss Brit at Special Report, but I was happy to see his priorities...well, except for the golf part.
Mr. Hyde, wonderful post! Did you see that first hand? ;-)
That was an excellent article by Corrie Ten Boom Lisa. By the way, it's supposed to be warm down here!
How are you doing Marge? My son called and told me Highway 16 was shut down. He was able to make it home but he said he must have seen 30 or 40 abandoned vehicles. Sounds like you should only go out if you absolutely have too!
Crazy weather the Pacific NW is having!
Kathy,
It's better today. Cold and sunny :) But another round of snow is scheduled for this weekend, along with high winds, etc. We should be seeing some relef, along about Christmas. We hope, at least!
Very unusual for the Pacific Northwest. And for such a long stretch, too.
Good to hear from you! And enjoy the warmer weather!
Well, just about the time Kathy arrived to CA we have had an "Arctic" storm arrive. It keeps swinging around in a circle over the Pacific-around & around dumping rain on us when it heads back over land.
Well at least it's sunny today but not exactly warm. Warm for winter TN standards though.
But in all fairness-Dec & January are the coldest months here.
So Kathy-I've been thinking about you hoping this storm would take a hike.
This was posted at the Omega Letter:
I'm sure all of you at one time or another has had one of those days that it seems the whole world is falling down around you. I had one of those yesterday, or at least yesterday was one of many within the past few weeks. Since Thanksgiving I found out that my dad doesn't have but maybe a month left, and I could go on. Yesterday started out dark and gloomy. Lots of fog. My husband was to come home from another business trip. He had called to tell me that his plane was delayed and he should get in around 12. He called around 1 and said now it looks like 2. He called at 2:30 and said he was on the plane and to meet him at the airport around 3:30. There is much I am leaving out, but it was not a pleasant day. So off I go to pick him up at the airport. As I pull up being full of anger and hurt, I see a pick up truck with a big banner on the back. You see I live around Fort Hood and troops are coming back, as well as leaving. So on the back of this pick up truck was a banner that said, "Welcome home for the holidays Dad!" He was most likely coming home for his two weeks that they get from the military. There sat a young mother and her young child. On a bench outside sat a soldier, just sitting there waiting. Soon out comes a soldier running towards the truck. As he was running towards the truck out of the truck pops his wife and child. Tears running down her face as they run and give each other a huge hug. They quickly throw his things in the truck and off they go. I sat there saying thank you God for this, as I complain about my problems I see how I should feel. Next as I continue to sit there a van pulls up. The soldier sitting on the bench jumps up and runs to the van, as his young son and wife jump out. They give each other a huge hug, then he grabs his son and hugs him so tightly, while giving him kisses and tossing him in the air with such laughter. They were so very happy. You can see pictures in the paper of this, but until you see it in person it really doesn't hit home. As they were talking and just being happy, alone comes a another young child with her dad following behind her skipping alone with laughter. After a short period of time they had all left. I looked up and said Thank you God for making my day brighter. I sat at the airport for over two hours waiting for my husband to come home, only to get a call saying they had to go back to Dallas as the fog was too thick. Later that night he called and said that he was renting a car to drive home. He was bringing four soldiers home with him as well, as they were also stuck in Dallas trying to get home from Iraq. My husband got in a little after midnight. He had taken all of them to where they needed to go. You just have to open your eyes to see that God in your darkest time will be there.
Jean
Lisa,
It's probably in the 50s just north of you in the LA area. As I left for lunch, someone was also leaving the building for lunch. He wrapped his arms around himself and shivererd. Both of us laughed. But a few minutes later I laughed even more. As a child in northern Indiana, when it warmed up to the 50s in March, my friends and I could be found outside playing without wearing jackets in the warm weather.
Angie,
I was hoping for short sleeve weather while I'm here! It still could come. I'm in Whittier.
My husband and I took some family out to breakfast at the Chicken House at Knott's Berry Farm this morning. If you've ever been to Knott's, they have an exact replica of Independence Hall, brick for brick exact. After breakfast we walked over to it and went inside and listened as the signing of the Declaration of Independence was signed. You hear actors speaking the different voices of the signers. John Adams, Ben Franklin. It was very moving. I left a bit sad thinking of where our country has gone since then.
Hi everyone! Just got back home about an hour ago and had to unload my things and put them away. Well, not all of them! My son called and said that he had a great praise report for all of us. Even though there was forecastings for massive ice storms and snow in southern Missouri all the way to his home in Northern Missouri, nothing like that happened. There was snow on the ground but the highways were dry and clear. The ice storm forecast for Northern Missouri did not materialize and though there was ice on the bushes and trees, the highways were clear and he didn't have any problems at all. He said to tell you all Thanks a million. J.C. truly does believe in prayer and is my prayer partner in all things.
I will address my email box after I get a few minutes to relax in but I have missed your fellowship greatly. You know, you all are a big part of my family and a special place in my heart for each one. I thank God for your fellowship and dedication to everyone that comes here.
It is good (no, GREAT) to be back home and to my own computer and eventually, my bed.
Grany
Welcome home Wilma!
I know the feeling Grany.It's exciting to leave but a relief to get back into the old routine as well.
Kathy-Knots is great! That reminds me to take Lorraine to the Independence Hall. She's been into American History for quite some time & always seems to enjoy learning more.
I've been trying to clean up the barn area-lots of catching up to do. The people boarding their horses here just don't quite have the same cleanliness priorities as we do.
Those wheel barrels full of manure & mud are really heavy! Now I know what kept me in shape before I had it on easy street in TN. The bags of shavings & grain must way at least 100 lbs ea and the salt block felt like 50 lbs.
I'm just a cowgirl @ heart!
Mac, that was a beautiful post from OL! It sure should make us appreciate our blessings.
Also, the poem from the insane asylum is beautiful. I read it to someone who wanted a copy and I know he will ask the source. Where did you find it??
Thanks Kathy, hubby seems to be glad I am back also. Funny how things work out for everyone. My son and daughter are still grieving over the loss of their father then we all get together just to be there and the weather dumps all of the garbage on our local areas, or so people seemed to think. However, with the icy roads, not so pretty liquid air outside, we all stayed in and cooked up a storm. Wrapped Christmas presents, addressed cards and enjoyed the fireplace that my precious son-in-law kept going. There were at least 50 different kinds of cookies, several variations of candy and then the feast of wondrous foods prepared by my children. It was so great and then as I was heading to bed one night I realized that God did indeed create the most marvelous assembly when he created Adam and Eve. The power to overcome evil begins with the family and the joy of God's presence in that family setting is beyond comparison.
My son-in-law was really in tune with the Holy Spirit and shared things that he has learned in the short span of less than a year of being a new believer in Jesus Christ. If only we could be aware all year long and truly share the love of God that takes hold of most people this time of the year.
One thing before I close for the night; in the little town of Bentonville, Arkansas, home of Sam Walton and the beginning of Wal-Mart history, there is a very unique Christmas scene on the courthouse property. At the base of the steps leading into the courthouse for Benton County, Arkansas there is a Menorah and the Six pointed Star of David. The Menorah is all lights which are white and the Star is golden. Then in the middle of the adjoining square is the very colorful Christmas scene with the Nativity set up as the center and all kinds and colors of lights are delightfully crafted into a brilliant display. But the city has placed the Beginning at the foundation of the Courthouse which really hit home to me. We could never have the Bethlehem story without the Menorah and David. I love the way God tells a story, don't you.
Love you all,
Grany
Anne, I found the poem in a book by brother Yun (Living Water) - a Chinese Christian who suffered much persecution in China before escaping. The poem can be found on several blogs on the internet but I can't find the source.
It was just a few days ago that Russia succeeded, along with its fellow Quartet member the United States, in getting the UN Security Council to pass a resolution on Middle East peace.
Yet by Thursday tensions had surfaced between Israel and Russia over a purportedly imminent Russian sale of an antiaircraft missile system to Iran. The system, the S-300, is one of the most advanced of its kind in the world and would seriously hinder an attempt to strike Iran’s nuclear facilities. Russia has already sold TOR-M1 surface-to-air missiles to the regime of the mullahs.
Missing the Target
Thanks, Mac, citing the book will be sufficient.
actually the words either became a song or are part of a song. I've heard it sung many times and it is always very moving and one of my favorites-too bad I can't remember which song it is.
I think it is one of the old hymns of the faith-not the first verse or even the second but think it's the third or 4th verse, you know the ones we never sing?!
The Song is called "The Love of God" and can be heard here by Mercy Me
Authorship of the song and third stanza
perhaps the inmate in the asylum had seen a translation of the verse but it apparently was written in 1096 by a Jewish Rabbi
I believe that hymn is called "The Love of God". I learned it at camp over 30 years ago. It was our theme song that summer. Ever since then it has been one of my favorites. I do believe you are correct Joyce - that is the third verse.
I still remember the chorus -
"Oh love of God, how rich and pure, how measureless and strong. It shall forever more endure, the saints and angels' song!"
Makes my heart soar!
I guess we were posting at the same time Joyce!
I went to Pioneer Girls camp. Imagine 150 gals singing that in three parts, acapella. Beautiful!
this looks like a great book-it is a devotional book of the stories behind hymns of the faith along with scripture reading. anyway-Feb6th on page 46 of the book (In case it does not go straight to it) has a story about the hymn also-relatively the same as the other
Feb 6th, page 46 for the hymn "The Love of God"
Kathy
you were a Pioneer Girl too?! my brother couldn't say Pioneer Girls so he called us Puhgrillas.
Lisa,
Congrats on the bearded dragon! I think they are really cute. Mine is still small. I hear they can be picky eaters. Mine will pick through the veggies I give him to get just the green leaves and green pepper, he won't eat the corn or potatoes! They do seem to require alot of vitamin supplements and you have to feed the crickets before you feed them to the dragon. Plus, you have to make sure they are warm enough. Not as hard to do in So. Cal but harder in Mid Illinois! Good luck!
Diana
Joyce,
Oh yes! I was a Pioneer Girl from 6th grade clear through a senior in high school. I was a CILT at camp my last two summers. Do you know what that is? "Camper in Leadership Training." I guess they are Pioneer Clubs now. I have many happy memories as a puhgrilla. (That was cute.)
Pioneer Clubs...as in boys are also included.
Marge - stay warm. My son says a foot of snow tonight and possibly an ice storm?! Global warming?! Hmm?!
Signing off for the day...I'm going to make my niece's "bubble girl" dress for my other niece's wedding...the reason why we are here in cold So Cal! (Lisa, I'm still waiting for it to warm up!)
Hal Lindsey on Global warming and Prophecy he makes his point.
Interesting approach by a Christian on contending for the faith we are called to be salt and light which to me means us of the political system. this guy has filed a suite against Walmart for offending his religious beliefs by them saying "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" The author has a point. while we sit passively by and others "use and sue" laws of the land against us we tend not to. why is that and should we be doing something different? food for thought. discussion anyone?
My mom pulled me out of Girl Scouts after my first year as a Cadet Scout. Wanted to support the church group that was starting and she must have seen something at that time happening in the Girls Scouts that forewarned of what has happened to them now. The boys club at the time was called something different.
I went to camp one summer-best camp summer of my life although I don't remember the year I do remember the camp.
our groups fizzled out shortly after that due to lack of interest and lack of kids. we really honestly did not have that many kids in the church and I don't recall them using it as an evangelism or community outreach tool.
It's colder than normal here in AZ as well. I feel your pain.
yes we realize it's colder elsewhere but keep in mind that 40 degrees represents a rather significant drop in temperature for us. our temps are 110-120 in the peak of out hottest times and in late november it was still hitting in the upper 80's low 90's. to drop 50 degrees all at once is cold regardless of where you live!
change the picture for Alesia
interesting way to recycle
Redneck Dew Christmas Tree"
it's actually quite pretty with the lights on at night
Student Says School Persecuted Him for Being Conservative
The Russian Bear is growling
"Russia would come under crippling financial pressure and may need to raise money externally if oil languishes at an average of $30 a barrel over the next two years, the World Bank predicted Friday."
"Prime Minister Vladimir Putin warned Russia's foes on Friday against trying to destabilize a country facing broadening economic crisis, Russian news agencies reported."
The S&P downgrades the world's top 11 banks as economic crisis deepens
Anti-Semitism on the rise in wake of one of Wallstreet's biggest scams perpetrated by an American Jew
So Russia is facing an economic crisis fueled by tanking oil industry, Putin who may be back in as President soon is accusing enemies of trying to destabilize the Russian economy, the economic crisis world wide is broadening and a Jew stands accused by some of funneling money from Wallstreet to Israel... Seems like a perfect storm for something when one adds in the current attempts of the UN, Russia and the US to bind the incoming PM of Israel to negotiations that are ongoing right. Could we see an invasion of Israel to help prop up the tanking economy of Russia, coming to the aid of an ally who might have been bombed in combination with ostensibly backing up a "peace treaty" mandated by the Quartet? 2009 looks to be shaping up to be an interesting year.
Petition to free Ramos and Compean what I've read at wnd and what I've heard from Glenn Beck on this travesty is awful. Bush should, but likely won't, pardon these two men. sign the petition and lets see
Thought provoking article on the similarities of ancient Baal Worshippers and today's progressive left
Interesting article on the Madoff scandal. I had just asked last week if that might be an impetus for further anti-Semitism since he managed the money of so many very upper-crust people as well as some big corporations and charities. People will be looking for someone to blame and take out their frustrations on. I saw a little of the story reported in the Israeli newssites. Also made me think of Jerry Golden and his warnings that soon the Jews would be looking to return to Israel in droves.
Hmmmmmm......
Blessings,
Jen
I ran across this scripture last night in Malachi.
Malachi 3:16 (easy to remember as John 3:16)
"Then those who feared the Lord spoke to one another, And the LORD listened and heard them;
So a book of rememberance was written before Him for those who fear the LORD And who meditate on His name.
"They shall be Mine,"says the LORD of hosts, "On the day that I make them My jewels. And I will spare them As a man spares his own son who serves him."
Then you shall again discern Between the righteous & the wicked, Between one who serves God And the one who does not serve Him.
4.)"For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud,yes,all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up," Says the LORD of hosts, "That will leave them neither root nor branch.
But to you who fear My name The Sun of Righteousness shall arise With healing in His wings; And you shall go out And grow fat like stall-fed calves. You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this," Says the LORD of hosts.
"Remember the Law of Moses, My servant, Which I commanded him in Horeb for all of Israel, With the statues and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the lord. And he will turn The hearts of the fathers to the children, And the hearts of the children to their fathers, Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse."
are any of you on facebook also and what do you think of facebook?
**Having kids-This was good:
The Battle Before Us
2 Timothy 2:3
Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
Parents, you are desperately needed in a major battle before us.
The need was illustrated when I was asked to speak to junior high kids about sexual abstinence.
First I spoke to the girls. I introduced three senior high girls who were all taking a stand for virginity and purity. Two hundred junior high girls responded by breaking into spontaneous applause. They seemed hungry for a model other than Madonna.
The boys were different. When I introduced two high school students as young men who were committed to moral purity and to being virgins when they married, a group began laughing. They mocked the young men from the high school.
It made me mad. I bristled and walked directly toward the hecklers and told them, "That attitude is exactly what is wrong with our nation-there's little or no respect for those who have standards."
As I thought about these kids getting married I was sobered for the next generation. What kind of homes will they create? What will their children be like? I couldn't help but wonder if law and order as we now know it would be considered the "good old days."
Private Dad and Private Mom, put on your battle fatigues and expect hardship and anguish in raising a kid who doesn't always do it right. Suffer hardship as a good parent-soldier who has to give up everyday pleasures to win the war. Lay aside those golf clubs, those civic activities.
Get involved in your children's battles. Be there for them. Know their battlefields. Carefully screen those with whom they go into battle-their peers. Prepare them for the war zone of their own adolescent sex drive. Talk about it even when you are both embarrassed.
Above all, don't stick your head in a foxhole and pretend the battle doesn't exist.
Prayer:
That you and your family will be wise in battle and that God will grant you victory in the battle for moral purity.
Discuss: What are you doing to help your children win in the battle for absolutes and values?
(**Well, it may not be all that bad for the two boys who were mocked. They just may have their pick of the 200 girls who were eager for respect & moral values.)
interesting devotional from Chambers today
"Very few of us have any understanding of the reason why Jesus Christ died. If sympathy is all that human beings need, then the Cross of Christ is an absurdity and there is absolutely no need for it. What the world needs is not "a little bit of love," but major surgery.
When you find yourself face to face with a person who is spiritually lost, remind yourself of Jesus Christ on the cross. If that person can get to God in any other way, then the Cross of Christ is unnecessary. If you think you are helping lost people with your sympathy and understanding, you are a traitor to Jesus Christ. You must have a right-standing relationship with Him yourself, and pour your life out in helping others in His way— not in a human way that ignores God. The theme of the world’s religion today is to serve in a pleasant, non-confrontational manner.
But our only priority must be to present Jesus Christ crucified— to lift Him up all the time (see 1 Corinthians 2:2 ). Every belief that is not firmly rooted in the Cross of Christ will lead people astray. If the worker himself believes in Jesus Christ and is trusting in the reality of redemption, his words will be compelling to others. What is extremely important is for the worker’s simple relationship with Jesus Christ to be strong and growing. His usefulness to God depends on that, and that alone.
The calling of a New Testament worker is to expose sin and to reveal Jesus Christ as Savior. Consequently, he cannot always be charming and friendly, but must be willing to be stern to accomplish major surgery. We are sent by God to lift up Jesus Christ, not to give wonderfully beautiful speeches. We must be willing to examine others as deeply as God has examined us. We must also be sharply intent on sensing those Scripture passages that will drive the truth home, and then not be afraid to apply them."
food for thought and if the above was true in his day how much more does it need to be true today!
Jib, I just deactivated my facebook today. I'm not sure why, but I know it was the right thing to do for me.
campsmore
This computer is weird, it won't let me post under my google name...
I can prove it's me ... anyone remember Spud McKenzie? my potato friend?
Kathy,
It started snowing at approximately 3 P.M.! (Sat.)
The headlines from, the Tacoma News Tribune said, (Sat.)
"HANG ON-IT'S GONNA BE NASTY"
"Tacoma could get 8" of snow as storm brings winds, freezing rain."
Yikes! And double yikes! (from me, not the Tribune, LOL!)
Jib,
Cold weather is relitive, I know. It's not tyrpical weather now, that's for sure and certain.
Grany,
Good to have you back home, safe and sound!
Also a great praise report from your son!
Everyone,
Stay warm/dry and safe during this artic blast!
Lori,
I DO remember your potato friend :)
How is he (or she?) doing? (smile)
Jib,
I believe that we, as Christians, NEED to take a stand and contend for our Faith. OR, be silent when we no longer have the freedom, to do it. A sobering thought, but also pretty valid/accurate in today's political climate/culture.
I heard someone say, on TBN, lately. (it was an Actor, as I recall) that someone had said to them, "WHY did you chose the Christian Faith in this town? (Hollywood) Because it's about the only Faith that isn't accepted here."
How true, how true. Hollywood accepts just about anything anyone can think of, except Christianity.
In my opinion, for what it is worth, I believe we have to take a stand for our Faith. Before we no longer have the freedom to do so.
Anyone else?
Marge,
My daughter and granddaughter moved to our house so they could use our wood stove if the power goes out. My son-in-law works at Freddy's in Gig Harbor and will join them later tonight. My son who is there also said he got in his "covered wagon" and went into town for supplies.
Joyce,
I'm on Facebook so I can play Scrabble with my sister.
Lisa,
Today was actually warm to me. I finally thawed out! That Malachi passage without actually looking it up sounds like it is talking about when the Lord brings salvation to His remnant Israel, the day of the Lord judgments that occur prior to that, and a reference to one of the two witnesses that the Lord will use to point His people back to Him.
Kathy,
It's after 9 P.M., (still Sat.) and it's been snowing since 3 P.M. here. The winds have begun, and the snow is blowing sideways now :) Brrr!
I also went grocery shopping today. Bob (one of my sons) picked me up in his 4 by 4, and I shopped at the Puyallup (River Road) Freddy's. It was packed, and I stood in line for 45 min. to get checked out! When I left, the lines were even worse! (this was about Noon)
I may get thawed out, sometime in June, LOL! Enjoy your visit in So. CA., and don't forget about us in westen WA. :)
Love,
Marge
Marge - I just spoke with my daughter and son. They are amazed at what is transpiring. I wish I were there to see it! My son-in-law is an assistant manager at the Gig Harbor Freddy's. He said today it was the busiest it's ever been. 13 or 14 people in each check out line, backed up down the aisles. Sounds like everyone is buying supplies, preparing for the worst. My daughter and granddaughter are supposed to fly out of SeaTac on Tuesday to come down to the wedding. My daughter is a bridesmaid. She's concerned about being able to make it. Alaska Airlines canceled 47 flights today. They are flying Alaska. Then, my son and son-in-law are supposed to fly down on Christmas Eve. Hmm...it's in the Lord's hands...and you are too! Thanks for keeping me updated also.
let's be in prayer for all those traveling in the next few days as well as Nate's Christmas program. my folks are flying from Ohio to Az tomorrow and are supposed to be leaving in bad weather.
My daughter told me my son-in-law now plans on sleeping at work, won't even try to make it to our house. He works the swing shift and gets off at midnight.
How are you doing Jim G?
Marge - Don't we have another cave dweller who's from W. WA?
Kathy,
Today was a nice day!
I thought the same thing re:the remnant of Israel in chapter 4.
Chapter 3:16-18 may have a double meaning.
The book of Malachi begins w/Israel beloved of God then mentions the Polluted Offerings and how He will not accept their offerings but His name shall be great among the Gentiles & among the Nations in verse 11. (Church Age perhaps?)
The corrupt Priests are then mentioned, the people's infidelity then onto a prophesy of John the Baptist & the coming of Jesus. After that- not Robbing God & then Jews being complainers.
Then finally the subject of "People who fear the Lord" are brought up. So this may include both the Gentiles previously mentioned in verse 1:11 & the faithful Jews. It seems to definitely turn toward the Jewish remnant "in the Day of the Lord " by Chapter 4:1.
Anyway, that's what I've understood it to be so far.
Then of course I fantasized about being around when Elijah the prophet comes back- Not that I as a pre-trib type think I will be but-certainly it would be awesome to experience.
Choosing A Church
Obama's next big decision—and its implications.
The funniest thing just happened. I was concentrating on reading an article when all of a sudden the sound of a shofar came forth.
I immediately thought to myself="The sound of the trumpet blast!” I looked toward the window then down from the sound coming out of the laptop- Naa-no way would I just hear "The trumpet call" from a computer!
So I clicked on another tab & somehow a video from Mark Blitz site started to play & that was producing the shofar sound. I didn't press the play button-so? But it sure made me laugh!
Well at least I'm convinced that sound will perk my ears up (:
In fact strangely enough a Christian friend of mine was over tonight & I had blown my shofar once for her.
Ok-I am not going to freak myself out. Now I'm remembering the Locust crawling on the feet story.
Memoirs of an Emergent Church Victim This was a good testimony about someone's church going into apostasy & being worried about finding a new one.
Jim C,
You might be interested in checking out the background of
Thomas Merton (1915-1968). Scroll down Here and you will find an article.
Also the 1st article on Rick Warren is good. **That is what I was origionally looking up for my friend tonight.
Shalom, all! It's been an interesting couple of days here. For one thing, I'd like to ask for prayers for my ex-wife Lena. She's in Chicago studying Criminal Justice (she wants to work for Homeland Security) and has been running into problems. For one thing, her workplace started outsourcing their work to India and China, and so laid her off; for another thing the company that translated her academic records from Russia mistranslated them, so instead of being credited with her Masters level work and finishing her degree in two years, she's going to have to take extra classes and finish in four years. Her school is doing nothing to help her with the translators, and when she askes about scholarships and grants they just give her a list of online sites to apply. Needless to say, she is becoming very discouraged.
Lisa, that was very interesting about Malachi! What struck me in reading the section that begins with "4)" in your quote (verse 19 in the NAB) was a memory of the Priests of Hiroshima. You can read a quick explanation here of what happened to them. There were a group of eight German Jesuits that lived in a wooden house attached to a stone church in Hiroshima. They were half a mile (one kilometer) away from the atomic bomb ground zero, and by all rights should have been killed outright, yet all of them survived with relatively minor injuries. Because they were within a mile of the blast, they should have, at the least, died fairly quickly of radiation poisoning; yet all of them lived until their 70's and 80's with no ill effects. Truly, in the day "burning like an oven," they rose with healing in their wings.
(You can read more about them Rosary Miracle at Hiroshima, which is a good overview of the important details. There are conflicting details in different reports of the aftermath -- some say the house where the Jesuits lived survived while the church was destroyed; others say the church only had the roof taken off. There's some evidence that the difference in details is due to attempts by the US Army of Occupation to hide or supress some of these details. After all, everthing else within one mile of the hypocenter was levelled; it was easier to supress this information than to reveal to the public -- and America's enemies -- that a Roman Catholic church did survive when everything else was destroyed.
This would also account for some of the differences in details cited by The Berean Call in their article Hiroshima Myth. In it, they cite excerpts from another priest's eyewitness account, which would indicate the priests received more serious wounds than they themselves recounted. Yet if you read the complete account you'll see that while the wounds they received may have been serious, they were not life-threatening in the end; and the wooden house survived when other wooden structures at that distance were burning. In other words, the priests lived and their structures survived when everything else around was damaged or destroyed, and everyone else in the immediate region either died within a few days of radiation poisoning or within 15 years of cancer.)
As for that "Lighthouse Trails Research" site, I find the whole site interesting but not particularly reliable. From what I can tell, they don't like anything with the word "contemplative" in it, and appear to work to reject anything that can have that label in it. This means they appear to automatically reject a great deal of Catholic spirituality. While Merton is not as popular as he was twenty years ago, and while his works have tended to be misused by non-Catholic sources, his early works such as "Seven Storey Mountain" have withstood the test of time. Given their bias, I'm not particularly impressed by their analysis of Merton.
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Lisa, Shalom! I just finished reading that article you linked to about the "Emergent Church Victim". It examplifies what I was referring to in my last message about the Lighthouse Trails site. When she writes, And one elder blatantly recommended a book -- two weeks in a row -- by prominent Catholic mystic Henry Nouwen who is a father to the contemplative prayer movement. My trust level was tanking, the problem is not Henri Nouwen. The problem is that this church is mixing secularism with the Bible. If this church was sticking strictly to the Bible and not citing Oprah, or not teaching "breathing lessons", then Nouwen might be an excellent resource.
I'm saying this because there have been thousands of men and women who have belonged to Catholic Contemplative religious orders, and have never had problems like what this person describes. These religious orders are built around meditating, or "contemplating" the Word of G_D. Trust me, they don't now and never have had to depend on Oprah or "breathing lessons" to aid in their prayer lives.
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Jim c
having read a number of articles at Lighthouse trails on different things I think a point of clarification is called for.
It's not so much the contemplative that they are discounting but the fact that Merton and Nouven are not your traditional contemplative Catholics-they received and have noted themselves that their contemplative training comes from Buddhists and the Buddhist tradition which IS a problem because that IS the same New Age stuff.
I'll grant you in centuries past contemplative catholics probably weren't guilty of using eastern mysticism but these guys are and that's what the difference is
Jim C
two other points
1-one of the end times authors wrote another book and said that very early in church history, Satan brought pagan practices into the church to dilute it's effectiveness. His point was about Mary worship since that is a direct descendant of Baal worship but suffice it to say it might also be true of other practices. He said something to the effect that the more persecution that the church underwent the stronger and more vital it became so Satan then influenced history to have Christianity become the state church and it started to be less vital than it was thus conquering the saints by dilution if you will. We can see this in the Protestant evangelical circles now with the emergent church I think. Within the recent past the evangelicals have been very effective for Christ so again Satan is trying a new tactic to dilute the effectiveness of the armies of Christ.
2-just because something has been practiced for centuries doesn't mean it's correct. As an example nearly all denominations taught for centuries that the Jews had forfeited God's favor thanks to folks like Augustine and Luther, that they would never be a country again and that the church had replaced Israel. We now know that to be a false teaching and yet it was a foundational bedrock teaching for many centuries of all denominations. Further, you can't possibly know that the folks who practiced contemplative lives previously didn't have some sort of trouble.
Lisa,
If Elijah comes before the day of the Lord and the day of the Lord will not overtake believers (1 Th. 5), I see scriptural support for us possibly being here to see that CNN headline..."The Two Witnesses Call Down Fire on Tehran"...or something of that nature!
In the mean time, have a great Lord's Day all, rejoicing in the fact that we are not destined for His Day of the Lord judgments because His blood has redeemed us!
Kathy,
What you're missing is prety amazing, alright.
But, you may want to think you are being blessed by escaping the artic blast, too :)
Grace is from the Vancouver, WA. area.
And Stacy is from Portland, OR. (I sure do miss her Scripture, and postings!)
This morning, I heard that half of Alaska Airlines flights were canceled. (today)
However, the forecast is for one front after another. In between times, there will be lulls between the storms.
Jib,
Agreeing with you, in prayer.
A great big, Brrr, from western WA. :)
The good news is that the sun is coming out now :)
Love,
Marge
Taking a break from making cookies and all of that to say a quick hello.
It is snowing here like crazy...we have a foot and a half or so of snow I would say and it seems there is no end in sight.
It is beautiful. Everything is so white and pretty.
I hope and pray all is well with all of you....although I do realize that things will only be truly well with all of us once we are with Him forever and ever!
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Kathy,
If Elijah suddenly showed up in Israel would you take the next flight out of here? (I would sure be tempted to!)
I know-it depends upon where/what the Holy Spirit was directing.
But just think? How many Christians would want to go & see him & the other witness (Moses?) preach? If we were all still here there would be a flood of us going to Israel.
Unless-the "supernatural displays" were too intimidating or he told the body of Christ to stay put.
Wow-I can't even imagine it. Wouldn't that give the Christians boldness to preach the gospel of Christ at a time Elijah & possibly Moses are back on earth!
No wonder there will be so many martyrs. Many Christians possibly for the first time in their lives will be filled to overflowing w/the Holy Spirit & out there driving the unbelievers & heathens crazy.
Sticking their necks out when the majority of the world thinks they have found "Peace." Now that they will finally believe they have attained peace via the Anti-Christ-the worldly will not want to hear the message more than ever.
Whomever is here to witness these events will certainly have some grand experiences.
The Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs: "We need an international order"
Choice of Pastor Aims to Bridge Divide-Obama/Rick Warren
To conclude the course's segment on science fiction the professor assigned the class a paper, on any topic they wished having to do with science fiction. The next week, after the papers had been turned in, the professor was grading them and came across this paper:
There once was an Israeli border guard named Isaac. Across the border from Isaac, Abdul, an Arab border guard, had his post. One night, Abdul crept over the border and killed Isaac.
When Isaac's commander found out what had trans- pired the previous night, he was furious, and the next night, he and his squad staged a raid in which several Arab border guards, including Abdul, were killed.
This, of course lead to Arab reprisals, which in turn lead to Israeli reprisals, which in turn...ad infinitum. Eventually, the Arabs and Israelis were at war.
Well, the professor read this paper, and being utterly confused, reread it, shook his head in disgust, and wrote a large "F" on it, in red ink, and then moved on to the next paper.
The next day, at the end of class, he handed back the papers, and as he was preparing to leave, the student who received the "F" approached and asked to speak with the professor.
"I don't understand why you didn't like my paper," the student said.
"It's very simple," the professor replied. "You were assigned to write a paper on science fiction. This paper has nothing whatsoever to do with the assigned subject."
"I must disagree," said the student. … "I think that my paper examined the very basis of Zion's Friction."
Yes Lisa, that time is definitely going to be incredible.
Marge, my daughter posted pics at her blog of our snow. I have NEVER seen that much snow at our place in the 20 years we've lived in Western Washington! And she said more fell after she posted those images!
That's not 'snow'. That's just a light dusting.
You Americans are hilarious.
I want to be marked by your peace, Lord. I need it so that I don't worry myself silly. More than that, I need it for your glory—so that others might see the wonderful comfort and assurance that is available only in You. Teach me how to rest in the knowledge that you are in control.
Snowfall is relative...I know, but that is a lot of snow for us in Western Washington made in Canada! Normally we'll get a dusting or a couple of inches...maybe once or twice a winter...It is very unusual for it to accumulate like that where we are.
Right on Kathy-the fact that Washington state more than likely doesn't have the appropriate equipment to deal with that kind of snow fall makes it even worse for them. obviously not practical or economical to keep equipment around for which you have little to no use.
Lisa
interesting articles especially the one about the Dutch guy. thought the responses were interesting also
Our Commander in Chief and his private mission to the troops and their families-this is a must read
Iran using Venezuela to duck UN Sanctions and ship missile parts to Syria
Perhpas the hook in the Russian jaw for Gog and Magog? after all in view of their tanking economy if Israel were to penetrate this defense system and actually hit Iran what do you think would happen?
Gaza flashpoint
Joyce, what exacerbates the problem where we are and Seattle is all the hills. Driving is treacherous because of that. Even if just a couple of inches of snow falls, schools get closed as buses would turn into pinball machines...you may have seen videos of cars doing the same thing?
Lisa, imagine someone mocking the two witnesses...one poof and they could be incinerated!
Made in Canada,
Feel free to come and collect your snow :)
People from back east think it's a joke, as well.
Until they actually see first hand, how we're not set up for extreme weather conditions.
Sea-Tac airport was literally closed down on Sunday. Why? Because they'd run out of de-icer.
Jib,
You were right on the money!
Plus that, if we do get snow, it's usually gone in a couple of days. We're into the second week now :(
With little relief in sight, until the coming weekend. (of the snow/ice thawing)
Anyhow, enough snow, EEK!
Kathy,
I'll look at your daughter's pictures. I'm thinking you got about 12" in Gig Harbor?
My son, (Bob) that lives in Tacoma got about 12".
But, here in the Puyallup Valley, we got about half that, or even less.
(I haven't ventured outside...yet :)
Live, from western WA., this is your local (smile) weather report :)
The good news is that Sea-Tac has gotten in more de-icer! So they're open for business! Some of those people have been stranded for several days now :(
Love to all,
Marge
Kathy,
I almost forgot. Hiway 410 has been closed in the Buckley area all weekend long, (and still is closed this morning!) due to a fallen power pole. (no one lost their electricity, though :)
Jib, Check this out & whomever is interested:
Speech of
JAVIER SOLANA-EU High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy
Managing Global Insecurity"Take the G-8. At present it does not really work effectively. It needs to change its membership.
Why not make it a G-10 in which the ten major countries are represented based on a composite
index of international weight (GDP, aid, soldiers and civilians deployed on peace support
missions)? This would not only bring China and India in but also keep some current members on
their toes..."
Toes? How about Daniel's 10?
Marge, you are so funny. My son just called and said he is seeing people cross country skiing in Tacoma. Too much! He made it to work ok. He works at TG. He said another 3-4 inches tonight?! He lived in Fairbanks for three years and is used to driving in these bad conditions. My kids are thinking they might not be able to make it down with all the flight cancellations and more snow headed that way???
Jib, Thanks for mentioning looking @ the comments on "International Order" article.
I went back and was quite "enlightened". Some of the posts were commenting on how strong the Masonic influnce is there. This one post in particular stuck me as she? sums up just about everything I've kept track of re:RFID,Security Measures,& society in general becoming PC brainwashed.
It looks as if they are far more "advanced" and down the road with all the new technologies attempting to be sprung on us here in America. Then when she made the UFO comment? What?
I'm wondering what is going on over there. Does all of this govt. implemented control somehow bring this subject to light somehow or is there more activity of some sort happening over there.
Can you imagine here if we were speking w/other people of all the "big brother" controls being implemented and the response we get is tied into some sort of UFO phenomena? Right now this would not be the case but if/when we get to the social regulations that they already have who knows?
Through Obama- America will most likely adopt some of these same measures.
Mariella Says:
December 19th, 2008 at 9:24 am
"The official nickname which Verhagen is known for by his colleagues and parliamentary reporters is “the Rat”; Maxime “the Rat” Verhagen.
After his Bilderberg attendance he gave a few interviews for the Dutch tv-news in which he posed in front of a marble plaque with the fascist axe, the fascii.
Seems like the Netherlands is at the forefront of introducing the NWO on the people. Even before 9-11 the Dutch secret service was routinely monitoring all of our phonecalls and was so experienced at this that, apparently, the NSA and CIA would come and take practical advice from us on how to snoop on their unsuspecting citizens. Since then, the NSA has a big spying station set up at Zoutkamp, in the province of Groningen.
After 9-11 the government has introduced many NWO methods by stealth on the Dutch population.
Police are now routinely monitoring all licenceplates in the streets and crosschecking them against criminal databases to search for outstanding fines and warrants.
They have secretly set up lampposts to monitor the sounds in the street to specifically check for people raising their voices in anger.
In my hometown they secretly put up ‘mosquitos’ which emit irritating low frequency noise only heard by children up to 16 years of age, to prevent them from loitering.
They set up camera systems all around our capital to capture all incoming and outgoing vehicles and their passengers.
They are forcing all travelers by train, tram, tube and bus to use an exclusive travelpass that registers your every move.
They are forcing biometric RFID passports on us and demand we carry them when we leave the house.
Those are just a few examples of how the government is introducing the NWO by stealth in the Netherlands. Apparently we are some kind of testing ground of long term social experiments, probably because there are so many of us in such a small area.
The current mindset of the Dutch is very very scary. Most of us have stopped thinking for ourselves completely, and have become totally selfabsorbed infantilistic consumers, unable to relate to anything that does not concern ourselves. Our eyes glaze over when confronted with news that has not been on the 8 o’clock news.
You will not find the dicussions here you see all taking place over the world via the internet and the massmedia, about 9-11, the illegal wars or the NWO.
Here in Holland people will either say “I have nothing to hide”, immediately drop the C-word (how odd the sheople here are always so thoroughly familiar with that word) when confronted with such subjects, or else it will only take them a minute to start raving about aliens, UFO’s, cropcircles or poleshifts.
Us Dutch people have forgotten what freedom is and how our freedom came about. We have begun to think that freedom is all about the freedom to choose between different products. We have begun to identify our freedom as consumerism, and express our individuality through massproduced brands.
Meanwhile, little rats like Verhagen and Balkenende (though you may call him Harry Potter) are actively implementing a hostile takeover from within.
They are now - amongst other things - officially guilty of war crimes and high treason, and as such no longer legal respresentatives of our nation. However, there is this big charade going on, enabled by their fellow politicians and the massmedia, that they can not to be held accountable for their actions.
It has become customary for our PM to refuse to answer to just about anything. He personally keeps on blocking an investigation into the Iraq War to cover up his own government’s warcrimes. And, interestingly, he has also begun throwing people in jail for insulting the Queen.
O dear, there is so much going on. We are in such a mess…"
(BTW-what is the C word?)
Pastor Rick Warren defends invite to inauguration" 'You don't have to see eye to eye to walk hand in hand', said Warren."
"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" (Amos 3:3)
US Developers ask for Bail Out
OK-just get in line for the tax payer "bailout" money. What a complete joke this is. We foreknew the house of cards was going to fall but when your in the middle of the collapse it's sure a sight to behold~!
Those Chinese are sneaky! Jim C. What do you think?
Chinese Air Force Goes Underground
Kathy,
I was outdoors, getting the snow off our covertible tops, and warming the cars up, etc. We got about 4", in the valley.
You know, it's just where you live, and which Weather Prophets you listen too :) If you go to:
www.nwcn.com, you can put in your zip code, and get a much better/more accurate forecast, than listening to what is going on in Seattle, Renton, and such, too.
Sea-Tac is saying, be sure to call ahead, and check your flight. Because depending on the Airlines, and flights, who knows what flight could be cancelled, or not.
It's a Winter Wonderland here, that's for sure and certain. Most of us are "wondering" what's going to be happening next, really :) At this point 5 miles could make a difference as to road conditions.
As you know, the valley is considerered to be the Banana Belt.
And we got 4". With more snow, for sure, tomorrow. This evening, is still questionable. (here)
Well, I'm headed out to our mailboxes. About 6 city blocks away from the house. Good times :)
I dunno, Kathy. From what I'm seeing, I'd say, staying put is one good idea for the next couple of days.
I had 3 of my children at T.G. Once I was tempted to sneak out, and get a Frisko Freeze burger though, LOL! I didn't, but I sure thought about it one night. (that was in 1966!)
Brrr, from western WA. :)
Love,
Marge
Actually, it's warmer, than it has been.
My daughter just measured...15 inches at our place...CRAZY! Thanks for all the updates Marge. This has been fun!
Marge...I'll let you know if my daughter makes it. She told me the airport is now running out of food! She was getting pretty stressed about it. She then told me that last night she had a good talk to herself. She realizes the Lord just wants her to trust Him in all of this...makes this mom smile!
Marge,
Forecast of snow of the Los Angeles area: 0"
:-)
Rain is another story. Me with my old van and its leaky windshield. I think there's 1/8 of an inch on the driver's-side matt.
Kathy,
I'll be praying for your family's safety!
Angie,
I know all about that one. I had a Mustang 11, with one of those sun roofs in it, about 15 years ago. We never could get the thing from leaking :( It never got too bad on the driver's side, but on the passenger's side, it would drip, then it would funnel down, nice (NOT!) icy cold water. It got so bad, my dog refused to ride with me, when it rained, LOL! And he loved his car rides, too!
I'll check in later :)
Love,
Marge
I wish people would stop spreading these cold weather rumours.
Sharing your faith
Immanuel - God with us
I have a new favorite singer
Hayley Westenra has the most beautiful voice and she's just a kid, 27!
Here she is singing Amazing Grace
You should also listen to Mary, did you know. Beautiful.
Sorry, I didn't mean 27 I meant 21
Troubling headlines at Drudge. Sorry no links.
Widespread winter blast strands holiday travelers...
Bitter cold, high winds...
Live Chill Map...
'All parts of Canada' may see first white Christmas since '71...
SEVERE COLD WAVE TO HIT EUROPE...
Beijing's coldest December day in 57 years...
What the?
"I wish people would stop spreading these cold weather rumours."
Al - you gave yourself away with the spelling!
LOL
Lisa, Shalom! RE: the Chinese military going underground, I think that's an interesting approach, and one well suited for them. I'm not aware of any American submarine bases being underground, but that doesn't mean they're not there, just that they're secret. I know Area-51 had underground air hangers, but that was because it was the main site for test flights of secret technology.
There are a couple of things that interest me in the article. For one thing, I wonder if these bases are hardened; and if so HOW hardened and against what? EMP or nearby nuclear detonation? Also, I noticed the article mentioned both nuclear AND diesel-electric subs. The great majority of the Chinese submarine fleet are the diesel-electric subs, i.e., WW2-class subs. The diesel is for running on the surface (which they do most of the time); the electric is for running underwater (which they do when preparing to attack). I don't think the US has any of these types of subs anymore, except possibly for training. These subs are no match for any of our subs, although they could pose a threat to our surface ships (not a big one though).
The locations of the sub and airplane bases is interesting because (to me) it assumes a defensive action. If the bases aren't hardened against a nuclear strike, then they're assuming a conventional attack will come from the sea, probably from carriers coming from the Sea of Japan. Aircraft carriers are generally used to project force. Apparently, according to this article at Globalsecurity.org (Aircraft Carrier Project), the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLA Navy) is strictly a coastal defense force. So any aircraft carriers that China eventually builds would be used in that capacity.
At this time, the PLA Navy does not have any aircraft carriers, and the Central Committee is still "seriously considering" building one. If in fact they DID build one, it wouldn't be finished until 2015 at the earliest. It's possible that if the Chinese aircraft are long-range aircraft, they could be used with the surface navy and the submarines in an action against Taiwan, although there's no evidence that anything like that is planned or in the planning stages.
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An article from Time:
Finding Jesus in London
My biggest concern is, is this the gay Anglican Church or the traditional Anglican Church?
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Hi Marge, Jib, Wilma and everyone...
Just wanted to make an announcement to let you know that I'm gonna be a GRANDMA!! :) YAHOO!! What a wonderful Christmas surprise for us all! My daughter Kayla and her hubby Nathan came by last night with a Christmas card for Steve, Beamer and me. We opened it up and there inside was an ultrasound photo of my GRANDBABY! :) They had just come from the ultrasound and made copy's to put in the cards as a surprise. We are just thrilled as they have been married for almost 5 years now. She is about 20 weeks along and due in May. They do not know the gender yet but maybe later on will decide to find out.
We are so thankful to our Father for His wonderful blessings to us!
GOD IS GOOD AND IS ALLLLL THE TIMES!
Love Judy
That delete was mine...somehow my post came up twice. Must have been my excitement! :)
Love Judy
To all my fellow cave dwellers;
Have a blessed Lord's birthday! (it may not be the correct time of year but we celebrate it anyway).
May He draw us all closer to Himself through the coming year.
May He return soon so that the world will know HE IS LORD OF ALL!!!
Maranatha!!
Judy,
I don't blame you for being excited! Congratulations on your new Grandbaby! Great news, indeed!
Praise the Lord!!!
God IS good, and good all the time!
Please, keep us in the "loop," okay? I'm just so happy and excited for you guys!
This will be a Christmas you won't soon forget :)
Celebrating with you!
Love,
Marge
Al G.,
Please keep us informed :)
Any and all explainations are also appreciated at this time.
Inquiring minds would love to know what the...is really going on.
Did you really invent the Internet???
Alesia,
How are you doing now?
Al G. made me smile, but don't tell him that, okay?
Love,
Marge
Merry Christmas to all you Cave Mates!
I will be so busy with our earthly families the next two days and so I want to wish you all the blessings of our dear Lord and Saviour. We are so blessed, and yes, God is good all the time regardless and always.
Thank you, Father.
Well it's Christmas eve here in mac's house and he's let me out of the closet for a while...so watch out!
Come worship our King
A Blessed Christmas to ALL.
Lisa
that was a chilling article on Solana. interestingly enough Frucht teaches that the one world government will be on the scene and functioning before the AC comes on the scene. and the number 10 seems to be the magic number so to speak doesn't it. wow.
I don't remember which of you posted the link on the Anglican church thing but Alpha is also offered in the US. it has been tagged by at least one of the discernment groups as being to closely allied with the emergent church or contemplative sorry don't remember. for more info see here from the most accurate (not) fount of wisdom known as wikipedia or here from the US website
We need to pray for this family-children being starved to force mom to convert back to Islam
North Korea threatens 'sea of fire' attack
Jerry Golden: The way it looks in Israel
Olmert orders Jerusalem barrier completed by 2010
Raul Castro, Russia N Fleet dpty commander hold talks
Venezuela's Chavez denies Iran-Syria weapons connection
Israeli PM visits Turkey for Mideast peace talks
Turkey plans to purchase 32 strike helicopters from Russia
Iran says it plans gas pipeline venture with Turkey
Tony Blair: Religions' Role In Global 'Alliance Of Values Read #3 of the 10 lessons he's learned...
Cell Phone Spying
Know you are all in my thoughts and prayers!
Merry Christmas!!
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Article from American Thinker discussing hatred of Jews and Christians:
The Light of Hope in Darkness
Nearly forgot...congratulations Judy!!
Lisa
I have no idea btw what the "c" word is referenced in the article.
Judy
congrats!
Good for the Pope!
What will really save us from economic downturn
Hamas ends the truce insightful article on the rumors of wars in the ME I think
1
For Zion's sake I will not be silent, for Jerusalem's sake I will not be quiet, Until her vindication shines forth like the dawn and her victory like a burning torch.
2
Nations shall behold your vindication, and all kings your glory; You shall be called by a new name pronounced by the mouth of the LORD.
3
You shall be a glorious crown in the hand of the LORD, a royal diadem held by your God.
4
No more shall men call you "Forsaken," or your land "Desolate," But you shall be called "My Delight," and your land "Espoused." For the LORD delights in you, and makes your land his spouse.
5
As a young man marries a virgin, your Builder shall marry you; And as a bridegroom rejoices in his bride so shall your God rejoice in you.
Isiah 62:1-5, from the readings for Christmas Mass.
<><
Jib, Shalom! I had mentioned about the Anglican church thing in London. Where I go to church (the Catholic Student Center at the local university), they have used Alpha in the past two years, but not this year. It was pitched as a tool to reach the unchurched going to the University -- if your roomate or classmate had questions about Christianity, you could invite them to this course/free meal (always a good draw with students!) I think it was offered because of the increase in the number of students who simply don't have any religious background, and it seemed like a good "Introduction to Christianity".
I think it's associated with the "Emergent Church" phenomenon simply because it is such a good tool to reach out to the unchurched, and as I understand it, most of the EC's target audience is the unchurched. So I think the result has more to do with the goals of the sponsoring organization: I can safely say that my parish is NOT associated with the EC movement! That's why I wondered about the politics of the Anglican church mentioned in the article. The results of the Alpha program will be very different depending on if it's a church associated with the gay Anglicans or if it's a traditional Anglican church.
<><
" Is there any evidence from the Bible that will help us fix the date and year of Christ's birth?
Actually from the Bible, we can at least determine the probable season and year of His birth. The most convincing proof of when Jesus was born comes in understanding the evidence that is presented in the book of Luke concerning the birth of John the Baptist.
Luke 1:5-17 says:
In the days of King Herod of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly order of Abijah. His wife was a descendant of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. Both of them were righteous before God, living blamelessly according to all the commandments and regulations of the Lord. But they had no children, because Elizabeth was barren, and both were getting on in years. Once when he was serving as priest before God and his section was on duty, he was chosen by lot, according to the custom of the priesthood, to enter the sanctuary of the Lord and offer incense. Now at the time of the incense offering, the whole assembly of the people was praying outside. Then there appeared to him an angel of the Lord, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. When Zechariah saw him, he was terrified; and fear overwhelmed him. But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you will name him John. You will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He must never drink wine or strong drink; even before his birth he will be filled with the Holy Spirit. He will turn many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. With the spirit and power of Elijah he will go before him, to turn the hearts of parents to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."
Zechariah was of the division of Abijah (Luke 1:5,8). Back in King David's day, the priests had been separated into 24 turns or divisions. These turns began in the first month of the Jewish calendar (1 Chronicles 27:2), March or April of our modern calendar. According to Talmudic and Qumran sources, the turns rotated every week until they reached the end of the sixth month, when the cycle was repeated again until the end of the year. This would mean that Zechariah's division served at the temple twice a year.
We find in 1 Chronicles 24:10 that Abijah was the eighth division of the priesthood. Thus, Zechariah's service would be in the tenth week of the Jewish year. Why the tenth week? Because all divisions served during primary feast weeks of the Jewish year. So all of the divisions of the priesthood would serve during Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread (the third week of the year). Likewise, all of the divisions of the priesthood would serve during the Feast of Weeks or Pentecost (the ninth week). Thus, the eighth course of the priesthood would end up serving on the tenth week of the year.
Now we must make an assumption here. Remember we said that Zechariah's division served at the temple twice a year. The Bible does not specify which of the two shifts of service it was. Regardless, nine months after one of the two dates John the Baptist was born. This would place his birth in March or September.
We will assume that Luke is recording Zechariah's first shift of service for the year. We will find that assumption tends to prove true as we discover the dates of John the Baptist's and Jesus' birth. Therefore, the date of Zechariah's service would be the Jewish date of Sivan 12-18 (See the Companion Bible, Appendix 179, Section III).
Picking up the story in Luke 1:23-25:
When his time of service was ended, he went to his home. After those days his wife Elizabeth conceived, and for five months she remained in seclusion. She said, "This is what the Lord has done for me when he looked favorably on me and took away the disgrace I have endured among my people."
After his service in the temple, Zechariah went home to his wife. Due to the laws of separation (Leviticus 12:5; 15:19,25), two additional weeks have to be counted. Now I don't know about you, but if an angel had told me that I was going to have a special child, I would get to it just as soon as the law allowed. So we will make a second assumption, that Elizabeth conceived a child two weeks after Zechariah's return.
Allowing for this and going forward a normal pregnancy places the birth of John the Baptist at the time of the Passover (Nisan 15)! The Jews always looked for Elijah to return on the day of Passover. Even in modern times there is an empty chair and a table setting for Elijah whenever Passover is celebrated. Little children also go to the door of the home and open it in anticipation of Elijah's coming. The Old Testament prophets had said that God would send Elijah before the coming of the Messiah (Malachi 3:1; 4:5-6). According to these calculations John the Baptist was born at Passover. Remember the angel's words to Zechariah? The angel said that John the Baptist was to come "in the spirit and power of Elijah" (Luke 1:17). Elijah came at Passover!
Continuing in Luke 1:26-36:
In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a town in Galilee called Nazareth, to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you." But she was much perplexed by his words and pondered what sort of greeting this might be. The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And now, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you will name him Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his ancestor David. He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"
The angel said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be called Son of God. And now, your relative Elizabeth in her old age has also conceived a son; and this is the sixth month for her who was said to be barren.
Luke tells us that Elizabeth was six months pregnant when the angel Gabriel visited Mary. The beginning of Elizabeth's sixth month would have been the celebration of the Jewish feast of Hanukkah, which occurs in December of our modern calendar. Hanukkah (Chanukkah) is known as the "Feast of the Dedication" (John 10:22) because it is connected with the dedication of the second Jewish temple and the rededication of the temple after the Maccabean revolt. Mary was being dedicated for a purpose of enormous magnitude: God's presence in an earthly temple, i.e. a human body (John 2:18-21).
If Mary did conceive on Hanukkah, John the Baptist would have been born three months later at Passover. And assuming a normal pregnancy of 285 days, Jesus would have been born on the 15th day of the Jewish month of Tishri (September 29 by modern reckoning). This is significant because it is the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot). It is a high day, a special Sabbath, a time of great rejoicing.
The Feast of Tabernacles and Jesus
As you have seen, the birth of our Lord can be reasonably shown to have occurred in the autumn of the year on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles. The Feast of Tabernacles is a joyful feast. Jewish believers would build a tabernacle or booth known as a "sukkah" out of green tree branches. They would eat their meals and sleep in this sukkah for eight days.
There are some very interesting connections in Scripture with Jesus and aspects of the Feast of Tabernacles.
John 1:14 says:
And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. [literal translation of the Greek]
Look at what Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi has to say concerning this verse:
To introduce the nature and mission of Christ, John in his Gospel employs the metaphor of the "booth" of the Feast of Tabernacles. He explains that Christ, the Word who was with God in the beginning (John 1:1), manifested Himself in this world in a most tangible way, by pitching His tent in our midst: "And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, as of the only Son from the Father" (John 1:14).
The Greek verb skenoo used by John means "to pitch tent, encamp, tabernacle, dwell in a tent." The allusion is clearly to the Feast of Tabernacles when the people dwelt in temporary booths. In his article "The Feast of Tents: Jesus' Self-Revelation," published in Worship (1960), David Stanley notes that this passage sets the stage for the later self-revelation of Jesus at the Feast of Tabernacles in John 7 and 8. Stanley writes: "The most basic clue to the mystery pervading this entire narrative [John 7 and 8] is provided by the symbolic action that gives this feast its name: the ceremonial erection of little bowers, made with branches of trees, in which every Jew was expected to live during the festival. These shelters were commemorative of the forty years' wandering in the desert when Israel had lived as a nomad in such intimate union with her God. For John this dwelling in tents is a primordial symbol of the Incarnation: 'Thus the Word became a mortal man: he pitched his tent in the midst of us' (John 1:14). It is this insight which presides over the composition of John's narrative which we are considering [John 7-8]. All that happened, all that Jesus said on this occasion has some reference to the Incarnation."
In seeking to describe the Messiah's first coming to His people, John chose the imagery of the Feast of Booths since the feast celebrates the dwelling of God among His people. This raises an interesting question on whether or not John intended to link the birth of Jesus with the Feast of Tabernacles.
[from: God's Festivals in Scripture and History Part II: The Fall Festivals, page 241.]
According to the Companion Bible, Appendix 179:
The word tabernacled here receives beautiful significance from the knowledge that "the Lord of Glory" was "found in fashion as a man", and thus tabernacling in human flesh. And in turn it shows in equally beautiful significance that our Lord was born on the first day of the great Jewish Feast of Tabernacles, viz. the 15th of Tisri, corresponding to September 29 (modern reckoning).
The Circumcision of our Lord took place therefore on the eighth day, the last day of the Feast, the "Great Day of the Feast" of John 7.37 ("Tabernacles" had eight days. The Feast of Unleavened Bread had seven days, and Pentecost one. See Lev. 23).
From The Seven Festivals of the Messiah by Eddie Chumney we read this:
As we have stated earlier in this chapter, the Feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles) is called "the season of our joy" and "the feast of the nations." With this in mind, in Luke 2:10 it is written, "And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings [basar in Hebrew; otherwise known as the gospel] of great joy [Sukkot is called the 'season of our joy'], which shall be to all people [Sukkot is called 'the feast of the nations']." So, we can see from this that the terminology the angel used to announce the birth of Yeshua (Jesus) were themes and messages associated with the Feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles).
Light was also a prominent feature of the Feast of Tabernacles. At the end of the first day of the Feast, the Temple was gloriously illuminated. According to the Mishnah (Succah 5:2), gigantic candelabras stood within the Court of the Women in the temple. Each of the four golden candelabras is said to have been about 75 feet tall. Each candelabra had four branches, and at the top of every branch there was a large bowl. Four young men bearing 10 gallon pitchers of oil would climb ladders to fill the four golden bowls on each candelabra. And then the oil in those bowls was ignited. Picture sixteen beautiful blazes leaping toward the sky from these golden lamps. There was not a courtyard in Jerusalem that was not illuminated by this light (Succah 5:3).
According to Alfred Edersheim (Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, chpt. 8):
...the Court of the Women was brilliantly illuminated.... In connection with this we mark, that the term 'light' was specially applied to the Messiah. In a very interesting passage of the Midrash we are told, that, while commonly windows were made wide within and narrow without, it was the opposite in the Temple of Solomon, because the light issuing from the Sanctuary was to lighten that which was without.
This reminds us of the language of devout old Simeon in regard to the Messiah, as 'a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of His people Israel.'
John 1:6-9 says:
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. He himself was not the light, but he came to testify to the light. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
In these verses John refers to Jesus as "the light"; and as we have also seen, verse 14 says that he "became flesh and tabernacled [literal meaning of the Greek] among us". Since John chapter one is a passage about Jesus' coming, these verses could be references to the Feast of Tabernacles at which time Jesus was born.
Magi from the east
The Scriptures tell us that there were wise men (scholars) who came from the east looking for the birth of the Messiah, saying "we have seen his star in the east". Who were these scholars from the east? Why were they looking for a Jewish Messiah?
Matthew 2:1-6 says:
In the time of King Herod, after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, asking, "Where is the child who has been born king of the Jews? For we observed his star at its rising, and have come to pay him homage. When King Herod heard this, he was frightened, and all Jerusalem with him; and calling together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Messiah was to be born. They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it has been written by the prophet: 'And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who is to shepherd my people Israel.'" [cited from Micah 5:2]
Babylon was known as "the land to the east." At the time of the birth of Jesus, the largest Jewish population was actually in Babylon, not in Palestine! Nearly five hundred years earlier, the entire nation of Judah had been carried away captive into Babylon by King Nebuchadnezzar. Only a small colony of Jews returned to Palestine after sixty-three years of captivity. The greater number of them remained where they had established homes in the land of Babylon.
The Greek for "wise men" is magoi. Daniel was referred to by this same title (Daniel 4:9). The word is somewhat equivalent to the Jewish term "rabbi." It is possible that the wise men from the east were Jewish rabbis who had been anticipating the coming of the Messiah because of Daniel's seventy weeks prophecy [Daniel 9:24]. They had spotted a new star in the sky and took it to be a sign of the coming of the Messiah.
At the very least, even if the wise men were not Jewish, they would have been influenced by Daniel's writings. At an earlier time, Daniel had been the Master of the Magians of Babylon (Daniel 2:48; 4:9; 5:11), so anything Daniel wrote would have been important to even Gentile magoi. Parts of the book of Daniel are even written in Aramaic (the international language of the eastern Gentiles), so that it could be read by them.
The star and the Feast of Tabernacles
There is one time of the year when Jews would typically look at the stars. That time was during the Festival of Tabernacles. As we already said, Jewish believers would build a tabernacle or booth known as a "sukkah" out of green tree branches. They would eat their meals and sleep in this sukkah for eight days. It was customary to leave a hole in the roof of the sukkah so that one could look at the stars. If the magoi were Jewish, then Jewish "wise men" celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles would have noticed the appearance of a new star.
Of course, if the magoi were Gentile, it is still likely that a new star would have been noticed by them rather quickly. The Babylonian magoi excelled at astrology. As a matter of fact, the Babylonians are generally credited with the birth of astrology.
The year of Jesus' birth
Jesus was born while Herod the Great was still living (Matthew 2:1). Wise men appeared in Jerusalem asking about "one who has been born king of the Jews?" Of course, this upset Herod, who had been given the title "King of the Jews" by the Roman Senate. Herod talked to the wise men secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared (Matthew 2:7). The wise men then journeyed to Bethlehem and found Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in a house (Matthew 2:11) and they bowed down and worshiped Jesus.
When the wise men did not return to give Herod a report, "Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the wise men. He was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the wise men" (Matthew 2:16).
This tells us that Jesus may have been born two years before the appearance of the wise men and the death of Herod. Herod died the spring of 4 B.C. (according to the Jewish historian, Josephus). Let's assume that the star appeared at Jesus' birth. Let's also assume that Herod was already close to death when the wise men appeared. It was the custom in ancient Israel to count the years of one's age from the date of conception - in other words, when a child is born he is one year old until his first birthday (this is still a practice in some oriental cultures). Therefore, Herod actually killed the children one year old and under according to the way that age is calculated today. This would mean that Jesus had to have been born in 6 B.C. (if Jesus was one year old) or 5 B.C. (if Jesus was under one year and Herod was just being extra careful).
This date for Jesus' birth fits with other Biblical data such as Jesus being "about thirty years old" when He began his ministry (Luke 3:23). From evidence given to us in John 2:20 about the construction of the temple, we know Jesus' ministry began in A.D. 26. Counting forward from 6 B.C. to A.D. 26 (one year has to be subtracted because there is no year zero) would make Jesus 31 years old when he began his ministry -- that is, about thirty years old. Counting forward from 5 B.C. to A.D. 26 would make Jesus 30 years old when he began his ministry. The birth years of 5 or 6 B.C. also fit with the best date for the crucifixion, that is A.D. 30. Personally I opt for the 5 B.C. date, because I assume the wise men would want to come at once and the time for a journey from Babylon to Jerusalem takes only four months.
When was Jesus born? Nothing is absolutely certain, because we are dealing with implications and assumptions, but a good guess from the Scriptures and history is September 29, 5 B.C. ....."
I'm just glad he came
Merry Christmas to you all! Have a blessed couple of days in our Lord!
In Christ's Love
Diana
Hi All My Brothers and Sisters in Christ,
Have a Blessed Christ centered day tomorrow and remember to pray for all our persecuted ones out there who cannot or may not celebrate any Christian day!
Jim-C
Alpha is a course started by an Evangelical Anglican priest living in the UK. His name is Nicky Gumble and he is spirit filled and not the usual minister filled with man knowledge and not God’s! The concept of Alpha is as you described, to bring any one who is asking questions about Jesus or the bible into a safe place where they can ask questions and get the right answers over a meal and not feel threatened. The leaders should be spirit filled Christians who are trained in the course but also know the Word of God so that they can help lead people to the Cross. But like anything it can get distorted…. This course has been running in SA for quiet sometime now and is not just run in the Anglican Church but is across all denominations.
Yours in Christ
jeri
Lori,
I'm also glad Jesus came.
Wishing everyone a most Merry, and blessed Christmas, this year!!!
Merry Christmas Eve and Day to all!
<><
Maranatha!
Thanks for all the Congrats!! We are very BLESSED indeed!
Wishing everyone a very Merry CHRISTmas and also Wilma, I hope you have a WONDERFUL birthday tomorrow (Christmas Day) as well!! :)
Love Judy
Wilma,
Merry Christmas, and a very Happy Birthday!!!
Love,
Marge
Wilma!!!!!!
Haaaaaaaaaaaaappppppyyyyyy Birthay and a Blessed Christmas.
A Blessed Christmas to all!!!!!
Thank you all for your fellowship at the Cave.
And a special thank you to one special person.
No, it's NOT hyde!
Lori,
That was the best explaination of Jesus Birthday date I've read so far.
There is so much more to be understood looking at things through the "Jewish" lens. Feasts/Traditions,Writings & such.
Merry CHRISTmas everyone!!
Lisa
Yes, I left the "D" out in birthday and who nows what other typos.
Harold, John and ATTY - haven't seen you guys for some time, but warm wishes to you. Drop a line when you can, even if it's anonymous.
Good to hear from you too, Jeri.
I'm getting ready to go and spend time with family.
Lisa, you can switch the lights off when you sign off...or leave them on...
Mac,
It may be another Late Night.
The Origions of our Christmas Tradition
THE HISTORY OF CHRISTMAS PART II -
Last week we looked at the pagan holidays that were celebrated at the end of December. Because of these pagan roots, many Christians believe we should avoid Christmas as ultimately a pagan holiday. Yet, does the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ itself have anything to do with pagans? Or is it truly a Christian holiday that is simply celebrated at the wrong time of year?
The Hebrew Roots:
Jesus birth was foretold centuries prior in the Hebrew Scriptures. In the fullness of time, God sent His Son to redeem mankind. He sent Jesus as a little baby to become God With Us.
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting . -Micah 5:2
And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth . -Isaiah 49:6
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel . -Isaiah 7:14
...When at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this . -Isaiah 9:1-2,6-7
The Christian Roots:
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. - Luke 1:30-35
About 1950 years ago, the well-educated and faithful physician Luke wrote to one Theophilus, detailing the life of Jesus Christ. Luke explained that he had done research on the subject so that Theophilus could know with certainty that the things he had been told about Jesus were true (Luke 1:4). Luke must have spoken with Mary herself, for he tells of things that only she would know.
'But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart,' - Luke 2:19.
Luke tells Theophilus of the birth of Jesus; how he was born in Bethlehem during a time when the entire Roman world was being taxed. Shepherds out in the field were surprised by a host of angels that filled the sky, singing, 'Glory to God in the highest!' and as they were told, went down to find the baby wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger. Those shepherds then told everybody they could find about the incredible things they had seen.
The child grew up and went on to have a short, three-year ministry that ended in his death on a Roman Cross. Yet, the man that was born in Bethlehem rose again from the dead, as witnessed by over 500 men (1 Cor 15:6). And he is still changing the hearts and lives of people living today.
The early Christians are not known to have celebrated Christ's birth, and the actual date of his nativity has been lost in history. The first recorded mention of the December 25 date is in the Calendar of Philocalus (AD 354), which assumed Jesus' birth date to be Friday, December 25, in AD 1. Pope Julius I officially proclaimed December 25 to be the anniversary of Christ's birth in AD 440. Giving December 25th Christian significance has been understood to have been an effort to help the pagan world embrace Christianity and trade in their worship of pagan gods for the One True God. Originally called the Feast of the Nativity, the custom spread to Egypt by AD 432 and to England by the end of the 6th century. By the end of the 8th century, the celebration of Christmas had spread all the way to the Scandinavian countries.
Christmas is celebrated on January 6 in the Orthodox Church, on what is also called Epiphany or Three Kings Day, the day that celebrates the arrival of the wise men who gave the Christ child their gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Today
Christmas did largely win out over the pagan holidays, but was still celebrated with rowdy festivities and practical jokes - more like Mardi Gras than anything resembling the character of Christ. Puritans in England outlawed Christmas for years, and the holiday was not popular in early America. In fact, Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday in the United States until June 26, 1870.
The holiday then underwent a conversion. Christmas was 'reinvented' into the more moderate holiday we know today. Washington Irving and Charles Dickens both wrote tales that presented Christmas as a holiday of caring for the poor and bringing families together. As the angels sang above the shepherds that first night, Christmas was about 'peace on earth, good will toward men.'
Conclusion:
The Season is still a mixture of traditions pulled from a multitude of sources. While many of them have little to do with Jesus, most are morally neutral activities. However, even while Santa Claus ho ho ho's down Main St. on a fire truck, and Hershey makes a killing on aluminum-wrapped chocolate bells, the reality of Christ's birth does break through. Nativity scenes in downtown squares and in front of churches bring to mind the great gift of God - the King of kings lying in a manger, attended by shepherds. Christmas carols that cry 'The Lord is come' and 'Come let us adore him' are sung from door to door, reminding us all of what God has done.
It is a time of year when people can speak more freely of Jesus the Savior, and when even the faithless are willing to go to a Christmas Eve church service. It is truly a precious slot of time God has given us during which to spread the Good News of His Son. Glory to God in the highest!
May your celebration of the birth of Christ honor Him who gave Himself to us as the ultimate sacrifice of love. May everything we do reflect the love and compassion of our Savior, and bring glory to His name.
A Christmas Greeting
The blessed and joyous time of Christmas is here again. So, I'll just take the opportunity to thank all of our viewing and listening family for allowing us into your homes. I don't take that for granted. I am honestly grateful to you for allowing us to serve you in that way.
As I look out the windows of my home in Montana it sure is "beginning to look a lot like Christmas." We have about a foot of snow and it's been below zero for about ten days. Two of my dogs are under my desk with their heads resting on my feet--looking like those big fuzzy slippers that little kids sometimes wear.
Christmas is, of course, the best time to recall that Jesus, the Son of God, in fact was born in a poor stable or cave on a cold night- "for us men, and for our salvation." Amidst the escalating uncertainty and chaos of the modern world we must sit still for a moment and remember what really matters.
In recent years major corporations have been vaporized in the twinkling of an eye. It's a sign of the times, but recall that what really matters is that it was the twinkling of a star that led shepherds and wise men to the One who is the Light of the world.
In recent years the biggest accounting firm in the world ceased to be over night. They don't account for anything today, but it honestly doesn't matter. What really matters is that on a cold night two millennia ago the God who loves us was born in Bethlehem and laid in a manger by the Mother who loves Him.
In recent years the unthinkable has happened--major banks and financial institutions have ceased to be. That doesn't matter either because the truly unthinkable happened on the first Christmas Eve long ago when the God who always was and will never cease to be came to show us the depth and breadth of His love.
In recent years I have been accused of being a "prophet of doom, and a pessimist." I can understand this criticism, but it really isn't true. I am a realist, and as a priest and Catholic/Christian of necessity must share in the prophetic dimension of Christ. The United States, and the entire world for the most part, is in many ways precipitating its own demise. That matters, and we must do all we can to "fight the good fight," but what truly matters is the state of your soul and mine because in the end that will determine how we live forever, and compared to that nothing else really matters.
Things may go from bad to worse. It may well go from uncomfortable to dangerous to live your Catholic/Christian faith in a world unraveling rapidly due to one bad moral choice after the other. Remember that it will not be the first time if Christians are persecuted, even imprisoned and executed. "The blood of martyrs is the seed of Christians." The Western world is too fat and lazy, in the secular order and even in the religious. Perhaps a jolly good persecution may be what it takes for people to decide to live their faith, rather than go along with what they know to be a sick society.
In any event, don't let it get you down. Whatever happens, stay close to Jesus and Mary. Remember that our God is not against you. He is for you, and He will be with you through all of the ups and downs of life. He will be with you in sickness and in health; in good times and in bad; and when death comes knocking at your door He will be there to comfort you and lead you safely home. Having fought the good fight and run the race to the finish line, you will surely hear those beautiful words:
"WELL DONE MY GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT! NOW AT LAST ENTER INTO THE JOY OF YOUR MASTER'S HOUSE."
A most blessed and merry Christmas and a holy, happy, and healthy New Year to each and all of you!
Fr. John Corapi
(That delete was me)...My son made it on a plane in Portland and will be joining us in LA on Christmas morning at 12:45am.
Congratulations Judy! My daughter is due June 26th and we are very excited.
Happy Birthday Wilma!
Christmas blessings All!
Kathy
Visiting my Dad and his wonderful wife this Christmas. We're in Vallejo, CA today and tomorrow and then down to San Jose on the 26th.
Just want to say Merry Christmas to all! God gave us all the best Christmas gift ever when He sent His Son to save us! Thank you Abba Father for giving us your son (in the spirit of Keith Green's song of course).
Shoot. It's so late that I just realized today is already tomorrow. How time flies!
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.
Happy Birthday Jesus..
Happy Birthday Wilma.
In His name..
Maranatha... Mike
Merry Christmas everyone!!!
Happy Birthday, Wilma!
Merry Christmas to all my cave dwelling friends. I hope this finds you well, happy and enjoying your families.
FYI-(I knew someone was going to try and pull a fast one.)
Calif. Attorney General Turns Tables
on Prop. 8 Supporters
Sacramento, CA – In a stunning move, California Attorney General Jerry Brown filed a brief late Friday that offers the California Supreme Court an entirely new theory for striking down Prop. 8.
Jerry Brown had originally pledged to defend Prop. 8 in accordance with his constitutional duty. However, his 111-page brief is asking the court to strike down the measure for reasons not even suggested by gay activists who filed suit. In essence, Brown argues that the state constitution’s general guarantee of "the inalienable right of liberty" supersedes all other aspects of the state constitution, including Prop. 8.
In a revealing passage, Brown's brief states, "While Respondent [the Attorney General] does not suggest that the Framers contemplated that liberty interests included a right to marry that extended to same-sex couples, the scope of liberty interests evolves over time as determined by the Supreme Court." At the same time, Brown agreed with Prop. 8 supporters that the arguments actually made by the plaintiffs—that Prop. 8 is a "revision" of the state constitution and violates the “separation of powers” doctrine—have no basis in case law.
"Astounding," commented Brad Dacus, president of Pacific Justice Institute. "Just when you hope Attorney General Brown might even half-heartedly fulfill his constitutional duty to defend Prop. 8, he judo-flips the voters. His brief actually calls those who voted for Prop. 8 the 'tyranny of the majority.' With the state's chief law enforcement officer becoming a law unto himself, I believe we have a constitutional crisis in our state."
PJI was one of the first to file briefs opposing efforts to stop enforcement of Prop. 8, and PJI is currently drafting an amicus brief on the merits of the case which will be filed with the court in mid-January.
PJI staff attorney Karen Milam, who directs the Southern California office, noted, "There is good reason why Jerry Brown’s argument was never raised by the parties filing suit against Prop. 8: it's outlandish and has no basis in the law. The people of California deserve better."
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, WILMA!!!!!
FROM YOUR FAVORITE DANCE STUDENT...
h ehe hehe hehehhhehehehe
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, WILMA!
Congratulations on your grandchildren to be, Judy and Kathy!
How wonderful! Each birth is such a miracle!
Rick Warren: "Annoyed" with Critics
Serving Two Masters Not Working
Renewed Syria Sees Better Ties With Israel
Olmert Delivers 'Last Minute' Warning to Gaza
Israel set for Gaza invasion after rocket barrage
Livni Heads to Egypt to renew Gaza ceasefire, as Rockets Continue to Fall
Cairo fears domestic Islamist fallout if Israel hits Gaza hard
Katyushas Found in S. Lebanon Ready to Launch at Israel
U.S. tells Israel: Don't forsake Lebanon for peace with Syria
Russia selling missiles to Syria, Egypt
Olmert Says Time Is Ripe For Syrian Peace Talks, Barak Adds Israel Could Take Syria Out If Needed
Barak Warns If Iran Goes Nuclear The US Will Become A Target
Israeli Defense Developers to Supply Turkish Air Force
Op. Piece: How did Assad manage to gain international respect?
Hamas's Denial on Islamic Law is a Lie
Hatzofeh, symbol of religious Zionism, closes after 71 years
After 61 years, pilot who defied law to help Israel's birth receives pardon
Ukrainian Interior to allow people buying traumatic weapons
Pakistan moves troops to Indian border
China considers building aircraft carrier
GCC suspends EU free-trade talks
Mac,
Thanks for posting the Rick Warren article. I read it, and it explained a lot to me, about the "whys" of many Christians voting for Obama. I "get it" now. Or, as close to it, as I'll probably get, at least.
Everyone should take a few min., and really read it. Wow! Is about all I can say :(
Is this the one, Nate?
Sign the Academic Freedom Petition
Joel has a new post. (Did someone say that already?)
Thanks for that, Anne. I've linked it on my blog.
BREAKING NEWS: ISRAEL HITS BACK! pray
Fox: Israel Launches Unprecedented Series of Strikes on Gaza
Breitbart: Israeli strikes hit Gaza with attacks on compounds
Haaretz: At least 140 dead, over 200 hurt in IAF Gaza strikes
Chicago Tribune: Hamas says Israeli air strikes targeting its compounds throughout Gaza Strip, 120 dead
Al Bawaba: Gaza Strip: Over 140 dead and 200 wounded in Israeli air strikes
AP: Israel launches air strikes on Gaza, 120 dead
Reuters Video:
KUNA: 140 people killed in Israel''s wide scale strikes on Gaza -- official
Ynet: At least 120 killed in Gaza attack
Shalom, all! I'd like to get your input on this story:
Church to out ex-member's 'sexually immoral relationship' She quit after members confronted her; she needs to be disciplined, pastor says.
Hancock, a Clay County social worker and lieutenant colonel in the Army Reserves, joined the conservative Christian church at 10938 Hood Road S. a year ago as her three-year-long divorce proceedings were nearing an end. Her 18-year-old daughter and 20-year-old son also joined.
Just before the divorce was finalized a few months ago, she began dating a man and confided to a woman at church who she went to for "guidance, assistance and counsel." But that woman told church officials, Hancock said.
...snip...
"Our love for you compels us to pursue that which is best for you," the letter starts. Stating she is "involved in a sexually immoral relationship with a man who is not your husband," it adds that such behavior can be repented and forgiven by God.
But because Hancock rebuffed efforts by church elders to resolve the issue, the letters states, "you leave us with no other choice but to carry out the commands of the Lord Jesus Christ" - namely "tell it to the church" - on Jan. 4.
Frankly, I am shocked and horrified at the action by this pastor. For one thing, I cannot find in scripture where one's sins are to be announced to the entire congregation. James 5:16 simply says, "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful." In the early church it was different, because the majority of sins were public: apostasy, for example. These sins affected the entire community, and so were dealt with in a public manner. (The communities were much smaller then, too, and anyone who has lived in a small town knows how hard it is to keep a secret.)
Here, though, it looks like this was NOT a public sin (one that the community would not be aware of). The woman apparently assumed her confidant would keep the information in confidence, which she did not do.
I suppose my horror at this comes from the Catholic view of confession: the person you confess your sins to is to keep those sins secret until death (aka, the secrecy of the Confessional). This includes keeping these confessions secret regardless of the torture used to get you to reveal them (and yes, I can name a number of priests who died under torture for failing to reveal what was said to them in Confession.)
So I'm looking for YOUR opinions about this matter: What Say You?
<><
My brethren, if any one be found at fault, you who are spiritual, restore him in a spirit of meekness; and be careful lest you also be tempted. Gal 6:1
Public humiliation isn't love and doesn't demonstrate spiritual maturity.
I can only imagine the scene in the Bible where the town is showing up to stone the woman caught in immorality herself. Jesus stands there and after writing something on the ground, tells the crowd, let him who is without sin, cast the first stone. He is the only one present without sin and doesn't cast the stone. That is our example.
If she turns back to the sin, it's only our responsibility to confront her quietly, in a spirit of meekness. This woman needed help, it's a shame she didn't get it from her church.
Jib, Shalom! I liked your comment, "Good for the Pope!" It took me some time to find it again, but I found a blog entry on the Telegraph.co.uk web site on the same speech. It's titled, Pope revealed to be Catholic, shock horror. To quote from the blog:
Benedict XVI stands accused today of ecclesiastical gay-bashing. When I was woken up very early this morning by a radio station looking for a quote, I was given the impression that he'd given a speech saying homosexuals were as big a threat to the planet as climate change.
That would have been an own goal, I admit. But look at the text of the Pope's speech to the Curia and he doesn't even come close to saying that. The point Benedict is making is that God's plan for creation encompasses both stewardship of the planet and the expression of human sexual relations within (and only within) marriage.
<><
Campsmore, I think that "spirit of meekness" is what the woman was looking for (and didn't find) in her confidant.
<><
A friend of mine had a situation recently that was also a breech of trust.
Person A finds out that Person B's abusive ex-husband is engaged to be married to a "sweet" girl "C" at A's church.
A and B go to different churches.
"A" decides with much prayer to consult counseling at her own church where "C" also attends.
The counselor goes to another woman in the church, who just happens to be the person, who introduced them. (it gets worse)
The introducer, goes to the mother of the abusive ex, (turns out they're old friends), who in turn, calls the abusive ex.
The ex, infuriated, begins to call and intimidate Person B.
This is now involving two churches, and several people, all of whom are pointing fingers at Person A (concerned), and Person B, the last victim.
Phew! The wedding is still on target. No one has learned a thing. I'm friends with all involved, except C, but cannot say anything, due to threats of defamation.
All I can do at this point is pray for C, B and A.
What was shocking in all this is that I am very familiar with the second counselor, whom I thought would have made a more Godly response. This was an eye opener for me.
The packaging doesn't always reveal the contents.
AL Bawaba: Arab FMs to hold emergency meeting over Gaza slaughter
KUNA: Solana calls for immediate ceasefire
China View: Jordon condemns Israeli strike on Gaza
VOA: Palestinians: Israeli Airstrikes Kill at Least 155 in Gaza
Jerusalem Post: Hamas: "Over 170 killed as Israel strikes police compounds"
This must be what the pastor was referring to (though it was handled badly all around)
Matthew 15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. "
Whoops, that was Matthew 18 starting with the 15th verse.
Interestingly, that passage is followed immediately with
Matt 18:18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed [6] in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.
The beginning of the scripture begins with... “If your brother sins against you"
The sin committed was between the woman and God.
Pastors will be held accountable one day.
Hi, just checking in quickly to find what looks like a great discussion...I'll be back to check it all out asap.
In the meantime I see Lori already posted about the Israeli strikes in Gaza.
<><
Jim C,
That situation was certainly a breach of trust & have never seen this done. If the pastor knows of someone having a problem w/a particular sin/issue he will include a "general" instruction for it in the sermon. Not publically pointing a finger but rather whomever it's intended for will hopefully feel convicted & have the tools to move ahead & get right w/God as well as others who may be in a similar situation.
But to stand on a platform & publically humiliate the person re: their personal sin in such a way would forever damage their reputation which we know from scripture is wrong.
I had read that article a while back and I agree that it was badly handled HOWEVER
1-she was in sin and for all we know the complaint did start with the one wronged
2-she is STILL in sin and is DEFIANT about her sin and has apparently found a church to go to that doesn't care that she is in sexual sin and that her relationship with God is suffering.
3-if the sin is common knowledge in the church what should a church's response be in view of the youth in the church. if we teach our youth that sex is only appropriate within marriage and that divorce by and large is condemned in the Bible and then someone who is active within the church continuously and unrepentantly commits that sin and nothing is said I think the wrong message is sent.
4-the let he who is without sin thing is imo misapplied frequently as is judge not lest ye be judged. Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians a rather stinging rebuke to the church about someone who was in sexual sin and the fact that they as a church had turned a blind eye to it and were allowing that person to continue in full fellowship in the church. Christ was making a specific point to the Jewish leaders in the first example about the fact that He was the Messiah and entitled to forgive sin (I've been reading on Messianic Christology sorry)
5-we have no idea how much counseling she actually received and of what quality it was.
6- I find it VERY interesting that she is so upset about it. Surely her kids are well aware of what is going on. Interesting that she doesn't want her private sin to be made public in the light of day. One has to wonder why? Because she might feel guilt and shame and a sense of wrongdoing? Because deep in her heart she knows what she is doing is wrong but doesn't want to give it up? It's a lot more difficult to rationalize sin if others are aware of it.
7-I think they way it should have been handled depends on who lodged the complaint for starters. if the person who was sinned against lodged the complaint then the church should be commended rather than condemned for what they have done although I do think it should have stopped when she left the church.
8-if this was addressing something that was common knowledge I think the Pastor should have approached her with one of the senior elders about her sin and counseled her. If she refused to repent of the sin she should have been stripped by the elders of any responsibilities, such as teaching, committees etc within the church with a program for restoration given at that time. I think they should have refused to serve communion to her as well.
With her leaving the church I think however it should have stopped there regardless of who lodged the complaint or how it came about.
interestingly enough this has come up at our church just recently-again. one of the other docs in town was a serial adulterer and his wife was a member of the session at the time. She brought him before the church after years of infidelity and he was stripped of his responsibilities within the church and given a plan of restoration. they followed up with him in a years time-he chose to stop coming to the church btw (although that was not part of the plan and feels that the church was not forgiving enough and compassionate enough, feels the whole thing was just a witch hunt by his ex because she was a member of the session) and as he had done nothing with the restoration plan nothing happened. he was very bitter while recounting the whole incident and seemed to both my husband and I to be still defiant. He has confessed his sin publicly in class but still refuses to do anything with the restoration plan as nearly as we can tell, is living with his girl friend although they are recently engaged and EXPECTS the church to welcome him back on his terms. which some appear to be ready to do. he is a recovering alcoholic as well so knows the drill.
the funny thing is the whole restoration thing likely isn't much different than what he likely had to go through to get his medical license and dea unrestricted so I'm not entirely sure what his beef is.
if I sound a little harsh-I've been guilty of sexual sin in the past so I truly know how easy it is to fall in this area. It is incredibly easy to fall into sexual sin and you can find all sorts of ways to rationalize what you are doing. With our society saying that sex outside of marriage is ok and with people trying to redefine Biblical Christianity in terms of out culture it adds to the burden of sin.
Further and be honest with yourself, if this woman were engaged in a lesbian relationship would your reaction be any different to what the church has done be any different than it is now.
interesting that the word humiliated has come up several times in discussing this particular issue.
Lori,
sorry I view the whole situation you are aware of differently. Abusers can and do escalate their abuse to the point of killing someone. If you had personal knowledge that someone was very abusive, saw someone else get involved with that person and that person ended up dead-how would you feel. Domestic violence can and frequently is a matter of life and death. all states have laws about child abuse and a fair number have laws on elder abuse. The state of Ohio also has rather stringent laws on domestic violence. If someone makes a domestic violence complaint the state can proceed with charges, trial etc even if the victim withdraws the complaint.
I guess I should've mentioned, the past victim and I are close friends as well as person A. She asked me not to say anything more. The fiance was made aware of the accusations, but was told at that time that the ex-wife and I are lunatics and that person. The way I look at it now, is that since the fiance has heard the allegations, it's up to her to investigate and seek out the truth.
Either way, both churches are aware of the accusations. They will most likely keep their eyes open for signs of abuse, regardless of their initial response. At least that's how I'm praying. It's out of my hands. But the photograph of past abuse isn't, which I had blown up and keep it safe and sound, in case I must ever testify.
Israel says Gaza incursion to go on
All police HQs in Gaza destroyed
Turkey Condemns Casualties In Israeli Attack On Gaza
Martin condemns Gaza attacks
Reaction in quotes: Gaza bombing
UN, Jordan, EU, Britian. Ireland, Syria, Russia, Arab league incl. Egypt, Vatican, Turkey, India:
"One question, Where were you all when Hamas launched over 6,000 missles in Israel over the last few years?"
1Cr 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.
1Cr 5:2 And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?
1Cr 5:3 Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present.
1Cr 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present,
1Cr 5:5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature [fn] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.
1Cr 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough?
1Cr 5:7 Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast-as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.
1Cr 5:8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.
1Cr 5:9 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-
1Cr 5:10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
1Cr 5:12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
1Cr 5:13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
Jim C.,
I agree with Lori and JIB.
An interesting side note, to Jesus writting on the ground. (the woman caught in the act of adultery)
I was listening to Jospeh Prince a few weeks ago. And he mentioned that the area where Jesus wrote on the ground happened around the Temple. And that area is almost all granite. Whether or not Jesus wrote in the granite, was somewhat interesting. But the sermon was fantastic, comparing Moses/Ten Commandments, and Jesus coming to fullfill the Law, and the Prophets.
Also, I remember a few years ago, that Dr. Fulton Buntain (brother of India's Missionary-the late Mark Buntain) said, that if he were younger (he's since Retired) he would pioneer an Independent Church, complete with Confessional! Because it is so healthy, to confess to another person. And to someone who wouldn't betray your trust.
No wonder people don't always receive healing attending church. Lack of trust, for the most part, IMHO. So, instid of the church becoming a place of healing, it sometimes becomes a house of hurt/pain.
Lori is right. Pastors/Leaders will all have to give an account oneday, as will the rest of the body of Christ.
It was an unfortunate set of circumstances. To say the least.
The good news around here, is that the temps. have warmed up, and the snow/ice is melting. YEAH!
It's okay to come home now, Kathy, LOL!
Marge, I heard someone say recently that wouldn't it be interesting if Jesus was writing names of prostitutes that some of the accusers had been with just before that event?
Wow! That would make them want to disperse right away, well, and the fact that writing on granite with your finger would get some attention! lol
New post is up.
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